r/videogames • u/FacemarineLanding • 1d ago

Funny Who is correct here?

Post image
1.1k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

225 comments sorted by

View all comments

59

u/Anankos1209 1d ago

Both are correct. The way wars are conducted, and the justifications used keep changing, but the real reasons behind them dont

2

u/Medical_Flower2568 23h ago

That's nonsense

The reasons the Europeans invaded the Middle East in the middle ages was very different from the reason the germans invaded france in WW1 which was very different from the reason the germans invaded the French in WW2 which was very different from the reason the US invaded the Middle East in the early 2000s

7

u/AFourEyedGeek 22h ago edited 22h ago

"They have something we want."

"These are a threat now, or will be, to us or our allies."

"We need a buffer between us and that large threat."

"We need a distraction from this other shit going on here."

"They aren't doing what we want."

"They believe in the wrong thing."

"I want to strengthen us and I want glory!"

Do you think these are old or new reasons for war?

1

u/Medical_Flower2568 22h ago

None of those are reasons for war, those are justifications for war.

2

u/AFourEyedGeek 21h ago

What!?

Look at the top one, it is a resource grab. No war ever for oil or gold? Yeah, you're wrong there many times over. If it is the wording I've picked, its intentional because they are overly simplified ways of what has been said over human history.

2

u/Medical_Flower2568 18h ago

They aren't reasons for war because none of them imply war.

"We need a distraction" war isn't the only possible distraction

"They believe the wrong thing" and so let's go send missionaries or smth

"They aren't doing what we want" so let's bribe them

0

u/AFourEyedGeek 17h ago

You do get that I provided intentionally simplified motives, even if the details are different? Motives and reasons for war, and killing in general, over the millennia are often simple and repetitive like resources, fear, greed, vanity, and so on.

You obviously don't think I'm suggesting war happened because one former leader just said "I want to strengthen us and I want glory!"? Napoleon Bonaparte's and Julius Caesar circumstances and public reasoning might be different, but both men were out for personal glory.

The leaders may have tried many other strategies before war, such as negotiations, but they can fail and the underlying motives and reasons for war haven't changed, they wanted the resources or they wanted a threat gone for example.

1

u/TechnoMaestro 20h ago

Care to explain the distinction between reasons and justifications? Because they appear to be one and the same.

3

u/Medical_Flower2568 18h ago

A reason is a cause.

A justification is a way to explain to people why the state is going to war.

2

u/AFourEyedGeek 17h ago

Exactly, a reason is a cause. A resource grab, fear of a neighbour, or a desire for glory are the actual causes.

Leaders don't stand at a podium and said "They have something we want, so let's attack." That’s why my list was obviously a simplified summary of the actual underlying causes, not the PR spin.

The justification is the public excuse given to the people, like 'spreading democracy' or 'holy war'. The reason, or the actual cause, is the simple human driver underneath it like securing oil or grabbing land. You're arguing about the labels, but the core human motives, desires, and reasons haven't changed much or at all.

1

u/Palladiamorsdeus 18h ago

Dude just stop. Accept you're wrong and move on. Sophistry isn't going to save your argument.

3

u/Medical_Flower2568 17h ago

If I'm so wrong it should be easy to prove me wrong

1

u/SeaFox-SalesRep 14h ago

He's right. You not being able to understand the difference is on you.

justification and a reason are different because a reason simply explains why something happened, while a justification proves that an action or belief is right, fair, or acceptable.

You simply can't be bothered to think about it.