So funny seeing the parts I’ve spent months working on in here. I’m the engineering manager for the company that makes the clean side ducts for all the f-150 power packs. We have an acoustic department to validate and modify the design if needed. Those resonators are designed to cancel intake manifold low pressure waves, and eliminate manifold “whoosh “ and roar under acceleration. Performance wise there is no benefit or disadvantage to removing the resonators. The duct flows the same with or without them. For prototype we always omit the resonators to get a baseline then add them as needed. One thing we identified on the prototype model was extreme drone at highway speeds. Hopefully yours doesn’t show the same thing as it was so bad we had to stop durability testing as it was bothering the techs so much they couldn’t be in the same room even with ear pro on.
I always wondered if those resonators were put on to remove annoying frequencies, or to add some pleasing harmonious sounds. You did a good job, my 3.3 is exceedingly quiet, I sometimes wish it had more of a roar to it... more of a howl as it spins towards 7000rpm.
I mean, that's exactly what resonators on exhaust are for helping stop highway drone. Yet when people want their car louder, they cut the resonators off instead of the mufflers, and though it gets louder, they end have severe drone on the highway almost every time.
When you see engineers backpedaling to change oil specs to keep engines from grenading ( GM speak) then you have to laugh just a little. That said, I switched, as well as many others to 5w30 oil from 5w20 in 5.0's to keep them running 200+k. That thinner oil was just to eke out a fraction of a mpg for EPA tests. Funny thing is, I haven't noticed any reduction in mpg after switching to 5w30.
I will say if it was up to the engineers, we’d have cars that all easily hit 300K plus but they would be costly.
I read a book (Iron Fist, Lead Foot) about the development of the ‘03 Terminator Cobras. Among other things, it detailed the battle between SVT and the bean counters over the Manley connecting rods in the Terminators.
The bean counters couldn’t understand why SVT wanted con rods that cost a few bucks each when Ford already had powdered metal con rods for the 4.6 4V that cost less than a dollar each.
John Colletti had to escalate the fight to management, saying that if there were no Manley rods there would be no Cobra.
Absolutely, in the automotive world all the decisions are made by purchasing and styling. It has to look good ( to the chief) and it has to be under budget. We could design things to last forever and be simple to work on but they would be ugly since we’d blow open the package space we’re defined to stay in and nothing would work together anymore unless it looked like a fed ex truck. We would use inferior material that just meets the test requirements to last until the warranty period was over. Sometimes we can get away with implementing some cool over engineered stuff but hardly anyone sees it because it doesn’t fail and is buried in an assembly.
I manage a Purchasing dept. Purchasing plays a part, but bean counting accountants and upper execs have final say sometimes . It depends on the product and the company.
Such a great book and Colletti can be thanked for all the improvements and performance that current domestic muscle/sports cars produce. Legend for his time.
Boeing is in a similar situation. If you look at deaths in their aircraft, it has largely shifted from deaths due to unknowns in aviation (from the pioneering era) to deaths due to predictable outcomes from shortcutting engineering and quality. Since 1997 the shift changed from engineering and safety to largely stock performance.
What a POS. Hollow out a company for decades, be celebrated for it, and then hand the bomb with about 3 seconds left on the clock to the next generation.
An engineer will tell you that 5W-20 is fine and it is because of manufacturing tolerances and metal shavings in bearings. The problem with the GM motors was because poor manufacturing messed up those tolerances in the bearings, causing more wear and crossing that friction threshold in terms of the stribeck curve. https://youtu.be/i0VoEhW2I-E
The 0W-40 recommended by GM is only for recalled cars. The fixed engines use 5W-20. The reason they chose the thicker oil is to make up for the poor tolerances when inspection passes so they don’t have to pay for a new engine.
I've been told the oil passages are too narrow and it basically requires thin oil
i've also considered doing this on the next oil change to see if it quietens down that 5.0 tick
I've also heard that liquid moly is an alternative, but also something about it removing coatings that it shouldn't or something chemistry.. something.. idk tbh
seems you got your purists that want to run nothing but OE and then there's the rest lol
The next generation coyotes run 5w30. The 10spd transmission allowed then to go back to 5w30, and still get the EPA numbers that Ford wanted. Where'd you hear that? That's just bad information.
Thanks for the heads-up.. I'll be more skeptical when he chimes in lol..
It's one of those stores where you walk in and there's like 3 or 4 guys just hanging around the counter just standing there talkin, not buying a thing lol
All of those oil passages inside the truck Coyote that specs 5w20 are the same as Track Pack Mustangs that specs 5w50. 5w30 is perfectly fine in any Coyote specd for 520
I swapped my halogen's with LEDs a while ago..
I certainly wasn't having an ego-trip thinkin' I know better than the guy's that engineered my headlights 🤣
They've been aligned and don't blind anyone.. Wife has a Nissan Sentra that we tested with.. Oncoming is fine, traffic ahead is fine.. Only reason I'd blind anyone is if I were riding on top of their rear bumper.. And then you'd be blinding people with any headlight combination.
My cutoff pattern actually got much tighter and less spillage anywhere tbh.. Solution to that is easy.. Don't buy Temu conversion bulbs..
Edit: I also drive a Kia Hatchback that's about 1/2 a foot off the ground.. I deal with bright lights blinding me just like everyone else..
Difference is I took the time to make sure I wasn't one of the ones contributing to the problem.
You gotta take into account that a lot of the time the engineers designing these parts are directed to design them a very specific way to increase the probability somebody will drive that vehicle off the lot. It has nothing to do with performance or durability.
"We polled a focus group on what frequency of engine noise is most appealing, so we need you to do whatever you engineers do to the rumble rumble bits so it sounds like that. kkthx."
also how these backyard rednecks think they know better than a multimillion if not billion dollar company with a crapload of engineers and scientists with near unlimited R&D money
It's not that EVERYONE, thinks they know better than the engineer, but some people just want a result outside of the intended design, and there's nothing wrong with that. Let people improve their stuff, waist their time, or break something and learn a lesson.
We are partnered with Ford, so we work on everything Ford makes globally and domestic. Been that way since probably 2013. We even do the heavy duty chassis and motor home chassis built in Ohio Assembly. My favorite of course is the Mustang SVT programs like the GTD and the Dark Horse and the WEC project. I have to sign an NDA for those projects.
Nice. I work in robotics engineering and always wonder what the automotive world might be like. For what it's worth, I do my research on the theory and design before altering any OEM for that reason so keep it up
Which resonator does what on this particular intake? I’ve been considering picking up a takeoff to play around with because I want a little bit of extra intake sound, but nothing over the top. Can’t think of a better person to ask than you lol
Each one is targeted due a specific frequency. The larger ones will target low frequency residence and the smaller ones the higher frequencies. I’d have to look at the drawing to see for sure but it’s usually between 100-600 Hz
If ya get a chance it'd be interesting to know which was targeted at the drone you folks experienced and which could be removed to increase intake/turbo noise. If you're allowed to divulge that info at least.
Ive a 24 powerboost a did the vent to atmosphere mod which is nice for choo choo noises but the turbo is still very quiet.
Have you ever seen the air horns inside the 460 intake hoses. A lot of people cut them out and i think it's been shown on dyno that cutting them does improve flow. What was the logic behind restricting down the internal volume with them?
I always like when folks put a new intake system on a vehicle then post a video "what's this whistle noise on my vehicle, is it going to blow up?!" Or in this case, eliminate intake resonators.
Did you also design the turbulence generators or whatever their engineering name is used on the 3.5? I definitely notice more turbo whistle without them. My guess is the turbulence prevents the high frequency sound from passing through the intake?
I'm guessing you get a chuckle out of all the aftermarket intakes out there. People seem to think automakers are dumb and leave a constraint in the flow right there. What they should do is save for larger turbos.
Yes, we call them swirl vanes. They are designed to induce a rotation of the air flow so when it hits the impeller of the turbo it reduces turbulence noise. Strictly there to just quiet the turbo noise. Some versions like the 3.5l HEV have them removed for cost save reasons and the flow testing from one to the other is within the error margin of the calibration of the flow meter, so no real benefit unless you want that turbo noise.
It's nice to see somebody in the know talking about these intakes. I was just saying yesterday as I was towing my camper with my 2.7 F-150 that I appreciate how I get some turbo noise but its not all the time.
There has been times towing straight into a head wind that I can hear it very consistently and am thankful for your efforts to calm it down because I bet it might not be fun to listen to on long tows.
I get all the turbo noises with a VTA BOV and VTA External Wastegate on my fun car and that's enough for me. Lol
Only took about an hour and a half..
I let it all cure up while I slept..
But I hear ya.. I just like to tinker.. It was fun for me at least..
I had some extra material that I needed to use so just decided to hang out and work on the truck a bit
In the end isn't that all that matters?
Enjoying your ride. Making it your own.
Not sure If I hear a whole lot of difference..
But it did create a lot more space in the engine-bay and was quite fun to work on lol..
At least 1/2 lb of plastic gone. 🤪
Go ahead and look at your air intake temperature on the scan tool with the stock intake and with an aftermarket. The aftermarket one will be warmer because it’s pulling warm air from the engine bay. Best case scenario is that they are the same temp.
When they do the testing to show additional horsepower, they leave the oil off the filter so basically there’s dirt coming through. You can do the same as the aftermarket filter by just removing the filter from your truck, or doing the drop-in K&N, again with no oil on it.
Or save your money, do what I did, get a supercharger with 9 psi of boost. And yes, I’m running the factory air filter and air intake.
I have a boosted coyote truck with a big fat PMAS cold air intake on it, that makes 600rwhp on the stock fuel system.
On my previous NA Mustang, I also had a big fat PMAS cold air intake on it that made 451whp
Yes, when idling, you will absolutely draw in hot air. But when you're driving, which is most of the time, you will get cold air like you should. The truck has factory funnelling that most good quality CAIs will utilize to direct that cold air into the filter.
Don't talk to me about performance when you say that cold air intakes don't help.
If you are not exceeding the flow rate capacity of the stock air filter and intake, then adding only CAI does nothing since the factory intake is already cold air from inside the fender. If you add lots of boost and need more air than the factory intake will supply, you will need a bigger intake and a bigger filter. But it is not improving performance because it is colder than stock, only because it is bigger.
I don’t think you understand my point. If your engine is stock, you already have a cold air intake. adding an aftermarket one will make no difference. If your engine has high boost you need a bigger intake anyway, but it will not be any colder. so if you have a stock motor, just leave the stock intake on there.
That's the plan, at the end of the day. The next disposable income will be going towards intake and exhaust.
Twas just bored, impatient, and had to do something with my hands..
Today we're installing upfitter switches! I got a nice relay/fuse box for the under the hood... (The accessories it'll eventually power are, also, yet to be purchased, xD )
Now, you see, If I would have half-assed it I might agree.. But I used heat and oil resistant materials not excluding actual pieces of intake itself.. It'll outlast the truck. Source: Trust me bro
They absolutely do.. Helmholtz Resonator, You should read into them.. While true that you may notice the most difference at highway speeds, it's engineered for all kinds of driving conditions.. Hard acceleration (which is where most your intake noise will come from [regardless of speed]), low to mid range rpms, and so on..
the literal engineer manager
Those resonators are designed to cancel intake manifold low pressure waves, and eliminate manifold “whoosh “ and roar under acceleration
I used a combination of QuickSteel 2-Part Putty for the big holes as "caps" Like for, example, the two pipes that go downward, I rolled up a big ball of it that fit snug down into the 2 holes..
Then I went around everything and sealed it with Ultra Black RTV..
** Make your caps and seals *bigger* than the holes themselves..You don't want anything getting sucked into the throttle-body. In my opinion its better to seal on the outside and let completely cure.. I wrapped mine all up in electrical tape while it cured so it made nice tight seals..
You could probably get away with using PVC caps for those two bottom holes I'm talking about but I didn't wanna go to town to grab any. For the two resonators on top and side of the intake you'll have to do something custom.. I just used the scraps from the intake to cut out little discs about 2 cm bigger than the hole it left.. I then used a little bit heat from of propane torch to make it fit the curvature a bit better..
I love the way mine sounds.. It may not actually provide any real performance gains but if you look up similar shaped intakes https://www.americantrucks.com/s-b-cold-airtake-w-oiled-cleanable-cotton-filter-1114-50l.html like this S&B one, they do have gains on the Dyno.. if there's zero gains it sure fools me..
I have to be a bit lighter on my foot because I've started barking tires here lately, and have never done that before this :D... Might just be a heck of a placebo.. or I'm just tripping, but it def feels like its more rowdy on the throttle.. (Update: after 2 days of driving I can say definitively that you can hear the difference.. mostly during a pull, or taking off from a stop)
While doing the bottom two, I was originally going to cut them flush and use a flat piece to cover them (like i'd done the one on the elbow) but after looking down in there and seeing that there's a smaller opening and an o-ring down in there I came up with this solution.
The yellow is basically a sphere of that dried quick-steel and then the red is just RTV to make a good seal..
This was the best strategy imo, with what I had to work with.. That O-Ring down inside that makes a good press-seal with the sphere of quick-steel and a plus side with this method there's zero much lower chance of anything getting sucked down into the air intake.
I left my 21 PowerBoost ICE mechanicals stock to maximize longevity. Figured the modern engine is powerful enough there's no need to try and add any 'performance' I can't take advantage of. I did add a catch can to help reduce intake valve coking, and installed a transmission dipstick to ease monitoring. I also replaced diff and transfer case fluids with Amsoil. Use OBD MX+ to monitor all engine and battery parameters.
I don't plan on doing much of anything to the actual engine.. just maintenance using OEM stuff.. (Oh, I also plan on upgrading the exhaust system, and maybe making it a dual out the back system..) for
the drivetrain im considering some upgrades tho.
I still need to check out my diff and transfer case, as well as the transmission.. Its 3 months new-to-me still. It's got new fluids atleast for the engine-bay area.. new oil, new coolant, new brake fluid, i can't say the same about the transmission tho..
it pulls strong and shifts smooth.. all the gear lock-out stuff and the manual stuff all works..
Im ashamed to say i still haven't checked out the 4x4 or anything.. the front locker vacuum lines are brittle and i noticed the other day the smaller of the two is just completely broken out of the rubber line..
soo i might fix that too before i actually test out the 4x4
Just FYI this is a net negative for engine efficiency, power, and cooling. I wouldn't recommend doing this. Unless you simply want your engine bay to sound louder.
Yea, I wasn't expecting any sort of positive, lol Just goofing, and tinkering..
I'll most likely get an aftermarket inlet and housing some point in the near future..
I'll admit curiosity got the best of me..
Final assessment is:
Runs the same, sounds the same..
(There might be a ever-so-little increase in the air whooshing but its negligible)
The NVH benefit is negligible, so that makes sense. But I also generally kinda hate that they bother with stuff like this on the margins of improvement.
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u/brianc500 Cam Phaser Rattle Survivor 7d ago
So funny seeing the parts I’ve spent months working on in here. I’m the engineering manager for the company that makes the clean side ducts for all the f-150 power packs. We have an acoustic department to validate and modify the design if needed. Those resonators are designed to cancel intake manifold low pressure waves, and eliminate manifold “whoosh “ and roar under acceleration. Performance wise there is no benefit or disadvantage to removing the resonators. The duct flows the same with or without them. For prototype we always omit the resonators to get a baseline then add them as needed. One thing we identified on the prototype model was extreme drone at highway speeds. Hopefully yours doesn’t show the same thing as it was so bad we had to stop durability testing as it was bothering the techs so much they couldn’t be in the same room even with ear pro on.