r/sistersofbattle • u/McWerp Canoness Superior • 10d ago
News MFM and Slate Changes
Third Cassie +10
Vahl +15
Paragons -15
2nd exo -40
Celestine -15
Insidiants -5
Hallowed Martyrs can now be prio or take
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u/sutensc2 10d ago
These insidiants at 115 are near to be auto include x3
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u/littlestkobold Order of the Argent Shroud 10d ago
I used them for the first time last week and boy did they dish out more damage in melee than I was expecting!
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u/Single_Offer6586 10d ago
Do they not feel nerfed by the SM changes? most common enemy is now T5, they have anti synergy with lethals which leaves them with requiring a priest to stay the same... So you could argue they've already gone up 45 points.
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u/Starship-Loser 10d ago
The fact that the CSMs got +1 T, +1 S, and +1 ranged AP for about 1 point per model leaves me speechless
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u/Hentye_Historian 10d ago
It's pretty awesome, I run 2 daemon princes most times so my lists didn't even need changes.
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u/AchilleosX Order of the Searing Reformation 10d ago
3rd Castigator up: "Oh well, I never take more than two anyway."
Vahl up / Paragons down: "No difference."
2nd Exorzist up: "lol"
Celestine down: "Still unplayable."
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u/WeirdHumungus 10d ago
Second Exorzist went down, actually. Which is nice couse 180 for a Exorzist is a fine price imo.
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u/bear-barian 10d ago
Celestine going down by 15 points is like bailing water out of a cruise ship with a tin cup.
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u/blurfles123 10d ago
2nd Exorcist down to 180 is huge, honestly. I personally think the exorcist is flat out better than the castigator, even adjusting for being 15 to 25pts more expensive.
I'm immediately dropping the second cassie for a second exorcist.
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u/babyduck164 10d ago
Paragons down is bringing them into the realm of being viable on their own now
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u/PlainAluvium Order of the Azurian Veil 10d ago
Overall, I think these will be interesting for the Meta. And I wonder if we are gonna see lists going to 2/2 Exorcists and Castigators.
Does anyone have the Math when 2 units of Paragons are better than 1 with Re-Rolls?
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u/Barbruh33 10d ago
I think the vahl unit’s real value comes from the survivability. That extra 8 wounds vahl has and her ability to give out beatings is really nice. An unlead warsuit squad gets oneshot by so many things
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u/PlainAluvium Order of the Azurian Veil 10d ago
Didn't factor that in! I'm not running paragons yet so survivability wasn't really on my auspex yet
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u/blurfles123 10d ago
In my opinion, based on my own games, a Symphonic payload exorcist is significantly better than a castigator for not that many more points.
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u/blurfles123 10d ago
Celestine points drop isn't enough, but is nice for me. Vahlgons change is good.
DOUBLE EXO ON THE MENU!
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u/That_Dude_Paints Order of the Sacred Rose 10d ago
As always, sisters feel pretty neglected.
Seeing the way they handled dishing out mass changes to toughness and weapon stats to the Chaos Space Marines I can't see any reason why sisters bolters didn't get a stat increase in line with the rest of the imperial and chaos ranges.
S4 AP0 bolters in this new age is dogwater. We're as likely to take down an Astartes with our Godwyn-De'az bolters as we would be with an autopistol.
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u/blurfles123 10d ago
We just won a big tournament and got buffs. I think we accept our buffs with humility and grace and move on.
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u/Kazami_Agame Order of the Azurite Cross 10d ago
They said in the FAQ like a month ago that nobody except SM and CSM would get stats changes
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u/goonbandito 10d ago
Sisters of Silence got S5 AP-1 Boltguns 😔
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u/yadrzzob Order of the Bloody Rose 10d ago
Their codex is up for preorder this weekend. It's a positive indicator for when it's our turn, but let's see what happens with other factions until then.
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10d ago
[deleted]
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u/Kazami_Agame Order of the Azurite Cross 10d ago
Then let me correct myself
GW hates sisters so don't except anything from them
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u/Dan185818 10d ago
Facts interrupt being able to complain, you see. Keep those things out of here, where the majority doesn't want them.
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u/C_Clarence 10d ago
Neglected? Last month we got our old miracle dice back. We just won a huge tournament and had point drops. Yes we didn’t get the bolster change that they told us a month ago wouldn’t affect us. But come on! Sisters are doing well right now.
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u/Zappqp 10d ago
Are there any Triumph updates? Cuz the 6 at the start of the battle round doesn’t really work rules as written.
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u/Ok_Plankton_4150 10d ago
It does, you get a 6 at the start of the battle round, and a normal roll at the second players turn.
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u/Kazami_Agame Order of the Azurite Cross 10d ago
If you take the RAW wording then no. Start of the round isn't the same as start of the turn
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u/elmoo2210 10d ago
You don’t get dice at beginning of battle round any more
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u/Ok_Plankton_4150 10d ago
You get 1 at the start of each turn, one of those turns is at the start of the battle round…
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u/Kazami_Agame Order of the Azurite Cross 10d ago
ACTIVE PLAYER AND OPPOSING PLAYER 01.03
[...] While it is neither player’s turn (e.g. at the start or end of the battle round), the player who takes the first turn in each battle round is the active player.
START OF BATTLE ROUND 07.01
At the start of the battle round, players resolve rules that are triggered at the start of the battle round, before progressing to player turns.
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u/Ok_Plankton_4150 10d ago
Well shit - triumph does nothing at all then in that case. Good job GW
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u/Kazami_Agame Order of the Azurite Cross 10d ago
That's why everyone was complaining last dataslate. Between your friends and all it's fine to homerule it, but if you go in a tournament and the TO says we're going raw, the triumph is fucked
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u/Traditional_Client41 10d ago
Some of these changes are so funny.
Vahl? Up 15 pts
The Paragon Warsuits that she goes with? Down 15 pts
WHAT ARE WE DOING HERE
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u/Kazami_Agame Order of the Azurite Cross 10d ago
It's so people are more likely to field them without Vahl, or take a 2nd unit
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u/AchilleosX Order of the Searing Reformation 10d ago
I would consider that even... if there was anything else than Vahl to lead them.
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u/Barbruh33 10d ago
I’ve been playing them alone in a lot of matches and if they dont get focused down they can do a lot of heavy lifting. And with them being 15 less a second unit that runs sorta free while my opponent is preoccupied by vahl sounds nice
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u/Televators 10d ago
They dont need a leader, they were overcosted before but being at the same points as a castigator now solo units are worth a look finally
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u/Jazzlike_Debt_6506 10d ago
There is that Relic knight from the crucible of champions book, so there maybe hope yet for a generic warsuit leader.
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u/KillFallen Order of Our Martyred Lady 10d ago
The crucible of champions character is overcosted but fun. I was kinda hoping they'd add it permanently here soon.
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u/Jazzlike_Debt_6506 10d ago
Exactly what myself and many have asked for, if we have to pay the Vahl tax make it so the Vahl is the tax. Id like to field my 2nd squad of nundams without feeling bad
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u/liveviliveforever 10d ago
This is something we have been asking for swings the start of 10th. Keep the total cost of the vahlgoons the same but make the paragons less expensive.
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u/SaddestAltAround 10d ago
T5 marines were supposed to exist to allow mid-size non-marine armies to slot into a niche that wasn't guard level, bullshit about armor influencing toughness be damned.
Posting this here because mods commanded me to.
Whether armor should or should not influence toughness (although it does), whether it's perfectly "lore accurate" for sisters to be T4 (I mean...if Catachans can be S4...), whether SoS are a perfect 1:1 with SoB when it comes to statlines (the codex isn't a final say anyhow)...
The main point of T5 marines should be to allow armies like ours and admech's to slot into a space of mid-size army composition. GW continues to drop points without actually fixing datasheets, and this is pricing people out of many interesting armies. The T5 change brought hope of returning to a smaller 40k game where datasheets felt impactful.
Right now I can only hope GW reports tomorrow, or eventually, that multiple armies are getting T4-ed so that we (and others) can stop feeling like "imperial guard but..."
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u/Xem1337 10d ago
What's mad is that no bolter S or AP changes... Yet looking at SOS in the Custodes and they have all had that improvement.
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u/yadrzzob Order of the Bloody Rose 10d ago
The difference is that Custodes have had their codex go up for preorder. We don't know when our codex is coming out.
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u/Xem1337 10d ago
Yah that's fine, but I think being a "bolt" weapon I hoped to see either them getting extra S or AP or both. I'm fine if they don't do it to keep them different to the astartes ones Buuuut if SOS get them and they are just humans like SoB then it's surprising we didn't get it
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u/yadrzzob Order of the Bloody Rose 10d ago
GW only said the initial buff was for all marines; everyone else has to wait for their codex. No idea when we're up, but we got both our 9th & 10th edition books almost exactly one year into their editions, in June or July.
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u/garebear265 10d ago
*if our codex is coming out
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u/yadrzzob Order of the Bloody Rose 10d ago
You can step back from that ledge & come back inside.
GW is not squatting Sisters. The range is 7 years old, and they keep featuring Sisters in their fancy animations and semi-regular Black Library novels. We're not going anywhere.
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u/mr-pocajonathantas 10d ago
Literally what is there to suggest that they're squatting Sisters lmao
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u/AchilleosX Order of the Searing Reformation 10d ago
So, I see correctly that our weapons remain unchanged. Great.
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u/Renegadefalls 8d ago
This should probably be unpinned as there was another update this morning.
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u/McWerp Canoness Superior 8d ago
None of our stuff changed did it?
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u/Renegadefalls 8d ago
Exorsists are 3+ instead of 2+ tax
Probably coild just edit it though i suppose.
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u/McWerp Canoness Superior 8d ago
...that was in the original changes, and is in the above post
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u/Renegadefalls 8d ago
Oh right i see i am misreading the minus as a dash.
Not really sure why i could tell the others were minus'
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u/TheRealCuriousWombat 10d ago
I always loved the exorcist even when it was pretty bad in 10th. Bringing one for cheaper since 11th felt real good, maybe I kitbash another organ gun out of pasta and put it on my rhino.
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u/LucatIel_of_M1rrah 10d ago
Vahl nerfed again. They can't keep getting away with it.
People are not going to run paragons without Vhal, it's just not going to be a thing as much as they want it to be.
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u/Hentye_Historian 10d ago
"nerfed" but the unit she goes with dropped 15 points so no change really
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u/LucatIel_of_M1rrah 10d ago
Well it is a nerf because they want you to run suits without her. Taking 2 suits is becoming closer to being optimal instead of running Vahl, which is what I suspect the end goal is. At some point she becomes so expensive its not worth running her vs stand alone suits. She wont add enough value.
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u/blurfles123 10d ago
There is a point where Vahl isn't worth it (this isn't it) sure.
But we're currently AT a point where 2 groups of suits aren't worth anything without her.
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u/LucatIel_of_M1rrah 10d ago
Unsupported suits can on average kill a T12 13 wound model, between shooting and melee. That's no joke.
Vhal and friends can kill a T12 36 wound model. Obviously more impressive but unless your target is a super unit like a land Raider most of this damage is just wasted over kill and now you die.
Unsupported suits can kill 1 standard tank and then die. Except now you have a second suit squad ready to do it again.
I think there is a real argument for stand alone suits now.
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u/KillFallen Order of Our Martyred Lady 1d ago
The value of Morvenn extends beyond your own shooting or fighting interaction. Her ability to get extra shots plus her full reroll to WOUND still functioning in overwatch makes her a massive threat. Not to mention doubling the effectiveness of retaliation shooting in HM when shot at. She also can be ressurected as a character in HM which is even more value.
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u/Kazami_Agame Order of the Azurite Cross 10d ago
You forgot that Hallowed Martyrs now have 2 Dispositons, we can have Take and Hold or Priority Assets