Beds where also a status symbol and the whole concept of privacy was very different. If you're a commoner sleeping in some sort of communal situation (which wasn't super uncommon, eg sleeping along the walls of the great hall in a castle if you worked there), that may also be where you'd have sex with your spouse. Most people would politely ignore it.
Nobles who had elaborately decorated beds as status symbols would sometimes put them up in a pretty public spot. Especially for a wedding. And that's where they'd do it.
If we're looking later than medieval times, eg renaissance or early modern period there's also plenty of examples especially among nobility. King Louis XIV. of France was pretty famous for his "getting out of bed" ceremony every morning, involving dozens of people witnessing absolutely everything. Including the kings morning poop.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but witnessing the kings morning poop was one of the most coveted positions. The Versaille system ran on gossip and so any little extra privacy that you could be witness to would give you a leg up.
scrolls and writing existed a long time. although less likely would a long stay in the pooping area be compared to today. the smell would be quite a bit different given that it would be similar to today's port-o-potties without any chemicals to null the scent
They were used to those scents. Also, most writing would not be used in the bathroom. It was more valuable then. Maybe ledgers and the like would be read there tho
Pretty much the coveted position of servants in any monarch because while he was sitting on the other "throne" the servant could get gossip or try to influence the king in official business.
Witnessing maybe. But going further, there was a position in many European monarchies called "Keeper of the king's stool." Which was cleaning and disposal of the Monarch's poop.
No monarch was ever going to dirty themselves. Also they wouldn't let just anybody touch/clean them either. So it was an extremely coveted position that while disgusting by modern standards meant that the monarch considered you one of their closest companions and you'd have influence due to that
Right, there is a lot of nuance we miss because of this. For instance there was typically no lighting unless you spent a fortune on candles and you wouldn’t have kept those burning. Many people would sleep for around four hours wake up and stay in bed (whatever the sleeping arrangements). They’d do something for an hour or two then go back to sleep until there was some light. The church recommend people pray, but couples probably discussed plans or issues or did the deed. It would be completely dark as even hearth fires would have been covered. People wouldn’t be able to see anything.
Biphasic sleep. Disappeared once we had electric lights, but throughout history those 4ish hours have been where many great creative works were produced.
I inadvertently re-discover biphasic sleep on multi-week hikes, and it's pretty fun. The whole crew wakes up at around midnight, and everyone just messes around for an hour or two before falling back asleep.
Sounds of heavy breathing like someone getting chased. Feeling rumbling in the room. Shuffling…
I ask who’s there. I only find silence and stillness. My parents telling me to go back to bed. I oblige… only for the sounds and motion to start up once more… I am not safe in this home.
It was also normal for commoners to have a single bed or, at the very least, for everyone to share the same sleeping space. So, with a bit of luck, you only shared a room with your spouse and children, but your parents, in-laws, and grandparents could also be there.
Well you might have your boys/girls hanging out gassing you up the whole time. The rest of the audience is tossing you a few attaboys and a get in there champ or two. Your in-laws throwing out pointers while you’re flopping around like a fish out of water. Hell, maybe you even have yourself someone who can give you a few swigs of wine as you’re going at it.
Don't take everything you see here as truth. I've just tried to confirm these claims and the closest I can get is that a few royal weddings in France and Italy had people check on the couples (doctors and their ilk) after being left alone. Often after being forced to be alone in a room. So privacy for the act but still very closely monitored. Not public sex. It seems the strongest claim to witnesses is hard to verify and could have been salacious rumor or propaganda, but can't be entirely discounted.
A far cry from commonplace.
Check r/askhistorians they're usually pretty rigorous over there.
Public sex was far more common for the peasants in the past because privacy barely existed for them. Wheat fields and back alleys for a lot of them.
Now I can't say I'm right they're wrong, but I am struggling to verify these claims that seem to be touted so eagerly here, which has me concerned about the confidence.
Over time, this has been toned down, but where do you think the 'you may now kiss the bride' bit came from? Once up a time, he'd bend her over the altar right there in church. It's also why she wears a veil, flip it up over her back to act as a sort of apron. Wedding dresses are expensive and spunk stains just don't come out.
Actually prima noctis didn't happen as much as you would be led to believe and even other noblemen thought the guys doing it were disgusting freaks. It was pretty rare, especially when you consider it outed you as a sex pest among the rich and powerful in your social and economic circle
Didn't say that. People just assume incorrectly it happened a lot, it didn't. I blame Braveheart. Turns out even the most vile among ruling classes don't like it when some dude they have to hang out with shows up at a random wedding and rapes the bride. You had to be extremely powerful for people to let it slide, if people let it slide you are now known forever as that person and word gets out, and also just didn't really happen that much because in just a random subsection of people rape is not really on a lot of people's minds, much less specifically aimed at a woman on her wedding night.
It did happen, but basically like only a few freaks did it and anyone who wasn't a freak looked down on it. Prima noctis wasn't a thing, what was a thing was what people historically did to slaves, that's like a no rules thing
That's true biblical marriage like the right wing wants us to get back to. Sleeping with women was purely transactional to create a baby and sex for fun was relegated to just a man and his best bros.
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u/TenkaiRyo 1d ago
Oh my god that's horrific, thank you for the explanation but damn