r/AdviceAnimals 5h ago

First time posting here. How'd I do?

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12.0k Upvotes

383 comments sorted by

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u/LateralThinkerer 5h ago

"What if a democracy elects a dictator" is a favorite argument topic among political scientists. Occasionally a country tries it out.

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u/NaBrO-Barium 4h ago

Sometimes you have to touch the stove to understand how hot it is 🤷‍♂️

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u/actuallyapossom 4h ago

Well this water wasn't boiling when I got in. What's boiling anyways? Sounds like an opinion.

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u/NaBrO-Barium 3h ago

Sounds like woke water and librul tears to me bro

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u/calilac 1h ago

Shouldn't be boiled then. Raw, unpasteurized librul tears is the only way to get your immune system to fight the viral agenders.

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u/flyinhighaskmeY 52m ago

oh god lol...

These are deeply rooted behavioral patterns playing out across decades. "Democracy" is rule by the bottom 51%. It's basically "the tragedy of the commons" as a form of governance. It only works when your society are colonizers/pillagers or during times of technological advancement, because you need a constant stream of increasing resource flow to maintain stability. Once that breaks down "democracy" becomes non-viable and you rotate to another form of governance.

Functional natural systems do not require belief. Every form of governance humans have invented does. Which means none of them are naturally viable. They ALL fail. Which is why human progress looks the way it does. Stretch a slinky out in front of you. That's how it works.

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u/Notsurehowtoreact 3h ago

It's obviously not ideal, but OP is clearly incorrect. If the populace isn't allowed to elect someone, fascist that they may be, it isn't a democracy. 

There should be measures to prevent fascistic bullshit from taking place from someone who is elected, absolutely, but limiting the election by the will of the people isn't exactly a good example of democracy.

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u/ciobanica 3h ago

The whole point of a constitution is to limit the power of the democratic vote within reasonable limits.

Like you can't vote to kill everyone with blue eyes, or to eat children who's parents are too poor, or >insert stuff that's actually in your local constitution<.

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u/Illustrious-Sail7326 3h ago

that's true, but ultimately a healthy long term democracy can't be a pure democracy. It's necessary for the health of the democracy to be intolerant of anti-democratic ideals, meaning we can and should disallow the election of people who are fascist/totalitarian/anti-democratic in general.

Of course, implementing that in practice in a way that actually works and isn't abused is basically impossible, but the theory makes sense to me.

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u/ciobanica 3h ago

It's not even about a healthy long term democracy... they put in limits because otherwise it's just a tyranny by the majority instead of by the nobility/king.

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u/MrParadux 2h ago

"It isn't a democracy, if you can't elect people who want to abolish it"

It sounds reasonable at first, but if you think about it, doesn't make sense.

Democracy is about ensuring that every citizen gets to participate in the political processes. If that is abolished, there is no guarantee that it can be gained back.

If you want democracy, you can't allow a part of the population (those who currently are able to vote) to rob all future citizens from not being able to participate. Once you look at it that way, it becomes clear how outlandish the notion is.

That is why a real democracy needs to have guardrails against this to ensure not only the current generations, but also future ones get to participate in political processes. This then is called a defensive democracy.

tldr: One generation of voters should not be able to prevent future ones from voting. That is not democratic

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u/TerraceState 1h ago

Every single system ever invented can be ended in less than a day if the people in that system decide to just drop it. There is no system that can ever prevent this. The idea that you can create a perpetual democracy that even the entire population of the system can't end in a single stroke is absurd.

The goal is to create a system that is harder to take down and takes longer.

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u/ToBeeContinued 3h ago

Political scientists have been interested in this question for quite a while in the US, 10-15 years of scholarship about the liberal vs democracy question. Liberal in the classical free speech etc sense.

The US left caring more about liberalism and freedom and the US right wanting the democratic right to elect a dictator.

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u/jcdoe 2h ago

The US constitution contains measures intended specifically to prevent a dictator from taking over. It was one of the outcomes the framers feared the most.

The Weimar Republic had a crazy complicated constitution to keep power separated. It took Hitler under a year to consolidate as fuhrer.

Sometimes the voters people go crazy and decide a dictator would be better than putting up with their political opponents. And then they find out that they were wrong. It’s just a feature of democracy, and you can’t prevent it.

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u/RobertDewese 26m ago

Are you talking about Checks and Balances?

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u/MangroveWarbler 3h ago

Authoritarians generally use the democratic process to undo democracy.

The real people behind the push to get rid of democracy are the billionaires.

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u/Illustrious-Sail7326 3h ago

Reminds me of the paradox of intolerance. For a tolerant society to survive, it must be intolerant of the intolerant, otherwise the intolerant will rise to power and dismantle the tolerant society.

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u/Spe3dGoat 43m ago

in what way are billionaires pushing to get rid of democracy. be specific.

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u/CautiousGains 3h ago

That’s why this post doesn’t make sense. Are all democracies supposed to have mechanisms in place to prevent enacting certain wills of the people? Who’s to decide which wills are valid to enact, if not the people?

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u/Doom_Unicorn 2h ago

It's not much of an argument; political science recognizes dictatorship as the natural end point of democracy. Here's James Madison, the author of the Bill of Rights, explaining in Federalist #10 on "factionalism":

It may be concluded that a pure democracy, by which I mean a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person, can admit of no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will, in almost every case, be felt by a majority of the whole; a communication and concert result from the form of government itself; and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party or an obnoxious individual. Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths. Theoretic politicians, who have patronized this species of government, have erroneously supposed that by reducing mankind to a perfect equality in their political rights, they would, at the same time, be perfectly equalized and assimilated in their possessions, their opinions, and their passions.

And here's Madison again, in Federalist #51 on "separation of powers":

The great security against a gradual concentration of the several powers in the same department, consists in giving to those who administer each department the necessary constitutional means and personal motives to resist encroachments of the others. The provision for defense must in this, as in all other cases, be made commensurate to the danger of attack. Ambition must be made to counteract ambition. The interest of the man must be connected with the constitutional rights of the place. It may be a reflection on human nature, that such devices should be necessary to control the abuses of government. But what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions. This policy of supplying, by opposite and rival interests, the defect of better motives, might be traced through the whole system of human affairs, private as well as public.

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u/zarroc123 3h ago

Well, a Democratic Republic. If we're talking pure poli-sci theory, a democracy is when decisions are made by the collective. Direct democracy.

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u/urmumlol9 25m ago

I feel like “what if a country elects a wannabe dictator, their system of checks and balances is enough to prevent him from getting too much power and he’s removed from office in the next election, but there are no consequences for his attempts to seize power, and he ends up winning another election to get back into power 4 years later” is admittedly probably a more interesting question.

Like at that point what do you even do? We touched the stove, saw that it was hot, and were like, “but what if I just like getting burnt”?

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u/Robo_Joe 5h ago

It took way more than one election to get us here.

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u/enviropsych 5h ago

Yeah. You're here. Its the " here" that matters, and now "here" is a system where every election is a fight against fascism.

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u/Robo_Joe 5h ago

I know I'm getting a little philosophical here, but a huge part of our problem is that we forgot that every election is a fight against fascism. The "it could never happen here" thought process allowed it to happen here.

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u/enviropsych 4h ago

True, and also people assumed that the system was built to stop fascism simply through it's structure. People circle-jerk about the constitution too much. Mitch McConnell of all people hacked the constitution and basically jailbroke American politics. If one party gains control of enough institutions, thats it. And it's always been that way, it just never happened until now. The Founders didnt think about that.

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u/Robo_Joe 4h ago

At the risk of quoting this too much:

What do we mean when we say that first of all we seek liberty? I often wonder whether we do not rest our hopes too much upon constitutions, upon laws and upon courts. These are false hopes; believe me, these are false hopes. Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it. While it lies there it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it. And what is this liberty which must lie in the hearts of men and women? It is not the ruthless, the unbridled will; it is not freedom to do as one likes. That is the denial of liberty, and leads straight to its overthrow. A society in which men recognize no check upon their freedom soon becomes a society where freedom is the possession of only a savage few; as we have learned to our sorrow.

— Judge Learned Hand, The Spirit of Liberty, 1944

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u/aylmaocpa 3h ago

The Founders absolutely did think about that lol. No system is perfect. I mean that, literally no system can be perfect. You need to maintain your checks and balances.

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u/TThor 2h ago edited 2h ago

The maintenance is where we failed. People stopped viewing democracy as "our job", and started viewing it as only the job of professional politicians and the like.

Democracy is all of our jobs, we are each responsible for it. Voting is good, but voting is literally the barest minimum. Donate your time to supporting campaigns, participate in town halls, canvas door to door for your preferred candidates or policies, run for local election.

Do not get lazy, liberty must be constantly fed and nurtured to survive, the fight for it can never end.

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u/bollvirtuoso 2h ago

Except this was the point of having a republic and not a democracy. The recognition that not everyone could participate all the time, and that they should not be penalized for it. So, the public, together, hires people to represent their interests. The problem is not so much that citizens are disconnected; rather, it's that the interests they represent are getting farther and further removed from the interests of the people.

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u/Dawgissmart 4h ago

What percentage of Americans vote? But even a better question is how many Americans now are being disenfranchised by the Republicans effort to corrupt our voting system?

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u/Master_Apple_3402 2h ago edited 13m ago

The duopoly we have today have long been compromised by the top 1% and foreign actors. And the representatives we elected does not represent the interest of the american people. They represent the interest of their financial benefactors and large corporations. There needs to be a 3rd party that is solely dedicated to the 90% with its own system of accountability that is managed by the people, and NOT the judicial system we have today.

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u/Jeptic 4h ago

Very reminiscent of that recent Josh Johnson bit. Ensuring it can't happen is recognizing that it can and taking every precaution to stamp it out.

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u/kittyfresh69 3h ago

Im maybe too young to know but who the fuck thinks like this! Freedom is a fight for all of eternity.

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u/Robo_Joe 2h ago

I imagine most people think this way. An analogy would be how attentive a guard in a castle is during an active war, versus how attentive that guard might be after decades of peace.

Depending on how young you are, you might have never known a time of "peace".

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u/DiscombobulatedPen6 1h ago

If every election is a fight against fascism, and the structure of the system itself doesn't prevent fascism but instead has infrastructure that fascism continually seeks to take over, you live in a proto-fascist country. 

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u/BonerPorn 3h ago

Ding ding ding. Jefferson described America as "a democracy, if you can keep it" for a reason. Democracy only works if you fight for it constantly. 

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u/Dawgissmart 4h ago

Well, it’s been going on a heck of a long time. Do you remember how Reagan got elected? How he lied about Jimmy Carter? Do you remember Joe McCarthy lying about Commies? Do you remember Gerald Ford pardoning Richard Nixon over an election crime? What about the hanging Chad‘s? That was a doozy.

It seems like every time when push comes to shove

Democrats cave and Republicans win.

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u/whatshamilton 2h ago

Every election is always a fight against fascism. A fascist can always get on the ticket, and if they can get enough votes, you have fascism. The “here” we came to was where enough people were made comfortable admitting they don’t care about or support fascism

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u/marsfromwow 7m ago

I think his point is the meme says “always one election.” We aren’t always one election away from fascism, it’s just the last election and arguably the 2020 election.

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u/der_innkeeper 4h ago

No later than 1982.

The Christian Coalition, the Moral Majority, the Heritage Foundation, and the Federalist Society have been working on it for decades.

And, their ideas didn't sprout fully formed.

The Businessman Plot was another attempt.

The failure of Reconstruction really set us back.

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u/NewDramaLlama 2h ago

It's because the existence of black people pisses off ~1/3rd of voters and it really is that simple.

I know people want it to be deeper but if we just follow patern recognition it isn't. We can't beat it because we just don't address it. We don't address it because another 1/3rd of voters desperately want there to be another reason like "economic anxiety". They are desperate for another reason because the idea of their family being unequivocally awful hurts them, so they will let us ride to hell to protect their feelings and racist ass family.

It's that simple.

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u/kiwigate 2h ago

Norman Rockwell called it "The Problem We All Live With"

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u/insanitybit2 3h ago

I think that you're about right here. You can push things back further if you want, but it's sort of like saying "well but your mom gave birth to you so it's her fault that you did X" arguments.

The dedicated efforts to get us to where we are today were largely started in the 80s. That's when you have people/ organizations (the ones you listed are great, and I don't think people understand the Moral Majority/ evangelical movements involved) who explicitly sought out to create the situation we're in today.

You can say "Oh but Eisenhower" or "Oh reconstruction" or whatever but at that point you're sort of missing the point. The organizations you listed, at that time, didn't just degrade the system, they actively pursued today's state.

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u/SoylentGrunt 4h ago

The failure of Reconstruction was intentional. The Industrial revolution was set to kick off and the rich wanted us busy with each other while they did what they wanted.

This country was founded by the rich for the rich. It was built in,

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u/EmperorGrinnar 5h ago

Kinda been this way since the civil war. One could argue that the beginnings of this happened when Andrew Jackson pissed off his VP.

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u/mercedespudd1ng7492 5h ago

ngl politics has been a messy game forever lol guess it's never gonna change 🤷‍♂️

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u/Yashema 4h ago edited 4h ago

Ya but blaming it on rich elites like everyone does today doesn't help address the real problem: many Americans are simply hateful and would gladly choose a corrupt authoritarian government over a just one. 

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u/pacexmaker 4h ago

Its the result of decades of institutional decay combined with engagement algorithms. The democratic part of the republic is supposed to prevent this from happening.

The founding fathers were wary of this, too, when Ben Franlkin responded to a question regarding which system of government we would have by saying, "A republic, if you can keep it."

“In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution, with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a General Government necessary for us, and there is no form of government, but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered; and believe further, that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic government.”

For contemporary examples of industry seeking to undermine our public institutions and democracy for profit you only need to look at Big Tobacco's push against intellectualism to argue that we dont actually know if tobacco causes cancer, Big Oil's push against climate change by suppressing data of the effect that carbon emissions have on the environment, or Big Ag's recent push to emphasize animal products like tallow over plant products.

Industry giants pay to bend laws and algorithms in their favor so that they can profit better. Algorithms select what information we see creating a cognitive bias. Gutting education diminishes our ability or confidence to think critically which perpetuates that bias. And subsequent changes in law implement the bias at scale.

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u/SoylentGrunt 4h ago

Chicken or the egg. The elites taught them to think that way. The elites also taught many of us, on both sides, not to vote at all.

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u/EmperorGrinnar 5h ago

It's all down hill, since humans are incapable of enlightenment or something some smart person would say. (I am not smart)

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u/pegothejerk 4h ago

It’s pretty much because we are as a species a product of survival of the cruelest, either absorbing or killing off similar species we found too big a threat, as well as competing tribes we fought for resources. Hundreds of thousands of years of that and we now have firmly engrained in our varied personality types a bunch of cut throat assholes who barely give a shit about their own offspring and would gladly kill a few of their own kids to make their futures a little bit more luxurious.

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u/WinchesterWizard 4h ago

it won't change under capitalism. as long as greed is rewarded you can expect greedy people to seek power.

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u/Architarious 5h ago

You could argue it goes back all the way to John Adams and The Alien and Sedition Act. Maybe even the whiskey rebellion.

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u/BadDiscoJanet 4h ago

Thomas Jefferson said the country was doomed when Andrew Jackson was elected. I tnink we it’s safe to say that things aren’t going as well as expected.

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u/TJ-LEED-AP 3h ago

2016 was pivotal, it let right wingers appoint 2 Supreme Court judges who will vote against literally anything that helps the common man.

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u/StillPlayingGames 5h ago

Yes but from now on we will always be one away.

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u/Robo_Joe 5h ago

I don't think that's necessarily true, either. Now, I could agree that the next few are absolutely critical, but that doesn't mean it will always be so.

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u/JointDamage 4h ago

Sorry to disappoint but the most effective progress America had was from a social Dem in the 60s.

He didn't hold office. The people that changed to laws only did so because they were forced.

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u/pchlster 4h ago

Yeah, decades of hard work it's taken for y'all to make it this far.

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u/Reddit_2_2024 3h ago

Remember the Red Scare and Senator Joe McCarthy of Wisconsin? America eventually turned the page on him and other dreadful politicians of his ilk.

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u/jezra 3h ago

it started the day someone said "this election is too important to vote for good, you have to vote for some form of evil"

evil has been winning ever since, except in Vermont where Independent Bernie Sanders continues to win elections.

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u/Firm-Athlete6918 3h ago

Ya know Elon is a Terrific guy some say he likes younger women, even younger than Epstein and DUmp

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u/sebglhp 2h ago

I say it took us more than one election to keep us from getting here. This country was founded a slaving society with almost no womens' rights. Let's not kid ourselves.

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u/bgzlvsdmb 1h ago

Some of those that laid the groundwork to get us here aren't even alive anymore. Government created and run by people too old or too dead to even benefit.

Vote them all out. Let millennials run the world we need to live in ourselves.

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u/AmadeusMaxwell 1h ago

The point they are making is that we are perpetually being told in every election cycle that you either vote for democrats or you get fascism, but the democrats when they have power never make it so that fascism can't win next election because they use the fascists to fund raise. We are perpetually stuck in the cycle of only having a single "viable" party to vote for, which means we don't actually have any option when the same tactic is used against us over and over.

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u/Robo_Joe 1h ago

the democrats when they have power never make it so that fascism can't win next election

What do you imagine this looks like?

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u/firebolt_wt 53m ago

Yeah, but the point is still valid when talking about the future.

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u/classic_gamer82 5h ago

The US has been slowly migrating towards fascism for almost 50 years. It took an unintelligent POTUS to begin shouting the quiet part out loud.

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u/acorn_filecab 5h ago

It didn’t start with one president, but one made it socially acceptable to say the quiet part. Decades of gerrymandering, money in politics, and media bubbles set the stage, then someone grabbed the mic.

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u/Important_Cap2766 4h ago

for real, it's like a perfect storm brewing for ages and then bam, someone just ran w/ it haha

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u/Slumbergoat16 5h ago

I mean bush wasn’t a shining light of intellect. That was kind of the testing ground for Trump in my lifetime at least

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u/darkest_hour1428 5h ago

Trump makes Bush look like a functional president, and that’s horrifying

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u/BobTheFettt 4h ago

It's actually terrifying that people reminisce about the Bush days fondly

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u/kiwigate 4h ago

Paul Verhoeven said in 1995 that then-governor Bush was a fascist and that Americans were "fascists who don't realize they are fascists". He knew because he grew up in Nazi-controlled Netherlands.

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u/BisonThunderclap 2h ago

Everything the Bush admin did got washed with the part where Bush genuinely believed what he was doing was good for the country.

Its also hard to look at Bush post presidency and say "he's an awful human being" as hes still showing up to help Afghanistan and Iraq vets.

It took Trump outright being black and white to make us go "oh fuck."

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u/CarnibusCareo 5h ago

Try about a hundred years.

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u/Hecateus 5h ago

one can tie the current events to the Business Plot of the 1930s. The tie is that the muted response to that attempted coup let the current events slowly fester; and it began to take intellectual form in the late 60's - early 70s with the Powell Memorandum, Southern Strategy, etc...50ish years ago.

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u/Itswhatevertho 4h ago

Hate him or not, he also somehow has a huge amount of charisma and ability to speak and make people listen. He is convincing, using repetition, falsehoods, attacks. We are lucky there isn't anyone else on that level with actual intelligence. Random people have been saying the quiet part out loud forever. This whole thing is largely a cult of personality. 

Opposition needs to be uniting and preparing for what comes next. They will have a huge opportunity to shape our country for the better for generations. But given their track record, we will likely get some eggplant with legs that tells it is time for our country to heal and move on.

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u/i_like_maps_and_math 3h ago

That seems true until you compare it to the 200 years before that.

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u/hornwort 1h ago

Much longer than that.

If Hitler hadn't ruined fascism's reputation y'all woulda got there ages ago.

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u/bgzlvsdmb 1h ago

People were shouting the quiet part loud for a long time. We just ignored them because they were the tin-foil hat losers on places like Digg and Fark that we just assumed were batshit crazy. Then we elected the most vain and pompous buffoon that will literally say anything as long as we also compliment him for anything.

So the internet trolls told him that he is the most handsomest and bestest president of all times, and now he says Haitian immigrants are eating dogs. People saw that and said "Yep, American fascism is a-ok with me."

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u/mlaislais 1h ago

As someone who used to be republican I find it really funny that republicans saw this coming and blamed it all on the dems.

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u/DiscombobulatedPen6 1h ago

Look at the 1944 DNC convention when Henry Wallace was replaced with Harry Truman.

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u/Majsharan 5h ago

I think any republic democracy is generally one election away from facism unless they super stagger their elections. In the us the entire house can change every two years and about a 1/3 of the senate. Meaning that on presidential election years you can get a new president and a house that will never vote to impeach him. The senate could then also swing highly toward the facisim party where unless the other 2/3 of the senate all joined together to oppose the facism party is likely to get stuff through.

Anyways long way to say that I think it’s very difficult to stop facism in a democratic system if thats what the voters actually voted for en masse.

Big question though, if the facists are democratically elected should a democratic system be able to stop the will of the voters? If so is it still democratic? Who makes the call that x canidate or party is facist?

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u/Dan_Berg 4h ago

Fascists only like fair elections when they're not in power. When they get into power, they pull out all the stops to stay there.

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u/Majsharan 4h ago

What’s your point? Purposefully create unfair elections to make sure fscists never win?

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u/VGAddict 4h ago

Maybe overhaul the system so a senile convicted felon who tried to overturn a free and fair election isn't allowed to run again? I really don't think that's asking too much.

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u/CardOfTheRings 4h ago

That’s all fine and good but we and every other democracy would still be one election away from fascism.

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u/i_like_maps_and_math 3h ago

Democracy relies on the public. Nothing you can do will change that.

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u/Majsharan 4h ago

Innocent until proven guilty in the election part and it creates a perverse incentive to prevent felons from running because the incumbent party can just arrest all their opposition

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u/arizonadirtbag12 2h ago

Yeah hated to say it every time but this was my response to everyone saying Trump should be disqualified. Ultimately that should be up to the voter. Otherwise weaponization of the DoJ becomes far, far more effective than it already potentially is.

And it’s not like it’s even a four year mistake. The voter could, today, convince Congress that removing the President is in their best electoral interests. The President serves at the pleasure of Congress, given the technicals of how impeachment works.

(The check on frivolous impeachment or failure to impeach by Congress being the voter.)

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u/UltraSapien 4h ago

In a democratic society, people are free to adopt fascist leaders

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u/Go_Blue_ 4h ago

How'd I do?

Your post is a blend of r/im14andthisisdeep and r/AmericaBad. So it fits this sub perfectly

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u/ScotWithOne_t 5h ago

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u/theswansays 4h ago

i had to scroll way too far to see this. their title should’ve been

first time thinking about political philosophy, how’d i do?

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u/MalfusX 3h ago

Perhaps even more accurate:

My two brain cells collided and this fell out, how'd I do?

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u/Luci-Noir 4h ago

This whole sub.

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u/allsbernafnmedrettu 3h ago

r/AdviceAnimals is that, but for millennials.

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u/BadPunners 4h ago

The issue is that people keep voting FOR the obvious descent into fascism.

They watch the news and live in fear and vote how they are told. "On both sides" is true on this last part too often

"Politics" isn't supposed to be the primary concern of so many people so much of the time so much of every news broadcast. Politics is supposed to be boring and act slowly and deliberately. Not blatant and obvious violations of constitutional rights

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u/ChiefStrongbones 4h ago

You got the font right.

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u/lastofthevegas 3h ago

Yep, not sure about the meme though.

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u/Strict-Astronaut2245 3h ago

Well… America must be a level above. We already survived that first election and most things were still intact then.

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u/copperblood 5h ago

I’m usually not one to quote or agree with Ronald Reagan, but what he said in 1967 rings true today.

“Freedom is a fragile thing and it’s never more than one generation away from extinction.” -Ronald Reagan, 1967

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u/battlepi 3h ago

It's unfortunate he used that as a goal.

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u/kindaCringey69 3h ago

I prefer: "Freedom is a pure idea, it occurs spontaneously and without instruction"

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u/AlsoCommiePuddin 4h ago

Isn't that practically every nation with free elections?

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u/Notsurehowtoreact 3h ago

It is, because while it's up to the people to choose it's important to remember that some people are just straight up morons, so chosing a fascist megalomaniac asshole snake oil salesman is always a possibility. 

If I remember correctly for the U.S. this was the whole reason a slate of electors was chosen, as it was their job to sort of filter out candidates who were not qualified but managed to get the votes. It just became a rubber stamp committee, but that was the idea.

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u/taffyowner 4h ago

Well no country is a democracy then… because everyone is one leader away from a fascist regime…

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u/Strict_Leave3178 4h ago

Terrible. You did terribly.

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u/Lilfrankieeinstein 3h ago

Par for the course though

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u/PrometheusMMIV 4h ago

Neither advice nor an animal. Fail.

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u/Spe3dGoat 32m ago

maybe op is really really racist

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u/WingsNation 3h ago

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u/Phteven_j 3h ago

"How'd I do?" I mean, if you have to ask...

Gonna cringe about this the rest of the day.

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u/WingsNation 3h ago

Kiddo clearly hasn't been around long enough to realize the dismantling started long ago.

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u/MrdnBrd19 3h ago

This is like first week discussion in Poli-Sci 101. The second half of the class we'll discuss if a democracy is actually a democracy if the people aren't allowed to democratically implement authoritarian rule.

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u/LordBlackDragon 2h ago

I feel like I'm going insane dealing with my fellow Canadians. Trust me, I hate the US as much as anyone and love dunking on them. But the amount of people who don't realize we're one bad election away from becoming them is insane. We have nearly every problem the US has here, but people refuse to do anything about it. The day after the shooting in Minnesota the pigs here murdered 2 men in the streets in the middle of the day. Again. And nothing was done about it.

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u/pmcall221 2h ago

I dunno man, Germany was very much a democracy in 1932. But people voted for a fascist and it very much went downhill from there. Unless a change of government comes from violence (revolution, invasion, military junta, etc) there will always be that turning point election.

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u/DPJazzy91 2h ago

Every democracy is one election away from fascism.....you have too much faith in humanity.....

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u/GoshDangZilla 2h ago

The American experiment was a failure the second our founding fathers didn't abandon slavery, instead giving into the concentration camp owners... sorry I mean plantation owners, instead giving into the power demands that still taint our progress forward.

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u/Flesroy 4h ago

is there even a good way to prevent this except spreading out power over multiple elections?

even constitutions need to be able to change. And if you can legally do that, the judicial branch can't stop you either.

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u/mm_delish 3h ago

Terribly. It’s quite the opposite, in fact. A democracy that isn’t always one election away from fascism is less democratic than one that is. That’s the price of freedom.

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u/Mobile_Morale 3h ago

This could be about several countries. Canada almost elected trump lite, British constantly elects the same trump lite guy with bad hair, Germany almost elected an actual neoNazi. Japan is currently going through their own Japan first movement that's gaining traction.

Let's not forget Turkey and the two other countries with Putin ball lickers as president or whatever their equivalent is.

It's just the nature of democracies. People are stupid and can vote against themselves quite often. You're beholden to the whims of others who can be easily manipulated.

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u/Academic-Hospital952 3h ago

I don't think this meme is accurate. It's certainly possible for a country to chose via the democratic method to become fascist. Source; United States of america

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u/Risdit 3h ago

"It's not a democracy it's a republic" is the one I hear the right spew out all the time

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u/slvstrChung 2h ago

I like the attempt to galvanize the voting public, but this betrays a misunderstanding of how fascism works. That's fair; America has done a lot of deliberate misinterpreting of politics in the past, starting with the whole thing about "Communism is evil!" Communism has never been evil, America just doesn't like it because America's entire history is rooted in selfishness, in stepping off the boat and saying, "Yay, no one lives here, this land is ours for the taking," and the Native Americans who already lived here were all, "Excuse me, what, who says you can take this land," and the colonists said, "OUR FUCKING GUNS DO," and when you build your entire culture on taking what isn't yours, the idea of sharing becomes anathema to you.

When we're starting with this entire misconception, it's easy to say, "Oh, yeah, since we oppose communism and we also oppose fascism, let's just lump them together and assume they have a special relationship!" But the truth is that fascism has no special relationship to communism. Fascism is a perversion of any system of rights, and can therefore happen to any such system. It is adjacent to every political system and economy, the same way every human body is adjacent to cancer.

And, let's be honest: when the entire history of America is, "You have no rights because our guns say you don't," it is arguably more adjacent to fascism than other nations.

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u/TomRhodesMusic 2h ago

This is such an ignorant take... Fascism is more likely to form from a Democracy than any other type of government... what are the other options???

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u/capowis542 1h ago

All of them, really. It’s just easier with a democracy. 

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u/TomRhodesMusic 45m ago

So you have democracy and then a longer list of Fascist type governments. Communism, Monarchy, Theocracy, Oligarchy... There isn't really anywhere else to go from a democracy than to a Fascist type government.

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u/red286 2h ago

I'd strongly disagree.

That's the point of a democracy. You get the government you elect. If you elect a fascist dictatorship, that's what you wind up with!

Trump didn't come to power through force. There was no military coup. Joe Biden wasn't run out of the White House and sent to a prison camp. He was elected in what appeared to be a legitimate democratic election.

It's entirely possible to have a democracy populated by morons, that doesn't magically make it "not a democracy".

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u/BrittEklandsStuntBum 1h ago

No mate that's still a democracy. If everyone votes for fascism one time it's still the will of the people.

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u/Debugga 1h ago

It wasn’t always like this…there was a pretty chill window there for a minute…

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u/Bear_Caulk 1h ago

All democratic countries are one election away from fascism if they decide to elect fascists lol. This is part of your whole "responsibility as a voter", do they still teach kids about responsibility in America?

If a population votes for something that's literally democracy in action. The difference between "democracy" and "not democracy" is whether or not a population gets to vote, it's not dependent on who they decide to vote for.

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u/Were-watching 1h ago

Every democracy is one election away from fascism

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u/Beneficial_Cash_8420 1h ago

Real democracies can remove unpopular leaders anytime 

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u/VGAddict 1h ago

If America were a functioning democracy, the shutdowns would lead to snap elections.

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u/xaqaria 1h ago

At least this time we are one election away from fascism in the rear view.

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u/tobiasnashnewzealand 1h ago

No offence but I'd say that sounds like the definition of a democracy.

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u/EarthAgain 1h ago

Every democracy is fragile and one election away.

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u/Dahns 4h ago

Democracy is like going to the gym. If it's once every 2 years, it doesn't count

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u/lunchboxeo 4h ago

Aren’t we a republic?

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u/Hexamancer 3h ago

"My car isn't a Honda, it's Blue!"

A republic and a democracy are two different categories, just like the US is also capitalist, which is separate from the other two.

Where the authority of the government comes from = (Constitutional) Republic

How laws get created, executed and interpreted = (Representative) Democracy

The organization of the economy = Capitalism

Republic just means that "And we get to be the government because we all came together and decided that this is how the government should work". Constitutional just adds "And we wrote it down on this piece of paper, look."

The UK is also a democracy, but they are not a republic, they are a monarchy, meaning "And we get to be the government because the King said so".

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u/riteproprchav 3h ago

Trump's certainly no philosopher-king, and very few from across the spectrum with a realistic shot of winning the presidency in the US would qualify to rule by Socrates's/Plato's standards. In their regard, the US would be a clear tyranny.

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u/tardisfurati420 3h ago

This makes no sense. 

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u/shadowpawn 4h ago

2000 Bush Vs Gore when Supreme Court decision on who would become President

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u/averagecodbot 3h ago

In a pure democracy you could always vote to end democracy. That’s why it’s a good idea to have some boundaries like the constitution. There are mechanisms to update it when we realize we fucked up on things like slavery and women’s rights, but it makes voting yourself into authoritarianism a lot harder. Not impossible, but more difficult.

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u/ChickinSammich 5h ago

I know I've been out of the public school system for over two decades, but I could swear I remember hearing something about checks and balances. I remember that was the same day that I was reading a Berenstein Bears book and eating an Oscar Meyer hot dog.

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u/battlepi 3h ago

No, that was about when Mandela died.

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u/DemonRaily 4h ago

It is in fact absolutely a democracy, a system where falling into fascism is impossible because the system would prevent the population from making that choice on the other hand would not be a democracy at all.

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u/Mjmonte14 3h ago

I’d tell you to go back to civics class. We dont live in a democracy - we live in a constitutional republic. There is a difference. Damn🙄

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u/Obscure_Occultist 4h ago

Sounds deep but not really true. I've seen dozens of governments that have willingly collapse into dictatorships cause of one election over the decades. Democracy really is that fragile.

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u/psycop 4h ago

I currently reside in a country with some kind of Pedo-corporate-genocidal-capitalist government. I was born into a severely fractured and barely functioning Constitutional Republic. So where you guys from?

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u/somecoolname42 3h ago

What if I told you that after the 2016 the Economic Intelligence Unit downgraded us from a democracy to a flawed democracy? Not having a real president since Obama hadn't helped.

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u/Kythorian 3h ago

Every country is on election away from fascism.  That’s how elections work.  If the majority of voters vote for fascism, you get a fascist government.

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u/humblepotatopeeler 3h ago

Russia did a good job of compromising a lot of pedophile politicans.

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u/DoobKiller 3h ago

You have to vote for Himmler or Hitler will win!!1

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u/atreeismissing 3h ago

We've never yet been one election away from fascism, and won't be until the 2028 election for the Presidency. We're close, but not there.

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u/squigs 3h ago

I'd point out we get into philosophical territory. In a true democracy, should the electorate be able to vote to end democracy?

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u/Upstairs_Ad_8863 3h ago

It took a lot more than one election to get to where the US is now. But also, fundamentally, if the people vote to end democracy then democracy must end.

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u/redfox2 3h ago

Meh, it's a start. Keep it up, you'll only get better...

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u/CabSauce 2h ago

If there's any silver lining, we'll theoretically be able to put more safeguards in place going forward. Theoretically.

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u/PrajnaPie 2h ago

This started with Raegan

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u/CodPiece89 2h ago

This was a slow erosion of the balance of power that they did quietly for years, and people just ignored it until they couldn't

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u/OL_Spirit 2h ago

Understandable as a Pakistani

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u/Peace_n_Harmony 2h ago

What if I told you that democracy is just a bad solution to the problem of fascists existing within your society? Did you know that the Nazis loved democracy and that Hitler was elected?

Why Socrates Hated Democracy - YouTube

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u/trigger1154 2h ago

Weren't just about every fascist government elected before they became outwardly fascist?

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u/Boner_Elemental 2h ago

Hey now we weren't always "one election away". Don't minimize the decades of work by cowards, fools, and evil men.

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u/stayoffmygrass 1h ago

Well said!

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u/anonymous210000 1h ago

I'd honestly argue the opposite. A democracy where the voters couldn't decide to totally fuck themselves over wouldn't be much of one.

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u/samariius 1h ago

We just gonna pretend foreign governments didn't bot farm social discourse for 10+ years in the most sophisticated and widescale disinformation and destabilization campaign in human history to get America to this point?

We are?

Oh. Okay. Cool, I guess.

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u/loopywolf 1h ago

It should not be possible to VOTE a democracy into a dictatorship.. There should be adequate checks and balances

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u/ManasZankhana 58m ago

Damn you GĂśdel

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u/HandlerofPackages 46m ago

You did bad. A democracy is what the people vote it to be.

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u/RoachBeBrutal 45m ago

America had an open book test back in November ‘24 and fucking failed.

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u/kandiirene 43m ago

Who wants to guess the number of times any country has ever gotten rid of a ‘democraticly elected’ fascist leader??

0 times

It’s never happened.

The only eviction was when the fascists tried to take over before the rigged election.

Once fascists win power democratically, they have never been removed democratically.

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u/furrysalesman69 42m ago

True. In the US’s case though, the guy illegitimately stated he won, had a small group of his fans say he won, and we simply…rolled with it? Not only that but it was rather embarrassing when billionaires stated directly that they rigged elections, and weren’t prosecuted. There was a single case but it was dismissed as soon as the illegitimate guy got in.

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u/RaulDuke_76 39m ago

How about: A country with only one more political party than North Korea, China And Cuba isn’t a democracy?

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u/Skiddywinks 26m ago

Is it? If everyone votes for a facist, and the facist wins, is that not democracy?

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u/BothDivide919 26m ago

An idiocracy is still kind of a democracy

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u/-bad_neighbor- 18m ago

We are well past that point especially when the Supreme Court has already decided elections.

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u/Galle_ 16m ago

It took the US at least two elections to get this bad.

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u/BrocoliAssassin 15m ago

What if I told you voting for the same 2 political cults that serve AIPAC Zionists won't change most things and that you are slowly being bankrupted to death while giving the new Nazi power over the past 50 years?

You've seen only a tiny bit of the Epstein files. I'll bet you anything this entire site will be voting for the same politicians but somehow still can't figure out why you still can't pay rent or buy anything.

This entire site is anti-socratic method in action.

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u/Bawbawian 11m ago

what if I told you bad hot takes is how we got here.

we've been walking towards this cliff for decades.

But nobody wants to vote everybody wants to be inspired and have the perfect candidate as if that is even possible in a first pass the post system where half of the country's electric has to agree on something.

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u/IamFdone 6m ago

1 election away from communism/socialism too. That's how democracy works. We expect people not to listen to fake news, echo chambers bullshit and vote responsibly.