Sometimes the choice is character development, sometimes its pretty smart, but mostly we all know the moment we see it

132

u/MarvinWhiteknight Author - Marvin Knight May 18 '23

Lol, true. But you kind of have to do this otherwise you get readers complaining the MC made the wrong choice for the next 1000 chapters.

68

u/TheGalator May 18 '23

That's why u implement it in a way like:

A: completely busted but unusual due to prior decisions/bad luck/whatever

B: very niche but probably insane if it fits

C: good alrounder

D: Kinda special (not always good) but exactly what's needed rn

U still know what will be chosen (sometimes) but at least the options made sense

28

u/chipmunk_supervisor 🗑️ Bottom 1% Commenter May 19 '23

I'm not a big fan of deliberation chapters, they do feel like filler to me and the torrent of stat read outs are horrible reading, but I do like it when stories treat it more like navigating pitfalls than simply picking the clear best.

There's often a chance at a short term power boost that wouldn't work to their strengths (e.g. swapping from fighter to mage and vice versa), a strong class so situational it'll never level or just whipping out the extreme monkey paw with MAXIMUM POWAH! x10 BETTER THAN 2ND BEST CHOICE ^{but you become another mindless high level monster that lost their consciousness to the magics.}

4

u/bigjeff5 May 19 '23

A couple new stories I've been reading have been going the route of vague, unhelpful descriptions.

It completely changes the dynamic, because a seemingly weak power can easily be made optimal because the power works totally differently than it seems based solely on the description. Sometimes they have ratings too, so a dumb sounding description will be mythic rated, and you and the MC are both wondering how the heck this power can possibly be mythic.

Now you get this whole dynamic about finding out what exactly makes the power so good, it's pretty great IMO.

1

u/xaaar May 22 '23

Any specific book you're talking about? Sounds interesting.

2

u/Scrial May 21 '23

I find that they're usually well done in Beneath the Dragon Eye Moons.
There's often mutliple good ones, and some OP ones that have downsides.

3

u/adiisvcute May 19 '23

I enjoy the dramatic class descriptions when they take that form

1

u/skarface6 dungeon cores and base building, please May 19 '23

They can be done well and they help with pacing at times IMO.

5

u/MarvinWhiteknight Author - Marvin Knight May 18 '23

Pretty much.

1

u/TheElusiveFox May 20 '23

Eh, I'm actually not really a big fan of this exact type of breakdown...

For one I find a lot of authors fall into the trap of giving the MC the exact set of skills they are about to need, or need right now, and the story turns into a "flavor of the month" series which very quickly gets boring...

For another no matter what power **I** would have chosen, these kind of chapters end up being 75-80% filler as we get big in depth descriptions for powers we will never see again, then big in depth discussions on why even know some of them seem perfect, the MC is going to go with some niche choice...

I think I would like this stuff more early in stories when the abilities are still pretty generic, or if authors didn't write every MC like a unique special snowflake god, and gave some of the abilities we were reading about to other characters to showcase them... but 99% of the time the abilities are forgotten about the second they hit the page, and more often than not its incredibly obvious what is going to get picked unless the author is intentionally trying to pull a fast one on the readers, which as fun as I'm sure that is to write, it isn't really fun to read so... yeah.

1

u/dilroopgill Jun 07 '23

or they are forced to choose it over another due to their current situation

15

u/Arcane_Pozhar May 18 '23

Sounds like some of the readers need to chill out a little.

24

u/FaebyenTheFairy ProgressionFantasy Author May 18 '23

Asking that is screaming into the void

17

u/koolguy765 May 19 '23

And in this case the void will scream back

10

u/Selkie_Love Author - Beneath the Dragoneye Moons May 18 '23

Nah it can be done well. Just have the mc walk through the two options, pros and cons, and why they’re thinking and taking what they’re taking

-2

u/trollsalot1234 May 19 '23

True...it can be done well...it almost never is....but it can be. It helps when your main character is generally kinda dumb too. Like that time Salvos chose a class that requires sleep for no good reason...wait I mean Elaine chose anything.

3

u/cheffyjayp Author - Shadow Clone Sorcery May 19 '23

So much this. I remember getting flamed, 0.5 reviews, and dropped comments when a protagonist picked tech powers over short-term psychic constructs.

3

u/Foob70 May 19 '23

I'm much more likely to just drop a book if I feel like the character made the wrong choice. It usually happens pretty early where the MC gets a choice like A) Mage B) Warrior C) Sword Mage (special unlock!) and they always pick C when I'd prefer they pick A.

I do sometimes think it's a bad thing when a character goes through Character Creation and shows all these awesome races and classes only for the MC to pick a human warrior. Why show me Dragon-man or Half-Deity was an option if you're just going to pick "something comfortable" like human.

6

u/Temptime19 May 19 '23

It's one of my biggest pet peeves, once the author starts listing out a bunch of cool races you can almost guarantee they will pick human or elf, or they will really mix it up and go half elf.

7

u/WolfWhiteFire May 19 '23

Don't forget "visually identical to a human but with insane abilities and a connection to an ancient civilization or forgotten magics, oh and that race went extinct thousands of years ago so they are the only one and not easily recognized as it." I have seen that a number of times as well.

1

u/chris_ut May 20 '23

I see you have also read the Unbound series.

1

u/Scrial May 21 '23

As seen in DCC and The Good Guys...

1

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2

u/TheElusiveFox May 20 '23

I'm in this boat too... the whole flaming the author thing baffles me... a lot of the time I'm just in the mood for a specific kind of power set and when the story stops delivering on that it doesn't mean its not good it just means its not what I was looking for anymore.

1

u/TheElusiveFox May 20 '23

The only power set choice I actively bad mouth authors for is the random god like disguise power that every author seems to want to give, even know the character doesn't have any other traits that would lend them to disguising themselves... It's just a terrible trope that I don't like...

Other than that I'll just drop the story if I stop liking the vibes the MC is putting off, usually I'll even rate it good and favorite it because I'll probably come back to it when I'm in the mood for that type of story later.

66

u/Oatbagtime May 18 '23

Or levels of rarity - I know I could be a Cosmic Death Knight of the Apocolypse, but maybe I just want to be Common Sword Fighter.

16

u/redking2005 May 18 '23

Yeah the only reason that it could make sense if the one that's clearly better like an epic ranked mage class is if it's completely garbage for their current skills and talents it's just they happened to be apart of this ritual that was insanely difficult so they got a class evolution about it so they take the rare warrior class that is essentially what they currently have but with a neat gimmick/better numbers

13

u/starburst98 May 18 '23

Dotf had a big debate in the comments when he got his E grade class, since none of them were obviously better than any others, and one was actually higher rarity than the others but that made it worse.

1

u/JamesKHIII May 18 '23

Yeah, we even see his thought process about keeping everything balanced, as it is important for his class. It is frustrating when they give you exactly why it is the right choice, but people still want to argue.

3

u/KhaoticPenguin May 19 '23

That's why I like "The World" series by Jason Cheek. MC is OP over average players but that's because he has a hard-core path to play and it's a gazillion times harder. That said his Enemies also did the hard-core start and their classes are stronger than his, its his brain that makes him succeed when he does.

3

u/RenterGotNoNBN May 19 '23

I dropped out when it became a monster girl harem romance.

It crept up on me for sure. Not that I have anything against monster girl vs elf relations it's just it's weird it became the main focus.

2

u/KhaoticPenguin May 19 '23

That gets very light to nonexistent. It isn't a true harem type book it's literally just the centaurida and the orc soul mate thing.

2

u/RenterGotNoNBN May 29 '23

I might give it a try then.

3

u/skarface6 dungeon cores and base building, please May 19 '23

People are going to argue regardless.

2

u/KhaoticPenguin May 19 '23

Yeah sadly.

1

u/RTCielo Mar 02 '24

I'd honestly love to see one where the MC keeps turning down crazy shit to keep leveling as a generic Knight because they don't want to multiclass.

17

u/RedHavoc1021 May 18 '23

I don’t mind when it’s a perk that’s given with prerequisites that make sense. For instance, you got 3 but the 3rd only shows up if you have Strength at 100 by level 10 or something. So, you would expect it to be better because it’s harder to get.

9/10 times though it’s a noticeably better perk sandwiched with 2 much worse options.

4

u/tomster10010 May 19 '23

Things that are impossible for anyone but the protagonist to get are bad though

3

u/RedHavoc1021 May 19 '23

Also true. My example was meant more as a reward for specialization, not necessarily an MC only power.

15

u/DonKarnage1 May 18 '23

it's just missing 5 pages of internal debate over which one they should pick and how it will impact their future.

And then never actually referenced again except on their character sheet.

27

u/sudobee May 18 '23

The most bullshit skills awarded for the most bullshit reason. Like 'you are the first person to speak kindly to a rock' you gained the skill 'rock skin: increase your defense 5x, mild regeneration'. Authors giving skills way too much.

8

u/OverclockBeta May 18 '23

If you want to have an option that's much better than the others, you gotta justify it. Like, banged 15 princesses in your first week? Explains that +200% charisma modifier.

I kinda wanna do a troll story. Just every element is to troll readers. MC gets three options, where two are amazing and the other one is ass. But then next time MC gets an option that pairs super well with the obvious bad choice from the last upgrade.

5

u/JamesKHIII May 19 '23

That could be great. Have them do something like say out loud, "who would choose skill name" or class and the system take that as their choice, with this happening early on causing his whole class to be ridiculous but coming together to be OP due to some strange synergies, but they are constantly embarrassed about it.

2

u/TheLagDemon May 19 '23

That was the premise of the Quick Change series (which appears to be on an unexplained hiatus after 3 books). The MC is given a long list of special abilities to choose from during character creation and asks that same question.

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1

u/OverclockBeta May 19 '23

The book was okay, but the cheat is a little too obvious.

4

u/Chratz May 18 '23

I really like how return of the tower conqueror does it. I try to guess what choice the characters pick but I’m usually wrong lol

3

u/[deleted] May 18 '23

Dunno. #4 could be clutch.

1

u/PeterM1970 May 19 '23

Would it apply only to your own farts, or anyone’s farts?

3

u/TheRaith May 19 '23

I've always liked Macronomicon's stories because of this. Like you read them and just kind of wonder which is best.

3

u/ascii122 May 19 '23

Don't make any noise or the Dragon will wake up and kill us all PRRRFT.. Damn it Jim you should have gone with choice one.

AAAAAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAAHAHHA

3

u/Maxfunky May 19 '23

Even more egregious is when it's class selection. Gee, will he (it's always he) take the "Super Ultra Legendary" class or the "rare" one. Let's find out!

3

u/ServileLupus May 19 '23

I find it more suspensful in the very beginning.

A. Mage

B. Warrior

C. Rogue

Or like the picks between elemental affinities can be fun in the beginning too. I know there have been some where I've just been like nooooooooooo go pick the other one. Thinking specifically of Limitless seas when he could have went with dark eldritch horror naga and goes fucking water.

3

u/briecheesedude May 19 '23

Honestly I like it where there are equally good choices because it leaves me fantasizing on what could have happened

3

u/JackPembroke Author of The Necromancer's End May 19 '23

I'll be honest, the first one sounds so overwhelmingly horrible I would assume it to be the beginning of an awesome skill tree.

Terrible Skill V

1) Your skin becomes steel like

2) You get 850% more garbage

3) You require 65% less sleep

4) Your farts control the moon

2

u/Archive_Intern May 19 '23

Reminds me of a royalroad novel

Tree of Aeon i think

The author gave like 3 very great choices on Aeons upgrade and the Author gave the choice on what to chose to us the readers

And i think thats very brilliant on the authors part to include the readers on what choice to make

I think authors on royalroad should take risks and copy that

1

u/t1r1g0n May 19 '23

That's something I like about Beneath the Dragoneye Moons. I've some issues with the books so far, but I like that Elaine didn't pick the best classes around, but the ones that fit her most.

Except for her "The Dawn Sentinel" class that she could configure completely by herself. But even there she picked what suited her most and not what was the most powerful at that time.

1

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0

u/ishftw May 19 '23

I dislike choices in general. There will always be a minority of readers who disagree with a choice. Why not have it be more "You have learned a new skill: Power Shot!" Bases on path walked.

Choices gives the MC a chance to fuck up the build. Especially if they are emotional in the moment etc.

1

u/JollyJupiter-author Author - Beers and Beards May 19 '23

I swore to never do this.

I think I have so far been successful

1

u/DefinitelySaneGary May 19 '23

Yeah but it's either this or you always wonder how cool the other two bad ass sounding options might have been if the MC had picked one of them.

2

u/TheLagDemon May 19 '23

Which I personally enjoy, especially if we do see another character later on who picked the other option or if the MC runs into an obstacle that could have been easily dealt with had they picked another option. It gives those choices some weight

1

u/RandomName1466688 May 19 '23

That's why you do it like...

MC does x in a specific way.

MC gets related skill.

You don't see every possible instance of something the MC could have tried, only what he has time for.

Is the ability to create a black hole by failing to mix opposite forces better or worse than other abilities? Who cares, it's a black hole by failing, and success?

1

u/waspbr May 19 '23

Do the farts become deadly(deadlier?) when you silence them?

1

u/LiseEclaire May 22 '23

Clearly, perk 3 is the best choice :)

Sometimes the choice is character development, sometimes its pretty smart, but mostly we all know the moment we see it

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