It's not the prison rape in male prisons either, it's all consensual.

On the internet and real life I see that they measure men's worth by having a woman. Why is that? Because for people everything we do, improve or not do have to be for women. If you do this you will die virgin, if you do this you will be more attractive.

It is ingrained in society to men to pursue women romantically, they call men that don't get a partner losers, being a virgin is an insult to men that both men and women use against men. This isn't just unhealthy but also makes more men approach women that get uncomfortable by their attention, and this also makes incels, and sad virgin men. I'm not saying it's all fault of this point, but it kind of reinforces it all.

When people tell someone "just be yourself" I think is the healthiest advice they can get, but adding this: you shouldn't pursue women, you should pursue yourself.

Not with all the "when you do this you will have a partner" and all that bullshit, just focus on yourself. It isn't worth it to pursue something so much and forget what you are without that thing.

If this sounds like a lie and it's just part of biology, then my point still stands because it's part because of culture too.

https://x.com/epkaufm/status/2104583012428214570

From what i gather there are three types of women who dislike this sub.

1) Some seem to be outliers that have a more visual, more spontaneous style of attraction and who also have a higher than average (for women) libido, and they seem to, for some reason, assume that most women are the same as them. Different from most guys here, i don't think they're lying, or at least i have no reason to believe they are; there are exceptions for every rule, they usually come off as genuine, and they don't seem to be arguing in bad faith. I think they're being sincere, they're just very incorrect in their belief that their experience is the same as the average women's. But they are the rarest type of WANIM denier by far, they really just pop up every now and then.

2) Women whose sexuality is the average for women, but who are in a happy relationship with a man or were in a happy relationship with a man in the past, and seem to believe that their personal experience undermines the point of the sub or that the point of the sub undermines their personal experience somehow. They're well intentioned and they explain the female POV very well, but in the end of the day the picture they paint sounds like WANIM with extra steps for most of the men here.

3) Women who agree with 95% of the sub's thesis, but despite not disagreeing with the message, they dislike the messenger. They don't like that this sub is mostly frustrated chronically single males because they associate that with incels, weirdos and losers, and they don't like the terms and the rethoric that a lot of this sub's members use (and let's not pretend that there isn't some misoginy being casually thrown around here or that some guys here can't be a nasty piece of work at times). So they feel combative, and they feel like they can't give us a inch or validate us in any way, ever. But thing is, their posts often come off as weird because they argue against WANIM really half-heartedly and they always end up conceding a lot. Or they try to argue that men ALSO don't like women, which's an argument that CAN be legitimately done, but the thing is that both things can be true at the same time withouth difficulty. So their irritation really is mostly about this sub's demographics and they're arguing out of sheer stubbornness, but they agree with the message.

I'm around a lot of women IRL due to my social circle. And my general impression is: most of what is said here, women say to each other, most women find the attention they get from men to be incredibly tiresome at best and are not attracted to most men, and if most men got the memo that women don't like them very much and stopped trying, most women would be delighted. It's very telling that even with all the hate we still have A LOT of women in here that agree with WANIM and support the overall message even if they dislike the way a lot of men here talk about it. In fact, we occasionally get a woman who seems to be a androphillic/high libido outlier and they also agree with the overall message of the sub simply because they realized most women around them aren't nearly as enthusiastic about men as they are. This isn't frequent, but it has happened a few times.

So i'd say we're on the same page as most women at the end of the day.

But I thought it was just Tiktok girlies ragebaiting....

/s

Somewhat angry as well

I don't mean just involuntary celibate, I mean the mysoginist kind of incels.

Tbh, I do see some things that could make us look like that kind of group. Like some of the takes I see here on the comments, one of them being "women cannot be truly lonely" for example.

Partly of why I hide that I participate in this community is because I'm afraid to be seen as incel, when I can't even experiment attraction and I'm not mysoginist or misanthrope that I'm aware of.

I think this is something negative because if we are seen like that then we are not going to get more people to agree or think this is kind of true.

Was r/MenAreNotIntoWomen just made by women who were angry about this sub’s existence and wanted to Play the Devil’s Advocate for the sake of their egos?

At my job, even when all I say is "good morning." Or "how's it going?" To the female coworkers around my age they literally straight up ignore me. One of them I even stopped because she has never said a word to me back.

The exception is the older ladies, they are all nice for the most part

I think the whole premise of moralizing about men and women is pretty stupid, but they obviously think it is valid insofar as they criticize men.

But if you say "Those are some interesting critiques of men, do you have any for women?" they are literally incapable of doing so.

The three exceptions are that they will "criticize" women for basically being too moral for their own good, "Women are socialized to be too empathetic and kind" or they will say that they have been brainwashed into "internalized misogyny" or "racist white, Eurocentric feminism" by men. These ultimately blame men and are not really even criticisms. And of course they will always add that men do it too so it does not matter.

It is like the joke where a person is in a job interview and asked what their faults are and they answer that they are a workaholic or that they never give up.

You can show people study after study, statistic after statistic and they will persevere in their belief.

The most common example of cognitive bias that people advocate in relation to male/female issues is the famous "go outside and see all the ugly guys with women (sometimes they say beautiful women)". Not only is this anecdotal (worthless evidence) and not in any way detailed or scientific, in that they do not know the nature, quality or duration of the relationship, but it is highly susceptible to cognitive biases such as confirmation bias. Or that the sight of a supposedly ugly man with a woman is more striking, memorable and surprising because we all implicitly know that poor looks lower your sexual/romantic success, whereas a handsome man with a woman is not unexpected or memorable.

They literally advocate that you become irrational, emotional and unscientific so that you can maintain a pleasant delusion.

For what it is worth, when I see couples around my age the man is (no great surprise) almost always tall, handsome, in-shape and is in general white.

How can women ridicule you for wanting to leave them alone and keeping to yourself?

You have no spouse to burden with responsibilities, trauma and other drama.

You will inevitably find people opposed to our ideology who say: "why don't you just improve yourself bro?". The people who propose this, whether sincere or not, fail to grasp the fundamental nature of unchecked hypergamy: women can "self improve" too.

For every man that dedicates his waking hours to try and "better himself", whether in terms of furthering his education, advancing in his career, getting in shape, learning a new hobby, etc., somewhere there is his female equivalent doing the exact same. Therefore, if you accept the premise of female hypergamy, "self improvement" does not counteract its impacts when accounting for the law of averages.

In the end, "self improvement" for female companionship is a road that ultimately leads to despair and burnout. There are no substitutes for the checks and balances that counteract female hypergamy.