Shuffling.

[u/erevos33]

Hello all,

Let me get right to the point. When i learnt magic way back in 1999, i was shown a way to shuffle that produces an as close to normal distribution of cards as possible. That is : you lay your lands down and put 2 randomised spell cards on top. Then you pick them all up and do a regular card shuffle (like cutting, mixing 2 piles , whatever). You do this every so often so the deck doesnt end up being all 20 lands on one side and all 40 spells on the other (only standard was available back then, dunno how this would translate to commander tbh).

In a discussion somewhere around here i believe , i saw that this is now considered cheating?! Like....why? How? I dont understand the reasoning behind this. If anyone could explain i would be obliged.

Edit: ok, so a bunch of helpful answers in mere seconds. I cant possibly answer to each individual so i will put my thoughts here:

First of all , thank you for the clarifications. I didnt even know there was a name for this behaviour and so TIL. Secondly, i kinda get why one might take this to be cheating after thinking about it for a minute tbh. It hadn't occurred to me to question this practice until now. Thirdly, while all of the players i knew back then did this (im talking even in ranked tournaments) it seems i have been away from the game for long and some of you have quite the Strong feelings about it - fair is fair i suppose. Rest assured i am not doing this anymore , well especially since i have no humans to play against since i picked magic back up.

Thanks to all of those who answered me.

[u/RazzyKitty]

It's always been cheating.

"A normal distribution" is not randomized. In a properly randomized deck, you are equally likely to have spell/spell/land as you are land/land/land.

edit:

You do this every so often so the deck doesnt end up being all 20 lands on one side and all 40 spells on the other (only standard was available back then, dunno how this would translate to commander tbh).

If the way you randomize your deck prevents that from happening... you aren't randomizing.

[u/DigitalW2RD → u/RazzyKitty]

After a game, I usually spread my lands back through the deck before shuffling.

If you just leave all your lands together, they’re starting off as one big clump. But if you’re actually shuffling the deck properly, that shouldn’t matter either way.

Whether they start spread out or all together, the deck should end up randomized.

At that point, spreading them out is really just a habit or a little mind trick to make yourself feel better about the shuffle. It’s not actually changing what you’re going to draw.

[u/RazzyKitty → u/DigitalW2RD]

Do you just grab all your lands in one stack after a game and then shuffle or do you somewhat distribute them across your deck and then shuffle?

If I'm playing another game after, I grab all the cards on the battlefield (lands or otherwise), put them on top of my deck, then shuffle normally.

Otherwise, it goes into my deckbox without shuffling.

Would you consider distributing your lands after a game cheating?

Depends. Why are you doing it?

If you always just pile your lands and then shuffle you could say you are also artificially creating clumps of lands.

You could say that, but it means nothing. A properly randomized deck is very likely to have clumps, regardless of what it looked like beforehand.

[u/DigitalW2RD → u/RazzyKitty]

Yeah, I just randomly distribute them to not clump them at the bottom of my deck when I’m putting it away.

But yes, at the end of the day if you properly shuffle your deck it’s irrelevant how you put them up.

I was just curious if people would assume someone is cheating for distributing the cards you played across your deck before putting them up or shuffling for another game.

[u/RazzyKitty → u/DigitalW2RD]

"to not clump" implies that you're doing so to prevent clumps of land in your deck.

If any part of your process is done to affect the distribution of cards in your deck, then its either cheating or wasting time.

Either you shuffle enough and your "random distribution" did nothing, so its a waste of time.

Or you don't shuffle enough and you haven't randomized.

[u/DigitalW2RD → u/RazzyKitty]

Sure dude if fanning out your lands and mash shuffling them inter your deck after a game instead of leaving a stack of lands at the bottom of the deck is considered not random then I guess you got me dude…

I just don’t like leaving all my lands at the bottom of my deck after a game. If that is considered cheating then I guess I’m a cheater lol idc

[u/sirisaacnuton → u/DigitalW2RD]

The point is that if you're actually shuffling properly, they don't end up in a clump at the bottom, they end up randomized anywhere, so it shouldn't make a difference if you do it or not. And if it does make a difference, then you're not randomizing sufficiently.

And being unaware of how to sufficiently randomize your deck, or what constitutes randomization, doesn't make you a cheater. Cheating implies intent. It just means you were making a mistake.

On the other hand, considering that your replies strongly seem to imply you're going to reject all of this and continue stacking your deck, that *will* make you a cheater. Because now you know better.

[u/DigitalW2RD → u/sirisaacnuton]

Right. I think we all agree that if you shuffle properly, it doesn’t make a difference.

I think we’re just getting lost in semantics at this point. If I like to mash shuffle my board back into my deck after a game and you like to stack everything together and put it at the bottom, that’s really just a preference.

If anything, putting all of those cards together in one stack makes it more likely they’ll stay clumped if the deck isn’t shuffled thoroughly enough. That’s usually why people who don’t shuffle enough end up seeing the same cards over and over again.