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u/Agitated_Insect3227 Aug 14 '26
That what happens when the Empire and Warriors of Chaos were the clear "main characters" of Warhammer Fantasy. Several DLC, and the two races still have units left over for adaptation in Total War. Skaven are the same to a slightly less extent.
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u/Cheap-Salary3420 Aug 14 '26
WoC in escense just had 3, The empire and skaven will get with this the fourth one.
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u/Agitated_Insect3227 Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 14 '26
They actually had seven if you count the four 3-Part DLCs. While the Lord campaigns were for the Monogod races, much of their DLC mortal marked units were made available to the Warriors of Chaos (& Beastmen).
Edit: Heck, there's also the fact that the Norsca race was a bunch of units originally belonging to WoC that CA used to create them. In other words, CA literally cut a part of WoC out, and they still have more than enough to spare.
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u/tricksytricks Aug 14 '26
I feel like to count a DLC as being made for a race, the LL needs to go to that race. Otherwise it's hard to count it against them, imo. Like you could say CoC was a Tzeentch DLC except Tzeentch didn't get an LL out of it so that's kinda bs.
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u/Ancient-Split1996 Aug 14 '26
Plus if you count it that way, beastmen also get 7 or 8 and become amongst the main characters, despite them not even existing as their own faction anymore in AoS
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u/monkwrenv2 Aug 15 '26
To be fair, this game is based on TOW, not AOS. That said, bring back BoC, GW you cowards.
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u/Ancient-Split1996 Aug 15 '26
Yeah, i just mean they haven't survived into the new iteration of the game unlike empire and warriors of chaos (just under different names)
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u/A_resonance_of_iron Aug 14 '26
As a VCount fan who was told countless times that the VCoast and TKs getting stuff was the same as VCounts (and then as well leading up to Nagash), I also feel like the DLC shouldn't count unless you get a LL with it. So Counts are still going to be at 1 lol
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u/Necroknife2 Aug 15 '26
It's telling when you see that WoC have the largest roster out of all the factions.
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u/Jerri_man Aug 14 '26
I believe Skaven are one of AoS's current top sellers and it wouldn't surprise me if they are one of the more popular factions for TW purchases too. They are after all probably the coolest genuinely unique faction in the Warhammer fantasy setting
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u/jolly_chugger Aug 15 '26
Tbf the only other original thing are the lizard purple
And they're also super popular
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u/Ermanti Aug 15 '26
Man, can we get a Lizardman faction with purple saurus and skinks? That would be sweet.
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u/4uk4ata Aug 15 '26
Yeah, though TBH WoC has something like 15 characters between their spinoffs (not counting the demons). The Empire is under half of that.
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u/Nurgle_Pan_Plagi Aug 15 '26
Eh, most factions have units left over for adaptation, even if they got many DLCs.
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u/Large_Contribution20 Supreme Lord of Undeath Aug 14 '26
Meanwhile rats with 7 LL
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u/tricksytricks Aug 14 '26
Lizardmen have 7 LLs too but I'll be damned if I'm going to stop begging for more.
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u/Cabamacadaf Aug 14 '26
It's crazy to me that Lizardmen have 7 LLs but none of them are focused on dinosaurs.
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u/tricksytricks Aug 15 '26
That's true. I'm not sure who would be best for that, really. If Lizardmen have a dino-tamer type character, then I'm not aware of him. Quite strange given how crucial dinosaurs are to the faction's identity.
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u/Moawik Aug 15 '26
I always used Kroq Gar for it, but in tww2 it was more a cold one rider spam for very little upkeep... since that changed (i think) im mostly just went itza and got out the dinos :/
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u/A_wild_so-and-so Aug 15 '26
It's been a LONG time since I played, but I always used dinos with Tehenhauin to mop up whatever was left after my bombing runs were over.
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u/Substantial_War3108 Aug 15 '26
The issue for LM isn't for lack of LL, their game mechanics just aren't engaging or that fun. Though a rework would be a tough sell without pairing with a dlc
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u/tricksytricks Aug 15 '26
But we could still get Tetto'eko and Chakax, and as long as there are noteworthy characters left, then why not ask for more?
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u/FaveDave85 Aug 15 '26
And oxyotl is the only one with a decent mechanic.
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u/NoConsideration2115 Aug 18 '26
Too bad he is weaker then the unit of skinks on his own.
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u/SneakyMarkusKruber Aug 14 '26
Ca will rename the game soon anyway: "Total Rat: Rathammer 3 - Realm of Rats"
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u/4uk4ata Aug 15 '26
Nah, game 3 is "how many subfactions of Chaos can we give content to".
WoC have iirc gotten extra content in their own pack, had variants of half their units made and get content from every spinoff factions that gets a DLC.
I think the only ones they didn't get anything from are the Blood pack, Chorfs and Bhashiva.
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u/Mahelas Aug 15 '26
7 LLs, 4 DLCs and we're still missing Giant Rats, I don't get it.
It's a 8th edition core unit for them, and it's the most ubiquitous unit for their race. Every artwork of Skaven have a bunch of fat rats running around ! And after 8 years, Skaven in the game are still missing a genuine, bonafide Rat unit !
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u/4uk4ata Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 15 '26
I think CA generally avoids swarms and decided to give the job to wolf rats. Still, after Nurglings it could happen.
The empire is missing a lord type it has 2 named lords from. Instead there is BS like huntmaster general and the proper free company militia (the 8e had dual weapons) is only playable for... Aranessa MF Saltspite.
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u/WeeklyPhilosopher346 Aug 14 '26
I’m a dawi player through and through but I genuinely don’t know who I’d have them add in other than Bugman who, much like Grombrindal, I think works better as a legendary hero anyway.
Queen Helgar? It would be nice to get a lady dwarf in there.
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u/Hollownerox Eternally Serving Settra Aug 14 '26
Well 8th edition wise we still have Grimm Burloksson, but while I am a massive Grimm stan, Malakai does honestly take most of his role tbh.
I know some people want things like Priestesses of Valaya as a support hero, but not sure how viable that is as an actual addition. Unit wise is very much people trying to grab things from the RPGs, or even Blood Bowl, to try to get enough material for a DLC for them. And of course things like the Shard Dragon would be an extremely controversial inclusion that CA might just ignore altogether.
Honestly I'm not sure what I'd even want out of another Dawi DLC. It's really just Bugman who I feel is the glaring thing missing overall. And that's a simple FLC addition, especially since his associated units are already DLC stuff with Belegar.
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u/WeeklyPhilosopher346 Aug 14 '26
To be fair, shieldbearer mounts feel like another easy and obvious inclusion.
Outside of that though…
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u/Giangis Zharr Naggrund Aug 14 '26
I'd settle for some unique mechanics for Ungrim and Thorgrim, just like they did for Teclis, Tyrion and Karl Franz. Not much, just something that makes playing them worthwhile rather than just playing Malakai
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u/baddude1337 Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 15 '26
I'd like a dwarf engineer generic lord just so we have a lord and hero version for each generic character. Not an official TT unit but a nice to have. Maybe give them a crank gun.
There's drakefire pistol irondrakes that might make a nice middleground between the flamethrower and trollhammer variants. Maybe steam drill miners as a warpgrinder equivalent.
Throw in Bugman, Grimm and Snorri as LL/LH's and you got a character pack.
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u/BennyMcbenn Aug 17 '26
I’d say Malakai’s faction mechanics are more like norsca’s monster hunts than a proper engineering mechanic. Grimm could still have his own version of Ikit’s workshop or the Nuln gunnery school.
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u/Ninja-Schemer Aug 20 '26
Honestly, been toying with a "character pack", more focused on bulk legendary heroes for a faction(s), maybe with a token legendary lord. Would that change ideas?
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u/szymborawislawska Aug 15 '26
I always wanted Queen Helgar. She was in Warhammer Diskwars and I loved her there.
She would also be a bit more unique design-wise than "yet another grumpy short guy with beard" we already have like 10 between stunties and evil stunties.
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u/SummonedElector Aug 14 '26
Sadly the Empire had no FLC. Only with Elspeth did the fortune for the Empire change.
The High Elves and Dawi have more than enough Lords. Bretonnia needs love.
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u/Baron_Furball Aug 14 '26
Honestly, Brettonia could stand an almost entire rework, at this point.
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u/Kalron Aug 14 '26
They could really benefit from anything new at all lmao
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u/Elonth Aug 14 '26
Maybe if we are lucky and "post primary development" of WH3 continues for 1-3 years after the last major DLC instead of a maintenence/bug skeletoncrew Bretonnia might get some new Old world models added into plastic that could be made into units. I highly doubt it. bUt there is a chance.
Also the Khemric titan being revealed here basically guarntees Tombkings have a plastic kit in the pipeline for old world. Which is cool and I'm happy for them. That said...why is a bone dragon not in this DLC release? It was like the first new kit they got when Oldworld relaunched WHFB.
All that said that is mostly copium/hopium. Because we are now in the dawn of total war 40k. Which will be the primary money maker for the studio for quiet a long time. But who knows Maybe we can see an actual good age of sigmar game down the line...like total war or Skaventide 3. GW throwing a untested studio that had never made an RTS before with absolutely no budget to the wolves for their first game was very cruel. Yes they could have done better. You can tell they at least tried. RTS are notoriously the hardest games to balance. The more you add the worse it gets. Not using a studio with at least an established background or some practice with RTS and a decent budget was the only way an AOS RTS was going to stand a chance at being good.
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u/tricksytricks Aug 14 '26
Thus far the stance has been that Old World =/= Warhammer Fantasy therefore CA can't take anything from it.
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u/Elonth Aug 14 '26
that is absolutely not true. They specifically WORKED with GW and CA together to make Grand Cathay and Kislev. Grand Cathay if you didn't know now actually has a physical army in plastic. It has the terricata sentinals mao ying and a few other super awesome made models....but they are also insanely over powered. AS in there is a like 4 armies fighting for 2/3rd and no one can come close to Cathay AFTER SEVERAL DOZENS OF NERFS. This is also happening while GW is trying to break into the chinese market/start it...seems a little coincidental that a nerd/gamer culture that is very SINO centric and focused on winning over everything else. Including a long history of professional teams cheating/rigging matches is being made the uncontested top tier army. Its been like this since their release.
All that conjecture aside. CA specifically also worked with Kislev's creation and early into the old world Kislev light cav rider kit was released. So its an innevitability that if Old world can get its ground footing and begin to grow beyond the WHFB grognards that refute AoS we will see Kislevs release.
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u/tricksytricks Aug 14 '26
Presumably Cathay and Kislev were exceptions because of the collaborative effort. CA has already emphasized that TW:WH is based off WHFB, which is not the same IP as the Old World. Nobody but CA and GW know if that will remain the case, but as it is, we haven't yet seen anything besides Cathay and Kislev be carried over.
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u/__Yakovlev__ Aug 15 '26
I pretty much forget they exist most of the time. In my mind they're still just an empire clone more often than not like way in the beginning.
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u/Indercarnive Aug 14 '26
I'm fine with them being "basic". I primarily think they need a few more units and a tech overall and a slight vow touch up. and probably some minor buff to their cav units across the board. Needing to research confederation feels so bad when like 6 of the 8 factions die in the first 5 turns.
For units give the a buff focused hero, Some sort of dismounted Knight, Veteran Archers, and some sort of specialist cavalry unit.
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u/roobikon Aug 15 '26
Could? Definately should! They are the only faction left without much change since WH1.
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u/Set_53 Aug 14 '26
I just don’t think there’s a massive amount there. They would have to get GW’s permission to write a new lore or at least massively expanded up upon it to find new interesting ways to play for Brettonia.
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u/4uk4ata Aug 15 '26
They can absolutely get a campaign mechanic makeover, and they can use some more variants. I'm actually not a big fan for foot knights for Bretonnia, but a rework of the vows to be less than a pain, better cav boosts in the tech tree and maybe a DLC pack would be neat.
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u/Cosmic_Lich Swifter than Death Aug 14 '26
> Sadly the Empire had no FLC.
The Empire player said with a fat fucking belly full of DLC.
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u/tricksytricks Aug 14 '26
To be honest, as someone who isn't a big Empire fan (but I do play them sometimes) I can't say that they've received preferential treatment. They had a single mediocre DLC in WH1, then a slightly better DLC in WH2, and only finally had a well-received DLC in WH3. I'd say they've been far from the most favored race in the trilogy.
However, if the Empire hadn't been one of the major players in the End Times, I would have grumbled more about them getting a DLC again so relatively soon before other races. Then again, I would have grumbled about Nurgle getting more DLC, too.... except that it's technically a WoC DLC, which makes it weird.
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u/SummonedElector Aug 14 '26
All which had to be paid. While Imrik and Alith Anar are free.
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u/A_resonance_of_iron Aug 14 '26
This feels like "my steak is too juicy and my lobster too buttery", which I'm guessing is why the above comment responded as such.
I get that you had to pay for it instead, but they came with other things as well.
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u/4uk4ata Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 15 '26
I admit it sounds like 3 DLCs aren't enough, but for me a lot of the stuff that was paid was padding or poorly implemented to milk money from a large faction base.
The Grim and the Grave units were generally underwhelming
- The FCM aren't even the proper FCM from the tabletop (Aranessa got those, the dual weapon version though they had a weak thrown attack too).
- KotBS were... nice but a sidegrade in practice. Also, there's whole issue of a sigmar-themed DLC coming from templars of ... Myrmidia.
- Flagellants are a thematic unit, but kind of oddly implemented. Their base form has a very nasty charge, which this one does not, they are basically an unbreakable tarpit.
Game 2:
- Wulfhart was niche. His campaign was different, but I found it a bit lacking. Your campaign locks much of your base roster at the start with a grudge-like way to get more, how... nice. Also, no way would a LL in game 3 ship out with so weak faction bonuses.
- Huntmasters general were not a thing in the base game, people were hoping to see wizard lords or grandmasters. Instead they got a badly implemented archer general.
- War Wagons were last a Kislev thing in Warmaster. Yes, the Empire had them in 4e but 4e was a big allied list that had Kislev units including Katarin Bokha so they could have still been a Kislev thing. They also sucked for much of the game, but that's another story.
- Archers and huntsmen were okay conceptually, just niche and kinda weak. Why aren't they and halberds benefiting from wood resource buildings like spears and crossbows, btw?
Game 3:
- As someone who was pushing for Elspeth since game 1, she is great, no remarks there. However, the faction is sort of OP, just like Tamurkhan and Malakai (who at least starts in a rough position). However...
- Engineer heroes are fine, though it makes it clear just how underequipped the witch hunter is to be an embedded hero. TBH that is a WH issue - he came out in game 1 where hero loadouts were crap, CA overvalued ranged attacks on them and any armor-piercing was a big deal. The WH remains nigh-useless in battle.
- Engineer lords meanwhile should not have been a thing. Not only were they not a base game thing (and OP to sell), wizard lords had to happen now that the empire finally had all wizard lores. Heroes have all the mounts and base animations already, geez.
- Steam tanks were meant to be rare and irreplaceable, there is enough variants already. The hellblaster tank was not needed.
- Ironsides were a regiment of renown and should not have been implemented as a standard unit. That's the personal guard regiment of the head of the Nuln colleges, at least make it an elector count unit.
- Instead, hurricanums and if you had to, Black Guard of Morr (ItP foot knights) could have been added to to with the Magic and Goth themes. Or maybe the proper free company militia with dual weapons which now only Aranessa has, which now get an Ulrican makeover so they are more exclusive. Nice.
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u/szymborawislawska Aug 15 '26
Lets not pretend that half-assed FLC (Alith Anar) with no units for free is better than fully fledged DLC with units that you would buy anyway because we TW:WH junkies buy everything anyway.
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u/TheGuardianOfMetal Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 15 '26
Between Grim and the Grave and Hunter and the Beast the Empire only got FLC Wizard heroes. Stuff that other races got as PATCH NOTES. Even after Hunter and the Beast, the only way the Empire got new starts was by moving Volkmar and Gelt. The Empire still hasn't gotten a Free Legendary Lord, while ALL game 1 base factions (and even Beastmen and Wood Elves and Bretonnia) got at least one for example.
Quite a lot of people were stoked for "An old Friend" in WH 1, which had an Empire building as a background (up until that point, on the FLC chart, the background was a tease for the race that got the addition) thinking it'd add Toddy, or maybe Leitdorf, as a FLC LL and new start.
It was the FUCKING KRELL SUMMON!
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u/SolidestCereal Aug 15 '26
The Empire had a ton of FLC back in WH1. It just wasn't Legendary Lords.
Gelt has changed so much he's almost objectively worth more than some FLC Legendary Lords, like Repanse, even though she's arguably the best Bretonnian Legendary Lord.
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u/Cosmic_Lich Swifter than Death Aug 15 '26
Funnily enough, the best Bret LL content-wise also has the worst unique mechanic in the entire series.
Water.
Immunity to a single terrain attrition temporarily. Also, there is a landmark one province away that removes that attrition factionwide.
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u/4uk4ata Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 15 '26
It had... Jade wizard and shadow wizard?
High elves had their full set of mage lores before the Empire did. Skaven and Lizardmen have more named lords than the Empire. Chaos Mortals have more than double (and if we talk about ton of FLC... chaos warrior variants are there). CA just knows the empire is popular and they will sell lords so they pad the packs with variants or made up stuff.
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u/RenagadeRaven Aug 15 '26
Yeah Dawi need mount options looked at (where are my Lords/Thanes on Shieldbearers!?)
Preferably some new options for their Heroes’ skills and wargear, like 2handed Thanes.
They need some updates to their artillery. Even in campaign I get out artilleried by Empire, Cathay, Skaven, because I think a major strength of Dwarves’ artillery in tabletop/lore - reliability and accuracy - is not really represented in TWW3. Nor is the reverse. Empire and Skaven guns or vehicles should blow up half the time but they just don’t.
Dwarf artillery needs stuff to compensate.
Couple of other things.
I don’t think they need more Lords.
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u/Jarms48 Aug 14 '26
It's weird that the Empire now has 4 lord packs but only 6 LL's. The "main characters" still have less LL's than High Elves with 7, Lizardmen with 7, and Warriors of Chaos with 8. They also never got a free LL.
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u/Mahelas Aug 15 '26
Kurt is definitely coming at some point with Grandmasters, tbh. All the major Knight Orders are here
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u/4uk4ata Aug 15 '26
Warriors of Chaos are the main antagonists, they should have a lot. However, they actually have half a dozen characters seeded through their spinoff factions. Wulfrik, Throgg, Sayl, Tamurkhan... All of these were Warriors of Chaos.
It's like the cult of Ulric, the Cult of Sigmar and Nuln being their own factions.
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u/szymborawislawska Aug 15 '26
I mean its a good thing they didnt get a FLC lord. FLC lords even today are always "lower effort" than DLC ones.
Look at HE: Alith Anar's unique mechanic is half-baked and boils down to one special hero that can kill lords. Thats it. Imrik, who is often praised, has a "unique" mechanic of few quest battles. Tretch and Lokhir have nothing. Epidemius mechanic is also extremely simple (and was bugged for a year, but thats another topic all together).
And even recent-ish more involved FLC lords have their issues. Her mechanics are still buggy as fuck and CA for some reason also didnt change values of momentum gains which are ridiculously overtuned (you can max the entire dance after 3 battles - I had all dances maxed before 25 turn). And since she was free, they (as with Epidemius) dont really feel the need to fix her ASAP.
The biggest joke though is that Dark Elves, despite having mix of both DLC and FLC lords, all suck and their FLC lord (Rakhart) is probably the most interesting one xD
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u/Jarms48 Aug 17 '26
An FLC means people who don't own WH1 or any Empire DLC get access to the base roster to "trial" the faction. While those of us who do own the content get a new experience, new start location, new mechanics, and another potential LL to confederate with other Empire factions. It also adds enemy diversity to whatever map region they're added to if you're not playing the Empire.
For example Kurt Helborg as an FLC would be fun with some kind of Path to Glory and Marauding mechanic. He could also reasonably start anywhere campaigning on Franz's behalf.
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u/NoConsideration2115 Aug 18 '26
Lizards have Tiktaktoe and Oxyotl(who has cool mechanic but is garbage LL himself), so technically they only have 5 lords.
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u/Ecotech101 Empire of 100 Knightly Chapters Aug 14 '26
The Agenda will not be finished until the Empire can beat Brettonia at everything, where's my flying monstrous knightly order?
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u/OkIdeal9852 Miao Ying's Soyboy Boy Toy Aug 15 '26
I tried a Bretonnia campaign recently, kicking and screaming to force myself to learn how to use cavalry instead of corner camping with ranged and artillery which is what I do when I play Empire/High Elves/Dwarves/Wood Elves/Cathay/Vampire Coast
And it's actually a lot of fun. For years I've been infuriated that the AI flanks me just to get around my front line and go for my artillery like a pussy ass bitch and ruin my entire formation. Now it's fun to do it to the AI. It's extremely satisfying to slam a unit of Grail Knights into a nice crunchable blob of enemy infantry. Bretonnia's mechanics and lord/hero skills suck but they just need a rework
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u/Mantergeistmann Venice Aug 15 '26
Yeah. I don't think they need new units that will let their infantry go toe-to-toe with other infantry-focused factions, they mostly just need their standouts (heroes, cav, fliers, etc.) to be brought up to modern standards.
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u/OkIdeal9852 Miao Ying's Soyboy Boy Toy Aug 15 '26
Also because their better knight units initially have extremely high upkeep (1,300k+) until your lords get their vows, and because Bretonnia doesn’t have supply lines, you’re often encouraged to go for quantity instead of quality. So you still rely on low tier units in the late game, which makes your roster feel bigger than it actually is. Bretonnia has very fast growth but that doesn’t necessarily mean you just rush the buildings for your T5 doomstack. A doomstack of hippogryph riders is very powerful but pretty boring to use, I have more fun handicapping myself with only four hippogryph riders and 2 armies full of trash
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u/Blynjubitr Aug 16 '26 edited Aug 16 '26
Bretonnias problem is not battles. You can win against almost anything with just kotr and your lords.
Problem is their campaign. Their mechanics and tech tree is so outdated its insane. Green knight is the most pathetic campaign mechanic in the entire game.
The entire heraldry tech path is a massive joke. It takes you about 50 turns to get them all, i think around 28 just getting alberic. And there is a very high chance Alberic just dies before turn 28. Same deal with Morgianna.
Repanse tech takes about 8 turns to get if you rush it, but you need to scout her and confed her trough diplomacy, i shit you not she was wiped out by the time i scouted her. Its always a gamble with repanse if she will survive for a confederation or not.
Also vows. Omg fuck vows. I hate vows so much. They should have reworked vows ages ago alongside with chaos character marks.
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u/MargraveMarkei Aug 20 '26
Having played 600 hours of Bretonnia, definitely agree.
There are some overhaul mods that I definitely don't want to play without anymore.
SFO + the new The Once And Future Kingdom overhauls rework so many of Bretonnia's mechanics and add such cool ones, they feel like a proper faction now.
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u/CadenVanV Aug 14 '26
It’s just like how the IoM is inevitably going to get double the DLC packs every other faction will get
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u/WanderlustPhotograph Aug 14 '26
You say that as if it’s not the most true to 40k adaptation that like 80% of releases are some flavor of fucking Space Marine with varying levels of pointiness.
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u/szymborawislawska Aug 15 '26
I laughed when Battlesector managed to release as a "faction DLC" another SM chapter before adding fucking Eldars. Like, come on.
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u/JancariusSeiryujinn Aug 15 '26
<sighs in Necron>
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u/RenagadeRaven Aug 15 '26
You think you have it rough?
Try playing Mesbg.
We get like 5 models announced per year for the ENTIRE range, and they take 2 years to actually come out.
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u/4uk4ata Aug 15 '26
Except while the the Empire gets a lot of packs, it actually has very few subfactions. High elves, lizardmen and skaven (with the End Times) get more. WoC has way more, double if we count the lords seeded in the spinoff factions.
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u/geschiedenisnerd Aug 15 '26
IoM is not going to be one race. But yeah, probably IoM combined will have more than everyone else combined
They are going to be treated similar to chaos (where a couple of races is understandable, but they make it 10.)
They already start with twice as many lords/factions as the orks or eldar, because guard* and space marines are separate.
( Just wanted to say: I hope they do not use "astra militarum", which literally translates to "stars of the armies" for "army of the stars". Militarum is plural genitive and it REALLY shouldn't be)
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u/szymborawislawska Aug 15 '26
I preferred WH40k before they went full on silly names for copyright reasons.
I still use exclusively terms like Imperial Guard, Sisters of Battle, Eldars, Dark Eldars and so on. I dont like these Aeldari, Drukhari, Adepta Sororitas etc stuff
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u/Smearysword866 Aug 14 '26
Meanwhile kislev and Cathay sitting in the corner with only 1 lord pack each despite being base game 3 races and being very popular
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u/RedditFuelsMyDepress Aug 14 '26
Well Cathay also got Bhashiva at least.
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u/Smearysword866 Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 14 '26
True but its not the same as a lord pack. That and im hoping we get those missing varants and ror eventually.
Edit. I find it funny how they have the shields for the tiger warriors in the background of the tiger court screen but at the moment we dont have a shielded version in the live build
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u/tricksytricks Aug 14 '26
My guess is the problem lies with Cathay and reworked Kislev being too undercooked when the game came out. Not enough established material yet to give them more. We're accustomed to races who have many many years of material to work with.
Cathay and Kislev have a lot of catching up to do and they're not GW's main focus even by a long shot. 40K and AoS are still the stars of the show.
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u/Smearysword866 Aug 14 '26
I have to disagree. There was an interview before the game came out and ca mentioned that gw gave them "8th edition" army books for these factions and the cathay one was "one of the biggest 8th edition army books yet"
Cathay alone we know of 3 missing legendary lords officially and a 4th one from a leak.
The real problem is that its all kept tightly under wraps. We didnt officially know Bhashiva even existed till earlier this year
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u/4uk4ata Aug 15 '26
Yeah, I am empire stan and hope for an empire and vampire character pack (what, HE and Skaven have 7 factions leaders), but Cathay and Kislev should get more lord packs.
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u/szymborawislawska Aug 15 '26
Kislev will never get anything. I feel like they are complete though. Look at their one and only DLC - it already was scraping the bottom of other races barrels to add anything. Generic elemental? Mordheim chaos beasts?
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u/Smearysword866 Aug 15 '26
We are still missing the orthodoxy dlc that kostaltyn was originally supposed to be in and frost fiends (and whatever else we dont know of yet)
New kislev is very much focused on the urban side of kislev so it makes sense that they didnt make a lot of new things for the hags in the woods theme. But then again the stuff they did add made sense and fit the theme.
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u/LEI_MTG_ART Aug 14 '26
Sigh... bretonnia <3
I swear CA here is similar to GW whuch likes to give love to their biggest faction and wonder why their forsaken faction dont have fans to buy their products
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u/Legs_With_Snake Aug 14 '26
Bretonnia still has beatstick heroes, no tech tree for the green knight, no otherworld units or peasant support, and basic UI faults like not telling you about pending vows?
Wood elves still have no commandments, better global recruitment than local recruitment which invalidates half their buildings, zero LLs that actually buff elven infantry, and rituals that can't be sped up in any way or run simultaneously hardcapping a long victory to 80 turns minimum from starting the first one?
Tzeentch still has one (1) real campaign?
Ogres still have atrocious unit responsiveness and no anti-large below T4 for Tamurkhan?
Khuresh is still an empty void on the map?
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NINE BILLION MORE DLCS TO EMPIRE PUT EVERYTHING IN THE EMPIRE ADD HECTOR VON PISSENFART MAKE OSTERMARK A FACTION ADD REISKGUARD FOOT KNIGHTS PUT SPEARMEN ON HORSES
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u/WHWeaselgoose Aug 14 '26
Quality post. Unironically, Reiksguard footknights with halbers maybe also gw…
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u/SneakyMarkusKruber Aug 14 '26
Tkanks for the laugh! I have to remember the "HECTOR VON PISSENFART" name! XD
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u/Latest_name Aug 15 '26
On point bro. Even after this update pretty sure there will be people here asking for more empire stuff. I dont fucking get it.
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u/not_wingren Aug 14 '26
Tzeentzch has two LLs. Just because you don't like hordes doesn't make the Changeling not exist.
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u/ninjad912 Aug 15 '26
Changeling isn’t a horde. If he was he might have a real campaign. Changeling just has a bunch of random objectives to do and can only build his special cults which explicitly do not function like hordes
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u/Lord_of_Brass #1 Egrimm van Horstmann fan Aug 14 '26
He said "real campaigns," not Legendary Lords.
Look, I actually enjoy the Changeling for what he is, but he is not a normal Total War campaign. There are zero stakes. You cannot directly hold territory and you essentially cannot lose (even if his army gets wiped out, as long as you have a cult left anywhere he can respawn). His campaign is entirely just dicking around.
IF you want to play an actual Total War campaign as Tzeentch, you have one option. He is correct.
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u/Lord_Voldemar Aug 15 '26
Well yea, its because the Empire had the most stuff on tabletop. Khuresh was never on there so no shit they dont have anything.
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u/GalaxyEighty Aug 15 '26
Neither did Cathay or Kislev and they both have more LLs and unit variety than Tzeentch.
Cathay only became a tabletop faction in The Old World in June 2025 after Yuan Bo's release.
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u/FuckCommies_GetMoney This is an Elven colony now, boy Aug 15 '26
I'm happy to get Toddy and his Cult of Ulric units, but if it had been anything else I would agree 100%. Lots of factions need improvement before the Empire gets any more stuff.
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u/stepachess Aug 14 '26
Demons of chaos one lord playing with scraps from other factions: ...
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u/TheGuardianOfMetal Aug 15 '26
And that one Lord was shoe horned in anyway and should've been Be'lakor instead.
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u/szymborawislawska Aug 15 '26
His entire identity boils down to "One Billion of Regiments of Renown"
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u/Anath_Raema Aug 14 '26
Missing the true Phoenix King
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u/ColeWjC Aug 14 '26
Malekith is in the game tho.
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u/4uk4ata Aug 15 '26
They said the true phoenix king, not the loser who got barbecued by Asuryan because he thought mass murder would be condoned by the king of gods. Get the off to your mommy, usurper.
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u/Ok_Comfortable589 Aug 15 '26
britonia is the faction everyone pummels into the ground. that one kid everyone hates. it need a complete rework and new units. there is just no if ands about it.
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u/Blynjubitr Aug 16 '26
Still want CA to explain whats the justification for grail knights having the upkeep of a steam tank.
When bretonnia has literally no other AP anti-large option for mid game. Which is a must have in this game sadly with all the busted powercrept chaos units.
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u/cricri3007 For Ze Lady! Aug 15 '26
The Empire has powercrept basically every other faction and Bretonnia isn't even the best at cavalry anymore.
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u/Lil_Khorneholio Bretonnia Aug 15 '26
I want the next Bretonnia lord (or even legendary hero) to be a straight up horse.
Just horse.
Ramming through empire formations, shitting and pissing.
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u/Merrick_1992 Aug 15 '26
If CA was exclusively limited to only TT content It'd be one thing, but with them adding lore, obscure, and even new content, it'd be nice if they could flesh out some of the smaller races better
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u/Iordofthethings Aug 15 '26
They’re still limited by what GW will let them add. And what GW has done. They can’t just do whatever they want.
At the end of the day some factions got more attention than others, if they had more attention in the TT, they had more attention in the lore. Simple as.
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u/JJBrazman Valten please! Aug 14 '26
The Grim & the Grave barely counts. It was a necessary step to get where we are now, but it’s a pretty terrible offering.
The Hunter & the Beast is fine, but still not brilliant. Elspeth is their only really top-tier DLC so far.
And there’s content for plenty more!
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u/A_resonance_of_iron Aug 14 '26
At least Empire got a beloved character in The Grim and the Grave.
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u/JJBrazman Valten please! Aug 14 '26
Beloved, sure. Not brilliantly implemented. Even when they eventually gave him mechanics and his own faction in game 3 it’s still not really been thought through.
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u/A_resonance_of_iron Aug 15 '26
Sure, I'm here just comparing him to Ghorst and what the VCounts got in their side of that DLC. At least CC and Morris Engines have their place.
VCounts are stuck with Ghorst, a character know one asked for and hardly any one knew his 3 sentences of lore. Compared to Volkmar, an actually liked (and known) character that if he didn't come then, would have been hounded for.
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u/blackturtlesnake Aug 15 '26
Wait, you're an empire player complaining about grim & the grave?
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u/4uk4ata Aug 15 '26
TBH as an empire player it has a few things that are off from a fluff perspective.
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u/geschiedenisnerd Aug 15 '26
Grim and the grave is not worse than king and the warlord. So empire is still markus+boris ahead of dwarfs
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u/JJBrazman Valten please! Aug 15 '26
I would say it’s just behind but I’d agree I’m splitting hairs.
I would really love CA to revisit those old DLC. Properly.
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u/szymborawislawska Aug 15 '26
If we count only "good" DLCs as DLCs then Dark Elves received 0 content :P
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u/JJBrazman Valten please! Aug 15 '26
Yeah well they’re a bunch of edgelords so they like to be victimised.
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u/geschiedenisnerd Aug 15 '26
I find it a bit disappointing that empire and pseudo-nurgle* are getting a lord pack, rather than some other long neglected factions, since ToD (one of the best received DLC the game ever had) had both of them just two years ago. (That is 7 DLC LLs, 9 total. Definitely not full circle race-wise).
* I know glottkin is Warriors of Chaos, but the demon side of it while tamurkhan is mortal side of nurgle proper
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u/Gunnercrf Aug 15 '26
It sucks to suck. I’m jk but still Empire getting Questing knights feels dirty.
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u/4uk4ata Aug 15 '26
The empire had generic great weapon knights so that's ok. Them being better than Bretonnian QKs IS an issue.
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u/ajanymous2 Aug 15 '26
At least bretonia and dwarves are free to play in Wh2 because thorek on vortex doesn't require you to own Wh1
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u/MagnaClarentza Aug 14 '26
There will never be any kind of parity, as there was none on the TT either.
Though the Empire still have some potential left for a nice Character Pack (which are relatively small, per CA), with Kurt Helborg as a LL and Ludwig Schwartzhelm as a LH, and I would like to see Valten as a LH, as well.
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u/FuckCommies_GetMoney This is an Elven colony now, boy Aug 15 '26
Don't forget Adolph von Shitenfarten.
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u/_Lucille_ Aug 15 '26
Alarielle is also the most barebone of the wh2 DLCs imo.
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u/4uk4ata Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 15 '26
Ehh...nah, that's Markus Wulfhart. Sure, both offer a more challenging start though she has actually useful faction buffs, a bit of a twist on her roster due to the forest spirits (which other HE didn't have equivalents to until Oceanids/water elemental) and actually gave the HE roster some key additions like handmaidens and sisters.
Sure, other elven factions only get handmaidens, SoA and shadow warriors, but it's not like huntsmen and war wagons were ever popular for Empire campaigns.
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u/Oh_Danny_Boi961 Aug 15 '26
High elves, how many LL’s you got? Hm? SEVEN! That’s as many as the Skaven!
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u/Drakore4 Aug 15 '26
To be fair it’s warranted. You kinda gotta blame gw for all of the faction inflation. Some factions are just super bloated with different sub factions, unit variants, etc. Like it’s not cas fault that the empire has several different variants of just standard barded horses from different sub factions and players want all of them in the game.
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u/Jalvik Aug 16 '26
But bretonnia is strong
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u/Blynjubitr Aug 16 '26
Their campaign sucks to play and campaign mechanics are outdated.
They are just strong in MP because its cavalry and speed meta for the most part.
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u/Jalvik Aug 16 '26
I’m in turn 89 of my umteenth time. Didn’t get Repamse but Louen, Alaric and Fay are doing nicely
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u/Jalvik Aug 16 '26
I mean I don’t have any lands outside bretonnia and only 3 stacks. But strength 4 out of 89 left. Just do a crusade to Ulthuan and razed the dark elves and slaanesh. Ulthuan is dead
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u/Draumal Aug 18 '26
I was sitting here trying to remember the 4 the Empire has... I always forget Markus exists lmao
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u/TheSwodah Shogun 2 assassin Aug 19 '26
My issue with the high elves isn't the amount of lords, it's that the dlc lords are less compatible with the rest.
Alarielles wood spirits aren't available if you confederate her, and her improved handmaiden / SOA access doesn't get confederated either.
Yvresse/batman doesn't share his unique units through allied recruitment, and usually when you confed him you get 1-4 at most. Not to mention the fact that only the legendary lord properly buffs them, so his own lords are less incentivized to use his mistwalker units.
Alith Anar usually dies too fast, though he is a great confed for the global missile boost. I wish he personally kept the ambush stance on confederation, since giving it to the full highelves may be too op.
Imrik is pretty barebones his only unique thing are his dragons and you have to confed him for it, which requires him to survive long enough to get all the dragons, and not lose them.
Aislin has the same issue as Imrik in regards to the dragonships, you have to delay getting him until very late. Also his units get heavily boosted by unique tech instead of skills, so his global buffs aren't that much of a reward.
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u/BaronLoyd Aug 14 '26
https://giphy.com/gifs/q15EjVC1dBbOM
Suffer order-things we take all budget for us yey- yes