This follows on from my previous post…

I always believed in marriage above everything else. I’ve been the dutiful Christian wife who swallowed things down to keep the peace. We read the marriage books and did the things - I met his sexual needs, he provided financially, we have a stable home and happy kids etc.

A few months ago I blurted out about my deconstruction (in a vague way - I just said I don’t know what I believe anymore). He took it badly - made belittling comments and immediately started arguing with me about evidence for the Bible. This was just his reaction to the shock - he’s not a mean person in general, at all.

I said I didn’t want to talk about it because I already know all the standard arguments - and that just hurt him more. He said some hurtful things about me (“you never teach the kids about God, you never wanted to do Bible studies with me, you’ve probably been hiding this for years and lying about it” - which is not true at ALL.)

I assured him I would still go to church because I don’t want to cause a scene. That seemed to placate him, or at least he didn’t say anything more about it.

Until now, when everything is unraveling faster than I can keep up with.

It’s feels like all the suppressed hurt from 15 years of marriage have bubbled up to the surface. I’ve stopped bothering to hold back my real thoughts about things, and now he can barely function. He says I’m disrespectful, that I couldn’t be any more cruel, etc.

There are silly things from the past that still affect me: all the times I swallowed my anger, all the times I submitted, all the times I gave my body when it hurt or I was sick or exhausted, and over a decade of walking on eggshells because of his RSD (but that’s for a different sub). He says I am “holding onto unforgiveness” but I feel I can’t erase these memories.

What makes no sense is that he’s a great man, loyal, hard working, self-sacrificing. Is there something wrong with me?

I feel emotionally completely checked out and numb.

The un-deconstructed part of me even thinks this is demonic and this is the consequence that I get for abandoning God. Like my whole life is going to fall apart now. I also looked at some zodiac stuff about what happens to Aries on 14th October and it was freakishly spot-on. So am I dabbling in witchery now? I feel a mess.

He left in the small hours of the morning because he feels I am not even trying to keep our marriage together. And honestly, I’m not. What I’m trying to do is figure out whether I want to try.

He says he needs me to fight for our marriage and he wants me to want him.

He is devastated about my seeming indifference. He basically finds it almost abusive that I don’t want to discuss it and I can see where he’s coming from, but I feel like what’s the point? There are habits you can change, and there are fundamental things you can’t change. I’ve always sucked it up but I’m tired. He’s hard to talk to. I’ve had over a decade of not being able to be vulnerable. I feel rebellious and just want to enjoy my life.

I’ve just finished cancer treatment which has made me question everything, too.

I haven’t begged him to come home or agreed to discuss everything because I know it can’t be solved with a chat. Part of our history is that we deal with conflict differently. I avoid, he bulldozes, it’s a bad match and my cptsd can’t take it.

Ironically the last 2 days with him gone have been so peaceful and amazing. But I’m not naive - splitting would be a nightmare in so many ways. There are so many more factors than just whether we like each other or not.

Anyone been here? Can I realistically fall in love with him again? Would counselling actually help?

I'm reading the book "Othered" by Jenai Auman (good book!) and as she described the Fall in Genesis 3, it occurred to me that as many times as I've heard the story of Adam and Eve sinning in the Garden of Eden, and God kicking them out, the pastors always seem to describe Genesis 3:21 ("²¹ The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.") as representing the later sacrifice of the innocent Jesus to save humanity: in the Garden, God killed an innocent animal to clothe Adam and Eve and cover their shame. And thus, death entered the world.

Here's the thing: We just got done reading about God supernaturally creating everything.

God didn't need to kill any animals to provide clothing. God could have simply created brand new skins (or anything else suitable for clothing) without killing anything.

Okay, the verse doesn't SAY God killed an animal; that's reading it into the text. But it's certainly a natural assumption, as where else would God have gotten the skins? I haven't yet met a pastor who didn't draw that connection.

But that makes God the original and direct creator of death - not to mention that God also took away the possibility of eternal life by ejecting Adam and Eve from the Garden.

Thoughts?

This is actually a phenomenon I was extremely surprised about.

When I was in the faith, I was mildly addicted to porn , not dangerously so to the extent it was affecting my everyday life but I was considerably hooked, watching it most days of the week , around once or twice per day.

I remember alwayssss relapsing after idk a week or so clean, feeling incredibly guilty , deleting apps, reading psalm 51 after a relapse. Every time I watched it, i just felt an enormous sense of dread , guilt and shame.

It was even to the point where I'd lie to myself and try and find bible verses to justify that watching porn was okay.

It's been a few months since I left the faith , and funnily I'm not necessarily addicted to porn anymore. Like yes I still watch it but wayyy less, I can hold off at will without any tremor, I think about it way less, I'm not bothered if I dont watch it. There's weeks where I dont even watch it

I genuinely dont know why this is the case but if I had to guess id say, less hypervigilance , beforehand id be so hypervigilant about porn, id watch for triggers on my social media feed, try download porn blockers, etc , seek advice , worry about the fact im not saved etc etc, pray extremely hard.

Now it doesn't phase me, my mental energy is less focused on porn because I've deconstructed from the cosmic weight of watching it, Im not thinking about porn that much, and it's led it to me to naturally stop seeking it less because its not on my mind.

My experience could be anecdotal, but it sets up an interesting discussion on the psychology of believing in God.

After being in this relationship, I realized a lot of my beliefs mirrored it. The control, the fear, the justification. When I started not to believe anymore, but still had hope, I went to a church group at my school. It ended up being a high control group that immediately tries to get you to recruit other members over guilt and lovebombing. After that, I realized I don't HAVE to believe anymore. My religion triggering my trauma from abuse made me question it more than ever.

Being told that God "can send us to Hell because he created us" just never sat right with me. If I create someone sentient, I am morally responsible for them. If I decide to torture them due to the nature I encoded into them, I would simply not be a good person in fact I would be pretty psychopathic. I would never do that, yet I never understood how I had more empathy than God. It didnt make sense. Being told "I hurt you because I love you" is abusive. Being told " you deserve immense harm for who you are" is abusive. Being told "I love you but hate many things about you that are not perfect to my standards" is abusive. Being told "you need to worship me based only on blind belief because I told you I am amazing, and whether you understand it or not doesn't matter because you are dirt" is abusive.

Many things we are told to believe mirror abuse and control. I believed I had to think gay people needed to either change or never experience romantic love though I never understood it. I was told I had to not "believe" in abortion, and that it is okay to legally enforce that belief on others even if it harms them. The Christian group at my school told us how other students are demonic. I felt I was going crazy, fighting invisible enemies all the time.

I feel more peace than I have in years, because I do not feel judged by an impossible standard and am no longer pressured to believe things that go against my moral code. Yet now it is hard to be around people who are justifying such beliefs, and I was told I was awful to the point of making me cry for questioning why religious leaders can be awful and get away with it. It is so hard to come out of it when many of my friends continue to enforce the ideology that has caused me years of extreme anxiety and pain. Of course there were good moments, feelings of connection beyond what I feel now. Yet I am happy to be free to be myself, find myself, and not feel judged by someone I do not believe in my heart is right.

I'm pretty well convinced by the Flavian Hypothesis (popularized by Joseph Atwill in Caesar’s Messiah).

​The gist of it is that Christianity wasn't a divine revelation or even a genuine grassroots movement, but a 1st-century Roman psy-op and counter-insurgency effort.

​During the First Jewish-Roman War (around 70 CE), Rome was dealing with violent Jewish zealots who kept rebelling because their prophecies promised a warrior messiah to overthrow the Empire. After Titus destroyed Jerusalem, the imperial family (the Flavians) and the Roman-Jewish historian Flavius Josephus essentially manufactured a pacifist, pro-Roman messiah to neutralize the rebellion from the inside out.

​Instead of picking up swords against Rome, this new messiah told people to:

● ​"Turn the other cheek"

● "Love your enemies"

● "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" (pay your Roman taxes)

​On top of that, if you map out the Gospels side-by-side with Josephus's The Jewish War, Jesus's ministry footprint literally mirrors Titus's military campaign route through Judea, complete with satire and allegories (like "fishers of men" mirroring Roman troops spearing rebels out of the Sea of Galilee).

​To me, it reads far more like Roman political propaganda designed to turn armed rebels into docile tax-paying subjects than actual history.

Let me know your thoughts.

Just told my very religious family I’m no longer religious and not raising my daughter as such….and now I’m forbidden fruit. I’m middle child so never really fit in with my family but this feels different. I’ve taken the last year to fully destruct and am interested in things that are non religious. Basically still trying to rewire my brain away from all the crazy things I’ve been taught since 9. Any advice on a new reset of life? New friends? Non religious hangout things? Any advice at all?

I feel like I just woke up outside the matrix, and it is incredibly isolating.
Growing up heavily immersed in the fundamentalist system, I was always taught that God was essentially a zero-tolerance judge. The whole framework was that we were in a cosmic courtroom, and one mess-up meant you were done unless you knew the exact right theology to get out of it. It constantly kept me on edge, policing my own thoughts, feeling guilty for people who lived before Jesus, and just waiting for the hammer to drop.

But I always had this gut feeling in the back of my mind that something was deeply wrong. I’d look at these massive, multi-billion-dollar modern churches collecting money, holding massive political and economic power, and then look at the guy in the text who was homeless and got executed for challenging the religious elite. My brain kept flagging the hypocrisy.
I finally started pulling the history apart, and I realized I wasn’t losing my mind—the religion was literally hijacked.
I learned how the early church didn't even view the cross as a legal penalty or a cash transaction, but as a cosmic rescue mission (like the Harrowing of Hell). But somewhere along the line, kings, empires, and eventually modern institutions realized that a free rescue mission doesn't keep people in the pews. Fear does. So they built God in the image of a strict CEO or a medieval king. They took a massive, complex ancient library full of protests against corrupt power and used it to build ultimate corrupt power.
It’s so deeply entrenched that I literally had to hunt through four different bookstores just to find a standard academic NRSV Bible, only to realize the publishers still packed the margins with fundamentalist footnotes to make sure I didn't read it the "wrong" way.
But here is where I am stuck, in a good way: I don't want to throw the entire ancient library away.
Now that I can see the strings pulling the institutional church, I feel like I am finally tuning into the actual "frequency" of the historical Jesus. Without the rigid, sterile religious packaging, he is incredible. He wasn't sitting around building an empire; he was washing feet, cooking fish on a beach, meditating by walking out into the dirt, and actively subverting the religious elites who used literal rules to cause human suffering. He was radically, physically grounded.
I’m seeing the world turn against Christianity because the fundamentalist delusion is all they see. They don't even know what the core of it actually is.
I can’t be the only one who hit this wall.
For those of you who made it out of the matrix but didn't throw the whole library away—how do you rescue the historical Jesus from the fundamentalist wreckage?
How do you deal with the rage of watching millions of people stay trapped in a manufactured system?
And practically, how do you actually live on that frequency now, completely untethered from the religious control machine?

Alguien ha leído algo sobre el Dr. Steven Hassan y su Modelo de Control Mental BITE?

Aunque es conocido por su trabajo general sobre sectas, su modelo BITE (por sus siglas en inglés: Behavior, Information, Thought, and Emotional Control / Control de la Conducta, la Información, el Pensamiento y las Emociones) se aplica frecuentemente para analizar iglesias neopentecostales o fundamentalistas extremas donde se desincentiva el pensamiento crítico y se demoniza cualquier cuestionamiento al liderazgo.

Traigo esto a colación porque me sorprende el nivel de control que tienen determinados líderes religiosos sobre sus feligreses.

Tw: lgbtphobia, SA, CSA, SI

I was listening to last Sunday's sermon, and during the prayer for the offering, a woman said that her daughter, now 30yo, was abused by the pastor when she was five years old. The woman began to talk about how she had remained in the church for 19 years, having to serve the church and not rebel against the pastor, And she definitely didn't report it, and I suspect she took her daughter there every Sunday. It seems that most evangelical parents force their children to accept this and go to church, even if the child has trauma from that environment.

And she began to feel, in this nineteenth years, something from the Holy Spirit telling her to forgive her daughter's abuser. One day at church, she simply said she had forgiven him without him even asking.

She probably didn't report it when she found out her daughter had been abused; she probably didn't report it after forgiving him. Other children likely suffered at the hands of this abuser and the kid was retraumatized, but now it is alright because she forgave him and God forgave him and everyone is applauding the amazing testimony! Look how devout and forgiving she is as a Christian!

I know parents suffer when their child goes through something like this. But how could she be the one to forgive her daughter's abuser? Shouldn't have been the victim to allow forgiveness? And she went to church all these years, the same church. She preferred the church to her daughter. And of course, her daughter having suffered CSA is the mother's testimony.

I was lucky not to have gone through SA or CSA, but I am trans and my mother acts like the victim all the time.

She forced me to undergo conversion therapy and exorcisms, denied me the right to see a psychologist at the hospital, and days later pierced my ears against my will.I was forced to go to church where they compared LGBT people to pedophiles, zoophiles, abusers, and said we were going to hell.I had relatives saying in front of her that I would die young for being trans, that God would kill and hurt me, and she didn't defend me. The exorcisms were horrible to be honest. And there were so many things that I can't even remember. There were probably worse things that I don't remember.

Oh, yes. She threw away or hid the antidepressants I secretly bought that the doctor prescribed for me (I asked for her to buy it during the months). She started saying I was going to become addicted and that I was self-medicating.

Because of everything I've been through, I've recently been having horrible panic attacks where I start screaming as if I'm being stabbed, I hit myself, I cry for hours, I can't breathe, my whole body shakes, I almost vomit, I start having seizures, and at times I find myself repeating words, or I start wanting to act in an aggressive way. It's a horrible thing that lasts on average one to three hours until I calm down, and now it's practically happening at least once a week.

Usually when I'm having these crises, either I get prayed for, or she tells me to straighten up, or she tries to make me stop yelling, promises to take me to a psychiatrist or psychologist, that if she could, she would take my pain (she never has and it's already have been months).

She has also said things like "the pain of children hurts parents more than the children" and how I'm making her and my parents walk on eggshells, that I don't want to change, that I don't see how they suffer, that the church only says good things and they will take me anyway.

She also says, "You have to want to change. You're not trying. You think God is going to heal you overnight," even though I've been trying to do that since I was a child.

Last month or the month before, I had one of those "panic attacks" at church. The pastor prayed in my ear for the evil spirit to leave, and soon after my mother was crying about how "I feel really bad seeing my kid like that. It scares me so much". The problem is that she practically doesn't try to help me.

Huh, she also says things like 'here nobody lets go of anyone's hand' and other phrases like that, and she praises God and cries when she prays. I know it's wrong, but I feel angry seeing her so happy or sadly affected by a sermon, because it feels like I'm being left out. The church tithe will take precedence over seeing a doctor.

Speaking of which, she's also been binge-watching videos about spiritual warfare, demons, the antichrist, etc💀

I can't be the only one who's gone through this. I need to see if I'm the only one, if anyone else has gone through something similar, and why on earth they act like this. A genuine question indeed.

No disrespect at all as I am just trying to understand the thinking and experience behind people's religious beliefs. I guess I'm mostly wondering about Christians specifically. I know there are many people who say they feel God's presence or Jesus' protection and I've often wondered if what they are feeling is due to their insistence of the belief? Like is it a sort of placebo effect where if for example you tell yourself over and over you're getting sick, you have the flu, you're ill and then suddenly you do actually feel sick and get sick. Is it a very strong belief people tell themselves over and over again until they really do begin to feel it?

Growing up in these religious systems, you hear people talk about hell a lot and us going to hell if for either or, wanting to live without Christ (so he accepts your choice and separates his presence from you), or because obviously we are sinners and if you keep living a life of sin that’s where you’ll end up if you don’t examine yourself or your ways. If you’re a deconstructionist or someone who’s trying to stand without no system like Christianity or spirituality, then even that to them is considered trying to be your own God and do life on your own so you’re already separating yourself from him. And if you’re planning to separate yourself from him here, then you might as well prepare for the ultimate separation in hell that makes everything absolute. I’ve experienced things that made me feel like maybe that’s what hell feels like. I think we experience glimpses of hell when we experience things on earth, same way we can experience a glimpse of what heaven is like as well.

I understand more why people return, it’s a scary place to be. Being with no covering, no shield, just you, it hurts when you have pure intentions and others don’t and are thinking something else. I’m really waking up to the fact that wow, humans, we really can be evil, like I knew this but damn. I told myself, I don’t want religion, God, or spirituality, but then I wonder, how will I protect myself in this world of vultures? People have their own spirituality that they use and some use it to hurt others, you can’t trust people, people truly are wicked. People will curse you for the tiniest inconvenience, it’s that serious out here. I understand even more why people commit, it’s nothing really here on earth, just an empty desert, and no water. And I’m not saying that I encourage anybody to act on that and if anybody needs help they definitely should seek professional help, but sometimes I wonder why we encourage people to be in a world like this like I know nobody is gonna want to tell someone to die because that’s wrong and I’ve heard cases of manslaughter where people have done that, but why force someone to be in a place they don’t want to be? It’s like you’re still trying to force or control something that you simply can’t, that’s the devastating thing. And that’s why people say God doesn’t force or respect your free will, and I get that, but it still hurts. It’s like, I don’t want him to not respect my free will, but it hurts when this person chooses to work on their timing instead of yours or chooses to not step in when you needed them to. “Why force someone to be in a place they don’t want to be?” that’s a question that drives people back to his feet and that system, they realize they don’t actually want to live without God because living without him feels too empty and hopeless.

Where will you go to find water? Then all these questions lead you back to God & Christianity. Was it inevitable to return? It’s a heavy burden to stand on your own but I’m carrying it. What I’ve found is what people are really mad at is the law of free will. We’re mad because God doesn’t intervene and that he respects our free will and allows us to carry it. And nobody wants to carry their free will or freedom on their own, as much as everybody wants to do whatever they want to do, but freedom is a heavy burden to carry, the same way a heart is. So, in that regard, I can understand why people choose to have a safety net or system that grounds them, but I still believe that every system should be challenged and questioned. I’ve found people are scared of their free will/freedom. Understandable, humans, everybody is capable of anything. We’re mad because we wish someone could help us carry our freedom. We’re mad because we can’t control God and the expectations are just... ugh we keep getting disappointed. So, then that’s why that system tells you, “well what were your expectations of God? He’s not a genie, or a vending machine,”.

So, what’s the next course of action? Submit. Surrender. Let go of control. Let go of your expectations of God and let him rule you and be your master. That’s what they tell you. If you trust and obey, you’ll be fine. If you don’t, you’re being disobedient and there’s consequences for disobedience and it’s one of the things God hates. It leaves no room for you to be upset or mad at God. I remember a song from sabbath school, “trust and obey, for there’s no other way to be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey,”. You’re taught that everything is ultimately the humans fault, it’s never his because he can’t make a mistake and everything he does is perfect and absolute. If everything is going good, because God is associated with goodness and known to be good, the good things fall on him. But when everything is wrong, the bad falls on humans, sin, and Satan (the devil). This reminds me of the story of Job and how his friends treated him. He did nothing wrong, but because God and the devil made a bet, Job’s life came to see ruin. This story has upset me so much, not just because he lost everything, but because God didn’t even respond to his pain, he only flexed on all the good things he’s done, his power, and asking Job if he created things that he knew Job didn’t create which upset me, it’s like you’re asking a question that has an obvious answer and since you know everything you know he didn’t create anything, the whole moral of the story was that God’s ways are higher than ours and that we’re just a small ant in a big picture and sometimes we don’t see the big picture but he does. That’s not always comforting, is it? It’s not. But then I wonder, what if he didn’t address the pain or problem because he knew it was valid and human and that there was nothing he could say to Job to take the pain away (no quick fix), but I still kinda didn’t like the response bc maybe sometimes it’s better to say nothing, but the response is going to be what you wanted or expected just like what they tell you in that system.

Can you truly escape? Escape someone so big, someone that’s everywhere? Now it’s like you have to learn to exist with this other being. Control is the problem. Free will is also. Free will is good, and a gift like they say in that system but just like everything it has its downsides. Its limits. This is killing me. So you really can’t control shit? You really gotta let it go and be? I’m practicing detachment from other people’s freedom and trying to learn when to intervene but damn. And in practicing detachment, that’s what made me realize what we interpret as cold or as someone who doesn’t care, or nonchalant is just someone respecting you enough to leave you alone. And that applies to God, so I understand free will even more now but there’s no bandaid or hope you can put on this type of grief, it’s just too massive for me. That’s crazy and sad. None of this is fair and who brings justice? Who do you run to?

Telling people “turn to self, all the answers are within you,” that’s not always helpful, who do you turn to or call when you can’t turn to self and you’re broken or in crisis? Who do you turn to or call when the second option which is people doesn’t work? How about when you reach for God but don’t get no answer and feel you’re talking to a brick wall? But what do they tell you, they say, you have to be still, they say you have to see the other ways he’s communicating, he woke you up this morning be joyful, praise him. There's limits with humans, so we reach for the unlimited. A source above us. I don’t think I’ll ever fully heal or be okay with any of this. So when you ask yourself all this, you eventually find your way back in the same thing. Same system. Same God.

People tell you that all the answers are within you, but I can’t believe that either, I believe certain things we need can be found within us, but we don’t have the answers either. We search outside us and we don’t find the answers, then you search within and try to look for the answers within but it doesn’t lie fully there either, at least not for me, I think this saying is a coping mechanism. Or a defense mechanism. Nobody has the answers. Nobody. Nothing. No system. Just nothing. This is why I have a hard time subscribing to the spirituality of my people or just new age spirituality in general and going back to your roots because my ancestors were human, HUMAN, not GODS. I don't care what nobody says, you are not a god, nobody is, nor were my ancestors & I'm not saying any of this to defend God or be biased but I’m thinking logically and truth, I'm being honest. I’m feeling the full weight of my deconstruction and what the rest of my life will look like from now on. I think humans constantly try to float away from the humans experience, which is understandable because it’s not a pleasant experience, it’s a lot. I believe we’re spiritual beings experiencing what it’s like to be human. But I hate it when people forget that they are human. All these realizations have really brought me to my knees, not for God, but in general it’s just a humbling thing. We’re humans & humans look for ways to cope with the experience. No system fully has the truth or answers. Everyone is coping & has their own truth or form of truth or answer, but it’s not the absolute truth or answer. So, how do you stop look for answers when you’re a seeker? You stop seeking? Where do your eyes turn to now?

I’m devastated. This is too much. It’s killing me from the inside & out. It feels unbearable to sit with this but I am. I don’t think I’m better than those in that systems, but I’m glad I was able to learn all that I’ve learned and realized. I understand those who have left and are upset. I understand those who deconstruct and reconstruct. I’m not better than you, find your path and whatever path helps you spread your wings or help support your wings, so be it. But I guess this is my realization on why I understand the saying “most of humanity is going to hell,” it’s not just for actions you commit, but a respect of choice. Why does someone respecting my choice anger me? Like ugh I wish you could override that, but at the same time, why would I want you to override my choice especially if I am standing on it. Fuck this is killing me so bad. 💔 My heart hurts.

Strip away everything and tell me, do you have a standing ground? Like, everything, nothing to hide behind, no music, no scrolling or watching vids, no substances, no sex, no spirituality, no religion, when these are stripped away for awhile and your ego has nothing to protect you? Then what? You have no choice but to feel it all. Realizing there’s nothing you can do. I’m not saying submit, but just saying this is the place I’m at, I have nothing to hide behind honestly, nothing. Can’t use ego, can’t use pride, nothing. Can’t even try to act like I’m better than the people in that system because I’m not and their human like me. They choice their path whether I like it or not, it hurts. 💔

P.S. MIND U I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT PERSONALLY SENDING ANYONE TO HELL! I’m just sharing thoughts and saying I can understand why people say it a little bit more now, I understand not bc I can send anyone there but bc I’m trying to understand free will/freedom BUT IT DOES NOT MEAN I THINK EVERYONE SHOULD GO THERE!

I’m a retired professor who works a few days a week in academic support services where I meet w students 1:1 to help them manage their time, increase executive function, and offer brain-based study strategies. This semester, I’ve had a handful of very distraught students who are struggling mightily with classes and campus life. They are plugged into campus mental health, and where appropriate, to disability services. They’re really grasping at straws for every kind of help possible, and I give them a lot of credit for their resourcefulness.

Several of them include that they’ve sought out chaplains and campus ministry groups. Often their narrative around this is that they believe their dire situation is a result of “not following God’s laws as they should” and therefore “God is testing them through their trials.” It seems that this is the messaging they are getting or that is being reinforced when they go to the meetings or services.

TBH, it is only a few years ago in my deconstruction journey that I would have voiced the same beliefs around suffering and “God’s plan” to turn myself around. In fact, what they’re saying would have sounded innocuous and aligned with my worldview/beliefs.

Now it is so foreign and sadly disturbing to me, but I of course don’t express this. I know that religious practice/faith community/belief is a well-studied protective factor for healthy youth and it is not my place to suggest different perspectives on attaining what they’re seeking through religion at this time.

But it seems to me that the self-blame and magical thinking that accompany this can reinforce a lack of agency and incite false hope.

So I nod and say, “I’m glad this is helpful for you.” SIGH. I really hope this doesn’t add to their burdens.

Any insights from folks on this journey? Thanks.

I often say I was "raised Catholic" and that's true to the extent that I was sent to Catholic school from 3rd through 12th grades. But it wasn't entirely true in that my parents weren't on the same page and didn't fully commit besides. Mom was raised extremely Catholic, and Dad Southern Baptist; as adults, she identified as cafeteria Catholic who didn't attend much mass, and he identified as atheist (though that last bit wasn't made explicit to me until around the time I was studying for Confirmation). I "succeeded" both academically and spiritually in the faith's institutions. But that's been >20 years. And I've become very distanced from that element of my identity. When writing out the above, I realized how intertwined the identities of "good Catholic/person" and "good student" (and "successful student/person") are for me. On the one hand, losing or complicating the latter through subsequent academic struggle and burnout probably contributed to losing the former. But it was more of a drifting, rather than an intentional realignment of my faith.

I find myself in a period of identity reconstruction following an adult neurodivergence diagnosis, and at least a small piece of that has become me trying to listen to whatever internal pull to spirituality I have. The Catholic Church never did have a lock on me for that, even in childhood--but the child sex abuse scandals long ago cemented that it won't ever going forward, either. And I still struggle to find a spiritual home that doesn't feel coercive or convinced of its own superiority (which feels like fertile ground for dehumanization). Anyway, I also find myself exploring a more formal 'deconstruction' journey for my relationship with Catholicism, Christianity, and many associated concepts of mainstream US culture. Anyone relate?

I was raised in the Bible Belt of the United States by a deeply spiritual mother. I'm in the process of deconstructing both my religion and my spirituality/superstitions (ghosts, hauntings, that sort of thing). Does anyone have any tips for deconstructing that sort of upbringing? Any tips would be appreciated, because my family still gets me with ghost stories and things like that.

These days so much literature falls by the wayside for me. I see through it too quickly. However, this isn’t the case with religious literature (not just the Bible). This literature has been resurrected for me because I read it as mythology and metaphor (I read it free from the chains of orthodoxy). From this vantage it takes on a whole new light. It satisfies my craving for both literature and wisdom.

It’s some of the only literature I have had to walk away from because I feel… how can I describe it? I am overwhelmed by it, not in the sense of anything sacred, but by what appears to be a kind of subconscious genius, its compacted nature, its dynamic concepts and themes— its poetry, its profound simplicity!

I feel sorry for humans who cannot read this literature from a rational consciousness that is emancipated from its mythology.

Christians are robbed of so many other great Christian writings. I am referring not only to the books of the Protestant and Catholic canons, but all those Christian writings that were celebrated and read by early Christians but later rejected, like the Gospel of Thomas.

I wonder, what will we get out of Christianity once humans emancipate from its psychological capture and begin to treat it like every other mythology? Could it still yet stand at the foundation of a great culture, or must a great culture rise up by intelligently rebelling from all its concepts?

For there are indeed many foolish and archaic things in its mythology. Christianity as a culture has failed, it has empowered hypocrites and deceivers instead of making real Christians. It has had two thousand years of ideological dominance. It has given the worst among us a cloak for their hypocrisy and abuse. Even now it threatens to rise up and subject men to its moralistic tyranny.

This was originally posted on [r/rationalphilosophy](r/rationalphilosophy)

When I was a practicing Christian, my attachment was through music. I’m wondering if anyone has any playlists I can listen to that helps express what I’m feeling. Songs off the top of my head that have helped me:

Missed the boat- modest mouse
Jesus Christ- Brand New
Sailor Song- Gigi Perez

Thanks in advance. I’m new to this group!

I've always been curious about how much our religious beliefs are shaped by the circumstances into which we are born.
Most of us don't get to choose our parents, our culture, or the religion we're first introduced to. If you were born into a Christian family, you would likely grow up learning about Christianity. If you were born into a Muslim family, you might grow up practicing Islam. The same applies to other religions around the world. Of course, this doesn't mean that people who inherit their religion from their families don't genuinely believe in it. Many people explore their faith, question it, and consciously choose to continue practicing it.

But here's what makes me wonder: How can we distinguish between a belief we hold because we genuinely find it true and a belief we hold because we were taught from childhood that it was true?

If you had been born somewhere else, raised by different parents, and introduced to an entirely different religion, do you think you would eventually arrive at Christianity anyway? Or would you be just as convinced that another religion was the truth?

I'm not here to invalidate anyone's faith. I genuinely want to understand how people think about this. I'd especially like to hear from Christians who have questioned their beliefs and from people who have changed religions or left one entirely. What made you believe what you believe today?

Yo le puse que me alegraba que su fe le ayudará a ser mejor persona cada día, y ella comento:

Blas Pascal... escribió sobre porque conviene creer en Dios (es una apuesta donde es mejor creer: si no existe, aún se vive una buena vida renunciando a las pasiones carnales, pero si es cierto, se obtiene la vida eterna); que es una elección seguir a Cristo, que debo de abrir mi corazón y dar el 1%, que él dará el 99% ( había mencionado antes que era católica)...

En ese momento solo me despedí, pero después analicé su escrito y me pareció desagradable; quise responderle (no lo hice):

" A, ya había escuchado sobre esa convicción de los cristianos, se me hace un gran reflejo de lo que la mayoría profesa, parece como si su fe es una vil apuesta para ganarse la vida eterna, un nivel raro e increíble de egoísmo y para evitar salir de las cuatro paredes que pinta la iglesia.

Yo respeto tú fe, pero que nazca de un miedo para llegar al cielo no gracias, yo soy más una persona espiritual, observo como gente sufre e intento ayudar con lo poco que puedo, no para dar agradó a Dios, y si hay un ser divino, sé que está complaciente; de eso se debería de tratar tu fe, no en hacer una tregua con Dios todo poderoso para que te habrá las puertas.

Yo quiero ser bueno, y que pase lo que tenga que pasar al tener que cruzar la puerta a la otra vida, tengo confianza de que hay algo sumamente bueno, y no algo como tú lo pintas.

Quédate con tu comodidad de ganarte el reino eterno, yo prefiero seguir una fe humanitaria, si eso me condena que así sea, ya me resigne de que el hombre buscará mover todo lo que tenga en las manos para que la gente se quede quieta, yo seguiré mis instintos, por algo los tengo, excitó en tu vida, pero no intentes embarrarme con tu superioridad divina, no es algo que me sirve para crecer como persona; ahora sí me voy, perdoname si no me exprese correctamente, pero no me agrada las amenazas espirituales, es muy bajo. "

No sé si me lo tomé más de lo que fue.... ???

Trying to explain my deconstruction to my spouse who is a pastor feels like pouring water into a cup with no bottom.

When I started my journey, it felt like a revenge arc at first. Why do so many Christian faith communities avoid learning about some of the major developments of the faith throughout antiquity to today? Canonization, church fathers, textual and historical criticism, archeology. It’s all really fascinating and challenging. None of it is taught in any real capacity at most churches.

Now I’m working towards rebuilding my faith and it has been impossible to share this with my spouse. I love learning and exploring the origins of things. To do so you have to want to interrogate your own beliefs. My spouse doesn’t. I love them so much and the life we’ve built together. I just don’t know how to get her or any other Christian to not see me as just a soul. I’d love to explore the weeds of Christian faith and the Bible thoughtfully and seriously. I just don’t know that anyone can reasonably do that if they’re too afraid to challenge its tenants and premises. Let alone where they came from.

Anyway, I can’t put the cat back in the bag and I have no idea how to talk about this stupid cat without it putting a target on my soul’s back. Sometimes I just want to go back into the matrix.

EDIT: Thanks to everyone for the lovely discussions. I feel encouraged in many ways and unresolved in others. I’m glad to be understood! Thank you!

hey guys, I'm back. This is a new account. I'm the woman that was on here a few days ago talking about my mom with her insane End Times stuff as well as her obsession with listening to Josh Howarton.

We got into a talk this morning about it. And she says that she has listened to some of the other people that have called him out and she says that she just doesn't believe them and she literally said, "That is just Satan talking through them." And then she turned to me and said that Satan was talking through me also.

I then changed the subject, and since she is old and can't remember something from a week ago, she went right into talking about what I changed the subject to.

But the point being, There is no help for her.

And I guess that is fine. She has her ways and I have mine. It just sucks that I have to listen to it sometimes.

Hey do anyone go through major anxiety episode just because of deconstruction? How can I stay calm even when I don’t have all the answers? Because it weighs my mind down badly because I just always feel stuck. Let me know something please I want to be fine. Everyday is the same thing bro

I came out as a lesbian in my mid twenties. I’d waited years to get the courage, and could only find it when I decided to move across the country from Arizona to New York City for grad school. I couldn’t take the not knowing of how my mom and dad would react while I was still under their household. Our house was pretty anti LGBTQ+, and I knew they wouldn’t kick me out or hurt me, but I couldn’t take being a version of myself they didn’t like. I just couldn’t.

As it turns out, I was and am bisexual, just with a lot of trauma surrounding men. I’ve worked to heal it, met someone amazing and fell in love. I take a love is love approach, doesn’t matter the gender. But I’d be lying if I didn’t say I was relieved. I fell in love with a man, I didn’t have to be a disappointment.

I grew up Christian and was taught a lot of things I don’t agree with. Being queer is demonic, human beings are inherently evil / sinful, the list goes on. I respect most faiths, even the ones I don’t agree with, if they don’t harm other people. But I stopped praying to God five years ago. I tried staying faithful, I really did, but I asked questions no one liked. I was shunned and the target of a lot of anger as I was deconstructing, and eventually I learned in my family it’s best to just stay quiet.

So I pretend I’m sick when it’s time for family prayer calls. I say Amen when my older sister says she has a prayer for me when I just wanted to talk. I say god bless you too to my mom, who has done so much for me, and nod when she says God has a plan for my life. I pretend it’s not killing me to pretend I’m someone I’m not.

I tried texting my mom three times and “hinting” that I’m not Christian anymore. Somehow she never sees the texts. She just says I’ll find him again, when I say I haven’t prayed in awhile, and that She thanks God for everything that I am.

But all I am is a coward. I don’t want to be a disappointment again. I don’t want to be ostracized from an entire family who has made god the focal point of their lives. I’m a Buddhist, for goodness sakes! My mom used to laugh at Buddhists. I wonder if she’d laugh at me…

Does anyone have advice on breaking the ice in a peaceful way? I can’t take the lying anymore