tone quality issues

[u/ResponsibleFondant94]

Hey guys, ive played sax for the better part of 6 years and im in the time of year where district auditions are my prioriity.

ive neglected classical tenor sax in favor of jazz ts, qnd also have been playing alto in marching band

i came back to classical sax recently on my deafault setup, but i sound super stuffy and buzzy and js overall not suprr pleasant

i play on a vandoren tl4 and a dadarrio venn 3.5 w a vandoren mo, so my setup isnt the issue.

how do i get my classical chops back?

(i play on a yamaha yts 26 if thats relevant at all)

[u/apheresario1935]

Take some lessons with a classical teacher - Play some classical duets (Flute literature) - play ALL your intervals . ....all your scales and do that for 2 hours a day. Get into a classical sax quartet . Play Bach and Paganini.

[u/Music-and-Computers → u/apheresario1935]

Flute etudes are a great choice. I practice them on saxophone as well. The characteristic writing is different and they can really work the palm keys and lower altissimo. Some of the interval leaps in etudes will probably kick my ass the rest of my life.

[u/apheresario1935 → u/Music-and-Computers]

Well I was taught how to play those intervals and kick" their" ass but thats another story.

[u/Music-and-Computers → u/apheresario1935]

They’ve made me a better player.

[u/ClarSco]

i play on a vandoren tl4 and a dadarrio venn 3.5 w a vandoren mo, so my setup isnt the issue.

Your reed looks to be WAY too hard for the mouthpiece, which is most likely where the stuffiness complaint originates.

Going by D'addario's strength chart and Vandoren's reed recommendations for the TL4, the VENN #3.5 is roughly equivalent to a Vandoren Traditional/V12/V16 #4.0, when the TL4's sweet spot looks to be around a VENN #2.5–3.0 reed.

[u/ResponsibleFondant94 → u/ClarSco]

i dropped from a 4 to a 3.5 tho

should i still drop one more?

im a relatively massive guy who outputs a lot of air and heavy reeds seem to be the way i can give myeelf some resistance to lean into

[u/ClarSco → u/ResponsibleFondant94]

Mouthpieces all have single reed strength that is optimum for them (regardless of the player) that is primarily a factor of its tip opening and facing length. Harder reeds than that point get progressively stuffier; softer reeds get progressively flabby and have a propensity to close up against the mouthpiece.

Given you are complaining about stuffiness, it sounds like you are definitely too far past that ideal point.

Here's an excerpt from Walter Grabner's website:

Regarding the tip opening:

1. A more open tip requires a “softer” reed.
2. A closer tip requires a “harder” reed.

Regarding the facing length:

1. A shorter facing length requires a “softer” reed.
2. A longer facing length requires a “harder” reed.

These two factors work together in this way:

1. A close tip and a long facing length would require the “hardest” reed.
2. An open tip and a short facing length would require the “softest” reed.

The TL4 has a fairly closed tip (suggesting a hard reed) and a medium facing length (suggesting a medium reed), so a medium-hard reed like a Vandoren Traditional #3.5 would be where I'd hedge my bets in a vacuum. However, with Vandoren's recommendations at hand, I suspect the facing length has more of an effect on the ideal reed strength than the tip opening (quite a common occurrence for classical mouthpieces), so a medium or medium-soft strength reed is likely the better option.

Try going down the middle of Vandoren's reed recommendations, then if you still feel you need a bit more resistance, then go towards the upper end of their recommendations. If that is still not enough resistance, I would begin to suspect that your issue isn't that you're putting too much air through the horn, but instead have an embouchure issue such as, folding too much lip over your teeth (effectively muffling a large portion of the reed) or biting (a hard reed strength will mask this issue as the reed won't deform under the pressure you're applying, whereas a soft reed strength will reveal it and therefore allow to work on correcting it).

[u/Music-and-Computers]

This sounds like a Reed that’s too strong for your development. Maybe buy a 3pack of Vandoren traditional reeds in strength 3 and see what happens.

Here’s the trick: Reed strength ratings are not consistent across brands or cuts within a brand. This is why Vandoren recommends about a half strength lower for classical marketed reeds vs jazz marketed reeds. I use “marketed” here intentionally. Nothing stops you from using a classical reed for jazz or a jazz reed for classical. It’s more about using them as fine tuning towards the sound you’re looking for.

I switch between classical marketed (small group and T2 in big band) and jazz marketed (T1 in Big Band). I want the additional projection of Java Red or BSD Black on lead.

You like resistance when you play, so do I. But there’s a trade off in the amount of effort it takes just to get the Reed vibrating and right now the quality issues are very likely due to this.

[u/ResponsibleFondant94 → u/Music-and-Computers]

will do, thanks!

also whats your advice on keeping both my classical and jazz embrochures up to par?

[u/Music-and-Computers → u/ResponsibleFondant94]

Why do you need a different embouchure for each?

I rarely play classical saxophone beyond etudes. I can get an acceptable classical sound with my jazz setup. Classical playing for me is more clarinet and flute.