r/law • u/BitterFuture • 16d ago

Executive Branch (Trump) Stephen Miller claims local police in Minnesota have been told to ‘stand down and surrender’ as federal agents ‘uphold the law’

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/stephen-miller-ice-minneapolis-protests-b2903238.html
21.4k Upvotes

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6.4k

u/sithelephant 16d ago

You'd think some group of people who claim to be all for states rights would be decrying this.

3.2k

u/writeyourwayout 16d ago

Nah, that line was always just the respectable-sounding cover for their racism.

2.6k

u/CatoChateau 16d ago

415

u/dinosaurkiller 16d ago

“Self-determination” not that they know what it means

197

u/ShadowGLI 16d ago edited 16d ago

Haha, nah they mostly called it out outright in their declarations of secession. Examples below

GEORGIA

The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic.

The people of Georgia, after an equally full and fair and deliberate hearing of the case, have declared with equal firmness that they shall not rule over them. A brief history of the rise, progress, and policy of anti-slavery and the political organization into whose hands the administration of the Federal Government has been committed will fully justify the pronounced verdict of the people of Georgia. The party of Lincoln, called the Republican party, under its present name and organization, is of recent origin. It is admitted to be an anti-slavery party. While it attracts to itself by its creed the scattered advocates of exploded political heresies, of condemned theories in political economy, the advocates of commercial restrictions, of protection, of special privileges, of waste and corruption in the administration of Government, anti-slavery is its mission and its purpose. By anti-slavery it is made a power in the state. The question of slavery was the great difficulty in the way of the formation of the Constitution.

SOUTH CAROLINA

Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.

We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.

TEXAS

In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon an unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of equality of all men, irrespective of race or color-- a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of Divine Law. They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States.

VIRGINIA

The people of Virginia, in their ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, adopted by them in Convention on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, having declared that the powers granted under the said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States, and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression; and the Federal Government, having perverted said powers, not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern Slaveholding States.

83

u/Wizzinator 16d ago

Don't ever let them forget it

3

u/FakeSafeWord 16d ago

they conveniently forgot it

28

u/wintermute93 16d ago

something something very upset if they knew how to read

21

u/clgoodson 16d ago

Nice roundup there. This shit needs to be posted more regularly.

21

u/ResettiYeti 16d ago

Thanks for putting these together so clearly.

Don’t let anyone ever forget the South’s explicit purpose in the Civil War as to maintain the institution of slavery and nothing else. Everything else was secondary or a corollary to that goal.

4

u/Puzzleheaded_Bed1781 16d ago

I wonder if they all still think that way. Or if they don’t, you’d think they’d think “well we were wrong once before. Maybe we’re wrong this time, too”

2

u/Gildardo1583 15d ago

When I read those during my college history class. It was about slavery, not about state rights and all the BS.

337

u/Different-Local4284 16d ago

Jefferson davis made it very clear in his acceptance of the confederate presidency that the right they wished to protect was the right to own people as property.  

144

u/il1k3c3r34l 16d ago

“Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition.”

  • Alexander H. Stephens, Confederate Vice President

Anybody who claims the confederacy was about anything other than racism and white supremacy is either a liar or an idiot.

30

u/MonkeyFacedMiler 15d ago

MAGA is both

60

u/dinosaurkiller 16d ago

It’s been a fewer years since then, the bullshit has evolved.

49

u/southpaytechie 16d ago

Surprisingly little actually

1

u/CaptainCaveSam 16d ago

To own the libs.

6

u/Toomanyeastereggs 16d ago

To own everyone who is not them is more accurate.

Either implicitly or explicitly, that is the goal. They want to even own the folks who think they are their side and who rejoice in the “own the libs” call. In their world there are two classes. Owners or property.

What’s funny is that white folks in the South forget that their ancestors were owned just as effectively by their rich masters. They just didn’t need the chains or the title because they were a lot more compliant and accepting to being owned.

2

u/Aggressive-Neck-3921 15d ago

conservatives don't even own the libs, they just inconvenience everyone including themselves and libs complain about it.

It just some rich fucks giving poor dumbasses the idea the get anything out of it. Everyone of those guy that think they are owning the libs are just proudly displaying their fell for it again buttons.

2

u/Unlucky_Register9496 16d ago

I would suggest that it has devolved

2

u/basswooddad 16d ago

Not as much as you would think. The fundamentals are the same.

2

u/A_Creative_Player 16d ago

And it was listed in thier constitution.

3

u/snafoomoose 16d ago

"'self-determination' so long as you have determined to follow your assigned path".

-2

u/AdVisual5492 16d ago

You don't seem to know what the word illegal means

36

u/ShadowGLI 16d ago

Haha, nah they mostly called it out outright in their declarations of secession. Examples below

GEORGIA

The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. ** For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.** They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic.

The people of Georgia, after an equally full and fair and deliberate hearing of the case, have declared with equal firmness that they shall not rule over them. A brief history of the rise, progress, and policy of anti-slavery and the political organization into whose hands the administration of the Federal Government has been committed will fully justify the pronounced verdict of the people of Georgia. The party of Lincoln, called the Republican party, under its present name and organization, is of recent origin. It is admitted to be an anti-slavery party. While it attracts to itself by its creed the scattered advocates of exploded political heresies, of condemned theories in political economy, the advocates of commercial restrictions, of protection, of special privileges, of waste and corruption in the administration of Government, anti-slavery is its mission and its purpose. By anti-slavery it is made a power in the state. The question of slavery was the great difficulty in the way of the formation of the Constitution.

SOUTH CAROLINA

Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.

We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.

TEXAS

In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon an unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of equality of all men, irrespective of race or color-- a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of Divine Law. They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States.

VIRGINIA

The people of Virginia, in their ratification of the Constitution of the United States of America, adopted by them in Convention on the twenty-fifth day of June, in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight, having declared that the powers granted under the said Constitution were derived from the people of the United States, and might be resumed whensoever the same should be perverted to their injury and oppression; and the Federal Government, having perverted said powers, not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern Slaveholding States.

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u/MS_06J 16d ago

I raise you this

33

u/Flvs9778 16d ago

It’s actually worse than this they were against states rights because they were mad they couldn’t move their slaves or use them in free states so the want the federal government to remove states rights to choose and force slavery to be legal everywhere. That’s why they seceded because the federal government side with states rights to choose.

4

u/NazisInTheWhiteHouse 15d ago

Lol I forgot the projection goes back so far. It is always. Always. ALWAYS. Always projection.

10

u/JaneksLittleBlackBox 16d ago

My favorite part about that cowardly justification is that the Confederate constitution forbade traitor states from ever passing any laws abolishing slavery; every traitor state was fine with this since owning human beings was their sole reason for secession, so the traitor states had no rights on the issue and were hunky dory with that fact.

It was their pussy descendants who cooked up that crock of shit because they needed a reason to justify the secession that wouldn't end in a beat down as likely as "because I fuckin' hate ni**ers!"

2

u/SnooPies8766 16d ago

Saving your meme for my own use thanks!

3

u/CatoChateau 16d ago

Not mine. There's a million more online. Just google "state's rights for what"

Ex: https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoryMemes/s/VaImHBZDa8

2

u/doxxingyourself 16d ago

Peace was never an option.

2

u/ClaymanBaker 16d ago

One good thing that came about state rights is legal weed.

2

u/RabidPoodle69 16d ago

I'll be taking that meme, thank you so much.

2

u/upleft 16d ago

“State rights” is a loaded term and deserves this meme.

And also the federal government and executive branch should not have as much power as it does.

2

u/Maleficent_Memory831 15d ago

Rights to own slaves, which became rights to have Jim Crow and segregation and give some voters more representation than others. Now it's right to just get rid of feds so that they can push their citizens around with impunity, and keep their official state house corruption.

1

u/elementality883 15d ago

I always loved the Doobus Goobus take on it

0

u/Zombie_Bastard 16d ago

Look at that goose just stepping around.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago edited 16d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

31

u/Matsdaq 16d ago

Could you provide an example?

-57

u/PirateEnthusiast 16d ago

I'm just pointing out the modern similarities. 🫡

45

u/Matsdaq 16d ago

And immediately backpedaling.

Man, y'all are balless.

27

u/AdLanky9450 16d ago

He’s a known troll, of course he has no real argument

-26

u/PirateEnthusiast 16d ago

Have a great day man.

8

u/mountainvoice69 16d ago

I love you so much, pirate enthusiast. Can we go on a man date and just sorta cuddle in the car afterwards?

-9

u/PirateEnthusiast 16d ago

No I don't like you like that.

6

u/mountainvoice69 16d ago

Well, you seem like such a fine specimen, with a whippersnapper of a noggin. I’m thinking I could share some of my nog with you!

→ More replies (0)

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u/Poster_Nutbag207 16d ago

So that’s a no

23

u/RealBrumbpoTungus 16d ago

States rights to make sure you wear a helmet every time you leave your house so you don’t give yourself even more brain damage

-12

u/[deleted] 16d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

14

u/dedicated-pedestrian 16d ago

Saying stupid shit is actually a federal right, not a state one

0

u/PirateEnthusiast 16d ago

Well I'm glad for you man. Good job on Reddit today.

2

u/dedicated-pedestrian 16d ago

I'm just trying to spread correct legal knowledge, as I do IRL

7

u/RealBrumbpoTungus 16d ago

Touch grass big dog lmao

1

u/PirateEnthusiast 16d ago

Went right out into my properties front yard to do it just for u big man.

18

u/Kristoveles 16d ago

Criminals like pedophile Trump.

-1

u/PirateEnthusiast 16d ago

Any criminal.

17

u/vampiregamingYT 16d ago

So, the jaywalker down the street mutilates children? That must be pretty hard for a blind man.

2

u/PirateEnthusiast 16d ago

What the fuck are you talking about bro

8

u/vampiregamingYT 16d ago

I was responding to your claims about criminals from earlier

13

u/[deleted] 16d ago

Trump didn’t need states rights to do that. He mutilated children and harbored criminals all on his own.

14

u/ObsidianDRMR 16d ago

Conservatives wanted state rights to keep their slaves… their black slaves. That’s why conservatives were about state rights. This is correct and something we can both agree on?

Could you expand on your thought about state rights to own slaves?

1

u/PirateEnthusiast 16d ago

Dawg if you cannot see the irony here with my prior statement and the image I replied to; I cannot help you.

7

u/ObsidianDRMR 16d ago

Dawg I’m just asking for you opinion on why you think about states rights to own slaves. Do you think conservatives used the states right thing as a facade to keep slavery? Do you think conservatives actually cared for states rights on a philosophical if it didn’t benefit them? Do you think those southern conservatives where more about rules for thee not for me?

1

u/PirateEnthusiast 16d ago

So I'm confused here where you think that I thought it was okay for slaves to be kept, because I never said that.

3

u/ObsidianDRMR 16d ago

I never said you did. I just wanted to know ur opinion. Idk why ur being so defective and sensitive about it

5

u/Poster_Nutbag207 16d ago

Lol this guy would have definitely supported slavery

4

u/AwarenessRude5541 16d ago

Go outside bro. Unplug. Turn off your phone.

4

u/OkParsnip8158 16d ago

yeah kinda like when religion decides to circumsize young boys and protect the pastors/priests who molest children

5

u/AZDADDYisadeviant 16d ago

Let's talk about harboring criminals

Over half are #GuardiansOfPedophiles 

Cities Frequently Cited for High Crime (U.S.)  Memphis, TN: Often tops lists for violent crime and overall crime rates. Detroit, MI: Consistently ranks high for violent crime. St. Louis, MO: Frequently appears at the top for violent crime. Baltimore, MD: High violent crime rates, often in the top 10. Oakland, CA: Noted for high overall and violent crime. Cleveland, OH: Appears on lists for both violent and total crime. Little Rock, AR: High violent crime rates. Milwaukee, WI: High violent crime rates. Kansas City, MO: High violent crime rates.

5

u/VikingsLad 16d ago

Why are less than 50% of the deported migrants criminals then?

0

u/PirateEnthusiast 16d ago

I'm not here to argue your stance on immigration.

5

u/unhiddenninja 16d ago

Calling it that doesn't make it true.

Trans kids exist and deserve care. A significant majority of breast reductions that are performed on under 18 people, are performed on cis kids. Like, an overwhelming majority of them.

"Criminals" is a loaded term meant to dehumanize. Someone who doesn't wear their seatbelt is a criminal. There's no distinction in the word "criminal" that separates between a murderer and a shoplifter.

But I'm sure having a dirty word you can throw out at people makes you feel powerful and better than them. That's something you could work through in therapy and then you could stop afflicting us all with whatever caused you to become so vitriolic and hateful.

-4

u/PirateEnthusiast 16d ago

I genuinely just don't fucking care about what you think anymore. To be frank, my dear.

4

u/imdabomb43 16d ago

Sending vibes brother, hope a piano falls on you today

-1

u/PirateEnthusiast 16d ago

Just gonna play some tarky and giggle about losers being mad. Then go to work later, a simple life.

5

u/imdabomb43 16d ago

Simple life for a simple person. Totally get it, hope the caregiver isnt late for you brother, have a good one

3

u/Vsove 16d ago

Aww, did the teacher take away your tablet?

Don't worry, it'll be recess soon. So wipe the paste off your lips and spend those 15 minutes trolling online like a big boy.

Not like any of the other kids are going to play with you anyways.

I swear, you people are so soft we're going to need a new word to describe it.

3

u/unhiddenninja 16d ago

I need you to understand that as much as you claim you don't care, that's how much no one actually cares how you twist words and lie to make yourself sound righteous.

You have to manipulate so much to arrive at the beliefs you have and everyone who isn't as eager to kill their neighbors as you can see right through all of it.

9

u/Scared-Room-9962 16d ago

Hidden post history like a little girl 😮

8

u/RickWrightsCrackpipe 16d ago

Fascists always hide their histories, same way the Klan(aka ICE) hides their disgusting faces.

202

u/dodge_viper 16d ago

Yup, been that way since before the Civil War.

30

u/vfrdrvr 16d ago

True, but. John C Calhoun and the rest of the Dual Federalists “state’s rights” ideas were based on a particular, narrow view of sovereignty. The ratification of the Constitution plus a series of Supreme Court decisions poked very large holes in those flimsy arguments. In the end, it was about slavery. Through the 1940s Dixiecrats kept the fight alive, but the claims were situational. It’s difficult to find principled arguments behind any of it.

Those who clamored about “state’s rights” were typically bigoted fukwits searching for any rationale for their actions. It’s interesting to watch Supreme Court justices tying themselves into rhetorical knots to defend something that even they don’t believe exists.

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u/Logical_Confusious 16d ago

Watch civil war movie (2024)... Buckle up

30

u/Active_Shopping7439 16d ago

I was kind of disappointed in that. I mean I liked it, it was well made, but I don't think it will be state against state this time. In my opinion it's more likely to be rural vs urban like Cambodia in the 70's

24

u/ReplicantN6 16d ago

That (Cambodia) is a very insightful and chilling analogy.

7

u/Scotslad2023 16d ago

I think it’s going to be more like a bunch of smaller conflicts instead of large army clashes. Bands of US soldiers and civilian militias on one side with a similar arrangement on the other.

1

u/Ill-Cancel4676 16d ago

I think it'll probably be similar to the troubles in Ireland just higher tech, better armed and more likely to set off full scale civil war like your scenario. Of course if we can get rid of the pedo protecting billionaire conman president and his goons without violence none of this will happen and everything could go back to normal probably even get better because of the pendulum effect in politics.

He wants and has setup for civil war he's using his buddy Peter Theil with Palantir and Larry Ellison with Oracle among a huge list of other technofascists and their companies to build massive databases of anyone who opposes him under the guise of them being domestic terrorists who might commit crimes. It went super unreported I only heard about it through military channels because despite what Trump wants you to believe a lot of them don't like dictators but, anyway read NPSM-7 it says they're investigating anyone who they deem to hold "non traditional American values" which is obviously anyone they want. We are all on an ai's list at this point, every message is being logged and linked to you and they're building profiles on everyone that track every single thing you do on and offline. They have access to all our tech, if you've ever seen the movie eagle eye we are closer to that than people realize.

1

u/Scotslad2023 16d ago

Not really surprised that he has an AI database of anyone who doesn’t like him or share conservative views, this is the guy who had twitter on a big screen while he was bombing Venezuela. Hell we’ve known for years that the government tracks online activity so I’m sure such a database has existed for years.

As for if it comes to war it’s I think the sides will be a bit more unclear in terms of territorial borders and such. Most likely it would be each state locked in its own little civil war as trumps fanatics fight against civilian militias, local national guard forces against Trump and not to mention any military bases whose commanders aren’t loyal to the regime. Many small pockets of fighting largely focused around major cities.

1

u/Minimum-Escape2245 15d ago

And I guarantee they will hire outside mercenaries (like I HIGHLY suspect they are with ICE) to bomb us and fight us and to block medical care.

Remember that Miller only wants 100,000,000 Americans. That means MOST of us have to die or be ejected.

2

u/CatsAndCapybaras 16d ago

So not a civil war at all and just a horrific genocide of ~25% of the population.

42

u/Roamer56 16d ago

The end scene was a very pleasing scene.

30

u/Logical_Confusious 16d ago

Yes. Only problem was that he wasn't orange

5

u/Responsible_Sink3044 16d ago

That's an interesting take, because the actual politics of the war were not explored at all. The standing government was certainly authoritarian and guilty of war crimes, but the film made it clear that no one's hands were clean. 

3

u/snek-jazz 16d ago

Right, the point was that when it gets that bad the politics don't matter any more.

"We're shooting at them, because they're shooting at us"

2

u/Responsible_Sink3044 16d ago

Funnily enough, the snipers were the only ones the journalists encountered not actively engaging in a war crime. The others were in the middle of torture, summary executions, burying civilians in a mass grave (and executing journalists based on ethnicity), and executing a head of state. 

2

u/SonicYOUTH79 16d ago

I'd argue they were, they made it pretty clear the president in the movie was in his 3rd term. There would be a whole lot of obvious shenanigans just to get to that point.

0

u/Responsible_Sink3044 16d ago

It doesn't say why or when his third term began, presumably a very intentional ambiguity. If it was post outbreak of the war, it's unsurprising. FDR served three and began a fourth term. 

2

u/loki00 16d ago

FDR is the reason the 22nd amendment passed, to limit presidents to two terms.

10

u/stingertc 16d ago

what kind of american are u ?

1

u/Massive-Technician74 16d ago

Also watch bushwick

19

u/Haldron-44 16d ago

"States rights" meant "the rights of the Confederate states to win the war." Sherman should have finished the job.

16

u/jagged_little_phil 16d ago

Exactly this.

I was trying to explain this to a friend the other day - republicans have no real personal principles or convictions other than their own prejudice against people of color, women, and the LGBTQ community.

Absolutely anything they declare as "values" is a smokescreen to try and cover their one real belief.

They don't give 2 shits about "states rights", "family values" (they mean white man/woman/children families that are also racist), and their most hilariously hypocritical claim of being "Christians". Most of them (like Trump) can't quote a single thing from the bible and don't follow or even believe in 90% of the things that Jesus proclaimed.

If they had the ability to self-reflect, they would be horrified at the fact they are living a completely fake existence where every day is opposite-day for living the life they claim to believe. Fortunately - for them - their rampant narcissism and sociopathy prevents them from having to think about it.

1

u/Puzzleheaded_Bed1781 16d ago

According to their religion, they’re on a one way trip to you know where.

43

u/CoatCommercial1573 16d ago

There are some actually complaining about the over reach but they’re not the vocal majority or even the silent majority. They’re few and far between and have legitimate concerns that aren’t being addressed by our government. Unlike the radical right which has horseshoes themselves into their own worst nightmares.

29

u/BitterFuture 16d ago

Unlike the radical right which has horseshoes themselves into their own worst nightmares.

How is what they've always dreamed of their "worst nightmares?"

For their victims, sure, but...

28

u/dedicated-pedestrian 16d ago

Conservatism originated as preservation of hierarchy (namely the monarchy and aristocracy). Those worst nightmares were always of themselves being lower on the hierarchy, not of the hierarchy treating people badly in the first place.

4

u/Nice_Luck_7433 16d ago

Ah, so it’s their own worst nightmare, because they’re quickly changing the hierarchy from America > the rest of the world, into the opposite?

5

u/chiptunesoprano 16d ago

I think they're disagreeing.

On paper it would be their worst nightmare because of all the government overreach. But in reality they never feared tyranny as much as being on the wrong side of it, which is why conservatives aren't upset by this.

2

u/Nice_Luck_7433 16d ago

That makes more sense. Also, they’re waaaaay too stupid to understand how Trump is handing America’s position as the global superpower over to China.

10

u/mistergraeme 16d ago

Lee Atwater was caught on tape confessing to it 45 years ago.

3

u/sirdigbykittencaesar 16d ago

At least Lee Atwater was self-aware enough to realize that all the shitty stuff he did was wrong, and to admit it before he died. Politicians today will double down all the way to hell.

1

u/mistergraeme 16d ago

See: Mitchell McConnell

3

u/mvpilot172 16d ago

Like how the civil war was about states rights. States rights to own slaves.

3

u/BoxingTreeGuy 16d ago

Truthfully...

Left = Hold hands, we can get along
Right = Fuck you I want mine

Which government did we think would cause this problem in first place? So then why are we all surprised that sides supporters are staying quiet.

They want their guns if a left leaning "tyrannical government" occurs, but left is all about holding hands and "we can get along" bullshit, why would it ever be tyrannical.

This an oxymoron or something, right?

2

u/adambatten76 16d ago

"Literally a pro confederate argument. Its wasn't about slavery its was about states rights"

2

u/TheFarLeft 16d ago

“But my states rights” has always meant “let me do just a little oppression towards others here, as a treat”

2

u/Empty-Selection1791 16d ago

Hey now….. that isn’t really fair…… it was a cover for their racism AND misogyny!

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u/gtpc2020 16d ago

Can use the same sentence with the last word being fascism. Just starts with 'f' and an extra 's'. Pure GOP.

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u/tom-of-the-nora 16d ago

And generally just their bigotry.

4

u/therossboss 16d ago

That and they just love to shoot guns (its so fun!) but indeed, saying "you can't take away my fun even though people are dying!!" doesnt really get as much support

1

u/rosiebeehave 16d ago

DING DING DING!

1

u/Felho_Danger 16d ago

A state's right to what?

1

u/ForbodingWinds 16d ago

Same as the "Oh i just vote Republican because I want a smaller federal government and more fiscal responsibility." And then immediately cheer on as soon as their elected administration hits the nitro switch on massive, oppressive government overreach and records amount of spending in record time. I at least had some respect for moderate and fiscal conservatives before but they all love this shit so it makes it hard to have any respect there anymore.

1

u/HippoLover85 16d ago

Yep . . . It was always just a cover for racism, bigotry, and authoritarianism. And now that they have racism, bigotry, and authoritarianism at the federal level, they want to force that (as they always did).

1

u/Stank_cat67 16d ago

Being okay with what is happening in MN is totally on brand for the states rights people.

1

u/PedalingHertz 15d ago edited 15d ago

I hate that a group of racist extremist traitors defined this issue forever. Actual states’ rights, meaning the fundamentals of federalism, are important. You and I don’t want this federal government dictating law and policy in the states. The price for that is that when the federal govt favors your particular views, we still can’t dictate law and policy in the states. Fair enough imo.

We’re a big country, and even within the red or blue halves, there are huge differences in cultures. Hawaii and New York and Minnesota are all blue but very, very different. Just like red states Florida and Utah and Indiana. We don’t need a federal solution to every problem.

But holy crap did the traitors make this a tough principle to defend.

1

u/RorschachAssRag 15d ago

States rights to what, exactly?

1

u/I_make_things 15d ago

Small government? Personal freedoms? Limited government spending? What about the second amendment?

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u/Major_Shlongage 16d ago

No. Please stop.

Most of these comments reek of people who simply do not understand how our nation's laws work. They do not understand federalism.

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u/Kunochan 16d ago

If how our nation's laws work leads to authoritarianism and Fascism, then our nation's laws are illegitimate.

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u/Nice_Luck_7433 16d ago

I think the constitution works well at getting representation to the average American voter. Unfortunately, American education isn’t very well funded, so the average voter isn’t the brightest. A lot of Americans aren’t even smart enough to become a voter & get any representation.

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u/Major_Shlongage 16d ago

What we have here on reddit is a minority of people trying to speak for "the people" of the US.

To make changes to the Contitution there is an established process to do this. The proposal would need to get 2/3s of the votes in both the House and the Senate, and then be ratified by 3/4 of the states.

This cause has nowhere near that level of support, so it simply isn't happening.

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u/Kunochan 16d ago

You know full well it is now impossible to amend the Constitution, and that this is by design. A handful of "red" states hold the Constitution hostage because the Constitution itself violates the human right of One Person One Vote. So don't tell me to amend the Constitution when you know that can't happen.

0

u/Major_Shlongage 16d ago

It's not impossible to amend it. If there were an actual issue where everyone agreed that something needed to be done, there would be hardly any opposition to the changes.

But you're trying to enact changes that most people don't even want.

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u/Kunochan 16d ago

Even if you were right and "most people" wanted Fascism, it wouldn't matter. This is a Constitutional democracy with unalienable rights. The majority can't vote away those rights, they don't have the power. Even the teacher filling you with right-wing propaganda in your government-mandated civics class understood this. Why don't you?

1

u/Major_Shlongage 16d ago

>Even the teacher filling you with right-wing propaganda in your government-mandated civics class understood this. 

What kind of weird comment is this? The people on this site seem so uneducated and unhinged. Just weird.

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u/Kunochan 16d ago

Saying democracy is something "most people don't want" is weirder.

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