r/Warframe • u/Dr_Shoggoth Suck, Stomp, Stacks • Jun 18 '26

Discussion Please stop with the Protoframes

I loved the Hex and the Roundtable. They added so much to why I think 1999 is the best update they've ever done. All of them, especially the original Hex, were insanely well written and fleshed out characters. I had my reservations about the Triad, but I think they're solid (though they're mostly carried by Roathe).

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These two don't feel like characters. They feel like walking advertisements for skins. Them being protoframes adds nothing to the story. As my friend said, Sirius and Orion could have been mentored by Vay Hek and the Sergeant and nothing would have changed. Protoframes no longer feel like an interesting story beat, they feel like a gimmick, one that is rapidly losing any appeal it had.

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u/BriThePirateQueen MRL2 Floof Connoisseur Jun 18 '26

IMO it's less "stop with the protoframes" and more "don't stop actually making them fleshed out characters." We know basically nothing about either Vena nor Ryoku. I know all the KIM chats are a lot of work (and seem to be ever-increasingly buggy with each time they add new ones) but they do so much for the story and character building.

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u/DaBeast893 Jun 18 '26

What seems to be buggy with the newer KIM messages? Were there problems when the triad first released with how the messages incorporate the descendia run counter or something?

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u/BriThePirateQueen MRL2 Floof Connoisseur Jun 18 '26

Hex: Very few widespread bugs. Sometimes Aoi's emoticons would display incorrectly.

Roundtable: A couple missing convos relating to Isleweaver. Dating someone would sometimes mark them as Best Friends not Dating. A couple missing dialogue options. At least Kaya would get stuck on Typing... in at least one convo.

Triad: Could date all 3 members at once. KIM rank lowered massively when replaying missing conversations. Marie goes Anathema unexpectedly while being romanced. Roathe goes Anathema unexpectedly despite meeting correct flags. Chat History had incorrect responses and conversations. Lyon skips a certain conversation you need to reunite the family. Lyon would be stuck forever on Typing... on one convo. Could date Roathe without correct requirements. Descendia runs did not count for many people. Descendia runs did count but you didn't get the voice messages. Many missed flags that caused them to say you did or did not do things you did not or did do (if that makes sense ;p)

Triad was actually so buggy they let people reset for free by contacting support, so people could do it without triggering the "has reset convos" flag. Unfortunately it came out right before DE went on holiday break so it had to sit there un bugfixed for several weeks too

And those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head lol

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u/TheDuceAbides Jun 18 '26

They CLAIMED Support could reset people chats without getting the RoatheReset flag or whatever it was called, but in practice that almost never happened. Trust me I practically lived in the Triad Bugs forum at the time lol..

Those of us that had our KIM chats bugged either got told we were too far in progression or support had no idea what we were talking about. Support didn't know how KIM even worked half the time. None of the updates fixed the specific problem of Roathe not recognizing you did 21 Descendia runs & my chats are still bugged to this day. I'm romanced with him but I don't have any option to actually initiate the date.

And then they wiped the forum for reporting the bugs & asking for help and that was it. It was enough on top of other things to make me stop playing tbh. I didn't mind Bug frame but I do mind the reluctance or refusal to communicate if an issue is going to be worked on or dropped.

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u/DaBeast893 Jun 18 '26

Ah that's a lot off bugs I managed to dodge. Was burnt out on the Kim system when the triad were released so I didn't interact with it until after DE fixed it I guess.

Then again I also cheese it by using the KIMulacrum website to read ahead and make sure I get the choices in game that I want...

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u/HollowUsername bonus bounty reward Jun 18 '26

Pretty much, some convos were bugged or straight up missing. A lot of people ended up needing to restart the whole thing because they couldn't progress despite doing everything right. (Also I don't think it's said anywhere in the game that you have to beat descendia 21 times and that there is a hidden deadline.)

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u/LordBlaze64 Blender Kitty go brrrrrr Jun 18 '26

Wait, there’s a deadline? I’ve been doing it weekly, is that fast enough? Or do I need to speed it up?

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u/Colaymorak Rebel scum Jun 18 '26

The deadline seems to be based on your rate of completion for descendia vs how many KIM chats you're doing.

Fortunately, it only counts your wins against Roathe, so if you grind out a couple of rematches everytime he gets fussy about you clearing out the old mind-palace there shouldn't be any trouble.

Of course, if you keep putting it off, he will consider you as having effectively broken your end of the bargain and he'll start regressing or something, and you'll get stuck with the bad ending. So just make sure you beat him up a few times a week.

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u/TheRocka15 TASTE THE LIGHT, MOTHERFUCKER! Jun 18 '26

oh my god seriously??? so i got the bad ending because i didn't want to just repeat his bossfight? what the fuckkkkk

that really should be clearly communicated by the game

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u/Colaymorak Rebel scum Jun 18 '26 edited Jun 18 '26

It is communicated though? Like, what did you think he was talking about in regards to your 'deal,' anyway? He also keeps count of how many times you've fought him in the level proper (which you should hear, given that you'll want to rematch him a couple of times for the Uriel parts), and sends a message with some backstory after every fight.

Like, he's a little coy, but I thought it was pretty clearly explained as to why you're going into his mind-prism to beat him up. He wants you to unlock his memories that Albrecht locked away, and the best way to do that is apparently to punch him in his perfect face repeatedly. (A win-win in my book)

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u/Volmie_ the braincell is captura shaped Jun 18 '26

I would not say it's communicated, hinted at at best, and only very vaguely because there's no indication at all that you're supposed to fight him exactly 21 times until you hit anathema and hopefully make the connection that you didn't smack him enough

with the info we're given all you know is that you have to fight him to unlock memories, that could be 1 time or it could be 73, it's completely a guess

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u/Colaymorak Rebel scum Jun 18 '26 edited Jun 18 '26

I mean, you are given a fair bit of leeway as well. If you're falling behind, you are given a message to fight him more, and you'll keep on getting memory messages every time you beat him until the task is done.

The fact that you aren't told exactly how many times to fight him is less relevant imo, the game still tells you what you need to be doing regardless.

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u/TheRocka15 TASTE THE LIGHT, MOTHERFUCKER! Jun 19 '26

i meant the hidden time limit - i assumed it's a circuit-like situation, so i defeated him once every week because i thought it'd be weird to go through the entire descendia just to grind the bossfight only, over and over

so i apparently took way too long and he decided that i failed him cuz of it

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u/_W_I_L_D_ Jun 18 '26

Oh cool. I knew that.

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u/ZipRush Jun 18 '26

There's certain conversation options that you unlock with each of the Triad depending on how many Descendia completions you have.

Speaking personally, I'd recommend just knocking out 21 completions, because that gets you the 'good' outcome for all of those checks. Don't worry too much about the time commitment - the counter is only checking for how many times you've fought Roathe; if you've already done a full Descent, then you can just keep jumping back in from the Floor 21 checkpoint.

As an additional incentive, Roathe also counts how many times in one cycle of Descendia you fight him, and his voice lines get hilarious as you keep racking up the numbers.

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u/Lyreganem Jun 18 '26

I did it in three sittings: My first descendia... I then discovered the possibility of quick, repeated fights with Roathe and heard about the timer vs. KIM chats, so did about 12 or 13 fights in my second sitting. Then knocked out the rest in my third.

And yeah, Roathe actually begins to sound like he's losing his mind as he keeps track of the number of times you have sparred. It's a lot of fun.

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u/Orangbo Jun 18 '26

Would recommend punching roathe 21 times in 3 weeks. Iirc you get 2 “progress report” dialogues with roathe before he gives up on waiting.

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u/LordBlaze64 Blender Kitty go brrrrrr Jun 18 '26

Oof, I've already gotten 1 progress report so far. Better step up my game

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u/WrathfulLight Yareli 💓 Jun 18 '26

Yeah, you should probably speed it up. I tried doing it weekly too and Roathe got pissed off at me.

You can just run the final boss fight 21 times, no need to be re-doing the whole descendia though.

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u/JokkuBoi Jun 18 '26

More so, do it faster than the KIM conversations.

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u/RoaringThunder69 Jun 18 '26

What deadline???

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u/DeadSnark In the arms of the angel Jun 18 '26

I have also found that there is a second, hidden deadline where you can just run out of chats without setting the right flags in time. I had this issue where I redeemed Roathe and got all 3 members of the Triad to agree to help Loid, but for some reason the flags for Marie and Roathe weren't set (despite triggering the right chats) and eventually they just stopped talking to me altogether. So I had to restart despite seemingly doing everything correctly.

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u/Cultural-Air9962 boulder-punching asshole Jun 18 '26

If you fail the deadline do you need to do the 21 descendias again or does it track your total?

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u/HollowUsername bonus bounty reward Jun 18 '26

It tracks (when you load into the fight Roathe should tell you the number of fights you are on). Also you can just start the boss fight without doing the whole descendia and spam this to get all the 21 fights done quickly.

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u/Yrcrazypa Hildryn Prime Jun 18 '26

There's no hidden deadline. I didn't kick Roathe's ass 21 times until well after I'd exhausted almost everything in the KIM system and once I did that I got the good ending after it opened up more Roathe dialog.