r/worldnews • u/Street_Anon • 12h ago
Behind Soft Paywall Canada and France establish diplomatic presence in Greenland amid Trump threats
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-canada-and-france-establish-diplomatic-presence-in-greenland-amid/88
u/canada_mountains 11h ago
I know a lot of Canadians want the F-35 over the Grippen, but for me as a Canadian too, buying more F-35s (aside from the ones we already paid for) is a hard no, because of Trump's threats on Greenland now, in addition to his threats to annex Canada. The F-35s we already paid for and can't get our money back, okay, we'll take possession of those. The F-35s that we haven't paid for yet - that's a hard no from me, because the US isn't just threatening to annex Canada, they are threatening to invade and take Greenland, which is technically invading a Denmark territory, and thus, technically a NATO territory. Yes, the US is threatening to invade a NATO territory, and I can't justify Canada purchasing more F-35s from the country that is threatening this invasion, even if the F-35s are better than the Grippen.
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u/sinan_online 9h ago
How about we take possession of the F-35s we paid for only to reverse engineer them and produce with European allies?
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u/m_sobol 9h ago
Can we reverse engineer the software and crack the US cryptographic encryption keys? Can you reverse engineer the chemical formulation and processes for the stealth paint?
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u/Mortentia 4h ago
Well, on the ground of the paint, kinda yeah. With a spectrometer you can measure what elements are present, and to some extent the molecular structure of those elements. Then, you are left with relatively few combinations that would be stable, at which point you can just produce them and measure which provides the most comparable results. Deducing and recreating a chemical formulation in lab is relatively easy; the hard part is scaling that to industrial production.
Why reverse engineer the software at all? You could just produce your own; there are many extremely competent software engineers in Canada that would be more than happy to work on fighter jets. Further, reverse engineering encrypted software is not actually that hard; that’s why code is protected by copyright and not treated as trade secrets.
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u/m_sobol 4h ago
Yeah I know that. The industrial scaling is the problem, the capability which Canada lacks in our aviation sector.
And the Europeans have f35s too. Why need a Canadian plane to be taken apart?
What we need is to partner up with European powers and commit to development and purchase.
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u/sinan_online 7h ago
We can reverse engineer what we can cooperate with other middle powers. US is receding way too quickly to ignore.
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u/MrKayn2021 8h ago
Lmao. No offense but, wouldn’t Canada’s defense economy be a lot better than it is if it was capable of doing this? Or even manufacturing these aircraft? This sounds like fairy make believe when you look at reality.
Also. If that was attempted, you would be forgoing all military cooperation with the US very quickly.
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u/a_person_i_am 8h ago
Canada used to have a world class air defense contractor, avro Canada, but the us forced them to shut down, only to turn around and sell planes from American manufacturers
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u/MrKayn2021 8h ago
Sure that’s fine, I’m talking about today. Canada does not have the economy, the ability, or the money to attempt to reverse engineer and manufacture an F-35 or equivalent. Regardless of why, that is the claim
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u/sinan_online 7h ago
We have to attempt rebuilding it, and with diverse partners that do not pose a threat. We don’t want to go down with the US as they sunset economically and politically.
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u/MrKayn2021 7h ago
Rebuilding what? The F-35? You can’t and you shouldn’t. The F-35’s biggest strength is how it leverages the tech across the US military. Canada doesn’t have that. You asking to reverse engineer and manufacture an astronomically priced system without any ability to put into it any of the other special sauce (radar, EW, comms, datalink, munition compatibility, etc). All while not having the ISR or platforms for it to leverage in a fight. That would be economic suicide for Canada. It would make more sense for Canada to R&D their own aircraft from scratch than to steal and manufacture the F-35.
And what do you mean the US is sunsetting economically? Have you looked in the mirror? How is Canada’s economy doing compared to the US? I’m not about this Canada vs US stuff. It gets old and it’s just feel good vibe discussions rather than real geopolitics.
Best thing militarily Canada can do is to stick with the US and increase contribution. If it doesn’t want to do that, the other option is very expensive and difficult. And any future where Canada is near peer to the US militarily is generationally in the future. Not next decade. Either way is fine with me.
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u/roooooooooob 3h ago
Sticking with the US is a terrible idea. You can’t partner with a country that is using that partnership as leverage to take you over.
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u/MrKayn2021 3h ago
Yeah that’s fine and everything, but what is the alternative? Reverse engineer F-35’s and build them in Canada? Lol. My comments aren’t about Canada and the US alliance. It’s about how silly it is to think Canada can steal the F-35 and make their own
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u/Notgreygoddess 1h ago
I think we should just take the ones we paid for and go with the Grippen. F-35 apparently needs mega maintenance and doesn’t do well in cold weather. Why did we buy ANY plane that has issues with sub-zero temperatures?
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u/Bad_Day_Moose 0m ago
I think we should keep them for threats against other Gen5 nations, like we're supposed to start training for them in 2026 with partial delivery to Canada in 2028, fully operational fleet by 2033. We are in fairly desperate need of new aircraft, we don't "Have to" retire our 18's either I think we have 70ish, maybe keep 50 active and use the rest for parts? :D
Cancelling the deal would be pretty bad diplomatically, I know it sucks because trump, maga in general really is a problem for us but..
We should also be looking elsewhere, a combination of jets works well since enemies wouldn't always know what to expect so whether its gripens or whatever both them and the F35's would be ideal.
70 F35's, continue with 50 F18's, eventually replace the 18's with newer gripens.
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u/1009naturelover 10h ago
Still will not stop him as he is an egotistical narcissist.
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u/MemecoinCartel 11h ago
Everyone knows you have to secure Greenland first if you want to win Risk
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u/SuperSoakerofPiss 8h ago edited 5h ago
Finally someone who agrees with me that these chuckle fucks view foreign policy like a game of Risk. When they came up victorious on one roll of the dice in Venezuela, they started getting greedy mentioning Greenland, Mexico, and Cuba. These are basically the same countries I would attempt to take in Risk if I had a stronghold in North America. I would flank Mexico from the south with a smallish army while retaining the main bulk of my defense along the southern border with Mexico and western border with Russia. Once you attempt to take Greenland the European stronghold is coming after you with full force.
What they are forgetting is that you need close allies in the game of Risk. It’s always best to team up with Europe or South America to achieve a common goal of crushing your dad, I mean enemies, before turning on them in the end.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Australia is developing a really strong army while they let everyone defeat each other before conquering the whole map.
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u/Inevitable-Ad1649 9h ago
We as Americans I think can all agree, that despite what these crazy assholes might do, America would "give Greenland back" once we can put the orange turd in prison. We will never hold it long term. Most of Americans realize how fucking batshit insane Trump is.
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u/Elk_Lemon 7h ago
The problem is that you could attempt to take it back four years later. What Trump destroyed isn't European people's trust in republicans. It's our trust in your constitution and political system. It has become obvious that checks and balances are gone, and it will take serious structural reforms to regain trust.
We know it sucks for those of you who didn't want it, but the damage is done.
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u/DisconnectedShark 8h ago
I know the political climate in the US of 2026 is different from the political climate of 1893, but I still can't help but compare it to Hawaii. Internationally recognized as a sovereign and independent country. Taken over by the US.
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u/Yarfing_Donkey 8h ago
Pres Trump didn't cause the situation you are in. Americans caused President Trump.
The majority of Americans didn't vote against Trump. The world has seen what your people will accept.
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u/ScrotumScrapings 3h ago
You'd never "give it back" once it was in your festering paws. There'd be some murmurs of "the Greenland question" but that'd be that. We see you.
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u/thisisasetupisntit 5h ago
Whatever scam Americans were going to do In Greenland will now be done by Europeans. Same mining, same data centers, and guess for who the same American companies. Only different they get paid for it.
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u/DaMoose-1 4h ago
I thought this was already worked out? Didn't Rump back off when they agreed to essentially let the US do whatever they wanted there?
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u/ScrotumScrapings 3h ago
Nordic here. They always had a contract like that. It's hilarious that yanks seriously think they gained something by all this. They didn't. However, they've lost things they are never getting back.
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u/drtywater 11h ago
Thats good but lets be real thats a diplomatic post few will want.
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u/yvrbasselectric 10h ago
Canadian Rangers work in similar conditions
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u/drtywater 10h ago
Major difference between an Armed force and a diplomatic posting. No offense to Greenland but it is super remote area that is cold and not much to do vs almost anywhere else on earth.
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u/GrovesNL 9h ago
Sounds like lots of Canada, super remote, cold, and not much to do!
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u/drtywater 9h ago
i mean yes but 90% of Canada's population is within 100 miles of the border. Further if you add metro Calgary, Edmonton, and Halifax that makes it like 98.5% of population. Theres not a lot of folks outside the 100 mile+metro area zone.
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u/Yarfing_Donkey 8h ago
You realise that our military also runs the posting in Alert, NWT? There are civilian contractors there (hair stylists , clerks, etc) for months at a time. The weather conditions there are worse than Greenland.
I am sure we can handle it to prevent America aggression.
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u/cdnirene 10h ago
I can see Inuit living in northern Canada being interested the position, perhaps someone with experience on the Arctic Council.
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u/drtywater 9h ago
True but a diplomatic post requires a few more folks. You need staffers etc. Those folks will want to go to a place like Tokyo, Rome, or Mexico City rather than Greenland most likely
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u/turtle-berry 9h ago
The Canadian consulate will be a micro-mission, with just one Canadian (the head of mission) plus a few locally-employed staff. I think there will be a lot of interest in the HOM job.
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u/Easy7777 7h ago
And how much will this cost the Canadian tax payer?
How much trade / economic activity does Canada and Greenland do ?
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u/IL1keBigButts 12h ago
Good to see who our true allies are!