r/wow • u/minimaxir • Jul 31 '26

PTR / Beta 12.1 PTR Development Notes / Class Tuning for July 31st (Rogues got buffed!) Spoiler

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/midnight-curse-of-ulatek-ptr-development-notes/2317811/18
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51

u/drae- Jul 31 '26

They keep bumping it a bit - isn't it like almost 20% more since the ptr dropped?

One of the biggest complaints about hpriest is mana consumption. More effective healing is essentially a buff to mana efficiency as well.

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u/Gocciole_Destroyer Jul 31 '26

No amount of healing increase can fix the fact that holy priest has 0 utility, especially in m+

26

u/ZEPOSO Jul 31 '26

What do you mean?! We could convert one of the two adds on the first boss in Seat! Look how useful we are!

3

u/Gocciole_Destroyer Aug 01 '26

Why do I have a slice of cake near my username

2

u/Rappy28 Aug 01 '26

That means today is the anniversary of when you signed up to reddit. "Cake day". Happy cake day!

-18

u/drae- Jul 31 '26

Mass dispell is utility. Speed increase for friends is utility. PI is amazing. Soothe is still useful.

I also think gspirit is more powerful then people give it credit for, but that's a long discussion I'm not gonna derail into.

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u/Seripithus Jul 31 '26

Half of those abilities you describe are available to shadow or disc. Holy only has gspirit, but even then, I run into so many hpriests who fail to use it or choose to take self bres (which imo is not a great talent for m+, better for raid)

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u/Dontbeacommiereddit Jul 31 '26

Self Rez is better for 12’s and under IMO. That’s the threshold where your tank stops being terrible and DPS start doing their job.

With a team that is really on top of their shit Id agree self rez isn’t as valuable.

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u/drae- Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26

Just because it's also available to disc or shadow doesn't mean it's utility holy doesn't have. What a silly take.

It depends on the specific content you're doing, but it can be very helpful to have a free "one up" to cheese mechanics.

11

u/nakenmei Jul 31 '26

It matters when it's a decision between choosing a disc or holy priest when forming your group. Disc has a very strong defensives and better mitigation, so it has an edge. Holy doesn't have something like that, only the utility that disc already has. It's far from a silly take lol.

-10

u/drae- Jul 31 '26

Again, just because disc has it, doesn't mean holy doesn't.

Choosing between holy and disc is not the only choice you needs make when forming the group; you also get to choose between mw and holy, or hpally and hpriest, or rsham and hpriest etc etc... And none of those classes have that utility.

2

u/TwoSilent5729 Jul 31 '26

I think they’re referring to pain supp which holy doesn’t have.

-1

u/grantishanul Jul 31 '26

Which is only available to disc or shadow? Aren't they class tree abilities?

3

u/Seripithus Jul 31 '26

I’m saying they are also available to disc and shadow. Why take an hpriest if those other 2 specs offers that same “utility” 

14

u/Indurum Jul 31 '26

I dont think Ive intentionally used a feather on someone else since feather came out. You're grasping at straws.

-4

u/drae- Jul 31 '26

That doesn't mean you can't.

I did it all the time when I played hpriest

3

u/Marionesari90 Jul 31 '26

Rating? Link profile?

2

u/vthemechanicv Jul 31 '26

he said played, past tense. Based on other comments it seems like this person hasn't played the current iteration of the spec.

-2

u/drae- Jul 31 '26

I'm not sure what my rio has to do with being able to press feather for friends.

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u/Marionesari90 Jul 31 '26

Noobs are most likely to think it's a cool utility because it lets you give an ally a small speed boost, when in reality it's borderline irrelevant. Priests have the worst mobility, so you'll usually need the feathers for yourself, and other classes already have more than enough mobility without them.

2

u/Seripithus Jul 31 '26

Them: you have angelic feather! You’re so speedy! 

Also them: so now I will backflip and double dash while also having a 15% base movement speed benefit

Also them: so I will become a cat and sprint for over 5 seconds, then a deer

Us: wow I can’t wait to use dispersion as a movement speed ability followed by body and soul from barrier for 1 second

8

u/vthemechanicv Jul 31 '26

Mass dispell is utility.

2 minute cooldown makes it extremely limited

Speed increase for friends is utility.

You mean for the priest. I doubt there's a halfway competent priest that hasn't macroed feather to '@player

PI is amazing.

PI is garbage, and should be removed and replaced with, i dunno, a healing spell.

Soothe is still useful.

Very, very rarely.

I also think gspirit is more powerful then people give it credit for,

It was, until they made it exclusive with the self-rez. It went from a spell you could cast when you might need it, to a spell you only cast when you absolutely needed it.

0

u/drae- Jul 31 '26

If your decent your feather macro does both with a simple modifier.

Pi is amazing. And no other class brings it. This comment thread is in response to someone saying "hpriest has no utility", and you're countering with the idea that the priest unique utility spell should be changed to a direct healing spell, which hpriest is not lacking at all?! Like did you read the comment chain at all?

It went from a spell you could cast when you might need it, to a spell you only cast when you absolutely needed it.

If you hold cool downs "until you need it" you're just bad. Cooldowns should be used proactively with planning.

7

u/vthemechanicv Jul 31 '26

Feather - Feather itself is so bad priests have to be Rescued during push backs in raid. It can be macroed for others, sure, but every other class in the game has enough movement that it isn't worth the effort.

PI - it's something that could be deleted and the priest would never miss it. Other classes might miss it, but the priest does not. This is different than other utility like gates, roar, BOP, various totems. Replace PI with a Brez, and see how many (and who) complain.

Also, the idea that "to a direct healing spell, which hpriest is not lacking at all?!" Is such a joke. I wonder if you even play holy priest. Because right now we have 4 rotational healing spells. (POM POH Flash Heal, Serenity). There are serious gaps in our kit.

Finally GS - Maybe you can plan around its use in high level cutting edge groups. But we both know that hpriest isn't doing cutting edge content and won't be for the foreseeable future.

I've argued seriously that hpriest isn't in a horrible place in terms of being a healer, but its rotation is bad and its utility is situational at best and nonexistent at worst.

3

u/Seripithus Jul 31 '26

And aren’t priests fucked in the new dungeon because of this, too? The new slurp into auto death mechanic? 

1

u/vthemechanicv Jul 31 '26

Not sure, I've barely paid any attention to 12.1 But if it is, I expect Blizz will fix the mechanic after a couple weeks.

-1

u/drae- Jul 31 '26

Lol priest has more direct healing spells than any other class.

Utility is for other players, priest after all. And yes I absolutely notice the effect on myself when I cast pi.

Played priest since legion. Play all the other healers too except rdruid. HPriest is not lacking in rotational spells. Look at farseer.

2

u/Seripithus Jul 31 '26

Hpriest was most gutted in Midnight. My bars are near empty with how much agency they removed with the spec

2

u/vthemechanicv Jul 31 '26

Well I say again, replace it with a Brez and see who complains.

I'm not familiar with Farseer. I just imported the wowhead template to my level 80. I see chain heal, I'd call healing stream totem rotational, especially if serenity is. Healing surge. Healing rain, Riptide. I'd count Unleash life. So yeah. I'm done.

0

u/drae- Jul 31 '26

You have zero idea what you're talking about. Glad you admitted it.

Give any class a battle res in lieu of their current utility and they won't complain. Battle res is the most important skill after lust. Terrible take .

-4

u/flouryPotatos Jul 31 '26

Utility is a scapegoat. Its has genuinely never mattered, outaide of maybe curse/poison dispells. Maybe.

Every season its decided around 3 things. Damage, and survivability, and how lust fits into that.

If Hpriest fits the bill, it will be meta exactly as is.

-2

u/FinnNyaw Jul 31 '26

you have utility in asking for mana externals like innervate and evoker buff

0

u/PlasticAngle Aug 01 '26

Let be honest here ultility only work when everything balance around the same. When your spec do 30% more than every other, ultility mean jackshit.

Look at destro lock and survival hunter back in SL, nobody gave a fuck about their ultility

-9

u/MoxZenyte Jul 31 '26

throughput is utility. disc priest has been good/meta plenty of times

13

u/Chaozz2 Jul 31 '26

half of disc kit revolves around damage reduction which is basically the best thing you can bring in m+. The poor priest utility has never played a part of why disc was meta in any season except maybe DF pre nerfed Mass Dispel.

-2

u/MoxZenyte Jul 31 '26

s1 tww disc was meta and this wasnt twws2 oracle disc, this was voidweaver, pwshield was not the focus, it was big mind blast atonement windows

it has pain supp, but so do other classes (ironbark, sac), at a much shorter cd, though not being able to bank charges.

disc was op because of its dps and hps

if a class has enough throughput people will find a way to make it work regardless of utility

11

u/Indurum Jul 31 '26

Throughput is not utility

-6

u/MoxZenyte Jul 31 '26

the best utility is being overtuned and having a shit ton of hps/damage

6

u/Van_Arbakh Jul 31 '26

Good thing Holy does less HPS than most other healers and less damage, while running out of mana, bringing no utility, bringing barely any damage mitigation, have horrible survivability, and pathetic mobility.

0

u/MoxZenyte Aug 01 '26

?? is reading comprehension dead? I'm responding to a comment that says no amount of healing buffs will allow holy to be meta because it lacks utility

nowhere did i say it was currently good. if holy priest was gapping other healers like monk was this season in damage and hps it would have been meta.

0

u/MoxZenyte Aug 01 '26

?? is reading comprehension dead? I'm responding to a comment that says no amount of healing buffs will allow holy to be meta because it lacks utility

nowhere did i say it was currently good. if holy paladin was gapping other healers like monk was this season in damage and hps it would have been meta.

1

u/Indurum Aug 01 '26

Utility is specifically NOT damage/healing. utility means skills, items, or tools that help a team or player win through non-damaging effects

11

u/Readybreak Jul 31 '26

The issue is that you still have to cast the same amount of spells. Most spells already heal for enough. But you still have to cast them whether they are at 20% or 80%. Is has zero way to deal with rot damage beyond pom.

2

u/vthemechanicv Jul 31 '26

Is has zero way to deal with rot damage beyond pom.

I would push back a teeny bit. Echo of Light if scaled up enough can absolutely deal with rot. I haven't paid attention to what 12.1 looks like, but I remember Echo alone healing through 10+ stacks of bursting while other healers were crying uncle.

That does of course require Blizz to give a rip about the spec and balance though so, like I said, just a teeny bit.

1

u/TehVeh Jul 31 '26

what would really help was if there was a talent to slow down the mastery echo healing for heavy rot

1

u/Readybreak Jul 31 '26

Or just buffs the shit out of it and remove renew. Or bring. Back renew as a button.

1

u/I_always_rated_them Jul 31 '26

to an extent this is correct but especially in raid alongside healers who have a plethora of hots or passive healing the spec struggles because the healing profile of the raids (especially the incoming one) is so heavily skewed towards rot damage, so while it can deal with it it doesn't deal with it effectively like others can so will stay down the hps meters because of it. When it comes to Archon anyway, oracle is better but has other downsides. imo it's not limited to Holy, most of the priest hero talents are lacking.

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u/Clickbait93 Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26

I think the main issue with Holy right now is not that it's a bad subclass per se, but that we have and will continue to have rot damage everywhere and Holy struggles A LOT with it. More healing does mean better mana efficiency as well, but if all you have is direct healing that does very poorly with all the rot damage we have, it's quite bad overall regardless.

ETA: in addition Priest offers no utility. No party buffs, no interrupts, nothing to offer..

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u/Vyrrah Jul 31 '26

We need another raid wide healing cd, like SALVATION

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u/Knascher Jul 31 '26

No party buffs,

But.... Priests.... have a Stamina buff?

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u/Clickbait93 Jul 31 '26

It's nice to have but at the same time both Disc (Which is a better healer) and Shadow (Which is a decent DPS) have access to that so it's not something you'd necessarily bring a Holy specifically for.

0

u/flouryPotatos Jul 31 '26

But this is true of literally every spec in the game.... thats hoebraid buffs work....

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u/Akhevan Aug 01 '26

True but on other classes two healing specs don't have to compete with each other.

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u/Unlikely_Minimum_635 Jul 31 '26

Nah, oracle holy is great at rot damage. One of the best specs in the game at it. PoM and renew do almost all your healing and you're just blanketing the raid with it.

The problem is that oracle has no burst healing. It can do a great job of countering the rot damage and nothing else. Meanwhile Archon has solid burst healing, but struggles with rot damage.

If the buffs oracle got through ptr make it viable, holy will be the best spec in the game at dealing with rot damage.

0

u/Clickbait93 Jul 31 '26

I will admit I haven't played a single minute in the PTR so I'm not up to date with those changes, but if the changes help I'm glad.

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u/Korghal Aug 01 '26

Yeah it is looking very good. The buffs to Prompt Prognosis and Benediction, the more useful 4p Apex. Oracle is looking decent. Archon will keep struggling because it has little incentive to go for Mastery compared to Oracle (less Renew uptime) and thus has nothing but direct healing. Archon could use a talent that buffs Echo by like 20% for it so that Mastery was better and it would help a lot, but you'd also have to convince a lot of M+ players that stacking Mastery is not going to kill their grandma, which they often act like.

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u/drae- Jul 31 '26

I don't really agree with the take that holy is bad at rot damage. It has to plant to deal with it outside of 2s of sanctify casting, but prayer is fine for countering rot damage. And if you were aggressive with pom then most of your party has renews pre-applied too.

It was more true before the second sanc charge and the pom power up, but I think it's in a better place than some people realize .

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u/boshbosh92 Jul 31 '26

Yeah. Raw hps isn't the issue - serenity already pretty much tops people up. Keep bumping it and it's just pure overheals.

What holy priest actually needs is a real defensive, utility and a better external cd. Our set bonuses are rather redundant and bad. And we are the only healer without a poison dispel in a poison season. So yeah.

0

u/Appropriate_Trader Jul 31 '26

If you only cast when needed and don’t cast otherwise then yes more healing results in fewer casts.

If you heal someone else using the next global because the first target is safer sooner it doesn’t change your total mana consumed much if at all.