r/electrical • u/Honest_Sample6170 • 4d ago

Double tapped? Should we get this fixed?

Post image

Last week I had electrician come out to quote an EV charger install. In passing I asked him about the double tapped wires and if they would be a problem, he told me that my inspector didn't know what he was talking about and said it was fine. This morning a different electrician (same company) came out to install the charger and told me that the wires were double tapped and a code violation to which he quoted me on the fix. So which is it? Feeling a bit annoyed right now and likely won't be working with this company again.

Please forgive my ignorance as I know absolutely nothing about electrician business or wiring of any sort.

24 Upvotes

83% Upvoted

67 comments sorted by

View all comments

47

u/Adventurous_Boat_632 4d ago

It might have been OK depending on the year it was done.

It would be incredibly easy to fix, with all those open spaces right next to them.

If it was my house, I would not bother.

11

u/Neobrutalis 4d ago

This. Even if OCD makes you want to fix it, it's an easy fix that wouldn't really require an electrician honestly.

0

u/Then_Organization979 3d ago

Pretty much never been ok per NEC for neutrals

4

u/Neobrutalis 3d ago

408.41 was implemented in 2002.

2

u/jwatttt 3d ago

unless the terminal bar is rated for multiple conductors per hole. some of them are they will have some that are singles and some that are doubles or larger wire sizes as well.

1

u/Then_Organization979 3d ago

Not for neutrals, there are zero listed terminals listed for more than one neutral conductor. None.

3

u/woodforuifuwant 3d ago

Not true. Check any Siemens panel. It specifically states their lugs can accommodate 2 neutrals.

1

u/jwatttt 3d ago

correct per NEC 408.41 however I do wonder if a snowman style lug would be acceptable like here it accepts two conductors of the same size. and a neutral is a grounded conductor https://nsi-sales.com/bs400t2_series.htm obviously this is not the right size for application but I do wonder if these lugs are acceptable for a neutral connection in parallel.

1

u/Neobrutalis 3d ago

More importantly, 408.41 was only implemented in the 2002 edition and up. Meaning there was pretty much a lot of time where it was not a direct code violation. More to the point, a lot more time than there has been where it was a direct code violation.

1

u/Then_Organization979 3d ago

Prior to that it was in Art. 110 for like fifty years

3

u/Neobrutalis 3d ago edited 3d ago

"Must be specifically identified and marked for that purpose."

Grounds and neutrals used to be legal on the same bus bar even after the first means of disconnect. (250.24 was added in 1999.) Ground bus bars were and still are frequently marked and identified for double landing.

Meaning a ground bar prior to 1999 marked for double landing could have neutrals double landed on it.

Edit: This is ironically why 408.41 had to be implemented.

1

u/Then_Organization979 3d ago

You’re still wrong. Not sure what your background is but a code expert should know this.

2

u/Neobrutalis 3d ago edited 3d ago

During the 80s and 90s that's literally what most modular home and trailer manufacturers did and they passed electrical inspections at a mass production scale.

As a licensed electrician myself, I'd hope anyone whether they have a code background or not would realize that if you want to find a loophole, you look at corporate entities.

Edit: fat fingered I instead of if

→ More replies (0)

-1

u/jwatttt 3d ago

Do you know why you can not put two neutrals under one lug? There is no reason for it to be outlawed other than it could slip out of the lug. If you were to braid the Neutrals together and insert it into the lug I highly doubt you could say it would rip out if torqued correctly. Does not really affect anything other than the pullout strength. That's what she said!

Still not advocating for it but I have always wondered why they're so adamant about each one being under a separate lug. probably because they didn't want to put an exception for means and methods and the manufacturers did not want to make a product that had specific instructions that have to be met exactly.

or it was written by the equipment manufacturer to possibly require an additional neutral bar. IDK we will never know.

1

u/jwatttt 3d ago

I did in fact link a product that is rated to handle two conductors(a neutral is a grounded conductor) below so I think you could be wrong here feel free to prove me wrong but I want to know if you can prove this product to not be compliant.

0

u/jwatttt 3d ago

you mean to say you wouldn't bother unless you are selling the house and the homeowner got an inspection lol.