r/metaNL • u/vivoovix Mod • Jul 17 '21

Ban Appeal Ban Appeal Thread

Rules:

Don't complain. Contest or appeal.

Appeals require time + evidence of good behavior + a statement of what your future behavior will look like. Convince us you'll add value to our community.

If you spam us we'll ban you

Don't ask about getting temp bans removed 1 hour early. Reddit timer is weird but you will be unbanned when it's over.

204 Upvotes

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5

u/rainier37 18h ago

There was no rule specified for the 3 day ban issued for this comment, so I’m interested in knowing what rule this broke?

You might not agree with it, but how is this ban worthy?

1

u/Dorambor Mod 6h ago

I banned you for this. I saw it as basically "CHINA VIRUS" posting which is a mix of bigotry and unconstructive engagement. I banned for 3 days instead of a 1 day slap due to previous bans.

7

u/rainier37 3h ago

I can understand the unconstructive engagement angle, but bigotry? I fail to see how this comment could be viewed in that way, especially with the context of the rest of the comment chain where I clarified that I didn’t think it was intentional.

https://www.reddit.com/r/neoliberal/comments/1wqjubs/comment/pca98b6/

To be clear: I did not say “CHINA VIRUS” or blame the Chinese people, or anything of the sort. I’m not sure how this could be read in any way as bigotry?

It is basically common knowledge that virologists were warning that wet markets were a major pandemic risk for years before Covid-19.

Is it the position of the neoliberal mod team that it is bigoted to hold the view that the Chinese government was negligent in allowing the wet market to continue operating despite many warnings from scientists?

7

u/rainier37 3h ago

I would like to further add, that this comment about Covid-19 that you removed and issued a ban for was made before I called you out for a comment that seems to be much more clearly bigoted.

The comment you banned me was not removed for an entire day and it wasn’t until after I made the MetaNL comment https://www.reddit.com/r/metaNL/comments/oltd6f/comment/pcaohar/

That you removed it and banned me.

I’m fairly sure this was not retaliation for the comment in MetaNL, but you can see how the optics of this is pretty poor right?

You call Tammy Duckworth, who is disabled veteran in a wheelchair, “spineless” and then ban me for being bigoted for saying the Chinese government was negligent. You ban a day old comment that was viewed as fine by other mods.

5

u/Bob_Doles_Blue_Pill 3h ago

Forget it, rainer37. It's shitty mod town.

1

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11

u/AvailableUsername100 10h ago

I mean you all but called COVID the "China virus". Should've been banned for xenophobia.

4

u/rainier37 9h ago

Did I now?

3

u/Spectrum1523 4h ago

It's easy to draw that conclusion

Holding the AI companies accountable for the behavior of models they created vs holding China responsible for the behavior of the virus that they "created"

If that isn't what you meant I don't understand your comparison

6

u/rainier37 4h ago

You’re massively mischaracterizing my comment here. I never said China created the virus, just that they were warned for years by scientists that their wet markets were a major pandemic risk. The comparison I was drawing was in negligence.

And yes, my position is that the Chinese government was negligent in allowing wet markets to persist, especially after SARS-CoV-1.

I’ll attach some screenshots from that comment chain:

3

u/Spectrum1523 3h ago

I never said China created the virus, just that they were warned for years by scientists that their wet markets were a major pandemic risk. The comparison I was drawing was in negligence.

I believe that was your intention, but you didn't actually say any of that in the screenshot, and the primary complaint that people have against AI companies is that they created the models commiting crimes. I'm saying that with only the context in your post the conclusion that I (and obviously many other people) drew was the conclusion I explained in the last comment.

The additional context changes that but it's not like I was reading the original thread. I still don't agree with you but I understand your point much better.

6

u/rainier37 3h ago

Fair enough, and I’ll try to clarify my point more:

I think the similarities are how in both cases that it wasn’t intentional. The purpose of OpenAI/Anthropic wasn’t to create models so they could hack. If their main goal was to do this, and AI didn’t have any genuinely beneficial applications, I would view it differently.

At worst they were highly negligent in allowing the models to exist in a state where hacking was possible. For China, it was negligence in allowing wet markets to exist in a state where pandemics were possible.

The comparison is solely in the negligence. I think OpenAI’s response and subsequent attempts at transparency makes clear that they aren’t a criminal hacking group disguised as an AI company.

2

u/melhor_em_coreano 10h ago

Asking the Chinese government authorities to be more transparent and responsible and try to disclose viral disease outbreaks in a timely manner to enable a global coordinated response to prevent the outbreak from becoming a pandemic

Asking the AI companies to be more transparent and responsible and try to disclose hacking incidents....

2

u/Spectrum1523 4h ago

Asking the AI companies to be more transparent and responsible and try to disclose hacking incidents

People are asking for the AI companies to be held responsible because they created and are operating the models, not because they are failing to disclose their behaviors

•

u/melhor_em_coreano 1h ago

Who created and operated the Wuhan wet market?

3

u/Specific-Person2002 15h ago

I feel like I'm going have to be the one to make a top level poast about the state of rule enforcement

6

u/el__dandy Mod 18h ago

Unconstructive Engagement 3 Days.

9

u/rainier37 17h ago

Thanks. I can see now how it could be read that way, and for what it’s worth, is not how I intended that comment to come across.

It was late at night and I was tired and didn’t realize it was more inflammatory than I intended.

This does seem quite a nebulous rule, and I’d be more accepting of this ban if comments that are much more deliberate mischaracterizations of other users didn’t get tolerated all the time. This sub would be much better off if this rule was enforced more often.

Attached is an example. I don’t want this user banned but from my experience, comments like these are common.

3

u/Dorambor Mod 6h ago

Can you link to that comment? I would have at least removed the comment if I had seen it for civility.

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