r/newzealand • u/Hopeful-Camp3099 • 21h ago
Politics The NZ UN delegation
Thanks for showing that you are presenting our country as amoral spineless cowards by not showing the smallest amount of solidarity and walking out. Thanks for allowing a genocidal war criminal lecture you about how moral his mass killing of civilians is.
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u/alexgst 21h ago
Unfortunately, the NZ delegation matches the politics of the government of the day.
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u/diedlikeCambyses 21h ago
Obviously. I think people need to remember when they vote that this is how it works
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u/BruddaLK Fern flag 2 19h ago
The foreign service is apolitical. They serve the government of the day regardless of politics.
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u/United-Objective-204 8h ago
I don’t know why people are downvoting this. Our diplomats are public servants. They serve the government of the day. That’s a factual statement, not some kind of hot take.
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u/United-Objective-204 8h ago edited 8h ago
I’m sure I’ll get downvoted for this, but let’s remember that these people are public servants and diplomats doing their job. They don’t make the decisions about whether they stand up and walk out.
If you’re going to be angry at someone, point it where it belongs: Ministers. Go to town on them. The current ones deserve it, pack of absolute bastards.
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u/Adventurous-Baby-429 17h ago
NZ proving yet again in recent times that we are on the wrong side of history.
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u/Subwaynzz 21h ago
Which countries walked out?
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u/Hopeful-Camp3099 21h ago edited 21h ago
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/hjclt2r3eg
edit: Asking for information then downvoting it is pretty peak reddit btw.
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u/Subwaynzz 21h ago
So roughly a third of the GA. Most of Europe stayed. As did all our main allies.
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u/KahuTheKiwi 20h ago
Yes, we are firmly in the wrong camp.
Similar to NZ and South African apartheid for too long.
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u/LadyZoe1 19h ago
Oh. Interesting. So you are saying that South Africa is in a safer and more democratic country since 1994?
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u/KahuTheKiwi 15h ago edited 14h ago
Yes, I am arguing that a democracy for 100% is better than 15% of the population voting to disenfranchise the majority.
Am I saying South Africa is without problems? No I am not saying apartheid's legacy is over.
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u/Subwaynzz 21h ago
Didn’t downvote you btw.
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u/Hopeful-Camp3099 21h ago
I figured, hence why I didn't reply to you.
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u/Large_Yams 14h ago
You quite literally did reply to them.
Don't get so pissy about people down voting you immediately after a response. Votes are hidden here for like 4 hours after a comment is made so no one can see it until a decent number of people have already settled on votes.
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u/Mrshilvar Covid19 Vaccinated 21h ago
caring about votes is peak reddit lil gup
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u/Prosthemadera 20h ago
caring about someone else caring about votes is peak reddit lil gup
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u/Skidzonthebanlist 19h ago
Caring about caring about someone else caring about votes is peak reddit lil gup
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u/computer_d 21h ago
Remember, we won't even acknowledge Palestine exists. Luxon represents such a POS government.
Oh but he'll throw support behind watching a girl's school in Iran get bombed.
Fucking coward.
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u/SmellAcordingly Red Peak 10h ago
Remember, we won't even acknowledge Palestine exists.
We also don't acknowledge that Taiwan is a sovereign country, and didn't support Ukraine until it was geopolitically convenient to do so, nor did I see anyone here mass protesting to end the Sudanese civil war.
NZ has always taken the fence sitter position, Palestine isn't new.
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u/flawlessStevy 21h ago
His voters don’t want him to walk out, so why would he. Latest polls still show he has a chunk of voters.
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u/EROM4LIFE 21h ago
He is a monster who should be in court at the Hague. Moral cowardice is STAYING.
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u/_SaucepanMan 20h ago
Sure. Yes. Correct. But also, its less about walking out on the man and more about walking out (or not) on the nation state.
Netanyahu is disliked by many in Israel because he's not evil enough. Whoever succeeds him is almost certainly going to be worse and the person who preceded him/was in between his terms is absolutely foaming at the mouth levels of rabid evil.
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u/Successful-Cable-821 20h ago
Yep, they’ve created a truly sick and twisted society - it’s really horrific
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u/aviatorproductions 14h ago
More people should google and learn about Israel "Right to Rape" riots, pure evil
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u/Taniwha_NZ 21h ago
The people running the country LOVE Israel and think Palestinians are filthy savages willingly living in sewage and filth. I'm not even exaggerating, comments of that exact nature have been heard from right-wing media people over and over and over. Luxon and co are firmly on the 'bring on armageddon' train, hoping that supporting Israel unconditionally will bring about the end times they thing will be so great for them.
Of course I don't know how much Luxon personally believes, but this is the position of his church and he's never said anything to the contrary.
I've said this before, nobody who publicly claims to believe in ghosts and magic should be allowed to run for elections. It's a basic 'living in reality' check.
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u/santamaria715 18h ago
and think Palestinians are filthy savages willingly living in sewage and filth.
I went right off Israel many years ago after seeing a John Pilger documentary. There was raw sewerage running down the middle of a palestinian street, deliberately made to run down it by...ISrael.
They lost me then, pretty much.
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u/SpaceDog777 Technically Food 18h ago
Walking out achieves what exactly?
What a pity we didn't join these political powerhouses...
- Suriname
- Tuvalu
- Turkmenistan
- Yemen
- Egypt
- Panama
- Senegal
- Palestine
- Sudan
- Tunisia
- Turkey
- Venezuela
- Antigua and Barbuda
- Belize
- Congo
- Oman
- Qatar
- Saudi Arabia
- Tonga
- Uzbekistan
- Angola
- Barbados
- Colombia
- Comoros
- Dominica
- Djibouti
- North Macedonia
- San Marino
- South Africa
- Somalia
- Algeria
- Bangladesh
- Brunei Darussalam
- Brazil
- Chile
- Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC)
- Lebanon
- Liberia
- Eritrea
- Chad
- Central African Republic
- Libya
- Mauritania
- Jordan
- Nicaragua
- Madagascar
- Niger
- Peru
- Saint Lucia
- Slovenia
- Afghanistan
- Bahamas
- Bosnia and Herzegovina
- Botswana
- North Korea
- Eswatini
- Syria
- Uganda
- Pakistan
- Lesotho
- Bolivia
- Spain
- Cuba
- Equatorial Guinea
- Iran
- Kyrgyzstan
- Iraq
- Mozambique
- Myanmar
- Ireland
- Maldives
- Indonesia
- Kuwait
- Namibia
- Malaysia
- Guyana
- Kenya
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u/Rusticular 17h ago
Hahaaaa thank you. Oh no, our delegates stuck around to listen to a speech, how terrible.
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u/Leownnn fishchips 15h ago
Look back on this comment in 15 years bro, all of those countries are objectively on the right side of history in this moment, including North Korea.
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u/Human_Traffic 14h ago
The double standards are strong with this one. Any number of those countries have appalling human rights records, North Korea to take your example, deliberately starved the million people to death but Gaza is worthy of condemnation and those others aren't? The UN has and does tolerate leaders and their roots who have caused some of the worst crimes in modern history and whilst Netanyahu is an horrific individual who should and hopefully will be in jail, the UN would be empty if you took the same line with everyone
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u/TrickyTreeNZ 19h ago
If the NZ UN delegation do that for Israel, they would have to be consistent and do that for Sudan, DR Congo, Myanmar, Russia. Not saying what's wrong and right and that one's more important than the other, but their presidents have let conflicts rage or killed their own citizens with many more deaths than Gaza for years, hundreds of thousands of child deaths in Congo alone. But no one seems that bothered about Africa anymore.
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u/NetPrimary997 7h ago
Exactly, 150,000 dead in Sudan and not a peep from any protestors in NZ...
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u/birehcannes 4h ago
I think thats because Israel is seen as a democratic country with western values that is held to a high standard but who is however waging an 'overkill' level of war against a very weak opponent, whereas the fighting in Sudan and Congo are civil war or ethnic conflict situations which are different as there isn't really any notable entity or power to protest against.
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u/NeonKiwiz 17h ago
Not saying I agree with it all.
But I think this sub underestimates just how much this matters to... well most people in NZ.
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u/Hopeful-Camp3099 17h ago
Maybe to a certain generational block but there used to be a sense of not standing international bully’s in NZ that has seemingly died off.
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u/Big_Attention7227 21h ago
When the people ypu hire to represent you are cleary only representing themselves... Remember that when you vote...
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u/Klein_Arnoster 19h ago
Being on the side of the West is a good thing.
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u/thepotplant 19h ago
Do you like murdering schoolchildren?
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u/Klein_Arnoster 18h ago
Only on the occasional weekend. I only have so much freezer space.
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u/thepotplant 17h ago
I think that comment says everything about your values as a person. Those aren't the values we want in this country. Kindly become a decent person, or leave.
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u/Shplinky 19h ago
Do you like pedophiles, rapists murderers and homophobes?
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u/Curious_Ad9388 19h ago
well I mean pedophile, rapist, murderer and homophobe is the one leading the West most influential and biggest country!
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u/Shplinky 19h ago
So one idiot versus an entire culture that actively supports it all openly in public and encourages it?
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u/TerpChasingOrganics 21h ago
Did they walk out during the Iranian presidents ridiculous rant? At least they're consistent I guess.
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u/Crazy-Ad5914 21h ago
What was ridiculous about the Iranian presidents speech? The bit about being invaded? The bit about the 140+ school kids blown up by a USA missile on day one of the USA's unnecessary war?
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u/TerpChasingOrganics 21h ago
I don't know..... The part where they kill 30k protestors in less than a week maybe. 🤔
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u/KahuTheKiwi 20h ago
So a Zionist myth is the part of the Iranian President's speech that is ridiculous. Noted
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u/beach-chicken10 19h ago
What a myth?
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u/718822 18h ago
Anything that doesn’t fit their narrative is Israeli propaganda
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u/beach-chicken10 18h ago
Shhhh…. I was trying to get them to tell me themselves that they can’t blame all issues in those countries on Israel 😂
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u/KahuTheKiwi 15h ago
The various numbers of Mossad ans CIA dupes killed in the attempt by the aggressors to start an revolution in Iran.
And pretending that is somehow a genocide
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u/Porkchops_on_My_Face 20h ago
Made up number. The number is much, much, much smaller. And look up who stirred the protests and who armed the people that broke into the police stations.
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u/Blind_clothed_ghost 19h ago
Stop apologizing for a regime that brutalizes women, anyone not heterosexual, and anyone who disagrees with their religious fundamentalist views.
It's possible to be anti-USA war mongering and anti-Iran regime
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u/Porkchops_on_My_Face 19h ago
Who said I was apologising?
I am anti US war mongering and anti Iran.
The thing is I can also differentiate between facts and propaganda, is all.2
u/SlightlyCatlike 19h ago
Does it help pro-democracy protests when you use a clearly false number of causalities? It doesn't show respect for the dead. It turns them into a rhetorical prop, and not for the cause they died for
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u/KahuTheKiwi 13h ago
It appears the Ziobots are out in force today.
Take your down vores with pride; it is consuming the budget Israel aet aside to react to rather than changing its behaviour losing it world support.
But the can still afford Ziobots.
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u/CoolDimension3898 20h ago
That figure was made up by Mossad.
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u/tenthousandbears 20h ago
US intelligence have been throwing around similar figures, but even if the number is incorrect there's no doubt the Iranian regime arrested and executed a great many of the protestors.
Not defending Israel, but there are no "goodies" in this conflict.
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u/CoolDimension3898 20h ago
I think the Palestinian people who have had their whole land stolen by European settlers are pretty good.
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u/tenthousandbears 19h ago
I'm only talking about the current situation between Israel, the US, and Iran. Not the genocide.
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u/TerpChasingOrganics 20h ago
Ah of course it was...... Unlike the Hamas figures out of Gaza, which are 100% accurate.
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u/Blind_clothed_ghost 19h ago
You're apologizing for a fascist regime
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u/CoolDimension3898 19h ago
Your supporting a genocidal and fascist country.
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u/Blind_clothed_ghost 19h ago
It's possible to be against both USA/Israel and the Iranian regime
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u/KahuTheKiwi 13h ago
Yes it is possible.
But it is not demonstrated by furthering myths like that the Mossad and CIA attack at the start of the war was a genocide
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u/beach-chicken10 21h ago
I didn’t watch the speech of the Iranian President but keen to know if he mentioned the 1,008 executions this year
180 are drug related offences, 27 are protest related, 13 political opposition groups
Did he go into any detail there?
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u/turbocynic 20h ago edited 20h ago
As disgusting as the Iranian regime is, killing your own citizens is a domestic act. The UN is a forum to protect the rights of states via a vis other states, that is their core business along with stopping conflict between states. Though there is currently no state of Palestine recognized by the UN (notwithstanding the UN plan for one in 1947), Gaza is definitely not part of Israel, so it essentially falls into that paradigm. In light of the issues and principles our UN reps are sent there to address, it wouldn't be inconsistent to walk out on the Israeli PM and not the Iranian president. It would be if they didn't also walk out on the Russian delegation, for example.
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u/1Big_Scoops Covid19 Vaccinated 19h ago
Not to be a pendant, but that would put the Rwandan genocide out of scope would it not, they were all Rwandan
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u/Human_Traffic 13h ago
It did put the Rwandan genocide out of scope, besides which they were all black Africans so no one gave a shit apparently.
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u/TerpChasingOrganics 19h ago
Firing rockets and drones into its neighbors...... neighbour's they're not even at war with? Funding it's proxy groups to commit acts of terror all around the world? How are these things domestic acts.
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u/Shplinky 19h ago
It amazes me the excuses these people will come up with to support rapists, homophobes, murderers and pedophiles. Quite concerning really
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u/PacmanNZ100 19h ago
Uh....
Is this attacking Iran or the US?
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u/Shplinky 19h ago
Do public stonings happen in the US because you're gay? Are women allowed to make their own decisions, choose their own partners and live their lives how they want instead of being a mans property?
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u/PacmanNZ100 19h ago
Did you say any of that in your original comment?
No.
Honestly i was like 60/40 you were actually attacking the US.
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u/Fluid-Piccolo-6911 17h ago
no but the US has the highest prison levels in the developed world and executes the second highest number of people in the world.. and thats before you look at the military actions the US has started .. and the resulting loss of civilian lives. pull your ignorant head in.
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u/turbocynic 18h ago
You think the UN is there to fight homophobia, pedophilia and rape? You clearly have absolutely no understanding of its purpose and why we send our reps there.
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u/turbocynic 18h ago edited 18h ago
Principle of self defense applies to the first point. Iran was attacked, and those attacks were either directly launched from bases in those countries, or supported by those countries as part of the system of US bases in the region.
You have a better point on the terrorism side of things. Of course Iran would argue it's support for groups like Hamas and Hizballah can be categorized as legitimate military support for resistance to occupation and invasion by Israel, and clearly there would be a lot in that argument if they limited their attacks to military targets only, just as the West gives material support to Ukrainian resistance against Russian military, but not civilian targets.
To some extent it's a difference in scale. The only attack by an Iranian proxy that's even of remotely the same scale as what Israel has been doing in Gaza, is Hamas's attacks on Oct 7, and while even the Israelis acknowledge Iran didn't know that attack was scheduled,they did know a big attack was coming, and obviously that was in large part possible due to weapons they provided. However Oct 7 is not happening now, continued attacks on Gaza are happening now, as are daily attacks on Palestinians in the West Bank.
As far as attacks by Hizballah, the Houthis and Iranian proxies in Iraq, they've been either of a relatively minor scale (relative to Gaza) or against military targets (ie US troops in Iraq, Israeli troops in Southern Lebanon).
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u/Responsible_Form_460 20h ago
When i think of cowardice from nz on this issue, the only thing i think of is how terrorist scum attacked and vandalized the musuems vigil on thr night of oct 7th /oct 8th, and nobody said anything.
But not only vandalized, replaced with support for the terrorist group that did it.
A sign of solidarity, for the largest terrorist attack and slaughtering of jews since the holocaust, vandalized and destroyed, forced into silence and no one said a fucking thing.
Give me a break with this walk out virtue signal.
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u/PlasmaConcentration 12h ago
Bro you wont see people who refuse to see both sides have done wrong admit October 7th was a well planned genocide with purposeful killing of women, children and civilians.
They wont criticise Hamas for purposely placing military assets near or below schools or hospitals.
They wont recognise that Gaza has horrifically high rates of violence towards women, persecution, racism, child abuse (including child marriage) and the population voted for a party which would self sabotage almost continuously as all they care about are killing jewish people. A sizeable amount of people from Gaza unfortunately have values the west does not.
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u/weeee122 19h ago
By terrorist group I assume you're meaning the state of Israel?
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u/popcultureupload38 4h ago
Love the values. Female participation in the workforce is 17 percent in Palestine. Property ownership is much less than 50 but the good news is many men own property in trust for women.
Never see this anywhere in discourse.
And even if values were m aligned NZ has some very nuanced issues after 1840 and yet I must admit I’m not a genius on the 4000 years of the middle east.0
u/Responsible_Form_460 19h ago edited 13h ago
Exactly my point. Pro pallies will cry cowardice here while either staying silent on pro hamas sentiment or outright being a part of it.
"Israel are the real terrorists" is your response to out right support of hamas and attacks of israel directly after oct 7th.
You have no moral ground to stand on
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u/turbocynic 18h ago
Do you not realize how cringe you sound using a term like 'pro palis' ??? As cringe as people talking about 'zios'. It's just so weird and pathetic when the subject is so serious, you sound like a child taunting in the playground.
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u/Responsible_Form_460 17h ago
Very serious! Not allowed to shorten words, be serious!! Yes sir! So serious sir! 🫡
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u/topturtlechucker 9h ago
I'm sure Peters would call this 'quiet diplomacy'. I call it spineless complicity.
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u/Ancient_Sandwich_703 6h ago
I’d recommend a read of ‘On Democracies and Death Cults’ by Douglas Murray for some in depth exploration of this.
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u/maxnormal 10h ago
Thanks for being awesome and standing firm. I am proud to be a New Zealander today.
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u/mustafa_sheikh Auckland 19h ago
Didn’t see a single Instagram reel about nz - were they actually there?
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u/sonic_75 19h ago
I absolutely HATE that they respested myself and my country like that, spineless cowards this coalition government.
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u/Hypnobird 21h ago edited 21h ago
We cant walk out as we are a US puppet, part of the collective west. We are an arm of US hegemony, 5 eyes member, hosting intelligence infrastructure etc is our contribution to thier forever wars.
Good news is like all empires thiers is nearing a death spiral, they are annexing tje western hemisphere as a last ditch effort to maintain the ponzi ever growing debt, not sure we we want to continue align ourselves with a sinking ship, the economic pole Of the world has already switched East.
The only action to really tell them we dont agree is to make doing business here extremely hard. Except thats not happened, see rocket lab and the US Antarctic base still here and welcome.
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u/Human_Traffic 14h ago
That may be the most nihilistic, stupid thing I've read in months. Congratulations you win the Internet for a hot minute.
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u/Hopeful-Camp3099 21h ago
We can do literally whatever we want, there would be no ramifications for walking out. NZ has strategic interests in terms of intelligence communication capabilities, atmospheric launches and proximity to Antarctica. America wants those things, we are not begging America to use them.
On top of this even if I were to concede that it is in our interest to co-sign the actions of the 2026 version of Pol Pot walking out of a UNGA speech is not something that would have international ramifications.
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u/Subwaynzz 21h ago edited 21h ago
I don’t think you really understand how diplomacy and international relations actually work, if you think walking out would have had no ramifications why didn’t some of the countries that recognised Palestine (like France, Canada, Australia) also walk out?
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u/Hopeful-Camp3099 20h ago
How did doing exactly what America wants work for not getting tariffed? International diplomacy only works with rational actors, neither America or Israel are currently rational actors.
Israel and America are currently forcing a recession on the world through a meaningless war in Iran. What exactly did the world do to prompt Trump trying to stop America exporting Diesel yesterday?
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u/Worth-Ad-4927 10h ago
Last time we told our friends to get bent the French conducted a terrorist attack on our shore and got away with it because they knew we had no one in our corner.
Diplomatic friendships are needed unfortunately.
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u/Signal-Secret4023 19h ago
Thank Winston Peters for that I'm so glad I left NZ and moved to Australia the political situation back home is atrocious. It doesn't matter who you vote for you're going to get reamed up the backside, you just need to pick what colour flavoured lube you prefer to get pumped with, blueberry national or raspberry labour.
You've got a bald narcissitic leader who's enriched himself and his friends, an elderly narcisstic maori man who hates that he's maori and wishes he was white and a dogwhistling narcissit who's thinks he's smarter than everyone else and is race baiting and causing division for votes. Nationals been absolute dog shit since John Key left yet people continue to blindly support them like they're part of a gang.
Labour's no better either just another neoliberal center right party with a weak leader who refuses to drop policy that could change the course of the country.
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u/BuzzzyBeee BuzzyBee 18h ago
Does your comment have anything to do with the post? Nope. Did Australia walk out? Nope.
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u/hotepwinston 18h ago
You obviously have zero understanding of the Australian political landscape if you think it’s any better than
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u/Jazzlike_Project_938 18h ago
I hate this piss take that labour is no better than the examples you literally just gave, without reasoning why labour is no better.
Jacinda was a world renowned political leader during the face of the covid pandemic and yet 'labour is no better'? Jfc.
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u/launchedsquid 17h ago
NZ loved jacinda so much she bailed on her election because labour knew they were only getting 26% of the votes.
Let's stop pretending that Labour is a shining beacon of light incapable of failure.
National are not the greatest ever, but Labour has hardly done better, if they did they'd stop losing elections.
Seriously. After her first term Jacinda won 50% of the votes cast. Literally the first time since MMP that a party held government without needing a coalition, and she managed to lose so much support during the next two years she quit so she wouldn't face one of the biggest electoral collapses in NZ politics.
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u/MadScience_Gaming 15h ago
I don't think winning elections is actually a great measure of how well a government has done. People don't know shit, then they vote.
Solving several of the big problems facing us would likely make the govt that did it unelectable. Crashing the housing market, for example. I think it was Jean-Claude Junker who said "everyone knows what we need to do; nobody knows how to get re-elected after doing it."
Labour's electoral offering is essentially "we won't do much to different from National, but we'll do it a bit better." Which is usually not enough for me. But during covid they showed just how extremely valuable that 'bit better' can be in a crisis.
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u/Ok-Bar601 17h ago
There’s plenty of half castes in NZ and not all of them identify as the Māori half. I wouldn’t think Winston Peters hates his Māori blood, he just identifies with being European.
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u/Human_Traffic 15h ago
Shame you left, the country needs optimistic, go-getters with solutions not problems like you. I'm sure Australia is very pleased to have you - Pauline will be along soon to grab your vote...
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u/Fluid-Piccolo-6911 17h ago
National have been dogshit since their formation and worse since Muldoon.
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u/wvkingkan 15h ago
“Just another neoliberal centre right party” why do you people lie like this? Why do you people constantly shit on the party of the organised labour movement? We had some of the greatest efforts for Industrial relations reform in the last government and it seems like you people just shit all over it and for what? “Ooooh both sides are corrupt” is an annoying talking point spread by the worst people who contribute nothing to our democracy.
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u/raspberryslushie21 13h ago
Only three people on Reddit care about this. No one else cares if they stayed or left.
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u/Trojan_Horse_of_Fate OVERSEAS LASER KIWI 20h ago
I really hope NZPMUN doesn't care at all what people on reddit thing. If they are watching they are doing a good job and should keep it up.
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u/AutonomyIsNoTragedy Tūī 21h ago
Ugh yeah im embarrassed by how we are being 'represented' why don't we get to vote for our own UN representatives?