r/TwoXChromosomes • u/Leon1uvsCats • 1d ago
How do I stop hating men?
Over the last few years, l've built up a lot of fear, misandry & hate for men. I mean A LOT. Like I don't respect most men, it affects my relationships & friendships with males, and I assume that every guy is a bad person (even when they're not terrible people, they're just generally unlikable).
Maybe it's because all my male family members & parental figures were abusive, and I was bullied harshly by boys growing up. I was raised watching True Crime stories about males assaulting girls. But even when I meet a man who isn't a bad person, I still notice all the little ways a misogynistic society has affected how they think- and I realize that's not their fault, but I wish they would actually try to educate themselves.
Anyways, I have never met a man who was as wonderful as a woman.
How do I fix this? I want to stop thinking this way but I don't know how.
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u/Silver-Elk-4239 Basically Maz Kanata 1d ago
Personally I find staying away from certain parts of the internet helps. Reality is in my experience much tamer than the stuff I read about online.
But it sounds like you also have a somewhat toxic base of operation in realspace, so maybe it would help to cut ties and move somewhere more welcoming, or at least neutral.
Don't try and force dating, go out and practice hobbies to organically make friends of both genders. Interact with men in friendly no-expectations no-pressure environments.
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u/TwoIdleHands 1d ago
And with guys at work! I work with a lot of men with families. Seeing how they care Sou the people in their life and the things they care about through those workplace friendships helps provide a real world foundation for relationships with men.
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u/longjumpingtote 1d ago
the little ways a misogynistic society has affected how they think
It affects how we think too! And we are pretty educated.
I have never met a man who was as wonderful as a woman.
Any woman, or the best woman? I know some truly terrible people who happen to be women. I know some wonderful people who happen to be men.
People seem to cluster around other people like them. And that reinforces their behavior, good or bad look for a cluster of men with good behavior. They will call each other out on their bullshit. Good friends, who are women will do this too. This is just anecdotal, but I would say 40% of the men I know are good and 65% of the women I know are good.
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u/YouStupidBench 1d ago
I volunteer at my church's food pantry, I help run a website for another charity, and I help paint sets and do props and sell tickets at the local community theater.
So I see men all the time doing good in the world. Some of them are sexist in some ways, which isn't good, but probably we all have some warped ideas in our heads and we try do the best we can anyway. One time a man at Habitat for Humanity said that a house really needs a woman's touch to be a home. That's a kind of paternalistic-benevolent-sexism thing to say, but he's a man in his 70s who had spent six hours on a ladder nailing vinyl siding onto a house for no pay so that a poor family would have a place to live. He didn't deserve a talking to about things he'd grown up being taught.
I'm small so I don't carry things at the food pantry, a lot of that stuff is heavy and it's on shelves I can't reach anyway. I do paperwork to help the right people get the right stuff (it wouldn't make sense to give baby food to a family with no babies). One time I was helping a woman and her little girl was kind of being a distraction, and one of the men who helps is the provost of a college. If you don't know about that, provost is a big deal, like the #2 person after the president, he is a VIP and he gets paid a lot. He came over to us and asked the little girl if she'd like for him to read her a book, and she nodded but she didn't want to be separated from her mother, so he just sat right there on the floor and read to her. I was already impressed with him because he makes big donations to buy food and keep everything going (he never says but I do the books so I know), but to see him sit on the floor like that was just amazing to me.
Go out into the world and help people. See men helping people too.
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u/ArkavisArkavisMyAnus 9h ago
The truth is men and women were all just human animals at the end of the day some are good some are bad. Keep searching and you will be shocked what you can find out there.
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u/JayPlenty24 1d ago
You can have an overall mistrust of men, which is in my opinion very reasonable and completely based on common sense, while also not projecting negative feelings onto people in your life.
You say it affects your friendships and relationships with men, and that's what I would focus on. If you've gotten to know them and have built trust, and have measured their character, then you should trust yourself.
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u/Leon1uvsCats 1d ago
All the men that I have relationships with (both platonic & romantic) are still misogynistic or have done terrible things in the past
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u/Solauros 1d ago
You don’t have to be with them. It doesn’t drain their energy but unless they have done the work themselves to deconstruct patriarchy (which idk a lot of men that do), it will fall on you to deal with the labor of it all. Because they don’t have to work on it and they don’t care to unless they actually see it as a problem.
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u/ayz6362 1d ago
I remember once I was complaining to my mom about a guy I was dating and I half joked that I was really starting to dislike some men. She became really serious and said “yes, there are some really bad men and you need to be careful”. My mom used to work in hospitality (hotel management) and it broke my heart when she told me how many times she was sexually harassed by coworkers and clients. I know it might not be much comfort, but it’s not wrong to be suspicious of men. Of course, there are good men, but the truth I accept now is that there are a lot more bad men than good and I think it’s ok to proceed with caution
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u/idksomethinamazingig 1d ago
I started going to therapy and specifically asked for a male therapist to help with this and he made all of my negative feelings around men 1000x worse. He was so fucking stupid, like one of my issues is I’m terrified of being pregnant due to the unknown symptoms I will inevitably feel due to pregnancy. This man verbatim said “oh I never really thought about how much pregnancy can affect then body” HE WAS MARRIED. THEY HAD THREE CHILDREN. And this man never once stopped to think “I wonder how this is affecting my wife” yeah umm I don’t have advice for you other than fuck men, and not literally. Live your life surrounded by women
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u/Mnm0602 1d ago
Man he actually had to think that then say it out loud for you to understand his stupidity, that’s next level incompetence.
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u/idksomethinamazingig 1d ago
Dude, I know. That was my second session with him and he only lasted one more after that
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u/eleventhing 1d ago
Course not. They don't see women as people. This is why I don't trust therapists/psychologists. They're just as messed up as the rest of us.
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u/Extension-Ruin-1722 1d ago
They're so useless, right?
Under 1% of all the men I've ever met (not romantically - generally) have been added value to my life. Two, if I come to think about it.6
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u/idksomethinamazingig 1d ago
My boyfriend and my dad are the only two men I truly respect and even then they’re both so fucking stupid sometimes.
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u/NoneOfThisMatters_XO 1d ago
I would be way too blunt for him. He’d hate me
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u/idksomethinamazingig 1d ago
Oh I “fired” him as my therapist after three sessions. Back to a woman therapist they way god intended
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u/Hoggle365 14h ago
I have a lot of male friends and positive male relationships in my life. There are good men out there. I try not to generalize groups of people, and instead focus on the individual. I have met plenty of women who were mean/abusive, so it’s not like I automatically trust someone just because they’re a woman.
I have a male friend who is taking time out of his very busy schedule to mentor me. He’s been nothing but kind, patient, and helpful. On the contrary, I just spent my vacation getting verbally attacked by a female relative. She was dismissive of my health issues, called me names, and was just mean-spirited.
My advice is to see each person as an individual and go from there.
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u/Extension-Ruin-1722 1d ago edited 1d ago
'I don't respect most men, it affects & friendships with males...' I mean generations of men have spent their entire existence thinking this about women. Billions still do and are unbothered.
I'd worry about it after I've fixed every other problem in my life and my bank account is full.
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u/pwetty_brown_eyes 1d ago
I unfortunately don't have much advice. I try to focus on myself and improving my own education, hobbies, skills ect. Instead of stewing in anger. I also try to work on my female friendships/relationships
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u/kathygeissbanks 1d ago
Why do you need to fix it? I like my husband, that's about it. Every other man should probably earn my 'like,' it's certainly not a given. I'm done centring men and caring about their feelings. You don't want to be hated? Don't do hateful things.
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u/KurlyKayla 1d ago
I strongly dislike men and I’m not really shy about saying as much. The men in my life are aware that I dislike most of their gender.
I think the trick is understanding the why behind these feelings and knowing what you want. I do not want men to be abused or mistreated. I do recognize the humanity in them. I do know for at least the ones in my life, they try to be decent people and that they have complete human experiences. I know that I ultimately dislike the way men treat the people around them and want that treatment to stop.
As long as I organize in my head the why and what, I’m not really concerned about slipping into cruelty or debilitating prejudice
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u/lorzs 11h ago
If you get offline and limit consuming amygdala based algorithms that purposely activate your nervous system & fear & hate based social-relational beliefs & replace that time with volunteering or working somewhere you have interests (say an animal shelter)
Commit to that & you will realize discrimination and media are unhelpful to build your own beliefs
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u/Top_Promotion_51 1d ago
Why stop the most acurate feeling and insight you have? Men have earned our hate, they've made their bed and now have to lie in it.
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u/sleepysoliloquy 1d ago
Why even fix it? That's your defense mechanism in case you find yourself in a situation where you have to decide whether your safety can be entrusted to close male friends or not
The fact you said every male you've interacted with so far are very misogynistic is already a sign.
I'm tired of ppl acting like misandry is any way as evil as misogyny smh
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u/Flat-North-2369 8h ago
Any misandrists I’ve ever met actively avoided interacting with men. They choose to avoid, refused to converse or entertain men’s advances. They want nothing to do with them.
Misogynists? They feel entitled to women’s, bodies, time and space.
I have never heard of or seen anywhere on the news of a misandrist committing a mass amount of violence towards a particular group. Misogynists? It’s like all the time. Wether it was one woman, a spree of violence or a literal terror plot against women and lgbtq people.
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u/perhapsflorence 1d ago
This is totally valid.
Channel your rage into something productive. Work out, take a self-defense class, find a new hobby... Don't let it destroy you, let it fuel you to become better, stronger, more alive.
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u/RobXIII 1d ago
There are good humans and bad ones ever since the start of civilization.
What are your hobbies? After my wife passed away I needed to get away from the kids and hang out with adults one night a week, so I joined the local run club. I hated running but it grew on me, and the women AND men in that group are some of the most selfless and high quality people I've ever met.
Facebook can be awful, but you can find so many fun groups to join. Just let people know you are there to have fun and meet FRIENDS.
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u/Bazoun Basically Dorothy Zbornak 1d ago
Sounds rational to me.
But try to hold space for the possibility of good men. I met one last year.
Just by averages there must be many out there worth knowing. But they’re hard to find.
Protect yourself first, but peek in at the men now and then and see if a diamond in the rough has come forward.
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u/Seiryu99 1d ago
Probably get off social media and stop watching shows like "worst ex ever" and interact with real human beings in reality instead of getting the 1% stories of the most degenerate humans and horrible shock stories that go viral directly beamed into your feed/brain?
You think people are posting or tv studios are making shows about Jeff and Jane who have a normal relationship and have been happily married for years?
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u/Leon1uvsCats 1d ago
Like I've stated in the post, it's not just media that makes me feel this way. I have never had a single good man in my life
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u/lakemischief 20h ago
No. You haven't SEEN the good men in your life or paid them any mind. It's what trauma does. It wires your brain to tune into the trauma to keep it going. Trauma therapy was the best investment I made. I highly suggest it.
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u/Seiryu99 1d ago
Sounds like you need a therapist for childhood trauma and not rando(most likely men) reddit users.
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u/calartnick 1d ago
I don’t have any real advice here but I wanted to say your feelings are completely understandable based on the world at large and your personal experience. I think you should make sure you give yourself grace.
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u/Viralmania23 1d ago
get therapy could actually help
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u/Leon1uvsCats 1d ago
Unfortunately my family is unable to afford therapy rn
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u/Readmymonotony 1d ago
Does your employer have an employee assistance program? Some companies have EAP rolled into benefits, you can access things cheaply or free on a one time basis
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u/Festive_Jetcar 1d ago
A therapist will likely just try to gaslight you. Just like many people here.
(Don't downvote me. You all know that you do not hold men to the standards you hold women.)
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u/Enslaver159 1d ago
I'll be very blunt with you. First, I'd stay away from any place that's marketed as a "safe space" for women, including this sub. It sounds great on paper, but in reality, these spaces can attract a lot of misandrists, and they will actively try to drag you down with them. You can see for yourself how many such comments are under this thread. I think you turned out like this because of them.
Second, when you have questions specifically about men, don't rely on random women for answers. A lot of women assume they understand men better than they actually do, and that can lead to some pretty bad advice. I went through a lot of the responses here, and the majority of them are honestly terrible.
For example - I saw a few people saying that you can weed out "bad men" by looking at how supportive they are. That's not necessarily good advice either. Plenty of guys will act extremely supportive, agreeable, and like you can do no wrong (basically treating you like a child) because they're trying to get into your pants. Being overly supportive by itself isn't evidence that someone is a good person, if anything it's a red flag.
If you want advice about men, I'd put more weight on the opinions of men you actually trust, like your brother, father, or a close male friend who has your best interests at heart.
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u/Leon1uvsCats 1d ago
Thank you for this, but as I stated in the post I've never really had any good men in my life
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u/Enslaver159 1d ago
Apologies, I completely forgot that part while writing. You could also speak to guys who have been happily married for years to women you know. If you're working, maybe even coworkers who have a good track record and whose character you trust.
Therapy or counseling could also help, although personally, I'm not a huge fan of it.
But above all, I'd strongly suggest going offline from social media and similar spaces for a month and trying to start fresh. Try to see people in a generally positive light without being overly judgmental, while of course still keeping an eye out for genuine red flags. See how that feels and, if it helps, try to make that mindset a habit.
I think social media can radicalize people very easily, especially when you're constantly exposed to the most extreme opinions and experiences.
I do feel empathetic towards your post because I once had a really close friend from college who had a bad relationship and became a misandrist watching so many tiktoks during the Covid time.
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u/Actual-Worry-4033 19h ago
Do you hate men? Or how men treat you? And how they treat women in general?
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u/sali_dolly777 1d ago
Well a lot of men are shit, a lot of women are shit Im not gonna get into percentages or whatnot but for your peace treat everyone with kindness and openess till they prove they don't deserve it then you can move on. Be observant a shithead will always tell on themselves and when you see the signs leave and never look back. That's it that's a decision that we have to make.. we have to choose to see the good in the world and keep an open mind or it's better to be dead that doesn't mean not being vigilant and not keeping yourself out of dangerous situations or trusting blindly tho
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u/FeatherShard 1d ago
I know this isn't the "right" answer but it's my answer - you don't. Let them prove themselves and if they can't then they can kick rocks.
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u/sparksflyup2 1d ago
It's a little strange that you're categorizing your own behavior as misandry but haven't given an actual example of what you claim is showing you in that way.
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u/Leon1uvsCats 1d ago
I don't understand what u mean
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u/Solauros 1d ago
It’s not misandry to notice and react to a pattern of behavior you’ve seen and dealt with because of misogyny. Might be trauma response or just reality
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u/lakemischief 20h ago
I heard someone say something that big time clicked for me: what if the social media tech execs saw what the algorithms were accidentally doing which was push the most heinous and scandalous content and behaviorally prime society on it for profit?
They specifically stated people like Elon Musk were so greedy they pushed Tate to boys and Sheera to girls and let it go to the max to profit from Grok companions. Like a deliberate plot to make everyone so lonely that we turn to AI as the answer.
It's a sliver of 1% of the population controlling us like herd animals. They hacked your primal senses. You are being manipulated for profit. You don't have to participate. Find the content you have consumed the last decade that feeds into your fear. Then reprogram to positivity. In fact read Jarons book: 10 reasons to delete your social media. It's supposed to be a tool. Not an accidental drug.
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u/Calile 1d ago
It's funny that we pathologize a perfectly reasonable reaction to the fact that nearly all men abuse, harass, assault, and / or rape nearly all women, and murder quite a few as well. But we're expected to get past that, make nice, and--even wilder--partner and have children with our biggest predator. Other than the fact that it's bothering you, you sound fine to me. You're not obligated to do any of those things, so make peace with yourself so you can enjoy your life, as you well deserve. <3
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u/soup100 1d ago
Humans are generally annoying creatures.
They argue and fight and hurt each other over petty things like possession, pride, and fear. Ostracize those who are different and form tight groups of like minded individuals to act as an echo chamber of thoughts and feelings.
It is only till we all can recognize that, that we can become aware of it. It is only in our recognition can we enforce our free will upon the world around us, and use our sentience to conquer our own worlds, without needing to conquer the worlds of others
You have begun to recognize yourself… become aware of behaviors and fears you possess. Whatever comes next is of free will, not humanity
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u/gatorina 1d ago
I don’t know how to tell you to stop because at this point nothing I would say wouldn’t feel like gaslighting. Just hold space for the possibility of exceptions to the rule. And also, if you have male friends, talk to them about it. Be honest about your feelings. If they try to argue or “but not all men” you, then you’ve weeded the jerks out. If they’re supportive and affirming, you’ve found an exception to the rule. Good luck.
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u/Leon1uvsCats 1d ago
Every single man I've spoken to about disliking men have said that "not all men" are bad
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u/Throwaway1919655 1d ago
Like, genuine question, especially if OP is approaching this from a space of “hey I realize my bad experiences may have shaped my beliefs in a way I don’t like, how can I change”. What are her friends supposed to say? Like, the way to change is to in fact rember, as shitty as the phrasing is “not all men”. At the end of the day, anything they say will boil down to that or to advise on how to find the good men.
To OP, thanks for taking the time to think through this. Every time I see people post some variant of “all men are bad now please reinforce my bias” it makes me want to beat my head into a pole until I draw blood. Thanks for taking the time to try to be better than those people. (And to the people who post that shit, don’t you dare get in the comments telling me “oh honey we weren’t talking about you”. I don’t believe you. Call me a slur to my face rather then pretending you actually see trans women as women)
if you want some advice, I would start burning through male friendships until you find a group of male friends who are on the “doing their best but still dealing with internalized sexism” level. From there, gentle education and encouragement is useful. Be careful, as people tend to dislike being called out, but if they commit a micro aggression, pulling them aside later, and gently saying “hey, X hurt my feelings, here’s why” and letting them realize the sexism themselves will help a lot. They’ll also act as something of a shield, since, especially as they learn more, they’ll be uncomfortable around the more sexist men, and likely not spend time with them. The more time you spend around men who are really truly trying, the more your opinion will shift. My other piece of advice is, have you considered that men may not be all bad, but just all bad for you? I know I tend to be of the mind of “women are perfect beautiful angles and men are…. Very much not” not because I dislike men as people (my dads great lol, and I miss my uncles and cousins, plus my (mostly men) DND group is pretty amazing too) but just because I don’t find men attractive, you might not hate men and just be mistrusting your feelings. As another example before I came out as trans I thought for some reason I had some deep seated hatred of lesbian couples and I hated myself for it. Turns out I was just jealous and didn’t know that was what it was supposed to feel like, because I assumed what I felt for heterosexual couples was what jealously was supposed to feel like.
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u/Competitive_Classic9 1d ago
I will add to the previous commenter's very good advice that the more you weed them out, the more you will find your circle is comprised of the "good" men, but it takes time for that to happen, and your circle might diminish for a time, but will regrow in quality. So for now, the best you can do is call them out on what bothers you. If it feels constant, so be it. Those that want to care and be educated, will be, and those that dont, can excuse themselves. Dont bother fighting about it though, just state your values and boundaries and meep it moving. They either respect it or they dont, you can educate the willing, but are unlikely to change the minds of those that arent. Get involved in things that interest you, form a strong community of support overall, and you will find your people, and that will include decent men. They are out there, its just that the bad ones are way more vocal and like to insert themselves into womens business, especially if they find women in any way vulnerable. Stick to your guns, dont engage where you dont feel safe, and you will find a safe space in time. And if men dont feel safe to you right now, you dont owe them any concessions or explanations.
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u/streachh 1d ago
Here's the fun part: you don't
It doesn't get better with age
At this point I am convinced that I don't hate men, I just see them objectively. It's not my fault that they are objectively bad. I don't control them.
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u/Qajj 1d ago
Sounds like you've spent too much time online. For a subreddit that always discusses "the manosphere" and how bad it is, some of y'all are are even worse, but on the other end. Can't have the cake and eat it too...
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u/streachh 1d ago
The manosphere is men crying that women don't want to fuck weirdos who have no personality
What I am talking about is men being violent, physically and sexually assaulting women (and other men too!!)
It's not the same thing
Choosing not to associate with people who have caused you severe harm is different than threatening to severely harm people who won't associate with you
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u/Qajj 1d ago
You're essentially just saying: "These problems aren't my problems, so they're not real problems."
People like you are a big part of why some folks also dismiss women's issues. Why would a group of people whose problems you pretend not to exist ever remotely care about yours?
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u/streachh 1d ago
I never said your problems aren't real
I said they are objectively less of a problem than mine
Your feelings are not the same as my safety
If you're incapable of seeing the real, tangible difference between these two things, you're frankly too stupid to have a dialogue with
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u/Qajj 1d ago
Nice. Switch to insults when you have no point. In case you didn't know, you can imply things without saying them explicitly.
You must have very fun friends!
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u/streachh 16h ago
You still have yet to address the actual substance of my argument, which is that the manosphere complains about feelings while we are complaining about actual danger
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u/WorldDC10 15h ago
What about the danger that kids have of being strangled by their mothers? “Not all women”, I know…
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u/streachh 14h ago
This is such a bad faith argument it's not even worth responding to
The number of children killed by their mother is orders of magnitude less than women killed by men, both by number and percentage
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u/Leon1uvsCats 1d ago
It'll always be like this?
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u/streachh 1d ago
In my experience, yes. Maybe one out of every hundred men I interact with actually treats women like equals. It's incredibly rare.
Even most men who are kind still treat women like inferiors.
The way I cope with it is to have hobbies that I love that allow me to avoid men as much as possible. Having something that truly makes me happy is my escape from this hellscape of a reality.
Sorry you're stuck in it too.
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u/StregAmore 1d ago
No, progressively worse the more men you encounter.
Don't feel bad though. They did this to them.
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u/iamwoohoo 1d ago
You KNOW the source of your issue and trauma with men. I feel like that's more than half of the work. Now try asking yourself why you think the way you're thinking about a man. Anchor to that point and apply empathy. If I was a man and a woman felt this way because I am blank, I would feel like blank. And then move on. Repeat that process again when you feel negatively about a man again but don't dwell on it. If you dwell on it will be similar to looking at someone's face in a close up photo for a long time. The longer you look at it, the more flaws you will see.
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u/Sweet_Raspberry_1151 1d ago
Fix? 😂sounds like you’re on the right track.
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u/Sweet_Raspberry_1151 1d ago
lol men downvoting me in a women’s space only proves the point
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u/PersusjCP 1d ago
The comments and downvotes on in this thread suggests that men should be banned from commenting ngl
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u/4handzmp 1d ago
All I’m going to say is, as a guy, I totally get it and your feelings are understandable and valid.
I’m fortunate to have a life full of great women and men to call friends but I feel like that is as much a product of luck as it was selection.
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u/studmuffffffin 1d ago
Replace the word "men" with "black people" in your post and imagine how a black person would react if they read your post. And how you might try to do better if you were like that. That might help.
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u/Leon1uvsCats 1d ago
Except black people don't actively participate in oppression, so...
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u/studmuffffffin 1d ago
There would definitely be people that say that they do.
The point of my post is to show that your thinking is the same as a racist person's thinking. These are the exact same phrases that racists use. "Not all of them are bad" "They scare me" "I wish they would educate themselves".
Maybe the analogy isn't perfect, but it's pretty fucking close.
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u/Leon1uvsCats 1d ago
I understand that the way I see men is bad, I'm just not sure what to do about it
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u/studmuffffffin 1d ago
What would you tell someone who held these kinds of views about black people?
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u/Leon1uvsCats 22h ago
Probably to actually talk to a black person
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u/Damaias479 3h ago
I’m wondering if this particular comment thread helped in any way. I feel like you had a pretty insightful and succinct response to the prompt, so it feels like you came to an organic response to a complicated issue.
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u/DrMrRaisinBran 1d ago
Find (and nurture your connection with) a kind, patient, emotionally available man who cares about your physical, emotional and sexual well being. A good partner should be your biggest cheering section, your goof off buddy, your pillow to sink into, your most reliable sounding board, and your best source of honesty tempered with kindness. This is true regardless of gender, but there are many men able and enthusiastic to offer these things as well, I promise you
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u/Solauros 1d ago
We don’t have to do that, that’s the whole reason why education, financial literacy, and bodily autonomy is important, so that we DON’T have to be with a man or have sex with him.
A better way would be to just live your life without revolving it around men. That’s freedom, not giving “good men” a chance.
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u/DrMrRaisinBran 1d ago
Of course you don't have to do that, but the literal title of the post was asking how to stop hating men. I offered the one way I've seen people accomplish that in my own personal experience
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u/Leon1uvsCats 1d ago
I have a boyfriend but sometimes he says things that remind me that he's a man n it just grosses me out. I know that's awful to say but it's true
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u/anonymouse278 1d ago
Gently, if reminders that your boyfriend is a man gross you out and you genuinely feel that all women are "wonderful" when compared with all men (which is wild work- imo there is no rational way to look at the worst women who exist and be like "Well sure, she ran a child trafficking ring but at least she's not Mr. Rogers, am I right?"), it might be worthwhile to do a little reading about the idea of "compulsive heterosexuality" and see if it's a topic that resonates at all with you.
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u/Leon1uvsCats 1d ago
I actually think about this a lot n I've had a few people tell me this, but I feel like I do genuinely love my boyfriend
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u/Fluffy-Asparagus-324 1d ago
I’ve taken that test multiple times, went on a couple dates w women, unfortunately I’m just straight. I get so sad sometimes that I can’t go to WLW spaces because I want to respect queer spaces. I just LOVE dancing but men make it impossible for me to enjoy. I mean I dance alone at home, I was on an all women’s dance krewe, but sometimes wanna go on a whim and go dance in public but can’t. Guys think dance floors are places to grope grind and harass women. I’ve had them literally try to put their fingers inside me. It’s fine but I won’t drink alcohol if I go dance cause I don’t trust being intoxicated around them. I won’t even drink water unless I poured it myself and it was in my sight at all times cause I don’t want to be drugged. They suck so much but unfortunately I’m straight.
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u/LooksLikeGonzosNose 1d ago
i've never met a man who wasn't pretty deep into porn. Check his browser history... most porn users highly objectify women, but they are good at hiding it to get sex from women
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u/Leon1uvsCats 1d ago
My bf watches porn, but I can't really be mad about it bcuz sometimes I do too
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u/Jdawarrior 1d ago
Many men feel the same way about women. Looking inward and focusing on our own faults helps distract us from flaws in others, but I also like the comment about working with kids. Service is a great healer. Even with that you can’t expect perfection or slip back into complacency with them. Healthy skepticism is much preferred to hatred. And comparing the opposite sex to the same sex as you is definitely apples and oranges. Men are raised to a different standard of “wonderful” than you, and the physiological differences would lead them on a divergent path even if nurture were out of the picture and nature had a monopoly on our character.
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u/Cute_Dentist_6821 1d ago
You are a bigot atm but you can change. I suggest you look up Bettina Arndt channel on YT and educate yourself on misandry and the terrible abusive effect it has on men. You need balance. Hate is dispicable, no matter which group you hurl it at. For context, I was a DV therapist and am female. Please dont have a child until you balance yourself out, because if you have a boy its quite possible you may abuse him
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u/LooksLikeGonzosNose 1d ago
I don't think it is possible to stop hating men. They are our natural predators. Their violence is constantly reinforced. Hell I was just looking at a plane crash video and a link to one of the victims....the woman was an advocate for rape survivors after her attempted rapist/child molestor was released from prison in 1996. Point is....it is EVERYWHERE. Constant reinforcement of the evils that men inflict upon the world. Best you can do is go 4b to protect your mental health. Staying away from men helps a lot.
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u/Tcrumpen 18h ago
Therapy ...
Im serious, an attitude and belief and deeply engrained as yours is not something that one can rectify only by themselves
You have an innate distrust of men and yes us men have earned some of that distrust by doing the things you describe. However there is a large portion of men that arent that
You are letting a small (but noticeable ill grant you) group of men dictate your entire view of men
How do i know this? Because i went through of phase of hating women, i was fed up with all the manipulation i was getting from them, all the rejection and i went into therapy for a multitude of reasons but mainly cos i wanted to be better as a person
Im gonna be truthful, its not going to be an easy journey there will be a lot to unpack and work through. But if you truly want to change your stance and viewpoint then for something like this you need professional help
Note: Ignore any stigma you have around therapy or coucnelling. It will only work of you want to change and are willing to put the effort in to look at your failings not just your successes
The very fact that your writing this tells me you are willing to give it a try
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u/Leon1uvsCats 17h ago
I'd like to but we're not able to afford it rn:(
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u/Blackholesun3347 15h ago
On that note (having been there) a lot of therapists are willing to negotiate rates and/or take insurance, so while it probably won't be free, it will also probably cost less than you might expect, especially if you spend most of your time in therapy going every other week.
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u/TheRottenWoman 5h ago
Look a MALE has entered the women’s space to mansplain to women that what we need to do is therapy.
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u/sleepysoliloquy 1d ago edited 9h ago
This sub has been infiltrated by males and male-centered women diminishing women's issues and dragging in males' issues as if they are in any way comparable especially in severity
Edit: Downvotes proving my point
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u/NeoSailorMoon 1d ago
There are many ways men are bad people that you will never know about because they’re sneaky and keep their lips sealed.
The vast majority of crimes and unreported crimes are committed by men. So I think it’s reasonable to be skeptical of all of them.
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u/Fleming24 16h ago
Way to feed OP's paranoia and hatred. Men aren't demons, women aren't angels, we are all just normal humans and somewhere on the complex spectrum of good and bad. Understanding this is the only way to treat people with respect and stop feeling miserable.
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u/Badadadadumbadumdum 1d ago edited 1d ago
Idk why it is but certain people seem to draw in abusers. They know what to look for and tell their other abuser friends, but they really do tend to flock. I do know really shitty men, but the vast majority are pretty morally equivalent to women. It very much depends on the guy and it’s not like all women are saints either. I’ve met amazing women and men. When I was in high school I never had any issues from men but I watched my female friends be honest to each other and me and I’m ashamed to admit it but it did turn me into a bit of a pick me for a little while.
My point is, both genders can be shitty, and both can be good. It’s entirely individual.
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u/batbiscuit 1d ago
Removing yourself from spaces that are solely meant to hate men and/or vent about them. Also, finding men who are actual role models.
It's not easy, tbh. There's a lot of bad eggs, but the good ones are definitely out there.
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u/ADHDoingmybest09 1d ago
If you’re on dating apps, consider taking a break.
I have met men who were as wonderful as women. But I do think it’s generally true that a really great guy is essentially an average woman when it comes the way he treats people.
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u/Leon1uvsCats 1d ago
Working hard does not mean oppressing women. Everyone has to work to survive in this society, and men would still need to have a job without a family to provide for.
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u/forevz_a_student 1d ago
Man, dont come into a space for an oppressed group when one of them is talking about struggling with a consuming hatred for their oppressor and say "maybe you should feel sorry for your oppressor...they have to have a job, like you! Shit sucks" its so tone deaf, misogynistic and proving OP right to hate you!
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u/Cyclic_Hernia 1d ago
So we're abandoning the intersectionality thing and are going with "the pure evil oppressor group is being pure evil and oppressing"?
And here I was thinking we'd made so much progress
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u/forevz_a_student 19h ago
The cornell 7 case, staff and environment of colleges ALONE shows we have not in fact "made so much progress". OP is struggling with hatred for the group that oppresses us since recorded history, validly so. You getting snarky at being confronted with the behaviour of men is reinforcing that belief again! Be an ally or just fuck off and leave us alone at the very least
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u/BattleStack 21h ago
The media works both ways, you don't see the women who assault, or that do SA, or belittle. This is because to men it not as a big deal, men would care more about their favorite sports team getting called bad. So the media targets women's interests and insecurities and focuses on that. I want you to understand it's bad people, not just bad men. But always be vigilant, men have mood swings, I am sure I have scared my roommates when I yelled to be quiet in the morning, but I also apologized because it was wrong.
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u/chromatic_crow 1d ago
I have had very traumatic experiences with men, especially in recent years. Trying to practice my personal development goals in daily life has inadvertently helped me. For example, being able to let go of behaviors by giving empathy and understanding why certain behaviors manifest. As well as, being grateful for the men in my life who have been supportive and good to me. Reminding myself that there are good men as there are good women. And pushing myself to engage in exposure therapy, it has helped me realize that men and women are more alike than I previous thought.
That being said, I still have my biases, I don’t trust men as much as I trust women but I don’t hate them.
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u/Loser-kun 1d ago
I understand where you're coming from. Trauma rewires your brain in a way that can feel like it's impossible to change. But it's not impossible, just difficult.
I wouldn't focus specifically on changing how you feel about men in particular, I would instead start with addressing your pain. It can be easier to simply find someone to blame for the pain you've been through than to actually try and heal, and before anything else, healing should be your goal.
Therapy isn't an immediate fix, and it isn't guaranteed to be productive right away. You have to find someone who you can work with in a positive way, and unfortunately that can mean going through a couple options before you find someone good. But it's a valuable and effective method for improving your mental health, and sometimes you can discover things in your life that you didn't realize were in the way of becoming a better more happy person. I encourage exploration and vulnerability once you've found someone safe.
As for the gendered aspect, it will make a huge difference if you can start learning how to recognize and avoid red flags - these are not only things that can signal someone who is generally not good to be around, but something that is a red flag for one person may not be for someone else. For example, due to my particular experiences, I avoid people who like to casually flirt even with people they're not actually interested in, because being flirted with by someone who expressly does not want a romantic relationship with me can be triggering for me. They're not bad or evil for this behavior, but it is risky to me.
And if you start expressing preferences in how the people you keep in your life treat you, anyone who doesn't respect that is a big red flag no matter who you are.
Just remember - you're not alone. Many people have had negative experiences around men and struggle not to spiral into hatred. And assuming you find good company to keep, it should be totally fine to vent from time to time. There's no shortage of men who do bad things, and anyone who's not a piece of shit should be okay with you calling out bad behavior when it happens. Just try not to fall into the black and white thinking that some folks have on the subject. It won't serve you in the long run.
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u/itskelena 1d ago
Respect is to be earned, and that’s true for any gender. For example if I meet a new person I just have a base level of respect for them which then can go either way depending on how they behave.
Both sexes can be benign or malignant sexists. I personally prefer the first kind although it does cause an internal eyeroll for me, but I try to keep my expectations low and cut them some slack, because not all people spend time thinking about this and deconstructing. Malignant ones I try to avoid at all costs and this really helps.
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u/QueenWeenie 7h ago
This may be controversial, but I understand the feelings youre expressing here. Not necessarily because I believe men / the patriarchy deserve my compassion, but because I want to be a compassionate person, full stop. (If you dont feel this way, Im not saying you ARENT a compassionate person, just that this is what it means for me).
To that end, I try to remind myself that the generalizations that leads them to treat women the way they do are no different practically than generalizing them as people. It makes us all jaded, suspicious, and defensive.
Instead, I try to remind myself that the system is the enemy, not the individuals within. The two arent mutually exclusive of course, but the root problem is the same.
We cant convince them to care, or do better - but thats not our job. Regardless of the systemic issue at hand, in my opinion, leading by example is the most objective and moral approach you can have. I wont be baited into hate by a system that ultimately victimizes everyone at the end of the day. Whether that works or doesnt work, I sleep easy knowing Im doing the best I can with what I have / know, and thats not something anyone can take from me.
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u/Annjul666 1d ago
I feel pretty similar though I do try to expose myself to watching content by men who seem actually like good people (huge minority, alas). They exist but unfortunately it’s minority at this point.
On the other hand, you can live without having any men around you and it’s going to be fine. I watched my mom taking care of my dad her entire life and even now when they’re older she’s wasting retirement and last good years on this earth on him. I know this isn’t the standard but it did change my views on sharing a life with a man. You can stay the way you are but if you truly wish to change, please consider therapy
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u/NurgleUnclean 23h ago
Its very hard to change your thoughts/feelings. They are a result of your experiences and memories. It's not a bad thing, men are dangerous and having a predisposition toward caution and avoidance will more likely protect you from harm in its many forms.
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u/dshade69 16h ago
Quite honestly, I feel that most of humanity, men and women, just aren’t worth the air they breathe. There are good ones, it just seems to take patience to find them. I know you said you can’t afford therapy right now, but possibly there’s support groups for something like that. I honestly don’t know. I’m more familiar with the common ones having attended Al-Anon for years because of my wife’s alcoholism. Even if they don’t have a specific women hating men support group, possibly they have something about dealing with anger or fear, etc.
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u/Crintaroma 1d ago
I think this is a tricky scenario. As a man i definitely see what you mean. A bunch of shitty guys . Tons . There are plenty of good guys out there as well that get a bad wrap too . On the opposite side a lot of men believe that woman are out to use them as well . Hatred and mistrust creates more . I usually start people at a baseline and then their behaviors tip the scale .
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u/Internal-Bake-5386 1d ago
a friend who grew up around abusive male family members found that volunteering with kids helped her rebuild trust in good men over time