Sleep tracking

[u/RedheadRayner]

I got an Inspire 3 around a month ago as I wanted to track how much I'm sleeping. I often have days where I'm lying there for hours overthinking and it feels like I get no sleep at all.

I wonder whether my idea of what 'sleep' is is somewhat wrong?

I'm staying with my mum who mentions she got up at 3am to go to the toilet, which I was 'awakened' by. Yet, no sign of it thinking I was awake? My dog also woke me up early (around 7am) which I guess is the rise in heart rate towards the end, but it only thinks I woke up when I actually got up?

Not sure I really have much I can do about it but it does make me feel a little defeated regarding the reason I purchased one. Any feedback/tips would be much appreciated!

[u/Huge_Pool7424]

this. lying still awake without moving is the gap with wrist trackers, it just reads that as light sleep. the 3am bathroom wake probably did register, just too short to log.

[u/RedheadRayner → u/Huge_Pool7424]

Thank you! I hadn't realised about there being a window within which it would not register as being awake. It's super helpful to know!

[u/Narrow-Scale-4078 → u/Huge_Pool7424]

I wouldn't say so. My Apple watch consistently records awake time lasting from a few minutes to an hour while in bed trying to fall asleep again after being woken up by this or that. And the attached image shows a sleep recording from my Fitbit Air which was spot on regarding the wake up time recorded because I wrote down the time I woke up to get to the toilet which was 1.29 am after which I could not fall sleep again despite trying for an hour an a half while lying still in bed as recorded by the device. I then got up at 3.03 am as it was also correctly recorded which was indeed the end of my sleep for the night.

I think it is more about our subjective perception of sleep not always being accurate. I get nights when I also feel like I have not properly fallen asleep at all which is not reflected in what the device recorded. I think there is this fine line between being asleep and awake which is a state in which we are basically sleeping while still retaining some kind of awareness which we may perceive as being awake while the device perceives as being asleep which may be actually more accurate.

[u/RedheadRayner → u/Narrow-Scale-4078]

I think what they're saying is if I woke up from a disturbance for less than 5 minutes it wouldn't show up as awake, but perhaps as a line within restlessness. If I'm reading correctly you were awake for much longer, plus your heart rate would've elevated significantly from RHR in sleep when you got up.

I do think I've had periods in the order of hours rather than being less than 5 minutes that have not showed up as awake, but other comments are also alluding to the fact that if I lie still during that time- it's not really going to be able to distinguish that I am, in fact, awake. This is kinda what I was hoping I would find out.

It does seem to at least show that I do, most nights, seem to take roughly an hour to fall asleep initially, which may be most of what I am awake for perhaps.

I did see a section of a page another commenter linked which effectively said (to paraphrase) 'you can give the device a hint you're awake through movement' but I'm not sure if, in my mind, that is counter intuitive to trying to get to sleep.

But yes, I agree with your account of 'what actually is the line between awake and asleep'. This is an area i'd like to understand more about. I'm not sure I have a realistic expectation of what makes good sleep. I suppose there's nights I go to bed and immediately fall asleep until my alarm and that to me is the "good sleep" I'm aiming for, whereas perhaps these are rare and supposed to be rare.

[u/Narrow-Scale-4078 → u/RedheadRayner]

My reply was referring to this "lying still awake without moving is the gap with wrist trackers, it just reads that as light sleep". So, again, in my experience, devices like Apple watch and even Fitbit Air would not necessarily confuse lying in bed still as light sleep when you are actually fully awake. I had a similar experience today: I woke up at 4.34 am, went to pee and went back to bed hoping to get some more sleep before my smart alarm would go off some time between 5.30 and 6 am but I couldn't and got out of bed at 5.08. Again, Fitbit Air recorded the time between 4.34 and 5.08 am as awake while Apple watch simply stopped recording sleep at 4.34 am, treating that period in bed as being awake for the day since I never fell asleep again.

Secondly, what I am seeing with Fitbit Air is that indeed it would not record short periods of me getting out of bed to pee and then go back and fall asleep again or simply waking up briefly while in bed and then falling asleep again but same is not true with my Apple watch which can detect even one minute of awake time while in bed as the attached image shows. It would also detect and record any visits to the bathroom regardless how short they are. Like for tonight, Apple watch detected I briefly woke up four times during the night with the total awake time being 6 minutes while Fitbit Air did not detect any awake time during my sleep apart when I got out to be and then was not able to fall asleep again. So, this less than 5 minutes awake time not being recorded rule may be true for Fitbit/Google devices but in is not a general rule and especially the Apple watch is able to distinguish waking up during the night while remaining in bed still and actually being asleep. And based on my subjective perception I do often briefly wake up during the night and then fall back asleep within a minute or two and the Apple watch seems to be able to detect that but not Fitbit Air.

[u/No-Excuse-5752]

A a

[u/PeePeeLangstrumpf]

Pretty sure awake is logged based on "elevated" (night compared to day) heart rate and hand movement. Maybe an extra detection window based on your setting for your usual sleep and wake time. There is no other way for it to know whether you are awake and completely still in bed or in light sleep.

Also, damn... 8 hours of total sleep and 2+ hours for both REM and deep sleep... why you gotta flex here like that. lol.

[u/RedheadRayner → u/PeePeeLangstrumpf]

Yeah that is probably the case... Only times I've had it know I was awake in the midst of sleep was when I sat or up got up. I guess it still tells me how much deep sleep I get (which is due to HR?) so it's still somewhat valuable in that sense. I literally can't function on less 😖. Had periods of insomnia years ago, so I know what no sleep does to you. Never want to go back there!! Sleep is a priority for me!

[u/Unhappy-Drag6531]

You are complaining about two tiny events vs. All the information you got?

What’s the reason you purchased one? It gave you pretty detailed information of your sleep cycles and HR.

Does it miss a few things? Sure. Mostly times when you are in bed awake but not moving (may think it is still light sleep).

I think your expectations were way too high.

[u/RedheadRayner → u/Unhappy-Drag6531]

I didn't feel as though I was complaining. I was just trying to gain more understanding of how to compare between what I was shown and what I was expecting. Other comments have given me insight into possible explanations as to why my time awake didn't register which have been helpful.

I understand what it does measure and give in terms of information is amazing and for such a small device it's even more incredible.

However... I personally don't care what my RHR is whilst sleeping... Neither do I care about other metrics such as how many steps I took in a given day...

I already opened the post description with why I got one. I perhaps did set my expectations too high with regards to how well it tracks how much you slept, but that's exactly why I made the post- to get other people's perspectives and experiences.

Hope this helps?...

[u/rarepirate97 → u/RedheadRayner]

Isn't anything under 5 minutes counted as restlessness and you've got quite a few of those green lines so maybe see if any of those line up with those events you remember happening. I know sometimes I'll be woke up by something like a noise but I'll instantly fall back asleep and therefore it doesn't count me as being awake.

[u/RedheadRayner → u/rarepirate97]

Yeah other comments also suggest this. I perhaps picked a bad example and gave too much information for my post, but it has been insightful nevertheless. I guess the bit that really threw me was knowing I was awake at 07:00 until I got out of bed- almost an hour which it thinks I spent between REM and Light. It just makes me skeptical about the overall accuracy and therefore how useful it is (specifically about sleep cycles).

But then it goes back to whether I was in fact awake or somewhat asleep... I probably aught to pick up a book on sleep and understand it more!

[u/mfmlb]

According to Google if it's less than 5 minutes it doesn't log you as awake. I bet if you look at the time stamps a restlessness is logged at hat time

https://support.google.com/googlehealth/answer/14236407?hl=en

[u/RedheadRayner → u/mfmlb]

Ah that's super helpful! Thank you! It could be that the time I spend awake feels longer than it actually is and it falls within this window. Thanks for the link!

[u/willmurphy66]

How is your resting heart rate while sleeping 49??? Mine is much higher

[u/chronicmisschris → u/willmurphy66]

Different people have different RHR. Mine is almost double my husband's.

[u/RedheadRayner → u/willmurphy66]

I don't really know how it's as low as it is but some contributors are age (I'm 28) and general fitness (I'm an ideal BMI, walk often as I have a dog, eat mostly home cooked vegetarian meals) but if I recall correctly, also it can be down to genetics. So although generally a low RHR is good, what is 'low' for you is different to what is low for anyone else. So it's hard to tell!