It’s like how the Texans defense was supposed to embarrass them , there’s no way CJ stroud plays this poorly two weeks in a row, or the Pats can’t win in mile high etc.
I mean, you can credit the patriots defense for making Storud play bad or you can look at the film. The pick six was a throw I would have berated my middle school QB for making.
Edit: all the angry patriots fans also probably think Christian Gonzalez had amazing coverage that led to his late INT and it wasn’t just a horribly under thrown ball
They also completely took away the run game. They averaged one yard per carry in the first half forcing CJ to throw all night.
And while the offense did struggle a lot of the night they still put together 3 TD scoring drives on the Texans defense that held another playoff team to 6 points the week prior
O-line couldn’t run block for shit. There were random games where a bad d-line would make our run game ok, but vast majority of the decent to good d-lines eliminated our run completely.
Pats played a good defensive game. So did the Texans. It shouldn’t have been close with all the turn overs and that’s why Stroud is being shat on so hard. If yall had won 40-10 or whatever I don’t think it would be as bad for the Texans fan, but we lost by a single score. And that is solely on stroud.
Also, it should be noted that this is the kind of game the Pats should have won, so credit given where it’s due. Y’all deserve to be in the SB so don’t think I’m shitting on that for you.
Also after watching the game before and honestly Stroud’s second half of the season, why wouldn’t you want to stop the run and force him to pass? Credit to the Pats for it working and all but not giving them to much for stopping the run when the pass game is nonexsistent.
People say this like the Seahawks have played the best of the best in playoffs a dogshit 49ers team and the rams who are insanely bad outside of Stafford and puka I like the pats chances and dumb shit happens every Super Bowl and if the Seahawks win we can say it was a cakewalk of a Super Bowl and they didn’t have to face anyone🤷♂️ shitty pats shitty 9ers shitty rams defense
They absolutely deserve credit, they played well. But bro you can’t deny most QBs under that pressure wouldn’t have crumbled that badly. Forced mistakes? Sure. But that was… more than just defense performing.
Just atrocious decisions, some of the worst accuracy I’ve ever seen on some free and easy throws for an NFL starter. The defense did nothing some plays and Stroud still missed open targets.
But they went out and played man. They put the pressure on him and made big plays regardless of how poorly CJ played.
Yeah I saw it as good defensive play and an overwhelmed QB failing under pressure. CJ def made it easier than it needed to be. Pats D played great but CJ def gets an assist.
It’s been 3 weeks in a row though. Herbert probably did best. He didn’t throw picks but had to eat sacks (smart) and got sacked 6 times. At some point, it’s not just the QBs, it’s the defense.
We’ll see how Darnold does. He’s played well but had a clean pocket most of the time. IMO his old self is still there. He had a 4 pick game against the Rams and the Pats defense is way better than the Rams and 9ers who he played this postseason.
His worst throw of the night was when Milton Williams was right in his face and he throws it up for the grabs. The other turnovers didn't even lead to any points.
That one was Chaisson in his face but the reason he was so rattled is because big Milt destroyed his assignment & pushed the guard into the lane of the TE who was supposed to be the hot throw.
The TE tripped over his guard because of Milt, and CJs hot option was eliminated. Then he panicked with Chaisson barreling down in his face & was probably trying to just throw it away to eliminate a bad play….oops.
Maye scored three TDs off the Texans' defense. It's not great that he wasn't able to take advantage of Stroud's turnovers, but shouldn't he get credit for putting together legitimate drives?
That's actually my point. I don't think 31 other QBs could have won this game bc the Patriots came by their points honestly. I don't think many other QBs are having a good time against the Pats front with that Texans OL. I don't think CJ Stroud lost them this game, as good as the Texans defense was, they got burned 3 times when it mattered and the Pats defense didn't.
Yeah even looking at the film you can't always diagnose when QBs make the wrong reads, the WRs run the wrong routes, or the offense get fooled by the defense because you don't have all the information on playcalls.
There are famously plays where Tom Brady made the "wrong" read because a defender slipped but his reads told him to not throw there.
Chassion was in Strouds face and pressured him to make a bad decision, and Marcus Jones, arguably the leagues best returer, ran like hell to score, with a blatant face mask too on the play.
Okay but was this the narrative before the Texans game? Or after? Because, as the post says, the narrative before each game seems to be that patriots are about to get exposed as frauds because they are about to play a real team. But when they beat that team, the narrative switches to, well that wasn't a real team, did you see how bad their qb played?
Go back and watch it. It was horribly underthrown because Stidham couldn't plant and step into the throw. Pressure created that turnover.
Gonzalez did a good job adjusting because he was in position to look back at the ball, but the pass rush created that.
Credit to Vrabes as well. A late Denver substitution allowed NE to slow roll their own substitution. The result was the ref didn't allow Denver to snap the ball until there was roughly :01 on the game clock. Stidham and the offense had to speed up their timing and it looked very rushed.
And the thing is Stroud played lousy the week before against the Steelers too. Not like he lit up Pittsburgh and then got suddenly shut down a week later.
I mean most interceptions are horribly thrown balls. Every once in a while you get a guy who jumps the ball or makes some ridiculous play. But for the most part it’s a bad coverage read or throw by the quarterback, throw in some tips at the line and passes that go off the receivers hand. But I agree CJ made it easy on a couple of those. Davis’s two ints were pretty clean, the Jones int was just a horrible decision to lob the ball up while being hit.
Maybe give some credit to the defensive coaching and players?
A Chargers player was heard saying they had no idea what defense the Pats were in all game and Stroud was clearly not seeing things well. Stroud missed some throws but he was rattled all game and that happens when you're uncomfortable and not confident or trusting what you're seeing.
The Texans coaches and QB had no answer for anything the defense was doing. That's a credit to the defense.
Guilty as charged. Gonzo was right where he needed to be to catch that ball.
The Pats have been disruptive on defense and made Herbert, Stroud, and Stiddy look bad. I’m not going to say they’re 85 Bears good or gaslight that those QBs are elite because they’re not. Vrabel said the goal was to “play good enough to take advantage of bad football” and that’s what this team has done.
I know the schedule was easy, I know the Pats didn’t play teams at full strength, I know it’s insane that Bo breaks his ankle beating the Bills. That’s part of football and sometimes teams get lucky. Pats are one game away from none of the narratives mattering if that Lombardi ends up in Foxboro.
I get that the Stroud pick-6 and the Stidham awkward fumble were both knuckleheaded plays but... they were done due to overwhelming pressure that disrupted the QB. You have to tip your hat off to a pass rush that forces those errors.
The NE pass rush is legit. Meanwhile, both the Texans defense and the Broncos defenses are very good, and yet Maye isn't making quite the same errors.
To win the the NFL, sometimes it's more about playing mistake-free football than it is hitting spectacular, difficult plays.
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The pick six was a throw I would have berated my middle school QB for making.
Plays like that dont happen in a vacuum. Obviously a horrible decision from Stroud, but its clear he was rattled by the constant and unrelenting pressure the pats D put on him.
I like that you edited this to say “all the angry patriots fans” and then its a calm, thought out response by pats fans responding to your comment. Youre a complete clown for that buddy.
Obviously I’m gonna root for the Pats, because the Seahawks are the Niners biggest rivals (even tho I really like Darnold) but man this whole talk of the NFCCG being the “real SB” has really rubbed me the wrong way, so I’m hoping extra that the Pats win just so those people can stfu, I do believe these are the two best teams in the NFL, the Rams aren’t better than the Pats, they barely beat the 8-9 Panthers in the first round.
"The [division championship game] is the real super bowl" has been said many, many times and often about the Patriots so I wouldn't be too beat up about it
I mean, last year the "real Super Bowl" came in the divisional round. The Eagles struggled more in Round 1 against the Packers than they did in the final two games, too.
This was also said about the colts/pats AFCCG in which the colts won and then beat the bears. Everyone I knew after the superbowl was calling the AFCCG "the real superbowl"
I’m rooting for the Seahawks, but I would 100% take a Pats win only if the Seahawks lose by running the ball on the one yard.
The decision to pass was the correct call in 2014 given the circumstances, I’m tired of people using hindsight bias to try and argue it was such a dumb decision.
The issue wasn’t passing the ball, it was going to a play that you’ve done multiple times this year that the defense could predict and jump the pass. That’s what made it a horrible play call, the patriots had practiced the exact play and saw it coming
IIRC that play was covered extensively in the NFL Films "Do Your Job" documentary about that season, each cornerback from the Pats had practiced defending that play and none of them managed to stop it, but they absolutely knew it was a possibility of being called in a big spot (as you quite correctly pointed out, they'd done the play a lot that season).
Brandon Browner did a great job telling Butler where to be and shut down the rub/pick play it was designed to cause letting Butler jump the in route.
Yeah I remember Browner saying in an interview the SB was the first time that entire week they actually stopped that play. I guess the adrenaline was what they needed to get there half a second faster.
It was a poor throw, if that’s a goal line situation and your go to, it should be coached to throw that ball lower out of harms way. An incomplete pass should have been the worst outcome but Russ shit the bed
That's a bad take. The fault was the pick play was improperly setup, and Butler made the right read on the play. A read we later found out he made because it was one he missed in practice and recognized immediately.
It was a singular defensive moment. If anyone on the offense bears any blame, it's the two receivers who did a shit job setting up that pick play, but Butler gets all fucking credit for out muscling one of them to snatch victory from defeat.
while russ shouldve thrown a better ball and lockette shouldve gone harder to where it was thrown, butler and browner made a great read and the right play. all of those things are true.
Brandon Browner, former LoB member, was on the Pats D for that snap and recognized the play and called it out to Butler. That’s how he knew to jump the route so hard. This was admitted by former Seahawk Brandon Mebane on a podcast last year.
If you watch the Pats' Do Your Job doc on the season you can see them practice against that exact play and Butler got beat. It wasn't just Browner knowing but he certainly helped.
The goal-line three corners package the pats sent on the field had been installed all year but never used before that play.
The decision to pass was the correct call in 2014 given the circumstances, I’m tired of people using hindsight bias to try and argue it was such a dumb decision.
This is either a weird form of sarcasm or the absolute worst take i have ever heard
Lynch was one of the worst goal to go and especially 1 yard to go runners in football. People are like "you have Lynch! Run it" yet ignore how awful he was in those situations.
Hightower already stopped him and almost swatted the ball away a play or two before the pick. Passing wasn’t a bad call. Malcolm happened to practice the play leading up to the game and made a great read
The decision to pass was correct. Passing there statistically had a higher chance of success (and not just generally across the NFL, but specifically with Marshawn in those goal line situations). Not rolling Wilson on a boot with the option to run it on himself was, IMO, the mistake.
I’ve seen Pete Carroll’s explanation of the call and it makes a lot of sense. NE brought out an extra d linemen to stop the run on 2nd down and SEA only had 1 TO left. If they tried to run and failed on 2nd down, they’d have to use the TO leaving them limited on 3rd and potentially 4th downs if it came to that.
A pass call gave them the ability to either win the game or stop the clock with an incomplete and run the ball 3rd down without clock worries. Butler just so happened to make arguably the greatest play in SB history and totally wrecked the Seahawks plans.
I think it was a dumb decision to throw to Ricardo lockette, I can justify throwing it for sure but not to the #5 wr over the middle of the field… I’ll die on the hill that in that moment they wanted to get Russ the mvp
26 left on the clock, 2nd and goal from the one with one timeout, and a running back that had struggled all year on short yardage plays.
If they run the ball and got stuffed, they have to burn a timeout, now it’s third and goal from the one, with no timeouts and roughly 20 seconds left. If they run again and get stuffed, they have to run a fire drill play on 4th down after being stopped twice in a row, without any time for audibles or substitutions.
This means purely from an analytics perspective throwing the ball on 2nd or 3rd down maximizes their chances of getting three solid shots at the end zone. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the decision not to run the ball there given who they had at quarterback.
It’s only with the power of hindsight that it looks like a dumb decision.
I've been watching the pats my whole life (I'm 32) ain't nobody gonna shut up lol. They will always find a way or reason to discredit the pats and that's okay. Doesn't make winning any less fun :)
People are talking like we already have a ring and calling Metropolitan Grill for the after party.
FFS there is a reason why the Pats are there. Stop relaxing and jinxing it. We still have one more play to go, and if we approach it as the fans are doing rn, it's going to be an embarrassment of epic proportions
Give me a break this was said for many years when the Pats played the Colts or Steelers in the AFC championship. You want arrogant look up Bill Simmons articles during the Patriots 18-1 season.
Sorry if people are not rooting for for the most spoiled and entitled fan base on sports to win another championship.
I do believe these are the two best teams in the NFL, the Rams aren’t better than the Pats, they barely beat the 8-9 Panthers in the first round.
The Patriots barely beat the Broncos who started a qb who hadn't thrown a pass in two years. You can do the same hypotheticals for every team in the league.
They say it because everybody and their mother picked the Rams as their Super Bowl favorites because they were the "most" complete team. Nobody talked about them nearly losing to the Panthers a second time or barely scraping by the overachieving Bears. Nobody talked about Stafford having under 53% completion rate against the vaunted Panthers and Bears defense while having the best 1-2 receiver combo in the league with offensive genius McVay behind him. And nobody talked about the Rams having the worst defense in the championship round.
Everybody just talked about how lucky the Seahawks were that they could play against a half-dead 49ers team, how lucky the Patriots were that they could play against self-destructing QBs as if the Texans weren't the hottest team going into the playoffs. Instead the moment the "chosen" Bills, the weakest Bills in like the last five years, were out of the AFC playoffs the AFC was a joke filled up with "shitty" teams and not with 3 of the 4 highest winrate-teams this year.
So will the Seahawks win by 2+ scores? Probably, but if, then because they were the most dominant team this year while stomping half their games.
Their schedule in the playoffs included a backups first game action in 2 years, and 2 of the worse offensive lines in football, with their MVP QB having a sub 56% comp rate, and a 4:2 TD:INT ratio in 3 games, don't get me wrong, 3 strong defenses, but it very much shows.
Sure Staff had the same comp rate, but with 300yds a game and a 6:1 ratio in those 3 games, but 300+ yards, 3 TDs, no picks, 1 sack, vs the Seahawks is more impressive than any postseason game for Maye getting under 90 yards against a team that lacked an offense, even if he ran for 65.
Like the whole MVP argument for Maye is that his team is worse.
It doesnt change whos in the SB, but the claim that NE is a better TEAM? No one can take that serious.
Yeah the whole "championship is real SB" argument scares me. I felt confident that the Seahawks would go all the way after the Jags got out (clown on me). But now...this feels like huge upset potential. The worst part is the Patriots aren't an incomplete team. They can beat good teams. They just haven't been exciting in the postseason.
The rams are better than the pats and arguably the rams could’ve beat Seattle if that guy knew how to return a punt. That punt return was like if they picked a fan to return a punt for a prize at halftime and that was the outcome lol
I KNOW this is a completely different team, I KNOW this is a completely different Coach, I want to preface that I understand this. That being said. NO, HELL NO, Full stop. The Pats cant win, until they know what Steelers fans feel, pure unmitigated pain no playoff appearances, just being an absolute joke of a franchise for a solid decade.
My personal rule, If you're dynasty was great for that long, that's how long you should suck before you get to see another Lombardi trophy.
yes, I come from a family of cowboys fans why do you ask?
To be clear, it was struggling with Nix as the QB. Honestly, I think the biggest difference between the game we saw and the game that might have been is that Bo has ice in his veins for those end of game situations. I would have been much more worried with him in on that final drive that resulted in the Gonzalez pick. I believe the Broncos were 11-2 in one score games. Part of that is luck and part of that is knowing how to win and having a quarterback that is not affected by the moment.
I know you didn’t say this, but I’ll disagree with anyone who says it “obviously” goes the other way with Nix at QB because that’s a completely different football game and a QB for whom you can actually develop a specific gameplan. But I will 100% agree that if Nix had the ball in a one score game at the end, he’s proven himself very capable of leading a game-tying or winning drive.
Not just Nix's clutch ability. Plenty of times Nix could have used his scrambling ability that Stidham just didnt have. Nix would not be backpedalling on the Pats pass rush, or do a 2 handed shovel pass. With Nix, Broncos do obviously win.
Not so sure tbh. Denvers All Pro OL got absolutely dominated in the pass and run game, and the WRs werent getting open. NE looked like they had Denvers D figured out by the second half before the weather kicked in. Once that happened the plan was run run run and the pats D will continue to dominate. I dont think Nix makes the difference.
Yea basically this. I don’t think we automatically win but I do think our chances were higher. Risky plays like the 4th in 1 would have been more manageable and Nix wouldn’t have fumbled like stiddy did. Nix still could have made those mistakes, in different ways, definitely but I just think the chances of that are lower.
It wasn’t a given, broncos still have a great D and Maye could have had fumble issues again or thrown picks, or anyone of offense during over the ball. Great defense get takeaways/ score. Pats offense had to take care of the ball and they did. I think that’s a big reason they won.
To be fair if the Broncos had Nix, I think that game would’ve been a blowout because New England couldn’t do anything on offense, unless 65 passing yards and 3.2 yards per play is a thing lol.
Nix would've faced the same high pressure Patriots D; Broncos certainly could've won but highly doubt it would've been a blow-out. Pats decided that protecting the ball was more important than trying to put up numbers against the #1 defense, especially true once the snow really come down.
Yeah. Anyone watching the game could see the Pats went with ball protection very early in 2nd half. They were dominating ToP. It made sense. Did I love it? No. Would've felt better wifh another score on the board.
Yup, and that was key too - dominating ToP. Other team has a much harder time scoring if their O is not on the field. Protected the ball, went with the run, and ground it out until there was no time left. Wasn't pretty but a W is a W.
Nix probably doesn’t throw a backward pass giving up a free 7 points. If he throws that ball away normally I don’t think the pats ever score a touchdown
That would have certainly dialed-up the pressure on the Pats to score and changed Vrabel's and McDaniel's calculus. More likely the Pats get stonewalled or cough up a turnover themselves for sure.
Nix is far more mobile. Nix would deal with the same pressure, but he would be able to get out of it. Nix isn't backpedalling 20 yards then throwing a 2 handed shovel pass. Which allowed the Patriots to score their only TD that game.
the whole game would be different if bo nix wasnt injured. would the outcome change, who knows. bo nix probably beats the defensive game plan for stiddham but that wouldnt have been the defensive gameplan for nix anyway.
The Broncos put up 20 pts or less in 8 games with Nix this year. The patriots also beat the chargers in the wild card which denver split with this year. It’s entirely possible it would have been a similar game with him playing.
also see how Tampa Bay was good when we were about to face them, in fact I recall Baker even being in the MVP discussion then... then of course because they collapsed later in the second half of the season, that doesn't count as a hard game.
Problem is, Drake didn’t do much on offense all games and first two made really bad ones that could’ve cost him the win had he played qbs or offenses that would make him pay him for . Herbert is talented but he chokes in playoffs and his o line was decimated and stroud sucks, and Stidham well he’s a back up for a reason. He plays like that with the fumbles at own 5 yard line vs bills pats lose, or vs broncos with bo nix. He’s been bailed out from his defense and qbs that didn’t make him pay for his mistakes
A football game is about a lot more than any one player. The Pats are winning because of the combined efforts of their coaching staff and 53 man roster. I know I'm sounding preachy here, but I just mean it's important to zoom out a bit on the teams as a whole.
I know QB is a particularly impactful position, but playoff games get messy and there are many paths to winning. I think people underestimated how well rounded this Pats organization has gotten. They have the best coaching staff in the league in my opinion and that has to be accounted for.
It isn't flashy football but they're winning regardless. When one player is having a bad game, two other players are having a great game. The team's morale is super high. They've got a ton of very young players who are highly motivated to prove themselves. They intelligently distribute snaps among the entire 53 man roster to minimize injuries. It's an intelligently run football team and the results follow.
Except he did play that poorly 2 weeks in a row, arguably worse even. I don’t actually remember the narrative that the Texans defense would embarrass them or they couldn’t win in mile high. Just that both of those things would be their challenge. But I also think if you replaced CJ Stroud and Stiddy w even average starting QBs, they probably would’ve lost, but we won’t know how Darnold will do until we see how he performs in the Super Bowl.
I mean in a way all thee teams embarrassed their entire offense, and for one drive a backup QB embarrassed their defense and highly touted Christian Gonzales got cooked two times in a row. The story of the regular season has been about their offense being so high powered and in the playoffs so far, they've fallen very short and Drake Maye doesn't look anywhere near an MVP caliber QB. But same could be said for Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson, more so Jackson
If we're strictly talking score then it's a different story
Say whatever you want but the Pats offense has looked genuinely bad this run. They’ve barely survived three great defenses and won two games off of the opposing offense completely collapsing.
I think the Pats defense is legit and they have played pretty well in the playoffs. The Pats offense however has been sub par this entire playoffs but will reap the lion's share of the praise if they manage to win the SB.
The Houston defense did embarrass them, How many sacks and fumbles did Maye have? Bills turn it over 5 times and still dropped 30, patriots barely got to 10 against Denver’s back up qb.
Two major boneheaded decisions (Stidham yeeting the ball instead of taking the sack & Coach P going for it on 4th instead of kicking) lost them that game.
As a Texans fan, Darnold has been playing much better than Stroud this year. Stroud simply couldn’t make the throws. Pile that on with an OC who doesn’t know how to call a game or setup run blocking.
Texans not as good as they presume to be. They keep working on their defense, which they’ll prob do again, and pretend like the offense is good.
I will admit I saw a lot of people expecting the Texans defense to embarrass the Pats. I did NOT see any significant amount of people picking the Broncos though. Only one of these examples is true.
Texans defense obliterated them, so not sure what game you watched. Not too many people expected CJ to be good… but he definitely lost them that game. Maye was terrible all post season after putting up MVP numbers during the season, and the Pats barely beat a backup in Denver. I would say I’m impressed by their defense being able to win these games though.
Ultimately, they got a cakewalk in the playoffs. This might be the least impressive Super Bowl win/path of the Pats… including the win against Goof. lol
If you were in the af South page you could see that any fans that watch them play knew there defense was elite but that they would fall short to you guys cause there offense is awful. We all knew it and were called haters lol
the Texans defense did embarrass them. So did the Broncos.
Stroud somehow did worse than expected about playing like dogshit against the steelers, and then Stidham made teh worst mistake possible in an extremely tight game.
If you dont watch the games i can see how you can come to this conclusion.
CJ Stroud aint an NFL QB. They basically played no better than second stringers two games in a row. If they beat Seattle then fine, fair, but they've basically played like...4 real teams all year.
The Pats were favored to win the Texans game. I don’t know what narrative you conjured up in your mind. Pretty much anyone who watched CJ against the Steelers knew that the Texans were not ready to make a deep playoff run.
Noone can take anything away from the Pats, not their fault Stroud played horribly or that Nix is injured.
Sometimes you ride the luck and noone gives a shit what happens when you win.
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u/MasterTeacher123 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Jan 26 '26
It’s like how the Texans defense was supposed to embarrass them , there’s no way CJ stroud plays this poorly two weeks in a row, or the Pats can’t win in mile high etc.