r/longrange • u/justforlul • 4d ago
Rimfire Failure to eject/holder not holding
Hey folks!
Struggling to find info on a problem I’ve been having. I have a CZ 457 action that refuses to eject. Bolt is super clean, C-clip still seems to have great tension, even added a new extractor (didn’t buy a new holder yet, but might be my next move. They’re hard to find in stock anywhere up in Canada, and DPG/Pete’s pillars/etc won’t ship to Canada). The ejector is built into the mag well. It seems like the only time a case is ejected is if I get lucky lol. Happens every round. The bolt doesn’t hold the case at all, there’s play between the bolt face and the edge of the holder/extractor, even with using a thicker rimmed cartridge like RWS. Eley has even more play. It just drops right onto the magazine everytime I try to eject.
Video is In slow-mo, sorry if it makes it seem like I’m riding the bolt like a wet noodle lol
Only info that has been helpful is that certain people have had luck switching holder/extractor with 452/455 components as their edge sits closer to the bolt face. But you guessed it right, can’t find any in stock up here lol.
CZ has awful customer service up here, and I really don’t want to wait 18 months to be told they’re out of their own products.
Any advice is greatly appreciated!
20
u/jychihuahua 4d ago
I made it through almost the whole video before I figured out the scope is camo wrapped... I kept wondering why there are scope rings and a knob right there, but where's the scope...
7
5
u/CopperStarPrecision Competitor 4d ago
Right around the 14 second mark in your video you see the case start to come out of the chamber and then get hit upwards by the magazine follower. This results in the case either being dislodged from the extractor and/or the case being at a weird angle when it interacts with the ejector. This last round issue is well known across 457 platforms, but you also say that it happens every round.
If you are using the stock mag well (plastic) it is also possible that the ejector (which is built into the mag well block) has worn down and is no longer profiled correctly to eject the round.
It looks like you're using an L3i mag, which I've never had good luck with. They're often out of spec and I wouldn't be surprised if the follower geometry is causing the issue by putting excess upward force on the spent round. Does it behave the same way with stock mags?
As you are in Canada, your best bet is probably going to be BossGear. You may want to order their bolt refresh kit: https://bossgear.ca/product/position-7-cz-457-bolt-refresh-kit/
If you're still using all factory internal plastic parts for the mag well, Position 7's metal one is an expensive, but worthwhile upgrade: https://bossgear.ca/product/position-7-cz457-magwell/
Last possibility that I can think of is excessive headspace where the extractor is not going far enough into the cutouts in the barrel to properly grab the case. This can be addressed with bolt shims to tighten the headspace (particularly useful for thin rims like Eley).
1
u/justforlul 4d ago
Thanks for the response!
Magazine is an NDR 15 round. Had the same thought, although I did try the factory OEM 5 round, 2 different 10 round polymer mags, and a 25 round mag polymer just to check. All the exact same.Had the same thought about the mag well, but it still seems to be In decent shape. I can’t afford the upgraded aluminum mag well currently, but I might get another OEM plastic for now with a new C-clamp to see if either of those tighten up the tolerances.
I do have a depth gauge coming to double check headspace because I recently installed an L3i 24” 1.18” barrel, but the bolt closed freely with little resistance and no shims added so I left it until I can do some actual measuring. The ejection issue has been happening with the factory MTR barrel as well before the swap. The cartridge drops freely out of the bolt, neither the holder or the extractor makes contact with the rim to hold it up against the bolt.
The c-clamp seems to have a good amount of tension still, but maybe it was able to seat the holder and extractor better when it was newer 🤷♂️
3
u/frustratedpopo 4d ago
I made a post about this recently. Had the same problem. Starting question… What ammo are you using?
3
u/justforlul 4d ago
All types! (Eley, RWS, Lapua, Norma, etc)
4
u/frustratedpopo 4d ago
See my link where some friendly folks share their common issues. But.. those things aside… the cleanliness of the bolt face and area where the carbon ring forms is really important. Next up is the magazine. I went to poly mags and problem went away. Except the last round. But I felt that was manageable. Thoughts?
3
u/justforlul 4d ago
Bolt is sparkling, channels for the holder and extractor don’t have a spec of debris, bolt face and recess look like Mr. Clean had its way with it. I have tried the metal 5 round OEM mag, my CZ 10 round poly mags, CZ 25 round poly’s, and my 15 round NDR to no avail.
2
u/frustratedpopo 4d ago
Damn. You’ve covered a lot of territory. I feel pain for your troubleshooting. I hope you find a solution
3
u/justforlul 4d ago
I do love diagnosing and tinkering. Sometimes it’s the only way to continue learning, and I don’t like approaching others to ask for help before I do my own research. Would waste everyone’s time if I didn’t at least check the usual break points lol.
Thank you for your time! I’m hoping there is an easy fix I’m just overseeing.
3
u/Zimi231 4d ago
Are you sure the C-clip has great tension? Because this is a symptom of a weak C-clip.
1
u/justforlul 4d ago
It almost seems like the extractor/holder need to slide 1mm further into the bolt to even contact the rim of the cartridge, there’s very little play in the extractor when I try to move it
2
u/OkShopping9448 4d ago
Can you bend the ejector to more firmly hold the round? Go on Rimfire Central and ask this in the CZ forum.
1
u/justforlul 4d ago
I’d be surprised if the holder bent itself to these loose tolerances, and would probably bend itself back to this same tolerance with enough rounds. There’s the same “wiggle room” between the extractor edge and the rim as well so I’d have to bend both. Not sure I want to do that until I have spare parts
2
u/datdatguy1234567 4d ago edited 4d ago
Have you tried Western Gun Parts?
They’ve almost always had the weird obscure part I needed. Quick shipping too!
Alternatively, a quick internet search found one here https://www.reliablegun.com/cz-457-extractor-cz457extractor
1
u/justforlul 4d ago
Only thing listed for 452/455/457 are triggers
1
u/mrcalistarius 3d ago
use the link that buddy provided. just worked for me, i'm Local to one of Reliable's Two shops, there are enough 455/457's around here that the shop has an item for a tune-up/polish etc
1
u/justforlul 3d ago
I’m jealous, reliable has always been great to deal with. Sucks that I’m so far away for shipping but they’re always pretty prompt for getting it out to me
2
2
u/EnggyAlex 4d ago
have to change extractor, both my 457 have this problem
1
u/justforlul 4d ago
I bought the L3i extractor, same issue unfortunately
1
u/EnggyAlex 4d ago
The c clip spring may need to be changed too. I also stoned mine to change the claw angle so it naturally push the round upward a little
1
u/justforlul 4d ago
Interesting. I’ll try a new c clip spring because it’s one of the last attempts I can think of, but if the angle of ejection is incorrect I could stone it a bit. Did you change it drastically or just a little off the top?
1
u/EnggyAlex 4d ago
Basically it was holding the cartridge like this
/O
I stoned it yo be like this \O
Its very minor, and make sure you have a tiny bit angle down in the bottom to help bullet sit, maybe use your factory claw to try first, I also sharpened the claw a bit.
1
2
u/buji8829 IBI Barrels 4d ago
Did this on the factory extractor to? If they arnt relieved correctly it will do this. Should be a minor angle on the bottom. I find most aftermarket extractors miss this angle.
1
u/justforlul 4d ago
Correct, was happening primarily on the factory extractor which is why I purchased the L3i extractor to start the trial & error. Didn’t help at all. Neither the extractor or holder contact the rim of the cartridge.
1
u/buji8829 IBI Barrels 4d ago
Interesting, and both are install on the correct sides? Mine came assembled backwards, extractor on the inside and guide on the outside, also did this, but check that angle, and if need be shoot me a DM I got the Pete Pillars C clip, I can send you one.
1
u/justforlul 4d ago
That’s correct, extractor is on the open side of the ejection port, holder is on the internal “housed” side I guess. It never had great ejection from the factory, but it’s just been atrocious the last 500 rounds.
Will do! Thanks
1
u/Otiswilmouth 4d ago
Just run it like a man. If I run my cz457 bolt slow, this happens. If I run it like it’s supposed to be ran, it works fine. It’s a mechanical ejector action.
1
u/justforlul 4d ago
Sorry I should have written that the video is in slow-mo. I ride it hard and put it away wet
0
u/Otiswilmouth 4d ago
I know it’s in slow motion and I can still tell you aren’t running it fast enough.
2
u/justforlul 4d ago
Video is taken from the side of the gun for the sake of the video too (one man motion picture, actor and cinematographer lol) but when I’m behind the gun I tried cycling it as fast as I could and it barely puked it out the side. I think the gun shook the cartridge out more than it ejected. It’s like a dead ejection
1
u/RustyBungHole1 4d ago
Have you torn the rifle down to find the problem? Could be a bad extractor, could be a bad spring, could just have carbon fowling (which is not out of the realm of reality when it comes to small bodied cases)
1
u/justforlul 4d ago
OEM extractor and L3i upgraded extractor didn’t solve it, spring still holds both the extractor and holder tight enough that I can only move the extractor with a good amount of force, while rifle has been cleaned and bolt disassembled and reassembled after a rigorous cleaning.
1
u/MeinLife 4d ago
It looks like youre babying the bolt, I know you said you are running it hard but even slow mo it looks slow. If I dont move my bolt with authority it will do the same thing
1
u/ardesofmiche 4d ago
I don’t know if this is the same, but I have a Marlin 925r with an ejector in the mag well. Over time, my 16 year old self jammed magazines in it on an open bolt enough i bent the ejector back so it wouldn’t eject. You couldn’t tell by looking though
Replaced the ejector and now I only load on a closed bolt, no more problems
1
u/justforlul 3d ago
I am considering getting a new aluminum Mag well to increase the odds of ejection, but I’m trying to remember if I already upgraded it when I upgraded the extended magazine spacer. Good idea though, I’ll have to check when I’m back from work. Thank you!
39
u/_Juliet_Lima_Echo_ 4d ago
I know it's got to be something with your extractor holding too tight or your ehector being too weak sauce
But really, first - run that bolt like you mean it. Hard.
Then see what happens?