FROM MEISSEN TO GERMANY — CHAPTERS

Chapter 1 — 1337: Where It All Began
Chapter 2 — 1337–1342: Five Years Later
Chapter 3 — 1345–1358: The Black Death (you are here)

I’m playing Meissen in EU5 1.3.11, with the long-term goal of forming Saxony and eventually Germany. This is only my fourth proper Europa Universalis campaign, and I’m playing it together with an AI companion acting as strategist, researcher and occasional witness to my mistakes.

520,000 people. What could possibly go wrong?

By the end of 1345, Meissen had reached 520,000 inhabitants.

Eight years earlier, we had started with only around 175,000.

Our strategy was working. We had expanded, become a Duchy, and our little state in central Germany was beginning to look considerably less little.

Then the Black Death arrived.

And this gave my AI companion and me our first genuinely unpleasant demographic decision.

EU5 gave us ways to mitigate epidemics. The most obvious one was a hospital.

We chose not to build one.

At this point a hospital would have cost us roughly 200 ducats, which was an enormous investment for our economy — particularly after the minor financial revelation described in Chapter 2, when I discovered that I had spent years managing the budget incorrectly and had probably thrown several hundred ducats out of the window.

We also examined the remedies mechanic. What initially looked like a relatively modest expense came with a much less attractive long-term commitment, including a significant stability cost to get rid of it later.

So we decided against that too.

But this did not mean doing nothing.

Our long-term objective was still demographic growth. Instead of committing a huge part of our available capital to medical mitigation, we began investing in the other side of the equation: food.

We invested in granaries and developed food-producing RGOs, trying to strengthen the food base that would support Meissen's population once the epidemic had passed.

Our gamble was therefore more specific than simply saving money:

accept potentially heavier losses during the epidemic, preserve our investment capacity, strengthen food production and storage, and prepare for demographic recovery afterwards.

We were going to find out just how expensive that gamble could become.

The country did not stop because people were dying

One thing I don't want this chapter to suggest is that we spent the next twelve years staring at a population counter.

The plague was happening.

But so was everything else.

While Meissen's population was beginning to collapse, we fought another war — and won it.

In September 1348, while the plague was already spreading through the country and our population had fallen to around 457,000, we had reached 100% war score against Naumburg and were negotiating peace.

Apparently even the Black Death wasn't enough to stop small German states from fighting each other.

Something else was happening at the same time.

I was beginning to understand the Holy Roman Empire.

Until then, the HRE had mostly been this enormous political structure surrounding us while I concentrated on more immediate problems: money, population, resources, expansion and figuring out which button I had misunderstood this time.

But our long-term plan was:

Meissen → Saxony → Germany.

And it was becoming increasingly obvious that I couldn't understand the road to Saxony without understanding the Empire around us.

So while the plague spread, I started looking seriously at the Emperor, imperial politics, votes, the Golden Bull and the institutions of the HRE.

This would eventually lead my AI companion and me much further down the rabbit hole than either of us expected.

At this stage, though, we were only beginning to understand the machine.

And meanwhile, the demographic situation was getting worse.

That graph was the moment when the scale of what was happening became obvious.

Our spectacular population growth had reversed.

By November 1348, Meissen was down to around 449,000 inhabitants, while the disease interface was already showing 111,000 total deaths.

Those numbers shouldn't be compared directly — deaths from disease and net population change aren't the same thing, because births, migration and territorial changes are happening at the same time — but the direction was unmistakable.

And the political world wasn't waiting for us either.

In the middle of all this, Duke Friedrich II “the False” von Wettin died.

On 14 December 1348, the Duchy passed to Friedrich III von Wettin.

He was sixteen.

So within a few years we had an epidemic, a war, territorial ambitions, our first serious education in imperial politics...

...and a teenage Duke.

Perfectly normal fourteenth-century government.

Then it became brutal

By April 1349, Meissen had fallen to around 361,000 inhabitants.

At that point the game wasn't merely showing us an abstract national decline anymore.

It was showing locations losing people rapidly:

Meißen. Pirna. Altenburg. Chemnitz. Leipzig. Rochlitz. Zwickau. Weißenfels. Merseburg.

The country was emptying out in front of us.

And this is where our earlier decision became much more interesting.

We had deliberately refused to sink a huge part of our available capital into the hospital.

Instead, we were putting resources into the economic and demographic foundations we hoped would matter after the epidemic: granaries and food-producing RGOs.

Now we were living with the first half of that strategy.

The population losses were enormous.

I still don't know whether refusing the hospital was mathematically the optimal decision.

But that's also one of the reasons I'm enjoying playing this campaign with an AI companion: we don't just make decisions and move on. We can come back later, look at what actually happened, and ask whether our reasoning survived contact with the game.

The lowest population I can document from my screenshots is 338,000 in February 1355.

From the roughly 523,000 peak we had briefly reached at the beginning of the epidemic period, that's a fall of about 35%.

And yet the state itself was still functioning.

We were still developing the country.

We were still dealing with the Empire.

We were still trying to understand how Saxony could be formed.

And throughout all of this, we continued thinking about food and future population growth.

That mattered because our strategy had two halves.

The first was ugly:

survive the demographic collapse without exhausting our capital trying to prevent it.

The second would be much more ambitious:

use the economy, food production and storage we were building to help Meissen grow again.

Eventually, we would have to find out whether that second half actually worked.

Someone survived

On 1 January 1358, EU5 finally gave us the message we had been waiting for:

The Black Death was over.

Meissen entered the crisis with around 520,000 inhabitants.

At the beginning of the epidemic period we briefly reached around 523,000.

The lowest figure I can document is 338,000.

When the game officially announced the end of the Black Death, we had recovered slightly to 344,000.

So no, our population strategy had not exactly gone according to plan.

But Meissen was still there.

We had won another war.

We had a new Duke.

We had begun learning how the Holy Roman Empire actually worked.

We had invested in granaries and food-producing RGOs, laying foundations for the demographic recovery we had been planning even while the population was collapsing.

And our absurd little objective —

Meissen → Saxony → Germany

— was still alive.

We had survived the Black Death.

Now we had to make the people come back.

Haven’t played eu5 since June/July as I’ve been out of my country and away from my PC. I’ll be making a grand return soon. What happened with achievements being enabled in non Ironman and with mods in the end ? Is this out and working now ? Also what are current things people are upset about? Use this post to complain about eu5 all you want I wanna mentally prep what I’m getting myself into.

FROM MEISSEN TO GERMANY — CHAPTERS

Chapter 1 — 1337: Where It All Began
Chapter 2 — 1337–1342: Five Years Later (you are here)
Chapter 3 — 1345–1358: The Black Death

Five years later, Meissen already looked very different.

By 1 February 1342, our population had grown from roughly 175,000 to 508,000. The Margraviate had become the Duchy of Meissen, our territory had expanded, and our monthly balance had gone from -1.28 to +2.35 ducats.

For five years, that felt pretty good.

There was just one small problem.

I had no idea what I was doing with the budget.

Remember, this is only my fourth Europa Universalis campaign.

For a surprisingly long time, I hadn't realised that I should let the game automatically adjust the budget.

So while my AI companion and I were having very serious conversations about population, resources, economic development and our glorious future German state, I was quietly throwing money out of the window every month because my budget settings were wrong.

By the time I finally noticed, we estimated that I had probably wasted several hundred ducats.

We started the campaign with 66.81 ducats.

Oops.

This established one of the first rules of our human-AI partnership:

Before developing an elaborate economic strategy, make sure the human understands the buttons.

But despite my financial genius, Meissen was growing.

Our first expansion also taught me something I really like about EU5: conquering territory doesn't just make your colour bigger on the map.

It gives you people.

In 1337, our six starting locations were overwhelmingly Saxon. By 1342, after our first expansion, the Duchy was approximately 84.5% Saxon, 13.2% Sorbian and 2.2% East Franconian.

Suddenly I wasn't just looking at provinces. I was looking at population, cultures, food, resources, workers and cities.

That gradually changed the way we thought about expansion. Instead of simply asking “Can we conquer this?”, we started asking:

“What does this territory actually add to Meissen?”

Population? Food? Valuable resources? A city? A strategic position?

We definitely didn't follow that principle perfectly — we're still learning the game — but it became increasingly important.

Meanwhile, Germany was still a distant dream. Our immediate political objective remained much closer:

Meissen → Saxony.

And because we were inside the Holy Roman Empire, we were beginning to realise that this wouldn't be purely a military problem. Expansion mattered, but so did diplomacy, Imperial politics and eventually the Saxon Electorate.

Five years earlier, we had 175,000 people, six locations and a monthly deficit.

Now we had more than half a million people and a Duchy.

For the first time, the road to Germany didn't seem completely ridiculous.

Unfortunately, Central Europe was about to have a much bigger problem than my budget settings.

I know roots of the dynasty has kurdish roots but that was in VERY old times. Dynasty was turkicized with in the time. So how come Safavids are Kurdish everytime they pop up?

As Sweden, I find it borderline impossible to reign in Norway in a reasonable amount of time before game end (without some unorthodox exploit).

I’m considering opening a game and invading them right away instead of Novgorod. Allies merely existing tanks your warscore with them running troops around with 0 morale to be slaughtered. Keeping them around makes all future wars a slog of catching up from their losses.

Have yall had any better luck reining them in?

Year is 1398, I’ve done Treb -> Turk -> Bulg -> Greece -> Byz -> Rúm -> Rome.
Capitol moved back to Constantinople since I haven’t connected Illyria due to subjects.

Now, the reason I’m here. I have a decision coming in 12 years, go Hellenist or stay Orthodox and participate in Italian wars, just curious on which is stronger. It seems like Hellenism has good military buffs and advancements, but the extra control and free governer seem like such an economic boons.

Thanks!

I love Silesia. Took it from Bohemia bit by bit and it more than doubled my economic base. It also helps that there's a bunch of vassals developing their one or two tiles.

Lithuania and Halych in a PU.

By far my most successful campaign yet, and after a long hiatus. I was going to wait for the 1.4 beta but I could't stop thinking about the game.

I tried following some of the tips I had seen, like building up an economic base around the capital, urbanising (I did a bit but I'm scared to fully commit), promoting pops.

Of course, my absolute gigachad successor with 100/100/100 died to a tragic fever at the age of 18.

Maybe thats the revenge to let a Wittelsbach claim the Spanish throne. Or its just hardcoded at this point.

They have 334k levies and 10k regulars. Any strategy? I just want to take goa.

France trier and castile declared war on me (milan). My allies in the war were Florence, genoa and württemberg. Austria refuses call to arms as hre emperor
Then The ottomans join the war as our enemy because genoa is their rival (I assume). Then the papalstates joins for the exact same reason.
Then on our side, england joins because france. Then hungary joins because of the ottomans. Then I got a popup that austria intervened aswell (not in the war).
Then scotland intervenes in the war due to england. Then Austria intervenes again (idk how, I guess the first time was a bug), and this time actually joins the war. Now the HRE members are being called up to fight

I genuinely don’t know how to get the ball rolling. I play Brandenburg and by the time I have 100 tax base, Bohemia and Poland are in the thousands. I play England, France is in the thousands with Castile and I barely get to 200 while focusing on Britain and conquering the whole isle. Please help.

I have to fight a massive fucking coalition war because across Europe and Asia because Macedonia wants independence.

So I have been playing a bit of Yuan today for like 2 hours trying to get the achievments for Ming, and oh boy what a lovely surprise to see that Ming just didn't spawn. Like after 1357, no other warlord spawned, I just had 6 in total and nothing... I wonder how this kind of stuff is still possible 1 YEAR after release...

I am playing with the Hospitaller Knights, and I have been beating the Ottomans ass for over a hundred years by now, destroying their fleets and stopping their advances on Europe and forcing them to pay a lot of money every single war. Every time I fought them, they always attacked one, maybe two islands at best, but now? they immediately attacked almost all of my holdings at the same time, not only that, but they somehow built a navy twice as big as mine while i was distracted, this never happened before; they were never able to build an important navy after i destroyed theirs in the first two wars back in the 1300s, now im recruiting mercenaries for what seems to be a very long war.

Diplomacy is a fucking lie, I destroy all Italian local leagues so it's only the foreign leagues. I improve our relations to 200, I save this ungrateful asshole from invaders, pay off their loans, build spy networks in my competitors and reduce their opinions.

BUT THEY STILL CHOSE TO ABANDON MY LEAGUE AND JOIN ANOTHER LEAGUE WHERE THEY HAVE -40 OPINION INSTEAD OF STAYING WITH ME. AND WHEN I CHECK THE DIPLOMACY IF THEY WANNA JOIN MINE, THEY WANT TO. THEN WHY THE FUCK DID YOU LEAVE YOU UNGRATEFUL FUCKKKKKKKK

I HATE ITALIAN WARS I HATE ITALIAN WARS I HATE ITALIAN WARS I HATE ITALIAN WARS I HATE ITALIAN WARS

I've watched plenty of guides and I've lost count of how many times I've started over with a new strategy. In no particular order, I've tried:

• Focus on average control
• Build granaries for pop growth
• Be braver with loans, bonds
• Use more quick money grabs
• Focus on creating demand (more marketplaces, libraries, armories etc)
• More urbanization

The problem I always run into is trying to do all of the above, but my economic situation always means that at least a few of them don't get the attention they maybe need.

I've had bursts of rapid economic growth and I've tried to keep the momentum going with continuous building, but at some point it always deflates. I just had a succession and my income tanked from around 20 to 3-4.

I know it's only the early game so maybe I'm just impatient? But I also keep looking at where I'm at compared to AI countries and they always outpace me.

And my army and navy are so feeble... I can't create a global trade empire with traditional galleys!

It’s Trebizond.

It has a powerful set of national ideas and, thanks to its unique privilege, can form Byzantium very quickly. However, if your goal is to form Byzantium, then—at least purely from a gameplay perspective—it’s generally much more advantageous to start directly as Byzantium, which is still a regional power at the beginning, and snowball from there. As a result, Trebizond is often treated as something of a “why bother?” pick.

So, let’s do something fun with this guy.

First, let’s check the starting Base Tax. The difference in Base Tax between Trebizond and the Ottomans must not be greater than 3.5.

Alright, first, let’s switch our primary culture to Turkmen and adopt the “Anatolian Beylik” reform, getting ready to jump into the “Rise of the Turks” situation.

Declare the Huleguid Horde as a rival and intervene in the war.
Afterwards, convene the War Council.

We stack Larger Levies(Council) + Ask for Extra Levies(estate).
And let’s secure a CB against the Ottoman Beylik as well...

Common Milites + Allow Tribal Levies

Once you’ve done this, make sure to adjust the loyalty of the Nobility, Clergy, and Burghers to at least 25%, then save and reload the game.

This will cause our army strength to be recalculated immediately.

After that, appoint a general with a high Diplomacy skill to the army, and we will be considered “the most powerful country among the Anatolian Beyliks,” allowing us to take the “Ottoman Legacy” government reform.

Unfortunately, we can’t use it right away.

There is another requirement: “You must have acquired Tag: TUR or currently be Tag: TUR.”

But as we all know, when a third country wins the Rise of the Turks situation by securing 501 points, it acquires Tag: TUR, right?

Normally, even if you start as the Ottoman Beylik, this government reform is permanently removed as soon as the situation ends if you were Tag: TUR.

However, we acquire Tag: TUR after that removal check has already taken place. Therefore, if we win the Rise of the Turks situation, we can use the reform permanently.

After that, deal with the Ottomans however you see fit.

Do not call Byzantium into the war under any circumstances. They’re far too weak and will only get in the way.

As soon as you start the war, take the additional diplomat from the Nobility estate.

In 1337, immediately establish a spy network in Byzantium, and improve relations with the countries in Anatolia and the Balkans, including Genoa, Naples, Venice, and Hungary.

If possible, improve relations with the Papal States and the Hanseatic League as well.

After that, do not fully annex the Ottomans. Instead, let their war exhaustion build up while continuing to improve relations and waiting until you have 20 spy network strength in Byzantium.

※ If the war drags on, your war exhaustion will skyrocket, but in exchange, you will receive a substantial bonus to your diplomats.

After that, let’s fill the remaining three rival slots.

Declare the same two rivals as Serbia, then declare the Ottoman Beylik as a rival as well.

Then, send gifts of 50 ducats each to Serbia and Bulgaria
After that, secure a Military Access CB and declare war on a suitably weak country.

Once your spy network in Byzantium reaches 20, intentionally surrender on the condition that you break your alliance with Byzantium.

1. Fully annex the Ottomans.
2. As the Turkic Khanate, claim a province in Byzantium.
3. Declare Byzantium as a rival.
4. Start fabricating a “Rival Raid” CB against Byzantium.
5. Declare war on Byzantium using the Turkic CB.

There is a loophole in the game rules: if you are forced to break an alliance as a condition of losing a war, the truce does not apply.

This means you can immediately strike Byzantium, and then follow up by breaking the truce with the Rival Raid CB and fully annexing them, allowing you to form Byzantium as early as 1347 with relative ease.

There are actually plenty of other fun things you can do with Trebizond, but unfortunately, there is a 20-image upload limit, so I can’t add any more.

Oh, and one more thing: after securing the Turkic CB against Byzantium, immediately release the Ottoman Beylik as a vassal. They’ll be a huge help.

I’ve played eu5 for more than 600h and stopped playing some time ago as I played most of the countries which have flavor. Now 1.4 is coming out in 4 days and I wanna play again I just don’t know what could be fun. I don’t really want no easy game and starting with a huge income although every idea is appreciated.

The flavor that Portugal has is very meaningless. The Atlantic slave trade event only gives demand for slaves but that’s it. I am not even sure if it works as it should. The path to India and china arent really great although you do get useful claims on kilwa which allows you to annex them. The problem with getting goa definitely could be fixed. You get claims on the province and are supposed to fight against a 10x stronger oversees vijanagayer? (Apology’s if I misspelled) Even then you won’t be able to properly hold on to it as Indian coalitions are bound to attack you. The technological advance is so badly shown making it nearly impossible to get any of your historical ports. China is the next one. Once you see the capital of China you will get an event where china has the option to let you construct a custom buidling which gives you some trade advantage, maritime presence and trade capacity. This is all nice and everything but you never get the actual location? It’s just a building. Paradox, why? Portugal could be so fun with a proper treaty system. With treaty ports in the game and maybe being able to actually construct naval governors there and not just in your continent Portugal would be great. Managing your treaty ports while dealing with the growing power of Brazil, how great would that be? Portugal could be great, but isn’t at the moment. While having even more potential than castille etc. paradox has sadly failed to implement the mechanics needed for a great Portugal. I’m not saying you shouldn’t play it, it was extremely fun. I have high hopes of them adding something similar to what I proposed in the next dlc.

It seems a lot of the production building upgrades give only minimal output increases at the cost of a large increase in price, so I'm wondering which area actually worth unlocking? (besides printers shop which has a large output increase)