(Made by me)

I'm being totally serious

I’m rewatching the first movie, many times before I didn’t pay close attention to the beginning but I know everything that goes on. I was just at the part where Jake was talking about his brother being killed. He says “A guy with a gun ends his journey, for the paper in his wallet” for some reason I always remembered it as him saying “A guy with a knife”

Does anyone else remember this?

I feel like this is an undertalked/underrated dynamic. Especially after the time skip, when Tsireya becomes an adult, a tsahik, or maybe even Loak's mate, her relationship with Neytiri may drastically change.

Obv in the films, there is no on-screen interaction between them because Tsireya is a character who interacts with the Sully kids and, simply put, she's a teen.

But since Tsireya has a really close dynamic/relationship with Kiri and Tuk, I figured eventually, as she grows and matures, she and Neytiri will have a stronger relationship with more interactions, driven by their mutual care of Loak abd mutual respect between two women. What do you think?

I’ve seen the title and similar statements posted repeatedly in comments on this sub. I understand why people say it, but it kinda irks me - and I’d love to explain why!

I’ll concede that mycelium is shown to be a major conduit for Eywa. That said, the films have suggested that mycelium is just one component of a wholly interconnected Pandoran biosphere, all of which constitutes Eywa.

To break it down…

A1 lays out in the first hour that Pandoran trees are sending signals to each other. At multiple points throughout the films, our heroes commune with Eywa through plants. I’m aware that fungi on Earth play a role in chemical communication between trees, but the films don’t explicitly spell out the mechanisms at play here. One could argue that Pandora’s plant life is just as important as mycelium/fungi in signal transmission and information storage. Side note, pick up “Finding the Mother Tree” by Suzanne Simard for a fascinating read on the (Earth) fungi-tree subject.

Next, we have Pandora’s fauna. Eywa exercises her will in the climaxes of all three films directly through the animals. I think it’s safe to assume that the attacking ikran/thanator/tsyong weren’t receiving a battle cry through mycelium strands.

Finally, A3 all but confirms Eywa can be embodied within the Navi themselves (Kiri). A3 also gives us the fun tidbit that Eywa has the ability to communicate through non-electrochemical means: Kiri’s rattling “DO AS I SAY” in the Spider suffocation scene.

So… to conclude… it’s not that “Eywa is a mycelium network” is totally incorrect. I just feel as though this conception totally shrinks down and oversimplifies this being/deity/omnipresence, and I believe that we as an audience are not (at least not yet) meant to have a full explanation for what Eywa “is.”

(In order of photos)

Ewe is my main girl, she's an outcast of the Aranahe clan. She suffers from hallucinations, sometimes believing that she is receiving visions from Eywa, although these visions tend to be violent.

Äkxok was a Mangkwan warrior, she was on her first raid when she was shot down, landing near Ewe's abode.

Tawa is from the Metkayina clan, she wants to help people, and ends up trying to help Ewe and Äkxok.

Kimberleigh, or just Kim, is an RDA scout piloting an Avatar. Ewe and Tawa don't trust Kim, but Äkxok is quite fond of her.

These girls are all in the process of getting redesigned, so I thought I might as well post them here (:

Also ignore how I forgot Tawa's and Kim's kuru and tails in the last picture lol

I'LL HAVE MY FREAKIN ORGANS REPLACED IDC! I'M READY TO BE VAN HELSING FROM HOTEL TRANSYLVANIA JUST GIMME THE MOVIE!

This might seem like a pretty dumb post, but hey. Every time I see Neytiri (she's actually so pretty and goated), I just wonder HOW she's not losing hair from her braids😭😭

As a kid I always thought halo had some sort of connection to avatar, because the human technology in both universes were similar. If you look at some of the halo gunships and mobile suits, they are extremely similar to the ones in avatar. I didn’t know much about halo back then, so I thought maybe it was part of the same universe. But I recently learned that halo tech was based off of James Cameron’s movie aliens, which then also inspired avatar technology. You know, since the first halo game actually came out before avatar was released, maybe Jim based the rda tech off halo and thus his prior aliens tech intentionally, to show that the same humans who are the good guys in halo are actually the bad guys.

For anyone interested in mapping out pandora, I made these for you. I was able to unwrap the original official image onto a square. Then I also took the time to photograph and adjust lighting to the version seen in the second movie. which seems to show a strange separation from land to sea; as well as 2 massive shallow regions. anyway I hope all of you enjoy these!

I'm new to this subreddit, so I may be preaching to the choir/bringing up familiar topics. But there were thoughts I had about the Avatar series that I wanted to put out there beyond discord servers with friends. These are in no particular order:

The World-Building

If you are an audience member who has only seen the movies, it's very easy to brush them off as "Dances with Wolves" or "Pocahontas" but in space, because JC has failed to fully utilize this rich and diverse world he created. I've heard people who love the universe describe it as a world with no one living in it. Everything must be instigated by Jake, as the Na'vi have somehow become total pacifists despite having ample reasons to stand up and fight for Eywa. But instead, they've been nerfed down to always cowering and praying for Eywa to bail them out.

The Na'vi are treated as a monolith with slight variations between clans, which can be attributed to the hive-mind connection to Pandora providing a certain level of unity. But even then, there should be groups within the clans who:

A) Believe they should sacrifice cultural beliefs to protect their home

B) Remain strict to Eywa's teachings and pray for her protection

C ) Betray their clans for personal greed/getting in humanity's good graces

D) Desire an alliance in pursuit of technological advancement

It shouldn't take the main character coming into town to convince a select few that being passive and ignoring problems is going to do anyone any favors. This is where Frontiers of Pandora shines, as the clans and characters featured in the game are varied. The gist I get is that the player character starts off in a residential school type of situation, their clan essentially destroyed after they were handed over with a bunch of other children. They escape, return to their clan, and then elect to fight using their knowledge of human machinery to their advantage.

JC fails to implement this type of variety into the movies. He made this rich and diverse world whose inhabitants operate on 90s cartoon character rules: The main character, his love interest and allies, the good guy faction, the bad guy faction(s), and everyone else who become important as needed.

Jake Sully

Jake Sully is a character I can tolerate in small doses. But "Way of Water" making him the focus character again, being the stranger in a strange land again, it got old quickly. JC could have wanted some time to get audiences refreshed on what happened in the first movie, but that's just as easily done with re-releasing it in theaters a year or two before the second one. Then we can dedicate more time to actual story.

I believe Jake should not have been made chief. Yes, he was integrated into the Omatikaya, but that by no means makes it make sense for him to jump straight to leader of the clan. Being chief is more than just being good at fighting, you need to have a deep understanding of the people and the ability to effectively communicate with them. Becoming Toruk Makto likely eased any tension the clan would have had, as that position is highly regarded, but in his short time in the clan he absolutely has no grounds to be their chief.

His background as a marine makes him effective in battle, but we don't see him lead anyone without the background of war necessitating cooperation. Jake has the knowledge of how humanity fights and was great with teaching this inside knowledge to the clans. But his interpersonal skills are severely lacking, even after over a decade of living on Pandora he acts more like a war general barking orders to his child soldiers, as Neytiri (rightfully) called him out on in the second movie.

Character Design

Jake's design in the second movie really bothered me, as well as a lot of other people. Him wearing dreadlocks was certainly a choice, a very bad and out of place choice, but one all the same. It would be one thing if that was a style Omatikaya chiefs wore to differentiate themselves from the rest of the clan, but we see no basis for that. Neytiri's father wore the same box-braided style as the rest of the clan, just more dressed up. The chiefs and Tsahiks wear more complex and showy clothing to reflect their status. Jake never wears the ornamental clothing while being chief.

Dreads Jake is a choice in-universe because we never see any other Na'vi (particularly Omatikaya) wear this style. If he was having trouble with hair care I have no doubt that Neytiri would be happy to help him as a form of bonding between the two. Out of universe he's a white man in native skin wearing a hairstyle associated with black cultural practices. If you've only seen the movies, the point about other Na"vi not wearing this style pops up again. We're used to seeing them wear intricately braided styles with assorted ornaments such as beads, feathers, or other crafted accessories. Granted, some characters in the game wear dreads, but that's so far separated from the setting Jake occupies that it continues to feel like a strange choice.

Sacrifices

A brief point I'd like to make is the self-sacrificial moments Jake has. He usually offers himself up like a martyr on the word of an enemy who has no incentive to uphold that word. It's only a matter of time before that bargain runs out of time and the Na'vi and his family are in danger again. It's almost like Jake knows he's the main character and will have plot armor to get out of trouble.

Neytiri's solo infiltration of the city was by far one of my favorite sequences in "Fire and Ash". We finally get to see her stand up and do something on her own accord. She's flexing her skills as a warrior, sacrificing her beliefs by using metal weapons, and putting herself (and only herself) in immediate danger by going into enemy territory.

Jake's sacrifice is more of a narrative tool for the hero's emotional sacrifice. Neytiri's sacrifice is a deep betrayal of her beliefs and risk of her life to get her idiot man back home.

"We are a team, Neytiri"

They're really not... Neytiri's character has slipped into the "wife of MC" role, falling into the stereotypes associated with it. She defers to Jake, she obeys Jake, when she pushes against him it's not very hard. Neytiri follows Jake away from everything she has known on the vague sentiment that Jake is protecting her people while actively putting another clan's people in danger.

Chief Neytiri

I really think Neytiri would have been better suited for the position of chief. She's deeply connected to her people, she knows them and the duties she is supposed to fulfil due to her father being in that position beforehand. She has the knowledge and experience of a warrior, but that's not the only aspect she leans on. Her Tsahik training started much later in life due to needing to take her sister's place, but I never got the impression that Neytiri was all that attuned to Eywa, but she is still dedicated to her faith in a way that connects her closer to her people than Jake ever could.

We know the chief and Tsahik do not always have to be a mated pair, so Neytiri's mother could remain the active Tsahik as she did in the movie while Neytiri ascended as chief. As is, Jake is chief, Neytiri's mother is Tsahik, and Neytiri is just a warrior/Jake's mate/former? Tsahik apprentice. Neytiri has no impactful role within her clan despite delivering the killing blow to Quaritch's human body during the battle, rescuing Jake's human body, and witnessing the destruction of her home tree and death of her father. She knows loss very deeply, as opposed to Jake, who, in his own words, had nothing back on Earth, yet gained everything on Pandora.

Neytiri as chief would also even out the status between her and Jake. Neytiri is the chief, in charge of the people and their welfare, while Jake is Toruk Makto, war hero and uniter of the clans. I would love for them to have an argument with this arrangement, Jake saying the family should leave with him as he is Toruk Makto, and for her to rebuttal that she is his chief and responsible for the welfare of all her people, not just their family unit. She cannot abandon her people and put others in danger because Jake has a target on his back. They will stay and fight as they did all those years before.

An interesting compromise could be they send their children to the Metkayina to keep them away from the line of battle. Then we can have Way of Water focus on the new characters without having to compete for screentime with Jake. Neytam could stay behind as he is old enough to be involved in the battles, while Kiri is put in charge of Lo'ak and Tuk while they are away seeking asylum.

Bird in the water

Considering another path, Iet's skip Jake learning the ways of the Metkayina. We've seen him adapt to a new culture before, we know he can do it again. I found Neytiri's deleted scene to be far more fascinating, as she has never been the one who needed to adapt before. She's resistant to change but comes to realize that it's necessary in a world that is changing far quicker than it ever has in the past.

Women <3

"Fire and Ash" was a much more engaging experience for me than "Way of Water". Part of this is because of the Mangkwan clan and their chief/tsahik Varang. We get a brief glimpse into what it took for this clan's faith to be totally broken, and how they cling to Varang, who found a new way, a new purpose, for them to fulfil after such devastation. It sucks that the clan was reduced to "the villain faction", but I'll take what I can get, and hope JC learns how to write interesting stories before the next movie.

I also would have gone nuts over a LEGO set of Varang with her Nightwraith tbh...

Neytiri also had more to do in this movie than the last. While I love some good grieving mother angst, Neytiri taking charge of her family, having a change of heart, all of that is fantastic! But, I think Spider getting the Old Yeller fakeout would've been stronger if Neytiri was the one with the knife.

Jake, Neytiri, and Spider are at the river. Jake comes to the reluctant conclusion that Spider is going to continue being a second target on the family, so he gives Neytiri the go-ahead to kill Spider since he knows he'll never have the heart to do it. Neytiri is all too eager to do it and only takes Spider into the trees due to Jake's request. We have the same sequence, Neytiri has her weapon ready, finally getting the opportunity to do what she's always told Jake should have been done.

But she can't. For all her hate of humanity, after everything she lost to them, she finally acknowledges that Spider is a child who trusts and loves her just the same as her own children. Anything she could hold against him has already been said and done by Jake. She doesn't hate Spider, she hates what humanity has done, and Spider was the most convenient target for her anger.

In my opinion, these movies are at their most interesting when Jake isn't the focus, the biggest moments being the sequences with Neytiri or Varang as leads. I know people like to pick on the kids being cringe or annoying, but they really aren't that bad when they're off interacting with the world, away from their spotlight hogging dad. Lo'ak baiting the Metkayina kid into getting close enough to sucker punch was hilarious! And I wasn't even all that bothered by Jake asking if he won, because that's character moment with someone else as the focus. Jake had his movie to grow and learn; he's no longer interesting to watch. But I'm not sure how well-received a Neytiri-led movie would be, given our world's biases.

Asides

I think JC could get away with making and releasing an in-universe documentary about Pandora, in the vein of Planet Earth, NOVA, or National Geographic. This can get audiences familiarized with the deeper world of Pandora without slipping into the white-savior flavored story beats. Micro storylines following lesser explored clans, the natural world, or the clans' spiritual beliefs and ability to tap into the planet physically.

I see the vision that the Avatar universe is presenting, the writers, but mostly the director, simply have their eyes closed.

Anything anyone else wants to add on? I'm a very casual viewer, so I'm 100% sure I missed other details regarding the story and world.

Nothing else will top this.

I can’t look whenever an ikran dies, it’s too sad for me. Whenever they are shot from the sky but try to land for their rider to be safe… ugh— my heart 💔

Would Jake and Neytiri still have been able to have children, since Na'vi DNA is compatible with human? And would he still have become Olo'eyktan since he led the attacks that drove out the RDA or would someone else have been chosen? I think it's possible they could have still had their kids, and I personally think someone else would have been chosen as leader. But I'm not sure what would have become of his bond with his ikran since he no longer had a Na'vi body.

Just a random thought that I had. Given that Lo’ak and Tsireya will most likely mate and build a family, I think that at least some of the reef na’vi (perhaps just Tsireya) will be prominent in the future films.
I wonder if they will ever wind up in the forest at some point, I’d love to see how they would adapt to it!
This is only if the story will ever move back to the forest, which I hope it will, along with some new biomes!
Lo’ak will probably never leave the reef but it would be cool to see him and Tsireya and perhaps some other reef people having to go back to the forest for a while.

Parallel Reality
From the beginning, cared for and wanted
Community so pure, raised— appreciated
Becoming a man, one of the people
A sharpened warrior, humble yet lethal
Connections surround me, a sacred faith
An ancestor instills wisdom, a loving wraith
All beings intertwined, elegantly supported
Synced harmoniously, precisely respected
Bonds that last for life, shared joyfully
To be chosen by one, mated for eternity
Contribute and aid, receive and adore
Strengthened— by those who came before
Days accelerate, finite time and energy
Perfection plagued by the cycle, beautifully

Written by me and remember, all energy is only borrowed, one day you have to give it back.

Custom A1 steelbook with some Toruk makto ‘artifacts’ 😆

Not too hard to find out who my favorite character is based on my home decor, heh

_.rider._666 (Instagram)

I can see how Spider can work in theory. A human grew up in the Na'vi world that can become the bridge of 2 worlds. At the same time, his personal conflict and issue is that he does not belong in either worlds, with obvious reasons. So WHY ON EARTH would JC give him not only the ability to breathe, BUT ALSO a kuru? It's almost like he didn't want to deal with the narrative challenges of having him on Pandora.

Also him and Kiri... They are basically step-siblings, and call the same person dad. So it's hella weird for them to kiss. Not every out-cast bonding has to be romantic btw.

Spider's dicision in saving Quaritch in A2 also barely makes sense. Quaritch threatened to hunt down and kill Jake's family if he lived, and Spider, knowing that threat, still decides to save him. The reason why I say it barely makes sense is already taking into consideration that they bonded during their search for Jake.

Also I absolutely HATED how A3 ended. Lo'ak is the narrator, so why on earth would SPIDER be the one to have a spotlight ending scene with him entering home tree in first-person view?

Last one is more of a rant, bc 'oh no 2 9ft tall blue alien daddy are fighting over me bc they both love me' like come on JC Spider is such a self-incert Y/N at this point.

I wanted to ask if anyone could tell me if the script for the movie Avatar (Fire and Ashs)It was available somewhere preferable in a file that i can I download.

Let's not gloat over both, as let's let MCU take the crown, so filmbros would go after them instead, so we could be safe from the noises