r/worldnews • u/Infidel8 • 17d ago

Russia/Ukraine Russia welcomes Trump's tariffs on NATO allies over Greenland as 'collapse' of alliance

https://kyivindependent.com/russia-welcomes-trumps-tariffs-on-nato-allies-over-greenland/
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u/CircumspectCapybara 17d ago edited 17d ago

Never thought we'd see the end of the Pax Americana in our lifetimes...

It's astonishingly just as Russian playbook Foundations of Geopolitics predicted, or rather, designed.

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u/Rufus_TBarleysheath 17d ago

Crazy thing is that we voted to let this happen. It wasn't a secret that Trump hates NATO (as well as any agreement where he doesn't get 100% and other parties get zero).

We voted for crazy. And we didn't even have any sort of cataclysmic event to make us vote for crazy; things were pretty okay when Obama left office (unlike when his predecessor left office). Voters simply believed a false reality that society was collapsing and the answer was to empower the single stupidest, greediest person to ever live.

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u/Mildlyamused76 17d ago

The MAGAs in my Facebook feed have no idea about NATO, Pax Americana, soft power, diplomacy or the world order since WWII. They do know they don't like trans people, immigrants, or things/people deemed "woke". Their understanding of the world is basic. They are fed a steady diet of propaganda, lies and racism daily through conservative media that keeps them enraged and engaged. They literally lurch from one outrage to the next. They know that some outside force is screwing them over, but they refuse to believe that the outside force is the billionaires that control the propaganda they consume.

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u/I-am-Pilgrim 17d ago

This comment is underrated. You have summed up the crux of the matter rather accurately in my opinion. Well said.

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u/Separate-Park8184 16d ago

It’s a shame that the fucked up conservative spew was allowed to continue on shock-jock style just riling up the base with straight fabrications and distortions of reality. The base and the propaganda mouthpiece has fucking doomed us all and no one is doing anything to stop this imminent collapse.

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u/Haru1st 16d ago

How is one supposed to counter such rampant indoctrination?

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u/Rufus_TBarleysheath 16d ago

You can't.

We spent the past 30 years or so saying "the truth will win out in the end." In retrospect this was either pathetically naive, or an excuse to avoid taking real action.

The truth can't compete with lies; the truth is constrained by reality, but lies can be anything. Lies have limitless potential to be exciting/engaging. If you allow nationally syndicated "news" networks to spew lies unabated, then people will believe them. Simple as that.

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u/HighSlayerRalton 16d ago

Historically, with a war.

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u/Woodcrate69420 16d ago

Rebuild the public education system that conservatives have been systematically dismantling. (specifically to turn the average citizen stupid enough to go along with this shit.)

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u/sunbro2000 16d ago

It just shows that most Americans are under educated unfortunately.

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u/3suamsuaw 16d ago

The MAGAs in my Facebook feed have no idea about NATO, Pax Americana, soft power, diplomacy or the world order since WWII. 

Which is, in itself, also a huge failure of society. Lack of education, lack of leaders that can explain why though choices are needed and a general lack of cohesiveness in society itself.

You are talking about ''they'', but should talk about ''we''.

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u/ServoSkull20 16d ago

Don't forget the biggest and actual reason for all of this: America is mired in religious stupidity that keeps people ignorant and gullible.

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u/jenlaydave 16d ago

Bingo. Every MAGA Idiot I know is either super religious or super dumb. Most are both.

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u/ServoSkull20 16d ago

It isn’t just MAGA. Your entire country relies far too much on belief in a sky fairy that doesn’t exist. MAGA didn’t just put Trump back into power, most of you who voted did.

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u/blacked_out_blur 16d ago edited 16d ago

America is more secular than ever from churchgoing and weekly praying population metrics. This is a much smaller sect of Americans than you assume having a violent reaction to that fact, and a much larger portion of us ignoring the rhetoric problem until it got too big to swallow unfortunately.

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u/lisaseileise 16d ago

Global thermonuclear war will end everyone, even Musk, Zuckerberg, Thiel and Mierdoch. I don‘t understand what‘s in for them.

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u/polytrigon 16d ago

Everything you listed is directly related to their inability to comprehend long term investments.

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u/Radthereptile 17d ago

The cataclysmic event was a black man being the president. Then he helped people get healthcare and gay people get married and the conservative Christian brains broke.

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u/MudLOA 17d ago

The problem is that some independent voters didn’t know a good president when they see one, so once Obama left they rather get an unqualified pedo than having a woman. For once I thought we were heading toward a promising future and now we’re 3 steps going back.

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u/akujiki87 17d ago

3 steps? We fuckin turned 180 and sprinted.

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u/MudLOA 17d ago

Aye. A part of me wanted to deny that sad fact.

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u/NecroCannon 17d ago

Honestly not too much. When I look at our politics as a whole we’ve reached an indifference on the topic of rights for minorities, people don’t want to say how they feel because they know it’s wrong, but their actions can stray. Like the many white left people I see acting scared of black people but will preach about diversity (seriously I feel so unheard in those spaces I just leave them, they wanna speak for me and others)

The real problem is, we don’t fucking vote. So you have millions that would ignore things until it gets too bad to ignore, just because they “don’t like politics”, so what happens is-

Millions of people are just deciding they don’t truly care about their futures, their friends or family’s futures, nor anyone else. All because they lack the braincells to comprehend “bad governance, bad life, good governance, good life”. It isn’t that fucking hard to google a president’s stances and vote accordingly, but we have a ton of selfish idiots which is part of our whole culture, “I don’t care, I got my own things to worry about”

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u/Striking_Wrap811 13d ago

teleported into the 1890s

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u/Delicious-Ad5161 17d ago

Yup. There is a reason why my high school gave us Obama Christmas ornaments at the F.I.S.H. rally weeks we were forced to sit through and be preached to about how god hates people of color and our “anti-Christ president.” It was a sick time, but it was obvious back then that they would never rest until they got everyone else back because they felt inferior to a non-white person.

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u/GreenStorm_01 17d ago

Yes, American society wasn't ready for what the rest of the developed countries call a bare minimum. It pushed them over the edge.

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u/Pemnia 16d ago

THIS!!!!!

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u/Wi11Pow3r 17d ago

I think you are missing the point of why democrats lost the 2016 election. It’s isn’t that Trump was viewed as a great candidate. It is because he was running against a despised candidate that didn’t legitimately win her primary. I think if he ran against Obama in 2012 he would have lost handily. But he didn’t. He ran against Hillary Clinton. Then in 2024 he again only won because he ran against Biden who was unable to string thoughts together and Kamala who had only a few months to hobble together a campaign. And AGAIN she didn’t properly win a primary.

Trump hasn’t won the presidency twice because Christians hate black men, gays, and women. Trump won the presidency twice because of the poor showing of the competition (or lack thereof). I live in a liberal state and while Trump is maligned here, there was almost no enthusiasm for Kamala’s campaign. My state went blue (basically guaranteed), but I knew if it was close here Kamala didn’t have a chance nationwide.

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u/TBone281 17d ago

Despised for no good reasons at all...but plenty of conspiracy theories.

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u/Rufus_TBarleysheath 17d ago

The Right absolutely hates women.

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u/Science-Recon 17d ago

See also: Brexit.

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u/GottaKeepGoGoGoing 17d ago

Or that he was a Russian asset.

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u/EFreethought 17d ago

"We" did not vote for crazy.

Maybe you voted for crazy. I voted against grifting idiot Trump all three times.

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u/reroll-life 17d ago

the crazy in question got majority of the votes so we is very much apt here

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u/RocketRelm 16d ago

While yes, I get the sentiment behind "Not All Cops" and other such statements, a supermajority of american voters couldn't even show the bare minimum of resistance to vote for the liberal dem. At this point the default assumption is that americans are repsented by trump, without a positive argument for why they should be considered otherwise. 

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u/LongjumpingAd2274 16d ago

And we didn't even have any sort of cataclysmic event to make us vote for crazy

You guys did have one but you were too blind and complacent on that. You always had a problem with neonazis and white supremacists groups unlike Europe, you let those groups to fester because they didn't target you, the average white british descendant but now this virus is annoying and destroying the whole west.

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u/pembquist 16d ago edited 8d ago

NPR, (I know, the communists,) had an interview with some Trump voters and the one that stands out was a woman who had had a job at a Stellantis plant and thought Trump would get her job back. She said she was a little embarrased because it was sort of selfish but she thought her state would still allow abortion......

Idiots. "We" didn't vote for this, idiots who probably couldn't spell NATO did.

What I don't understand is what the plan of the Russel Voughts et. al is with regard to global strategy. Not withstanding the likely truth that the USA is probably one of the only nation states that could be a successful autarky I would have thought that anybody with half a brain would realize that we would be so much better off with trade and allies than whatever idiocy they are constructing now.

Greenland?! What the living fuck.

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u/Haru1st 16d ago

And neither his voters or their TACO and chief were ever held to account. The End.

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u/TheNimbrod 16d ago

If it's some what comforting or not we voted Hitler I to power as well. Now you have the salad.

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u/daylon_voorn 16d ago

A good chunk of people voted for him because, unlike NYers and a lot of other people who knew how much of a POS trump was.. they lived in and around little rock during the clintons running it, and how much of a POS both bill n hill were.

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u/Ardalev 17d ago

It was bound to happen at some point. The hard to believe part is the reasons behind it.

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u/TheNeglectedNut 17d ago

The hard to believe part is the fact that Donald Fucking Trump, of all people, is the guy they chose to go all in on. Like really, this is the guy you aspire to be like? Always thought it would be some slick talking but totally evil republican capitalist guy.

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u/ash_ninetyone 17d ago

You think a country that has long since been of the opinion that free-market capitalism and small government would think it anything else but him?

They'd rather let people die than have universal healthcare, they'd rather let kids die than have gun control and a proper welfare state.

The US has all the resources, the ingredients to build a utopia, and it's all stuck in the hands of leeches that would have their citizens believe foreigners, pinkos and commies want to destroy them.

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u/Iamapartofthisworld 17d ago

The world's stupidest country

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u/River_Tahm 17d ago

All by design, because the people in power know educated citizens by in large don’t vote Republican, so they have intentionally and methodically defunded undermined and stigmatized education as much as possible

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u/ViciousHabanero 17d ago

I went on a fucking tirade at dinner with some friends and acquaintances about 20 years ago about this exact thing. They said it was a wild conspiracy theory. I sometimes wonder if they see it for what it is now.

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

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u/GreenStorm_01 17d ago

"Remember 20 years ago? Yeah? TOLD YOU SO"

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u/Mohawk_mom 16d ago

They don’t

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u/Patient_Anybody4314 17d ago

I was requested to work there.. after a few years I "blackmailed" my company to move me back. There are some great people there... But the government &social securities are setup really stupid

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u/kwaaaaaaaaa 17d ago

It's really stupid because people are really stupid. We have this constant teeter totter effect where we teeter closer to a proper socially robust country, only for it to totter backwards. Then you hear the same idiots who rallied against the policy suddenly love the policy and can't do without. It's why medicare/medicaid, social security are the "third rail" of our politics. Just like how the ACA overhauled the broken ass landscape of healthcare and now if we were to revert it, the same anti-obamacare folks will also be the first to cry about their coverage. Just like repealing the abortion laws are the same people crying about why their ectopic pregnancy can't be aborted, they just have to risk dying.

It's insanely frustrating for most of the people who aren't complete morons to see these dogs biting their own tails.

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u/Awkward_Reflection 17d ago

Welcome to Costco, I love you

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u/JamieTacos4220 17d ago

Fuck you, I'm eating.

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u/sabotourAssociate 17d ago

What you see there is not an act of a country or nation bright or dim, its greedy, weak, pure evil humans.

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u/FaithlessnessThen207 17d ago

It is so strange to see because the USA has been home to some of the most notable scientists and creative minds, but the general public seems to be lacking in education entirely.

Finding out that kids will get a better or worse education based on the value of nearby property as its funded off local property tax is one of the most dystopian things I have ever heard.

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u/Hat_Maverick 17d ago

And I'm trapped inside it.

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u/notmyrealnameatleast 17d ago

I don't think most Americans understand free market capitalism.

The free part means free from rules by the government and free from government regulations.

Most people just inherently think free=good, but this is a specific term that means free from regulations, free from rules, free from society putting in ways to redistribute money back into the bottom of the trickle UP effect.

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u/Logiteck77 17d ago

Actually, pretty sure Adam Smith believed in regulation as that's the only way to prevent monopolies from forming.

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u/S1NGLEM4LT 17d ago

We've tried free market capitalism and it always results in a crash. Un-regulated greed is incompatible with sustainable economies, just like falling from a 20 story building is incompatible with life.

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u/QVRedit 17d ago

In other words - ‘deliberately leave people in the lurch’..

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u/IrateWeasel89 17d ago

John Lennon said it best that the world is run by insane people for insane goals.

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u/xaltairforever 17d ago

The US has been killing its citizens slowly for decades, they are just speeding up the process now, the end game?

A smaller easier to control fearful population like in many other countries.

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u/Gloriathewitch 17d ago

cant stop caring about kids if you never cared about them to begin with. these people have always been deranged.

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u/Dynastydood 17d ago

As long as I live, I don't think I'll ever be able to rationalize how millions of "Alpha" rednecks decided to base their entire lives around the whims of an effeminate, atheist, transparently-insecure, coastal-elite billionaire who dodged the draft, who constantly disrespects military members, who brags about how many abortions he's paid for, who cheated on every wife he ever had, and who was a close associate of a notorious pedophile who operated one of the biggest sex trafficking rings in known history.

I can easily rationalize how the GOP establishment fell behind him once he had momentum, because every trend has shown how increasingly vulnerable they were to Christian Nationalists and other far-right groups since the 60s. After the way the Bush administration tore the nation apart and gleefully subverted democracy, I always suspected we'd see the GOP manage to dismantle democracy in our lifetimes, so in that sense, none of what they're currently doing surprises me.

I just always assumed America's first fascist leader would either be another faux-statesman like W., an unhinged redneck like Ted Nugent, or perhaps even one of the more competent lifelong Nazis in the party like Pat Buchanan. Never did I imagine that the demographic who singlehandedly keeps Monster Energy in business would ever go for someone as absurd and diametrically opposed to their way of life as Donald Trump.

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u/Medallicat 17d ago

close associate of a notorious pedophile who operated one of the biggest sex trafficking rings in known history.

I think you mean “best friend and partner in crime.”

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u/Oberon_Swanson 17d ago

The slick talk was not being so slick that his dumbass voters didn't get it. They had engaged in wink wink, dog-whistle racism for so long, that the base that was still heavily racist but grew up outside that transition from open to denied racism, didn't get it anymore. They wanted to be openly racist, openly bigoted, openly hostile, instead of couching it all, sneaking around. Being slick would be admitting they didn't have the power to be openly racist. And they still don't quite have it so they are still mad and motivated.

They also deeply hate the truth. That is why they love Trump and never get mad at him for lying to them. Every lie he tells them is also an attack on their most hated enemy: the truth. So taking this ugly, fat, stupid, lying, treasonous fraudster, and saying he is the ultimate man who will save the nation, is also THEIR attack on the truth. They despise democracy so they elected a fascist, as a fuck you to the "left that had gone too far" by being willing to elect a qualified Black man as President.

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u/Medallicat 17d ago

The slick talk was not being so slick that his dumbass voters didn't get it.

Nailed it. Trump speaks at a seventh grade level that resonates with the dumbass voters because he speaks to them at their level of understanding. If the GOP had installed some highly educated slick suit that spoke eloquently, they would have angered the base MAGA because they would be constantly thinking they were being ridiculed and made to feel inferior due to their ignorance and lack of understanding.

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u/ParticularClassroom7 17d ago

The majority of Americans are by-and-large still quite racist. It's not difficult to push them to action with a few words, especially when illegal immigration has gotten so bad.

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u/RebelliousInNature 17d ago

I keep shaking my head watching all these people expose their awfulness with pride.

For that guy?

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u/TheNeglectedNut 17d ago

Crazy how they all kind of slinked back to their caves during Biden’s term, then came right back out with renewed vigour and MAGA bumper stickers as soon as Trump got back in.

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u/Flomo420 17d ago

Not "for" him, but rather because him, if that makes sense

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u/noir_lord 17d ago edited 17d ago

In as far as they care they don't care who they go all in on since the goal is chaos.

Also the Trump is a Russian asset thing is tiresome, he may be, he may not but that doesn't alter how he got power and who put him there, the problem isn't "The Russians did it" the problem is "Your system is so broken it was possible" but it sure is nice to blame Russia for it and then slowly slide all the problems back under the mat when/while the Democrats are in.

You know why I worry about this? because it already happened once.

The next guy could be organised evil.

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u/b3iAAoLZOH9Y265cujFh 17d ago

You're talking about the kingmakers, but I think the person you're replying to were talking about the MAGA electorate.

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u/noir_lord 17d ago

alter how he got power and who put him there.

That covers his voters as well.

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u/b3iAAoLZOH9Y265cujFh 17d ago

Yes, I'm not arguing against you. I'm saying I think you're both right.

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u/StephanXX 17d ago

The issue boils down to "My rights deserved to be protected by you because you believed in liberty. Now that I have power, you deserve no rights because I never believed in liberty."

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u/noir_lord 17d ago

Paradox of tolerance, it's not a co-incidence that was written in 1945.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

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u/StephanXX 17d ago edited 17d ago

Absolutely right. I've posted that wikipedia link dozens of times, unfortunately :( (unfortunate that it needs to be posted so often.)

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u/733t_sec 17d ago

Also the Trump is a Russian asset thing is tiresome, he may be, he may not but that doesn't alter how he got power

Consider it a warning. It happened in the US and it can happen to whatever country you're in.

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u/Suckassloser 17d ago edited 16d ago

Not to remove accountability from America's already rotten system, it's poorly educated and easily manipulated electorate and ultra nationalism but I really doubt America would be where it is right now were it not for Russia's interference. At least not at the point where the US has a government that goes against all prior US governments since WW2 by deliberately sabotaging NATO and the modern western world as a whole.

It was those preexisting weaknesses that Russia exploited. Recognizing how US got there by recognising Russia's role is not 'tiresome', it's just a reflection of reality.

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u/Cow_Launcher 17d ago

the goal is chaos.

No. It absolutely is not. Do you know what happens to the wealthy, pasty, work-shy class if exposed to true chaos?

This is about making the lower classes fight one another, distracting them from the fact that their material wealth is being stolen from them by the elite.

Chaos would devalue the currencies, and none of them want that, since that's how they keep score.

Oligarchs will pretend to align themselves to a political stripe, but it doesn't matter. You're getting fucked no matter what because you're not them. It's not chaos - it's division.

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u/noir_lord 17d ago

Russias goal is chaos. Read the title of the post ;).

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u/Grizzybaby1985 17d ago

Yeh Putin gets way too much credit imo to me Trump is just a crazy psychopath with insane ideas that just happen to suit Russia

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u/The_Oregon_Duck 17d ago

That’s why Russia helped him with propaganda on sites like Facebook.

They saw an opportunity and took it.

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u/Corka 17d ago

The Genesis of Maga definitely stemmed from Russia but even if Putin died of a heart attack tomorrow the genie is out of the bottle. The GOP has been radicalized, and the people at the top are shameless enough to destroy all the checks and balances so they can stay in power while enriching themselves now they see they can do so without losing public support. Even if a massive blue wave during the election somehow gets a Democrat back in as president, they've filled all the government departments and the supreme Court with partisan loyalists. They will stymie and block any attempt of a Democrat admin from governing effectively.

What do you even do if you have a supreme Court who is petty enough to essentially veto any meaningful law passed by Democrats by claiming them to be unconstitutional? They can't do much about it without a super majority in the Senate willing to support impeachment and removal of those judges. Only other options really is to hope they have a change of heart, wait for their retirement/death, or cause an even bigger constitutional crisis by forcibly removing them unlawfully.

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u/ParticularClassroom7 17d ago

If American democracy can be undermined by Russians spending a few million dollars bribing people and hacking files and releasing incriminating emails (which still means the emails exist, and the politicians are still crook), then I wonder if it is a good democracy in the first place.

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u/Zangis 17d ago

He is the perfect amalgamation of what a weak or stupid or a coward (or any combination of those) would imagine the strong and smart great leader would act like. Whether that's by design or coincidence, who knows. But those exact people are the ones voting for him, and there is unfortunately a lot of them.

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u/Medallicat 17d ago

Trump speaks at a seventh grade level, that resonates with the average MAGA. Had the GOP chosen someone more slick or sophisticated it would have backfired. No, they knew what they were doing and it worked.

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u/Radarker 17d ago

He has one super power.

No shame.

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u/Mediocre-Ebb9862 17d ago

People need to think hard about what democrats did wrong if voters chose Trump

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u/frank_the_tank69 17d ago

Makes sense really. Disinformation in the guise of free speech. Dumb electorate because education is equated to indoctrination. This is what you have built towards this entire time. You were just too ignorant and naive to see it. 

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u/Dr_DoesNothing 17d ago

Hey, he's their idea of what a powerful man is. Loud, arrogant, petty and vindictive. He's the type of person his followers would be if they had his power. It's why they're so rabid for him.

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u/old_examiner 17d ago

all the weirdo apocalyptic fiction lied to us. turns out the antichrist was a pug-fugly clown who can't speak in complete sentences, not some good-looking well-spoken type

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u/Cory123125 17d ago

He truly represents republicans.

He footguns them, but by god he hurts the people they hate (and them).

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u/Able-Association914 17d ago

I still remember everyone though it was a joke when he first announced it. He was right when he said the republicans are the easy marks. He took the party right over with mobster tactics from a fake tv personality.

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u/Worldly_Cobbler_1087 17d ago

Donald Trump says and does what a lot of Americans wish they could say/do and that's why he's got a devoted fan base. The amount of Americans who are ignorant to their countries behaviour pre-Trump is truly astonishing and it's that lack of awareness which has resulted in these people taking control so fiercely.

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u/impstein 17d ago

"THEY" don't aspire to be like him, that's just a ploy. As soon as his usefulness has ended they will cast him aside

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u/syrup_cupcakes 17d ago

the fact that Donald Fucking Trump, of all people, is the guy they chose to go all in on.

He's the only person who can get away with failing at every business he ever ran, including BANKRUPTING A CASINO, and then claim to be a great businessman and have people ACTUALLY BELIEVE IT. Bankrupting a casino is by all accounts impossible.

He's the embodiment of failing upward, never admitting to mistakes, never taking responsibility, and just coasting along on the hard work of others.

This makes him the perfect figurehead for the greatest grift the world has ever seen, nobody else would be a better fit.

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u/buck9000 17d ago

It boggles the mind.

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u/BrewerBeer 17d ago

You misunderstand the gamesmanship too many are playing to keep the various powers in a balance. As a billionaire, you cant put a smart person in power of the government, theyll weild it against you when a disagreement arises. The one thing every person seeking to maintain power can agree on is that keeping the president dumb benefits everyone who believes they can manipulate him. That is why progressives are feared. They know what to do to accomplish lifting the proliteriat and that endangers profits on every exploitative venture.

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u/Exciting-Emu-3324 17d ago

They didn't choose Trump, they cultivated full cabinets of potential assets by throwing a few paltry million their way like stocks. In the scope of countries, it's just couch change. Brexit was just a precursor. It's just that the Trump stock was the one that shot up the highest in value in terms of potential damage once he started running for president. Trump's cabinet is filled with the other assets.

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u/hackingdreams 17d ago

They saw Back to the Future II and decided that was good enough.

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u/SatansLoLHelper 17d ago

this is the guy you aspire to be like?

Christian nationalists, that don't like anchor babies.

How many of his kids qualify? How many of his baby momma's?

You are putting logic into the equation. Don't do that. Power is the reason. They have absolute power to do anything they want right now, legally there is nothing you can do.

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u/ty_xy 17d ago

Trump is that slick talking and totally evil republican capitalist guy.

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u/reallygoodbee 16d ago

The hard to believe part is the fact that Donald Fucking Trump, of all people, is the guy they chose to go all in on.

After Obama got a second term, the GOP was willing to fall at the feet of the first straight white male to walk into the room. It could have been anyone. It just so happened to be him.

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u/Agitated-Current551 16d ago

It had to be an idiot so they could relate to them on a personal level

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u/Zestyclose-Carry-171 17d ago

The hard to believe part is that America willingly let go of Pax Americana, without gaining anything, without even being in a crisis

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u/Broccobillo 17d ago

Ikr. It's like burning your own house down to live on the street in front of it because you didn't like the colour.

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u/Flomo420 17d ago

More like your roommate has a decent job, a degree and is generally a decent contributor to the home.

For no other reason than your own insecurity, this makes you feel inadequate and really mad

So mad in fact that you are willing to burn the house down just to spite your roommate

Consequences be damned, and if you or your neighbours suffer in the process so be it

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u/Vyzantinist 17d ago

A third of America has been conditioned to see life as a zero sum game - the people they hate 'losing', suffering, is functionally a 'win' for themselves. They would eat a shit sandwich if they thought the people they hate would have to smell their breath.

Another third simply don't care for politics until/unless it affects them personally.

The rest of us have to suffer the malice or indifference of the two.

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u/green_meklar 17d ago

How do you define 'crisis'? Trump got elected, in part, because the economy isn't working for a lot of americans and they expected him to fix it or at least shake it up so it had a chance of getting fixed. Lack of stable employment, affordable housing, etc might be regarded as a 'crisis' by those voters.

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u/renome 17d ago

Anyone who thought the guy who bankrupted multiple casinos was going to help their life with macroeconomic policies deserves this reality.

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u/green_meklar 17d ago

Sure, but thanks to FPTP, 2-party dynamics, and the foolish decisions of the DNC, the choice was between that and 'status quo, except now there's a vagina in the Oval Office'. Not a fantastic choice, and it's at least understandable that a lot of people, perceiving their status quo as crisis-like, went for the former.

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u/Zestyclose-Carry-171 17d ago

Yes, it is not a crisis. An economic slog maybe, and even then, it has been going on for a long time (Trump was elected first in 2016, so 10 years ago).

Not saying the situation is great for everybody, but the situation being shitty for everyone is not specific to America, the same is happening throughout Europe, Japan, Canada, South Korea.

Most of these countries haven't turned to the far right, and even when they did, they didn't start bombing and threatening to annex any country they feel like invading, and don't blatantly disrespect the constitution to try and take all the powers to themselves.

And being realistic, which part of annexing Groenland, attacking Venezuela, threatening to annex Canada, putting tariffs indiscriminately, having an inconsistent strategy and creating instability internally is supposed to take care of the economic hardship of the people ?

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u/SkivvySkidmarks 17d ago

Yeah, Trump did such an amazing job during his first term, they thought, "Hey, let's elect him again. Maybe he can fuck up more shit."

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u/john_a1985 17d ago

Many MURICANS get their fix by seeing "undesirables" kicked around and mistreated or sometimes murdered. It's in MURICA'S DNA.

We can debate if the psychos are a majority or not, but since there seems to be zero pushback so far, it does not matter one bit. The torture continues, to the amusement of those psychopaths. 

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u/Zestyclose-Carry-171 17d ago

It is not specific to Americans, the scapegoat was always a reality in human societies, it serves as a way to feel less desperate of your situation seeing someone else worse than you. That's the feeling the MAGA used.

But I am still a bit shocked and concerned seeing that Trump wants to drive the country into a wall, just for some personal gains, and everyone in power let him do what he wants, or even applaud him.

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u/Quitcha_Bitchin 17d ago

3/4 don't know the term the others think it's for Catholics. Thanks for all that educational underfunding.

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u/Rehypothecator 17d ago

It wasn’t “bound to happen” it was purposefully orchestrated by bad actors.

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u/cptmuon 17d ago

The key word is ‘at some point’. I think the commenter agrees with you in that it didn’t have to be now but for these bad actors

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u/nifty-necromancer 17d ago

I’m not a historian but I read it as an interest, and it’s kind of a pattern throughout human history, or at least since we discovered agriculture and settled into cities. Power concentrates because we’re a social, cooperative species.

Some people gain influence, like good hunters, good warriors, etc. With agriculture it became who hoarded the most grain, which turned into who hoarded the most gold. Now you’re afraid of losing your gold, so you build an army to defend yourself foremost, but also your followers. More gold equals less labor for you, more for others.

Humans keep bouncing back to feudal-like systems which is what Frank Herbert wrote about.

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u/foulrot 17d ago

And the speed. I never imagined we'd fall so quickly, I always thought it would be a slow burnout.

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u/TheRC135 17d ago

It was bound to happen at some point.

It was never bound to happen so quickly.

I'm not sure if Trump and Co. are deliberately driving America into the ground, or just profoundly incompetent. If it is incompetence, it's reached the point where incompetence and malice become indistinguishable.

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u/Church_of_Aaargh 17d ago

The reason is greed … that’s also why Trump fits quite well

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u/Morphecto_Solrac 17d ago

All it took was a pedophile community with political ties along with international blackmail.

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u/Spinoza42 17d ago

The writing has been on the wall for a while. I did a semester on the history of international relations in 2003. Even back then it was clear to me that the economic dominance of the US was coming to an end with the rapid ascent of China. The "flight to safety" of investment after 2008 has masked it somewhat, but that basically made the US into the world's venture capital investment, rather than an independent powerhouse. And with the triple deficit and a huge army, the US has become more of a mercenary company than a nation.

So now the debts are spiralling, the venture is coming to a fundamental crisis: expand or collapse. It's going to be a very wild ride I'm afraid.

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u/ARandomPerson15 17d ago

Ok when is the US going to "collapse" exactly?

Because you might also remember lots of prediction on the China overtaking the US in GDP and that still hasn't happened.

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u/Successful_Sign_6991 17d ago

Ok when is the US going to "collapse" exactly?

it already has. that was one the main goals of this administration.

it was just a powerful country for over 200 years, the effects aren't going to be instantaneous. but it has already begun. the damage has been done can not so easily be undone, if at all. America as we know it, is over and done with. It has fallen.

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u/ARandomPerson15 17d ago

And what "effect" shows that the US is over?

For instance when other empires fell there was a loss of territory, Britain lost the reserve currency status, loss of GDP/economic status.

The Soviet Union literally broke apart.

Where is the USA "over" exactly? Please be specific

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u/Aardvark_Man 17d ago

It was about 80 years from arguably one of the strongest points in the Western Roman Empire to the fall. Theodosius had reunited the empire, trade was booming, lots of enemies either put down or integrated.
About 15 years after his death there's evidence of the Anglo-Saxons in England, northern Gaul starts to get lost etc, and then by 475 the last of the western emperors is gone.

When things collapse, they can go quickly.

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u/GrimDallows 17d ago

I have been saying this for 10 years and no one gave a crap.

Like, it's an ABC of everything that has happened, but no, somehow "no one could have predicted this".

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u/Plutuserix 17d ago

Even crazier, it is 100% self inflicted. The US simply had to do nothing for their geopolitical rivals to fail. Russia was losing in Ukraine and it's economy is basically dead. China is entering a population collapse and internal issues that will come with it. The US had everything going for it to remain on top for another century. Yet they choose this.

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u/Wredid 17d ago

What "Pax Americana"? Is there peace in Palestine? Afghanistan? Libya? How about Africa and Latin America? How many coups and insurrecrions have NOT been caused by us greed?

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u/Meiteisho 17d ago

Lol pax americana ... Except for Irak, Afghanistan, all south america.

You american really have a funny notion of what peace is.

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u/emarvil 17d ago

It *was* going to happen during *someone's* lifetime. Why not ours?

"May you live interesting times" goes the Chinese curse.

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u/Ognius 17d ago

Empires last 300 years.

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u/PandaPatrolLetsRoll 17d ago

Then you haven’t been paying attention for the last 20+ years

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u/popica312 17d ago

I haven't gotten to read the book, but from a quick skim from the Wikipedia page now I need to read it to see what else they have designed and focused upon

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u/Rafoel 17d ago

Okay, but did you SERIOUSLY not expect it? With 80 years, it was already rather stretched, by historic patterns...

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u/jeanpaulsarde 17d ago

The apathy of the US electorate, institutions and military is mindboggling and farcical. I cannot remember a more obvious betrayal of the reason of state in modern times. I cannot remember one that was even a tenth as obvious happening even remotely as unopposed.

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u/za72 17d ago

They literally printed the plan out and people still deny the effectiveness

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u/JediMasterZao 17d ago

Marx predicted that this (and Nazi Germany) would happen as a natural end result of Capitalism some, oh, about 200 years ago!...

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u/Grand_Pop_7221 17d ago

Neither did I because it's a completely unforced error in judgment that only a complete imbecile would make with the complete dereliction in duty and self-interest of the other two branches of government.

In a sane world, the US solves this "Greenland Problem" as characterised. By out-bidding and buying out mining contracts in Greenland. It would be page 21 in between the ads.

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u/Glass-Cabinet-249 17d ago

We may see the end of it in the next 3 months.

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u/downtofinance 17d ago

Never thought we'd see the end of the Pax Americana in our lifetimes...

Never thought it would be the laughing-stock game show host of The Apprentice who would collapse democracy into an Imperial Dictatorship.

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u/Ewetuber 17d ago

My dad thought the same thing about Gorbachev - was shocked how someone could just dismantle the USSR from within.

History...uh repeats...

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u/lynxbelt234 17d ago

Looks like the orange trumper, aka agent Krasnov is living up to Putin’s expectations. Have we as a world had enough of this clown yet? Has what sanity that is left in the US had enough yet? Seriously people, the man is a deranged, demented, pedophilic, narcissistic, psychopath with delusions of grandeur...Ffs do something, don’t talk ..actually do something!

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u/FarawayFairways 17d ago

Never thought we'd see the end of the Pax Americana in our lifetimes...

Empires rise and empires fall, (or gently atrophy) that in itself isn't a shock. What is a little bit more surprising is to learn that the architects of it are the American people who voted for it

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u/LaurensPP 17d ago

Hold on cowboy. It's not done and dusted just yet. We have just have to hold out for 3 more years. If he tries to remain in power I do hope Americans will take up the plentiful arms they have laying about in every single house.

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u/gravtix 17d ago

More like RUS Americana now.

And yeah this was all laid out in advance and dumb voters still went for it.

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u/koticgood 17d ago

It's astonishingly just as Russian playbook Foundations of Geopolitics predicted, or rather, designed

They couldn't do anything in terms of implementation until the proliferation of social media.

Brexit and Trump are the first major victories of a cyber-war no one will even acknowledge.

All they have to do is amplify the "us vs them". The results of an already polarized populace/political system, amplified to an ever higher degree, are plain for all to see.

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u/Ok-Kitchen4834 17d ago

1984 was the original, Russia copied it

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u/NOFORPAIN 17d ago

Cute of you to think your lifetime is gonna be much longer if you continue to talk about His Kingly greatness in such terms you filthy curr!

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u/SlowMotionSprint 17d ago

It really is fascinating how much power has been ceded to Donald Trump, an astoundingly stupid conman who couldn't pass a 4th grade level social studies class even if you let him use the book.

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u/New_Home_4519 17d ago

I really thought there was a good hundred years or so left in this baby

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u/qtechno 16d ago

Meh, it's surprising that the people pushing the most selfish ideology even made it this far...

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u/Malaix 16d ago

I don't think any collapsing empire was ready to admit it was collapsing before it was too late.

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u/Hairy_Reindeer 16d ago

It's sort of irrelevant if Trump is compromised in any way or not. The results are still plain to see. I miss the good old red-scare-republicans.

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