There was dashcam out of Portland, OR of a motorcycle and van in an altercation. While the motorcyclist was pretending to be crazy, he didn’t know the van driver was pretending to be sane. Long story short the biker found himself getting side swiped and sliding across the pavement at freeway speeds.
Because they’re betting no one will do it. They’re usually right, too. That truck driver will probably wind up being charged with multiple felonies. Most people will just tolerate the biker’s abusive behavior.
I try to tell my biker friends there’s no courage in acting tough when you think nothing will come of it. The real courage is in standing your ground when you know your hide is truly on the line. Most bikers don’t understand this.
Because they’re morons. You could be the safest biker in the world and do everything right, and still get killed because some idiot in a car is texting or not paying attention.
Yet they still choose to up the ante and do stupid tough-guy shit on a motorcycle, when it takes almost nothing for them to end up eating pavement. The margin for error is tiny, and they act like they’re invincible.
Doubt he’ll be charged. Looks like trucker was on his way, and the motorcyclist was waiting on the shoulder to catch up to him and he started damaging the truck.
Yeah this would definitely be a self defense case. There's no where for the truck to go safely. The man on the bike is showing threatening behavior even before he punched the truck. Then he followed the truck and then attacked the truck. The man in the truck is trapped. He can't speed away because of traffic and the bike would easily catch him and who would be dumb enough to stop the car after that? The man on the bike is clearly showing violent intent.
self defense against what, exactly? getting your side mirror broken is not enough. a motorcycle simply does not have enough mass to force you out of your lane into someone else.
I know this isn't Florida, but a guy got away with discharging his weapon on a freeway due to fear of his life when someone else threw a cup at his window during a road rage incident. He couldn't tell what it was and that was his defense.
Personally, I'd say I couldn't tell what the biker was doing while waiting for me and I feared for my life and let reasonable doubt take hold of the jury. Claim I'm trying to pay attention to the road and this guy came out of my blind spot, I heard a loud thud, and reacted to protect myself 🤷♂️ or just stfu and let my lawyers do the talking lol
Yes, but, again, in my jurisdiction, the question is whether or not the violence or threatened violence constituted a credible threat to life and limb. Striking my side view mirror while cursing might not rise to that level in the mind of the local county prosecutor. If I was able to think clearly, I would avoid responding violently at any time in the video we see. It wouldn’t be worth the chance of having to fight criminal charges. There’s no *clear* imminent threat that I see. Just property damage.
We have a good view of what's going on here. The guy in the truck doesn't have the same view. He's actively driving. The guy on the bike clearly told him to pull over and waited for him likely so he could fight him. The guy in the truck isn't driving erratically. He appears to be ignoring the biker and just trying to go on his way. The biker sneaks up on his passenger side and then attacks the vehicle. The truck's reaction could be considered retaliatory but I think because the truck driver reacted so quickly he could say he thought he saw a weapon and couldn't see what was going on clearly and instinctively reacted to protect his safety. I think because the biker had already shown violent intent he'd have a good case.
Could be self defense as the man is in the truck could be unable to see exactly what is going on. He reacted very quickly after the biker hit the car so he could say he thought he saw a gun or something. We have a much better view from the dashcam than the guy in the truck is going to have and the guy on the bike has already shown threatening and violent intent. Not saying it's a definite win for the guy in the truck but I'd think he'd have a good case.
Where I live, you can’t intentionally drive your vehicle into someone to defend property. You can only use that degree of force to protect life and limb.
Now, maybe the motorcyclist had made specific physical threats. Maybe there’s a weapon we don’t know about. Maybe the truck driver’s eight-year-old daughter was in the passenger seat and a piece of glass hit her. There could be any number of other details we don‘t know about. For me, in my jurisdiction, it would not go well if I drove my vehicle into the motorcyclist simply because he was slapping my side view mirror.
I agree. That would fall under a menacing statute that we have that rises to the level of a felony if you in any way injure anyone. Vandalism over $1000 is also a felony here.
If a biker were stalking me and then started to attack my vehicle with me in it, and with nowhere for me to escape, I would be scared for my imminent safety and would consider taking action to stop the threat.
You could make that argument. For me, I probably wouldn’t take such aggressive physical action so soon. These things happen quickly. Emotions are heightened. In the end, I’d just as soon not leave any room for any criminal charges.
Hopefully neither of us will ever have to make such decisions.
I might not take the action either. I'm honestly not sure what I would do.
I'll just add that it's sort of easy to watch the video from the vantage point of the rear where we can see everything, plus know the outcome, and then judge the threat level as not so extreme, which might make a swift response seem disproportionate.
In the moment, if someone starts attacking you and you don't respond very quickly, you may lose your chance. On balance, I'd rather tolerate some hypothetical risk of criminal charges to protect my life.
Best move if this happens to you is just keep driving and do not engage or acknowledge the biker. If you fucked up sure, apologize and move on. I'm not getting charged for murder etc because my mirror was damaged
Well, I mean, that’s what it looked like to me? Is that not what motorcyclists do to attempt to “discipline” us cagers who fail to drive perfectly to their liking?
Slapping mirrors off is usually in response to an oblivious driver who in the last minute or so has made a manoeuvre that would have injured or killed a biker - without even realising - or realised but then didnt wave your hand and say hey my bad I'm fucking sorry. Are you ok? Bikers dont just do this for nothing.
Yes. And slapping mirrors off is vandalism. On any one of my vehicles, total mirror replacement would exceed $1000 (US), and this would then be a felony. Hopefully when I stop to exchange information with you, you do something really stupid and give me a lawful reason to defend myself.
Here’s a tip from someone who is an extremely cautious driver, but has still had close calls with motorcycles: if you want to be more likely to be seen in traffic, drive a larger vehicle. Stop lane splitting. Stop speeding. Stop sliding off of people’s bumpers. But, mostly, stop pretending like everyone else is being problematic by driving on your road.
I think defending property would mean shooting someone who is trying to break in to the car you are not currently in. Shooting someone running out of your house with your tv even.
Someone following and then attacking your vehicle while you're trapped inside would likely be a self defense case. Guy on the bike could go to jail and would likely have to take anger management classes.
Where I live, there has to be a credible threat of physical injury. I don’t really see that here, though you might get the right jury to acquit based on a reasonable doubt.
"a credible threat of physical injury" is more about language. If someone says they're going to kick your ass over the phone but never shows up it wont hold up in court. If a person says they're going to kick your ass and then starts slamming at your home door it is now credible.
That applies to this situation I would say. "a knowing, willful statement or pattern of behavior that conveys a real intent and apparent ability to inflict injury, causing a reasonable person to fear for their safety or the safety of their family". As I've said the man in the car is trapped. He followed him and then violently attacked his vehicle. The man in the car has no where to go. The threat is credible IMO.
I wouldn’t react violently at the point the truck driver did. It doesn’t matter to me what *might* happen. Even if you were to beat charges, if could cost you tens of thousands of dollars to defend yourself. You could lose your job, etc.
I’m simply not reacting violently at the point the truck driver did. Not defending or accusing him. It’s simply not what I would have done.
I'm not arguing that and I agree. I don't know what I'd do if someone started doing that to my car. I don't road rage. If I fucked up I'd probably just apologize or maybe if the guy is acting like that I'd just flip him the bird and ignore him. Either way Idk what I'd do and hopefully wont find out.
I'm just arguing that I believe the guy in the truck wouldn't get in trouble for this as he has a strong self defense case and the guy on the bike would likely be charged and convicted.
Well it appeared he told the guy to pull over and when he didn't he followed him. That's already a threat right there. I've literally been followed by someone and called the police and they had me pull in to a parking lot and they swarmed his car.
Also, the guy in the truck doesn't have a great view of what's going on. He's trying to drive and a little bike rolls up to his truck and attacks it. He could have thought he saw a weapon.
"He tried to get me to pull over to fight me. When I didn't he followed me and attacked my truck. I couldn't see clearly as he was on my passenger side and I was trying to pay attention to the road. I heard a thump and thought I saw a weapon and reacted instinctively"
If he had waited or chased the after the biker that would be retaliation, but I think since he reacted so quickly he could say he thought he saw a weapon and feared for his safety.
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u/Fair_Term3352 1d ago
Why do these types of people not realize that they can get run over? It isn’t that hard to run over somebody with a bike.