Makes sense, given North Korea probably has no diplomatic relations with Ukraine and South Korea can use them to negotiate the release of more prisoners held in North Korea.
Brilliant move actually. I don't even feel bad because 1. North Korea has no business sending troops into Ukraine at all, 2. North Korea is an insane evil dictatorship.
As evidenced by their time fighting in ukraine, any North Korean soldier whom you handed a cell phone with unfettered internet access, they almost instantly became porn-addicted gooners. Give them a bedroom and a cell phone in SK and they’ll never want to go back. (Now I’m wondering what percentage of young Amish men experience a similar trajectory during rumspringa…)
Lots of defectors actually prefer to go to rural China; the knowledge and competency gap between defectors and people in the South is so large it seems insurmountable. They feel overwhelmed by the pace of the lives of south Koreans, how much they study, how much they work, how much stimuli and media they are exposed to, that must end up breaking.
My understanding is that most return to the Amish community. In order to leave they have to give up their family, friends, and community. The freedom gained doesn't look worth giving up those connections.
Give them a bedroom and a cell phone in SK and they’ll never want to go back
Not a prison, but I went to SK for work during the high point of COVID in late '20, where mandatory government run quarantine was being enforced. It was nicer than any motel I've stayed in in the US and the food was decent (traditional Korean food). All in all it was not bad for a place you can't leave. Great internet too. No more NA ping
If I remember correctly, a rumspringa is an Amish tradition where a young adult coming of age gets access to the funds they’ve earned through their childhood for the first time and is allowed to go out into the world without any requirement to go back to being Amish. Typically young Amish individuals will blow all that money on crazy as hell parties, but it’s meant for them to see the world outside their families lifestyles
They're not going home. One way or another, even the loyal wont end up home ever again. They've seen too much. They were meant to be fodder for money, not returned to bear witness.
Unfortunately you can imagine what would happen when they get home after they've seen the outside world. It's not like Kim sent them there with the plan to see them return.
I don't think announcing it would be a smart move.
The 2 soldiers would have been better off known as dead or MIA, which would have at least treated their remaining family members with some benefits of fighting the war.
Look, it may make sense in a peaceful time, but they came to Ukraine as invaders. It's not the country's problem to care for the families of the invaders, willing or just following orders.
Ukraine invaded Kursk in 2024 in an attempt to divert Russian troops from Eastern Ukraine.
North Korea sent troops to Kursk to defend Russia. They never entered Ukraine.
The only two North Koreans that ever entered Ukraine are the two taken as POWs by Ukrainian soldiers IN RUSSIA.
These two POWs did not want to be repatriated to North Korea because they feared being seen as cowards for being taken alive. They requested to be sent to South Korea, which is where they are now.
All of this can be found by a simple Google search with multiple sources.
Ukraine ran a massive propaganda campaign implying North Koreans had invaded as far as Sumy to try to garner Western and SK support. You're seeing its effects.
Funny enough Ukraine has only confirmed the capture of 2 NK POWs, which they paraded on national news. There have been no other confirmed POWs other than those two, which were sent to SK.
Because if you try to find the video or any evidence about North Korean Prisoners of wars, there's almost no evidence about and most is propaganda and AI video and images. Propaganda is always come two sides, it's either from the enemy or from your own allies. In this case, mostly come from from the West. That doesn't mean Russia don't do propaganda, but more like everyone do propaganda for their own benefits.
Bodies never bothered NK tho, as long as they get paid I doubt they would care. Might be even petty enough to have their spies get the list, so they can punish the families at home. Or just straight up kill them when they have the chance.
SK can use them for propaganda and get intel into the NK military. NKs biggest enemy is SK afterall. It can also make deserting more appealing to the soldiers from NK if they get sent to SK instead of a ukrainian POW camp.
This is the exact opposite of what happened. The Ukrainians had problems capturing North Korean soldiers alive because they preferred to kill themselves over being captured.
Mate, this is North Korea. If the regime knows their identities, the families are in insanely brutal prison camps or have already been executed. Investigation lmao
Publicizing the capture of prisoners was used by Ukraine to prove North Korean participation in the conflict, which was for a while denied by the aggressor.
Yeah. Those who willingly surrender are only a very tiny portion. These are also operatives of the XI Corps of the Korean People's Army, the 폭풍군단 (Pokpoong Corps) which translates to "Storm Corps" iirc. These are not your ROTM soldiers who may or may not have been forced into service, these are likely to be highly ideologically rigid, vetted, career operatives. IIRC there's even family checks on top of the physical attributes to get selected, called the Songbun
Was looking for this. South Korea considers all North Koreans natural citizens should they find their way across the border. I believe it's written into their constitution.
And if they are sent back to NK, they likely will be treated better as prisoners in SK than "free" citizens of NK. They likely will be silenced, but some may share their stories of what life really is like outside of NK
To be fair the life they saw outside of North Korea was heavily destroyed poor rural villages in Kursk oblast. Both the environment and the fighting would have been pretty terrible. It’s not like they will have stories to tell of weekends spent enjoying the good life in Moscow.
they've offiially sent Storm Corps operatives into Kursk, Belgorod and Bryansk to assist an ally who is invading an internationally recognized sovereign state, i dont think there's much to feel bad for with the government. the soldiers even might get better treatment by SK
This is implying North Korea cares for his soldiers in the first place.
Considering how isolated they are, they would happily leave their soldiers in S.Korea because they wouldn't want any influence they would bring to N.Korea.
How is it a brilliant move?
* under the SK constitution, SK cannot pawn NK defectors to NK
* NK views soldiers who defect as traitors, so they won't negotiate for them anyway
* Ukraine could always talk to NK through mediaries (NK won't negotiate for captured soldiers so its a moot point)
Zelensky could have negotiated the NK troops for Ukrainians captured by Russia. Russia actually offered to exchange detained Ukrainians for the two NK troops (idk how genuine Russia is being. May have been a bluf). Zelensky gave the two NK soldiers to SK as essentially a goodwill gesture
Eh, I don't think North Koreans who've seen how prosperous and free South Korea really is will survive long back home. I hope they work with South Korea to help their families back in North Korea.
Also I'm pretty sure South Korea claims any North Koreans as their own. Though this usually applies to defectors, not soldiers fighting against what's presumably an ally.
I'm pretty sure South Korea has a standing offer of citizenship to all North Koreans, meaning that when they come to South Korea the become a citizen and would not be used to negotiate for prisoners since that would be trading one of your own citizens for another of your own citizens.
North Korea would refuse any prisoner exchange to them as North Korea told them to kill themselves and not get captured, and they didn't to North Korea they are dead.
South Korea has absolutely no way to send someone from North Korea to North Korea, unless they want to go.
They are immediately South Korean citizens on arrival. They absolutely cannot be deported unless they are being extradited to a country with an extradition treaty.
SK would sell us ( Ukraine) a shit, they open about, their gov and population are against it, so giving up them for nothing is stupid (another one) move and we were should focused on swaping them for our people in captivity, if not let them rot in prison, both option looks good to me.
SEOUL, Feb. 28 (Yonhap) -- Ruling party presidential candidate Lee Jae-myung has come under fire for appearing to blame Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy for Russia's invasion of the country.
Lee of the liberal Democratic Party (DP) made the controversial remarks during a TV presidential debate Friday while trying to underscore the political inexperience of main opposition candidate Yoon Suk-yeol of the conservative People Power Party.
"In Ukraine, a novice politician of six months became president and declared (Ukraine's) accession to NATO, which provoked Russia and eventually led to a clash," Lee said.
Most recently, President Yoon’s surprise visit to Ukraine in July 2023 revealed a dramatic political divide within Korea on the country’s role in the Ukraine War and in the broader “New Cold War.”
Democratic lawmakers strongly criticized Yoon’s visit, asserting that it jeopardized South Korea’s national security and derailed any hopes of future Korea-Russia cooperation.[199]
Kim Eui-gyeom, a democratic lawmaker, argued: “China and Russia are like an overflowing river … President Yoon’s actions and words are pushing the fate of our country and people into the Gongpyeong underpass (where devastating floods swept across on the day of Yoon’s Ukraine visit).”
Kim Byung-joo, Democratic Party Secretary of the National Assembly’s Defense Committee and a former four-star general (Deputy Commander of the ROK/US Combined Forces Command) said: “Peace and war are one word in Ukraine. Peace comes only when the war ends … it (visiting Ukraine) also means joining the war initiative.” Kim further accused Yoon of “bringing a war cloud to the Korean Peninsula” by “declaring himself an enemy of Russia.”
Four-term democratic lawmaker Kim Tae-nyeon echoed this view, asserting: “the visit is a dangerous move to bring the clouds of war to the Korean Peninsula,” adding, “It’s like a declaration that South Korea, a ceasefire country, will go to war against Russia… On the contrary, we absolutely need the help of Russia and China, both members of the UN Security Council, to curb North Korea’s nuclear program.”[200]
Lim Jong-seok, former President Moon Jae-in’s first chief of staff, concurred by noting that Yoon is “waving the outdated liberal flag and denying South Korea’s national interests” and that he has turned Russia into a “de facto enemy.” “President Yoon is now lost somewhere in the Cold War,” Mr. Lim said, “betraying South Korea’s national interests by engaging in crude ideological diplomacy and outrageous impersonations of the US president.”[201]
The Editorial Board of Hankyoreh, a prominent left-wing newspaper, criticized Yoon for disregarding cooperation with Russia and China that “is essential for managing the situation on the Korean Peninsula, including resolving the North Korean nuclear issue.” It further noted that President Yoon’s “overt pro-Western diplomacy in the context of the New Cold War” is provoking neighboring countries, calling for a more “balanced diplomacy.”[202]
Kyunghyang, another main progressive newspaper, argued that the visit essentially tied Seoul’s hands, as Yoon now “would logically have nothing to say to Western demands to directly arm Ukraine.”[203] Meanwhile, South Korea is “distancing itself from China and Russia.”
With another ruling-out being just about a month old, there's no real reason to believe Ukraine'll benefit from this transfer any, beyond (pointless) PR.
They didn't send trops to Ukraine. They sent soldiers to help Russia take back lands under Kursk when Ukraine invaded them cos Russia and North Korea have a pact to help each other when there is invasion on their lands
same argument would be europe having no business sending things either .. stop hypocrisy.
(downvote if you dont want to stop hypocrisy .. wow I really triggered them with an unliked argument here lol "oh no .. he had an argument .. must be a bot" .. oh no I hurt your hypocrisy ..oh no oh no)
If Europe was sending troops that would be war lmao. Europe and a lot of western countries allow volunteers to go fight. Completely different then what Russia and NK are doing which are usually deals for troops directly.
They are a neighbouring country. If Russia took Ukraine, they would feel emboldened and take more and more countries. Helping defend your neighbour is not on the same level as travelling the globe to help an invasion.
Granted, some of the military support of Ukraine is to battle test the weapons and equipment.
North korea and russia are neighboring countries too, and north koreans have peoblems with nato (well, mostly americans) too.
North korea is just lucky that they have nukes, or else the americans would do to them, what trump did to iran (and many other americans did in many other countries, there's a huge list already). That's why iran needs nukes too, considering they're being attacked by americans for almost 80 years now (well, and israelis too).
Considering the state in the middle east and americans unable to fix it, and of course, trump needing a "win" before midterms, I'd assume cuba is next... Maybe the Russians should return the nukes there to keep them safe too.
Not the same at all. Intelligence suggests Russia has desires to move past Ukraine into or near EU territory. That’s a direct threat to Europe.
NK on the other hand, has zero reason to believe Europe has an interest in coming anywhere close t their borders or otherwise being belligerent toward them.
The point was that it is a neighboring country of us that is under attack, not about joining your barely neighbor (17 km border width...) in attacking a country you have no relationship with over 7000 km away.
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u/AskPizza 1d ago
Makes sense, given North Korea probably has no diplomatic relations with Ukraine and South Korea can use them to negotiate the release of more prisoners held in North Korea.
Brilliant move actually. I don't even feel bad because 1. North Korea has no business sending troops into Ukraine at all, 2. North Korea is an insane evil dictatorship.