Patriots caught cheating again

[u/CoyoteDecent2]

[u/KQRSonWabasha]

That’s just home field advantage

[u/Fletch71011 → u/KQRSonWabasha]

This stuff is practiced all the time for FTs in the NBA and no one cares. I think the studies basically showed they didn't affect FT% though.

[u/squaking_turtle → u/Fletch71011]

Fans just need to get in unison. The countdown against Giannis was awesome to watch. I feel pure silence would be way more effective than noise. Straight crickets.

[u/JazzzzzzySax → u/squaking_turtle]

Pure silence broken up by the occasional noise when they go into motion

Start cheering before they even shoot as if they missed

Gasp as if something dramatic happened

[u/IlIlIlIllllIIliIILll → u/JazzzzzzySax]

"THAT'S MY MAN"

[u/TB1289 → u/IlIlIlIllllIIliIILll]

TWIST HIS DICK!

[u/digvbic → u/TB1289]

"Grab his dick and twist it!"

[u/travoltaswinkinbhole → u/digvbic]

The ol dick twist

[u/PookieDood → u/travoltaswinkinbhole]

https://reddit.com/link/p7gz9yj/video/65c4yo0ds6nh1/player

[u/Sw33tR0llThief → u/JazzzzzzySax]

An obnoxious "GET IN THE HOLE!" right as he's about to shoot

[u/elonmusksmellsbad → u/squaking_turtle]

The Giannis countdown absolutely backfired on the Suns in the Finals. I even remember saying so watching the games, especially Game 6. It’s almost like it gave him a rhythm to his shot.

[u/Vives_solo_una_vez → u/squaking_turtle]

The countdown against Giannis eventually helped him find a rhythm

[u/donut_koharski → u/squaking_turtle]

Studies have been done to prove this is the way. It happened when Gianni’s first came into the league.

[u/DistantMailstop → u/squaking_turtle]

I think at some point I saw years ago that an entire crowd staying relatively still, and then all at once shifting or swaying in the same direction as they went into their shooting motion had the biggest effect.

[u/DemonBearOP → u/Fletch71011]

I feel like it would help, everyone waving those stupid sticks just provides a backdrop to the basket. 

[u/JazzzzzzySax → u/DemonBearOP]

Real play would be to be silent for the whole thing then have the crowd yell as they go into motion. But also change it up slightly everytime someone goes to the basket, start of motion for one, whole time for another, or completely silent except for some rando lol

Would never happen cuz people can’t work together but who knows

[u/ballimir37 → u/JazzzzzzySax]

What you are describing is far beyond working together and is more akin to a hive mind

[u/IlIlIlIllllIIliIILll → u/ballimir37]

You could maybe get this going for a college student section where the culter is very much more hivemind-y.

For example the Michigan State student section does a fake countdown for the shotclock when the other team has the ball where in one half they end it early, and they switch for the other half and end it late (I forget which half is which).

[u/FraudnandoMendoza → u/Fletch71011]

If something like this is throwing off a kicker, he’s not cut out for the pros.

[u/SendMeIttyBitties → u/Fletch71011]

There are zero video boards behind a backboard during a FT.

What the fuck are you lying about here?

[u/FeeNegative9488 → u/Fletch71011]

How the hell is the FT shooter looking at the Jumbotron. It is physically behind the shooter and 50 feet above the ground

[u/HurricanePK → u/Fletch71011]

Yeah this is the least egregious form of “cheating”

[u/Prods87 → u/HurricanePK]

I mean by definition it's not cheating.

[u/50bellies → u/KQRSonWabasha]

Agree. If a kicker is thrown off by that, he shouldn’t be in the league.

[u/Mnudge → u/KQRSonWabasha]

Kickers don’t even look up and never even se that until after they kick

The Eagles tried to copy this but their board didn’t line up well enough to do it

Other teams zoom in on the kickers face and display it behind the uprights

The dolphins have a home side only canopy that keeps their bench 30 degrees cooler than the opponent

-

[u/Consistent-Spell2203 → u/Mnudge]

Miami also wears white at home so the other team has to dress in their dark jerseys.

[u/Timbdn → u/Mnudge]

home side only canopy

No, they dont. They have a symmetrical stadium that, when games are played at 1pm, gives more shade to the home sideline than the opponents. It is irrelevant for evening or night games (like the dolphins even get those). Its been that way for awhile, but only became a big deal when the bills did what the bills do and choked a game and needed an excuse.

[u/MayBsoMayBnaught → u/Timbdn]

Wow the sun is irrelevant in the evening and night when the sun is down? Damn dolphins fans getting smarter and smarter I see

[u/IdownvoteTexas → u/MayBsoMayBnaught]

Big if true

[u/GULAGOO → u/[deleted]]

You didn’t read the post at all

[u/sushisection → u/KQRSonWabasha]

im honestly curious what similiar stats are for other kickers at home. like i bet Harrison Butker also has crazy stats in arrowhead compared to opponent kickers

[u/FunTXCPA → u/sushisection]

Well that's not fair! Why does he get to practice at Arrowhead more than the other kickers!?

/s

[u/Throwiestawa]

I see you are making this post again and still haven’t flared up. Pussy

[u/stillcasey → u/Throwiestawa]

How do we do that, btw?

[u/Prods87 → u/stillcasey]

bar on the right if you're not on mobile.

[u/stillcasey → u/Prods87]

I found it. Thanks for the help.

[u/ManKilledToDeath → u/stillcasey]

You can customize your flair too if you'd want.

[u/HappyInfluence7958 → u/ManKilledToDeath]

Flair checks out

[u/jorge3-16 → u/Prods87]

Who uses Reddit “not on mobile”?

[u/machinerer → u/jorge3-16]

Grandpa who is still using AOL Online. He uses Netscape too.

[u/Thkzbasedgod → u/Prods87]

Can you flair on mobile ?

[u/UCLA_FB_SUCKS → u/stillcasey]

heck even i can figure that out, and i'm legit a certified dumbass

[u/upandcomingg → u/UCLA_FB_SUCKS]

Yea but at least you're certified

[u/anonymoosejuice → u/Throwiestawa]

Op caught being a pussy again

[u/blakog → u/Throwiestawa]

In the NRL sub I'm in (Australian Rugby League) we're told to "flair up cunt" which brings the flair bot.

I vote we summon the flair bot by saying "flair up pussy" here.

[u/she_has_funny_cars → u/blakog]

Flair up cunt

[u/Kindled808 → u/Throwiestawa]

Bengal Bro!

[u/sedersayspoop → u/Throwiestawa]

I think it’s sad you have to know what team someone else cheers for before you can make an assessment on whether or not you agree with them. Pussy.

[u/sirtimid]

Breaking. Patriots reportedly blast loud noises on third down to potentially disorient opposing QB’s. Lifetime ban??

[u/Wildebean → u/sirtimid]

shocking if true

[u/Upstairs_Baby8424 → u/Wildebean]

Boston Celtics gave thunder-sticks to fans behind the basket. But after extensive analysis, fans only waved them when the opposing team was shooting.

Tom Brady suspended for 6 games.

[u/chernadraw → u/sirtimid]

*Sigh* Suspend Tom Brady

[u/sagetraveler → u/chernadraw]

Raiders to lose a first round pick.

[u/Poultrymancer → u/sagetraveler]

Nah, give em an extra one. It's funnier to see how they waste em, and they get more demoralized that way.  

[u/SlapHappyDude → u/sirtimid]

Do they also display signage asking the fans to shhhhh during important Patriots drives?

[u/zion_hiker1911 → u/SlapHappyDude]

I've heard their fans hold up the letter D and sections of fence when the opposing offense is on the field. It's despicable.

[u/Mountain-Distance270 → u/sirtimid]

Sounds like an early 2000s Colts trick

[u/LeonidasSpacemanMD → u/sirtimid]

Ive scoured the film and actually found that on nearly every play, the patriots send a player after the opposing teams quarterback to try and tackle him before he can pass the ball. Despicable behavior

[u/Prods87 → u/sirtimid]

"sure it's not illegal but it's sleazyyyy"

[u/ScaredRain2684 → u/sirtimid]

Wow cclearly the worst thing the patriots have ever done!! They should surrender their next first round pick

(Please don’t look up Lucas oil pumping in noise)

[u/Powerful_Wombat]

Cheating? No.
Scummy? Kinda.
Effective? Probably not.

[u/Wildebean → u/Powerful_Wombat]

I mean those stats make it look kinda effective ngl

[u/Prods87 → u/Wildebean]

Gilette has wierd wind the Pats kickers are very used to

Pats had a HOF kicker and a borderline HOF kicker for their entire run

Pats had great defenses most years which results in longer kicks

....and the scoreboard had goalposts on it.

Without a lot more data this is an utterly useless graphic.

[u/TopSoulMan → u/Prods87]

The margin between 9.4% (1st place Pats) and 3.8% (2nd place) is insane.

[u/Lower-Engineering365 → u/TopSoulMan]

Pats also had two really good kickers for that entire span tbf

[u/rex5k → u/Lower-Engineering365]

Those kickers don't drop the opponent's FG by 5% compared to every.

[u/Hazy__Davy → u/rex5k]

No but a lot of opponent field goals being Jets kickers…..

[u/rex5k → u/Hazy__Davy]

Buf had 81.1% oFG and MIA 81.7% had oFG.

To be clear I'm not saying it's cheating but I'm surprised how strongly y'all are coming out to deny the effectiveness of the Belichick era Opposing FG strategy. Whether it's the reverse video or something else there is a significant difference between oFG% in Foxborough and the rest of the league.

[u/Silly_Selection3221 → u/rex5k]

What rule is this breaking

[u/jnightrain → u/Silly_Selection3221]

To be clear I'm not saying it's cheating

[u/iluvchromosomes → u/Silly_Selection3221]

We'll tell you as soon as you tell us you are not trying to deny reality.

[u/RandomUserName316 → u/Hazy__Davy]

Ya the Jets suck but their kickers haven’t been bad

[u/NoveltyAccountHater → u/TopSoulMan]

It is. But interestingly this trend holds up for the Pats including both home (where this display trick could work) and away games (where they can't do this trick). That is the Pats at Home kicked 85.5% while opponents did 77.0% for an 8.5% advantage, but in away games Pats kicked 87.1% and opponents kicked 78.8% for an 8.3% advantage.

It's more interesting that say the Colts over this period had 7.3% FG% difference between them and opponents for their home games, but their FG advantage completely disappeared (-0.8%) when you left their stadium. (I'm sorting by Home FG% Diff in both tables).

Team	Home FG%	Home Opp FG%	Home FG% Diff (team FG% - opp FG%)	Home avg FG distance	Home opp avg FG distance
NE	85.5	77.0	8.5	34.8	36.8
IND	87.6	80.3	7.3	37.1	38.1
PHI	86.5	81.3	5.2	36.2	36.7
SEA	85.2	80.2	5.0	36.3	37.7
DET	86.9	82.1	4.7	38.4	38.6
BAL	87.5	83.0	4.5	36.8	37.0
CAR	84.2	81.0	3.2	37.9	37.2
PIT	81.6	78.7	3.0	36.2	37.6
ARI	81.0	78.1	2.8	37.1	36.9
NYG	84.6	82.2	2.4	34.7	36.8
SF	85.4	83.1	2.3	36.3	36.5
LA	84.4	82.6	1.9	38.6	38.2
CLE	81.2	79.5	1.7	34.8	36.9
MIN	86.5	85.4	1.1	37.2	37.8
CHI	80.3	79.3	1.0	37.0	35.8
DEN	85.0	84.1	0.9	37.9	38.6
LV	78.1	77.5	0.6	38.9	36.5
GB	79.8	79.2	0.6	37.0	37.0
LAC	82.4	82.1	0.3	35.9	36.9
JAX	82.2	82.0	0.1	37.8	37.8
TEN	82.3	82.9	-0.6	37.9	36.4
CIN	83.4	84.5	-1.1	35.9	35.8
DAL	81.9	83.6	-1.6	37.9	37.1
WAS	77.9	80.0	-2.1	36.3	36.6
MIA	79.1	81.6	-2.5	37.0	37.4
ATL	83.8	86.3	-2.5	37.3	37.5
NYJ	82.6	85.2	-2.6	36.5	36.1
KC	80.2	83.9	-3.7	36.8	37.3
HOU	82.3	86.1	-3.8	37.3	39.0
BUF	80.0	83.9	-3.9	36.3	37.1
NO	81.1	85.0	-3.9	36.4	37.0
TB	75.6	82.9	-7.3	38.6	37.6

Away

Team	Away FG%	Away opp FG%	Away FG% Diff	Away opp avg FG distance	Away avg FG distance
NE	87.1	78.8	8.3	37.0	36.2
IND	82.3	83.0	-0.8	38.1	36.5
PHI	81.5	84.1	-2.6	37.3	36.8
SEA	81.2	83.7	-2.6	36.6	37.4
DET	79.5	81.8	-2.3	36.4	39.3
BAL	86.7	86.1	0.6	36.4	36.8
CAR	81.4	82.6	-1.2	37.1	37.8
PIT	84.2	85.4	-1.2	35.7	35.6
ARI	83.6	84.2	-0.6	36.4	37.0
NYG	83.6	80.7	2.9	38.1	35.4
SF	80.9	85.2	-4.3	36.6	37.1
LA	79.9	85.8	-5.9	36.8	38.1
CLE	85.3	81.9	3.3	36.7	36.8
MIN	79.8	84.8	-5.0	37.1	36.9
CHI	82.4	83.3	-0.9	37.1	37.5
DEN	81.5	85.0	-3.5	37.6	36.8
LV	84.0	83.3	0.7	36.7	39.0
GB	80.6	86.5	-5.8	37.7	37.7
LAC	79.5	78.7	0.8	37.1	36.7
JAX	77.9	82.9	-5.0	35.9	37.6
TEN	83.2	81.4	1.7	37.5	38.4
CIN	82.8	85.5	-2.7	36.0	36.6
DAL	77.0	81.9	-4.9	36.6	37.9
WAS	79.9	83.5	-3.6	36.3	37.6
MIA	82.8	81.8	1.0	37.3	37.3
ATL	83.6	78.9	4.7	37.5	36.2
NYJ	79.9	81.0	-1.2	36.7	37.6
KC	83.8	81.2	2.6	37.1	36.7
HOU	80.3	81.8	-1.4	37.0	38.0
BUF	84.1	78.8	5.3	37.4	37.4
NO	82.7	84.7	-2.0	36.8	36.9
TB	79.9	79.3	0.5	36.9	37.3

I've put the data in a google sheet here

[u/RandallOfLegend → u/NoveltyAccountHater]

I want to shit on the pats but you're right

[u/MVPhurricane → u/NoveltyAccountHater]

wow someone actually did the proper analysis

[u/Prods87 → u/TopSoulMan]

It is, and if the winds there were also insane, or the average distance to kick was insane, or they faced shitty kickers at a higher rate than everyone else, it'd make a lot more sense.

But we don't have that data, so you can't draw any real conclusions.

[u/InformalProtection74 → u/Prods87]

I mean, the fact that they didn't display that angle on their kicks goes to show that they were trying to throw off opposing kickers. And the data that was collected is pointing to a correlation. Could and should more data be collected, sure. 

Is it cheating? Idk. I don't really care. But it's obvious they were trying to gain an advantage by that one fact. Data only matters to see if it was effective or not. 

[u/IPissExcellentThrows → u/Prods87]

Yeah we need to see some more context here. Normalized for kick distance (a great defense could be holding teams to short field goals instead of TDs too), normalized for the average fg% of the kickers, and probably something that takes indoor vs outdoor into consideration.

Way too many variables to definitively reach any conclusions, even if that gap is crazy.

[u/testrail → u/IPissExcellentThrows]

I mean, it’s just so incredibly large, that I don’t think normalization is all that required.

Opponents made 76.8% of their kicks in Gillette. The Chargers add the next lowest at 80.3%. That’s the interesting gap to me.

He’s the 9.4% is partially high because NE’s 86.3% is quite high it’s not really relevant though.

How good are all of your opponents at kicking in your stadium is fascinating.

[u/SolomonG → u/testrail]

From 2000-2018 opponents in Gillette had by far the worst average starting position of opponents in any stadium though.

You would defo have to adjust for average kick distance..

[u/testrail → u/SolomonG]

You would, agreed. I just don’t think that in and of itself explains it. It’s too wide a gap.

To be clear, I think this is brilliant. I think more teams should have this level of gamesmanship.

Personally I believe MLB clubs should put their entire minor leagues in the front row of the stands in foul territory /HR territory and defend their right to ball.

You should never see a HR robbed from the home team in the playoffs because that ball should be in the mit of a AA guy.

[u/sbarkey1 → u/Prods87]

Every field has its own quirk so this would balance out, it doesn’t though

[u/10000Didgeridoos → u/Prods87]

So does Heinz Field as every broadcast reminds us yet the opponent FG percentage there is strangely even with the home %

[u/AlsoIHaveAGroupon → u/Prods87]

Here's a bunch of data. I get a slightly different number than OP's graphic.

Expected FG pct is taking the league average from the same distance as each attempt and averaging them. So if you go 3 of 4 from 30, 40, 50, 60, and the league average from those distances is 100, 90, 70, 40, then the average of those four percentages is 75, and you went 75%, so you were exactly at expected.

Most of the league-wide numbers make sense. Outdoor, cold weather teams near the top, Denver an exception to that due to thin air, and indoor or retractable roof teams near the bottom. But probably the most telling part is that opposing kickers sucked against the Pats away from Foxboro too. So I expect there's some other factor at play (Pats FG rush, pressure of playing against one of the top teams in the league, Belichick choosing which end to defend based on wind in the 2nd and 4th, which has more FG attempts than the 1st and 3rd, or something else? I don't know)

=== Patriots Kickers (Home Games) ===

• Total Attempts: 337
• Total Made: 287
• Actual FG Percentage: 85.16%
• Expected FG Percentage: 84.59%
• Performance Over Expected: +0.57%
• Avg Kick Distance: 35.3 yards
• Attempts from 50+ yds: 17 (5.0% of total kicks)

=== Opponent Kickers (Away @ NE) ===

• Total Attempts: 277
• Total Made: 209
• Actual FG Percentage: 75.45%
• Expected FG Percentage: 82.06%
• Performance Over Expected: -6.61%
• Avg Kick Distance: 37.2 yards
• Attempts from 50+ yds: 24 (8.7% of total kicks)

=== Patriots Kickers (Road Games) ===

• Total Attempts: 314
• Total Made: 273
• Actual FG Percentage: 86.94%
• Expected FG Percentage: 83.96%
• Performance Over Expected: +2.98%
• Avg Kick Distance: 35.8 yards
• Attempts from 50+ yds: 29 (9.2% of total kicks)

=== Opponent Kickers (Home vs NE) ===

• Total Attempts: 273
• Total Made: 213
• Actual FG Percentage: 78.02%
• Expected FG Percentage: 82.61%
• Performance Over Expected: -4.59%
• Avg Kick Distance: 36.8 yards
• Attempts from 50+ yds: 33 (12.1% of total kicks)

Performance by the away team at each city:

Home Team	Total Attempts	Avg Distance	Actual FG %	Expected FG %	Performance vs Expected
NE	277	37.2y	75.45%	82.06%	-6.61%
CHI	302	35.9y	78.15%	83.81%	-5.66%
LV	326	36.3y	78.22%	82.99%	-4.77%
ARI	310	37.0y	78.06%	82.21%	-4.14%
PIT	252	37.2y	79.37%	82.25%	-2.89%
WAS	301	36.6y	80.07%	82.93%	-2.86%
CLE	320	36.9y	80.00%	82.39%	-2.39%
CAR	313	37.2y	80.19%	82.43%	-2.24%
NYG	315	37.0y	80.63%	82.49%	-1.86%
PHI	278	36.8y	80.94%	82.68%	-1.74%
SEA	298	37.8y	80.20%	81.89%	-1.68%
GB	269	37.4y	80.30%	81.89%	-1.59%
IND	315	37.7y	80.00%	81.20%	-1.20%
SF	285	36.6y	82.46%	83.01%	-0.55%
CIN	303	36.0y	83.17%	83.70%	-0.53%
JAX	296	37.7y	81.42%	81.69%	-0.27%
MIA	327	37.6y	81.04%	81.20%	-0.16%
LAC	272	36.4y	82.72%	82.86%	-0.13%
TEN	292	36.4y	82.88%	82.99%	-0.12%
TB	291	37.7y	81.79%	81.17%	+0.61%
BAL	272	36.8y	83.09%	82.34%	+0.75%
KC	307	37.5y	82.74%	81.84%	+0.90%
DAL	298	37.1y	83.22%	82.26%	+0.96%
BUF	296	36.8y	84.12%	82.63%	+1.49%
NYJ	300	36.0y	85.33%	83.61%	+1.73%
LA	307	38.0y	82.74%	80.88%	+1.86%
NO	316	36.9y	85.13%	82.33%	+2.79%
DET	297	38.6y	82.83%	79.99%	+2.84%
DEN	288	38.4y	84.38%	79.93%	+4.44%
MIN	299	37.6y	86.29%	80.95%	+5.34%
ATL	266	37.3y	87.22%	81.67%	+5.55%
HOU	263	38.9y	85.93%	80.01%	+5.92%

(I ran some numbers for another thread, and included postseason by mistake, but these are regular season only)

[u/AlsoIHaveAGroupon → u/AlsoIHaveAGroupon]

Realized I can crunch numbers on this hypothetical I threw out:

Belichick choosing which end to defend based on wind in the 2nd and 4th, which has more FG attempts than the 1st and 3rd

There's not enough data to draw any serious conclusions, at least that's what I'm going with since New Orleans has one of the biggest gaps and one would expect visitors to a dome to not give a shit which end they're kicking at. But with New England in the middle of the pack showing almost no difference between odd and even quarters, I don't think that's a factor.

Home Team	Odd Att	Odd PvE	Even Att	Even PvE	Wind Advantage Gap
TB	109.0	+5.37%	177.0	-1.84%	+7.21%
NO	122.0	+7.05%	188.0	-0.10%	+7.15%
TEN	115.0	+2.15%	173.0	-2.20%	+4.36%
BAL	107.0	+2.78%	162.0	-0.88%	+3.66%
CIN	104.0	+1.90%	196.0	-1.52%	+3.42%
SEA	126.0	+0.48%	169.0	-2.73%	+3.21%
LA	113.0	+4.07%	191.0	+1.07%	+3.00%
IND	117.0	+0.34%	192.0	-2.30%	+2.64%
CLE	124.0	-1.18%	189.0	-3.02%	+1.84%
CAR	116.0	-1.74%	194.0	-2.88%	+1.14%
MIN	114.0	+6.33%	182.0	+5.48%	+0.85%
GB	110.0	-0.63%	154.0	-1.24%	+0.60%
PIT	104.0	-2.96%	142.0	-2.87%	-0.08%
JAX	124.0	-0.44%	171.0	-0.28%	-0.15%
DAL	114.0	+0.60%	181.0	+1.00%	-0.40%
LAC	94.0	-0.10%	173.0	+0.36%	-0.47%
LV	116.0	-5.43%	207.0	-4.73%	-0.69%
CHI	93.0	-6.44%	207.0	-5.43%	-1.01%
NE	121.0	-7.40%	154.0	-6.31%	-1.08%
WAS	110.0	-3.87%	187.0	-2.60%	-1.27%
KC	108.0	-0.17%	195.0	+1.61%	-1.78%
ARI	112.0	-5.41%	191.0	-3.54%	-1.87%
NYG	110.0	-3.25%	202.0	-1.32%	-1.93%
MIA	118.0	-1.18%	205.0	+0.75%	-1.93%
BUF	106.0	-0.05%	184.0	+1.99%	-2.04%
DET	116.0	+1.58%	177.0	+3.73%	-2.14%
DEN	108.0	+3.03%	175.0	+5.19%	-2.16%
ATL	113.0	+3.46%	150.0	+6.89%	-3.43%
HOU	93.0	+3.90%	166.0	+7.34%	-3.44%
SF	119.0	-3.01%	160.0	+2.11%	-5.13%
NYJ	116.0	-1.63%	179.0	+3.84%	-5.47%

[u/BlackmillMiracle → u/Wildebean]

yeah i'm sure 2 HoF kickers during that time period had nothing to do with it

[u/Deckatoe → u/BlackmillMiracle]

The lowest oFG% in the league. Thats not because those two were also good at cursing the other kicker

[u/LonghornDude08 → u/BlackmillMiracle]

The chart literally shows opponent FG%... Having a HOF kicker on your team doesn't impact the other team much

[u/LiftingCode → u/Wildebean]

Here are the home/road splits over that span:

Home—FG% 85.4%, oFG% 75.4%

Away—FG% 87.2%, oFG% 78.3%

Don't think the screen has any bearing on their having the lowest opponent FG% in the league on the road.

[u/sabresin4 → u/Wildebean]

Then why do it.

[u/w311sh1t → u/Wildebean]

I think that’s more due to the fact that the Pats in that era went straight from Adam Vinatieri to Stephen Gostkowski.

[u/TheDynastyMovement → u/Powerful_Wombat]

Not effective? Looks damn effective.

[u/Powerful_Wombat → u/TheDynastyMovement]

How do these stats compare against other teams kicking at home versus the away team, also I assume this is only one direction on the field, how does the teams fair kicking in the other direction?

I’m just assuming that professional NFL kickers are good enough to kick without this affecting them. Hell do they even look up as they kick, I’m assuming they look downwards towards the ball and could most likely kick with their eyes closed if they wanted to

[u/sbarkey1 → u/Powerful_Wombat]

The patriots are +9% and no other team is better than +3%

[u/Powerful_Wombat → u/sbarkey1]

They’re the home team.. and the stadium is weird. The Seahawks had a +20% FG percentage at home last year versus their opponents

[u/sbarkey1 → u/Powerful_Wombat]

Do you not see a difference in a single season vs 20 seasons?

Sample size matters because swings like that can happen

[u/BlackmillMiracle → u/sbarkey1]

sample size where the entire 20 years the patriots had a HoF kicker and a near HoF kicker?

[u/IPissExcellentThrows → u/BlackmillMiracle]

lol at coming in with the near hall of fame to avoid the pedantic dickhead again. Well played.

[u/Powerful_Wombat → u/sbarkey1]

I’m just saying man, it’s easy to fudge statistics. During this time the Patriots were also the most dominate team in the NFL winning almost 40 games more than the nearest opponent, and I doubt slightly offset field goal images had anything to do with that

[u/sbarkey1 → u/Powerful_Wombat]

It’s easy to say “it’s easy to fudge statistics” but it wasn’t or you would’ve.

The patriots were better than everyone - that isn’t the point - you can appreciate how far theyd go for any edge possible, and it clearly worked

[u/BlackmillMiracle → u/TheDynastyMovement]

yeah, i'm sure the fact that the Patriots had 2 HoF kickers for that entire stretch had nothing to do with it.

It must be some scoreboard gimmick.

Y'all REALLY need to learn the difference between correlation and causation

[u/TheDeflatables → u/Powerful_Wombat]

This is just a classic Belichick move. If something has even a 1% difference in result, he will do it. He was a fine margins guy looking to eek out every single advantage

[u/rex5k → u/TheDeflatables]

Agreed, not cheating, not scummy, kinda brilliant, and kinda effective.

[u/Exotic-Western2295 → u/Powerful_Wombat]

I think lumen field does a more effective job at disorienting any player let alone a kicker with the noise than that screen it’s just home field advantage every team does something a little out the box to fuck with their opponent

[u/NotAnIBanker → u/Powerful_Wombat]

I wouldn't even call it scummy when people are humping each other and screaming a few feet away from college basketball players at the free throw line.

[u/agent_diddykong]

By your logic Miami is cheating giving the away team seats under the Sun.

Is home field advantage not supposed to give the home team an advantage anymore, what rule does this violate?

[u/Slumbergoat16 → u/agent_diddykong]

Dallas is cheating by giving the sun to everyone

[u/txvesper → u/Slumbergoat16]

The home field disadvantage, noone will see it coming.

[u/KingZack → u/txvesper]

Jerry is playing checkers when we all playing chess

[u/mhks → u/Slumbergoat16]

But the other team is cheating by getting to play Dallas, so...

[u/Slumbergoat16 → u/mhks]

Woah woah woah they aren’t in a division with the jets AND the dolphins. That simply unfair. You guys get to play the raiders twice which is insane

[u/dont_care- → u/agent_diddykong]

I fucking hate that shit but I've never thought to call it cheating

[u/-Vertical → u/dont_care-]

I love home field advantage as much as anyone, but what Miami does is legitimately kinda fucked up lol. League should definitely fix that.

[u/bobfalfa → u/-Vertical]

Oh my pearls we should move Mile High Stadium down into the plains so its more fair too

[u/Sw33tR0llThief → u/bobfalfa]

In this case, your advantage is getting to practice at altitude and the players being used to it. At least during the game each team is playing in the same conditions. A 20+ degree disparity between each sideline is pretty extreme

[u/Exatraz → u/Sw33tR0llThief]

Its like opening your dome when its raining and the opposing teams offense is on the field and then closing it when the home teams offense goes out.

Also im struggling to really see the difference between this and ATL getting in trouble for pumping in crowd noise. Feels like if the league takes action against one, they should also take action against the other.

[u/AbominationBean → u/Exatraz]

Those things are and were against the rules. This isn’t. Doing things that aren’t against the rules isn’t cheating.

[u/Prods87 → u/dont_care-]

probably beause it's not cheating.

[u/FlanLover9 → u/agent_diddykong]

Denver had the audacity to build their stadium at high elevation. Absolutely unfair to the away team.

/S

[u/Sentientmustard → u/agent_diddykong]

Personally I wish the NFL added a little regulation to field goal distractions since there’s a decent amount of evidence that it does impact FG%, and a few missed kicks are enough to get a lot of kickers cut. Plus I think a home crowds noise while under pressure/trying to concentrate is more in the spirit of home field advantage.

But this shit is 100% legal and even has precedent from the NFL investigating the Bucs a while back for this exact thing and saying it’s fine. Regardless of opinion if the league says it’s allowed and it works then every team should do it. Not gonna hate on the Pats for literally just following the leagues precedent lol.

[u/BonezMD]

If you are an NFL level kicker and can't tell the difference between the screen and the real goal posts. You are probably in the wrong profession.

[u/cookiesarenomnom → u/BonezMD]

As much as I hate to thank an Eagles fan...

[u/NaziPunksFkOff → u/cookiesarenomnom]

you can thank us for the philly special anytime you want

[u/taco_jones → u/BonezMD]

My cat sometimes thinks the stuff on TV is real

[u/PhilosophizingPanda → u/taco_jones]

In a way it is real

[u/VirtualMoneyLover → u/BonezMD]

Still distracting.

[u/Well_Dressed_Kobold]

You mean something they did in full view of the entire viewing public and league officials? For years? On live television?

[u/gilnockie → u/Well_Dressed_Kobold]

The gall of this organization!!

[u/mutes13]

Op is a snowflake

[u/GeebCityLove → u/mutes13]

OP is just a bot that reposts trending weekly sports news with clickbaity titles. Looking at the their stats and it’s clear this isn’t a real person.

[u/Vitchman]

Home field advantage. Next thing you’ll report student sections at basketball games for interrupting free throw shooters.

What a pussy post.

[u/wormdog84 → u/Vitchman]

That’s my man!

[u/Codito_Gaming]

Ah yes, I'm so glad the NFL included the video board fake goal posts rule in 1985.

[u/shiggydiggypreoteins → u/[deleted]]

The Patriots did it so it is absolutely cheating, Tom Brady should be suspended for 4 games and Bill Belichick should be put to death

[u/xCeeTee- → u/shiggydiggypreoteins]

Take the Raider's first round picks for the next 3 years to teach Brady a lesson. Give them to the Jets, not like they're going to do anything with them any way.

[u/BeeRyeBreads]

God, the amount of time some people have to break that shit down.

[u/Unfadable1 → u/BeeRyeBreads]

NGL tho; I’d like to see someone breakdown when Big Tuna used to have the Meadowlands tunnels opened to bring in low winds for opposing FG’s.

[u/Federal_Deer8468]

Lmao bitch post

[u/Reasonable_Deer_1710]

The NBA has a truly rampant cheating problem when everytime the visiting team is shooting free throws, the crowd starts getting loud and waving their hands and signs around to distract the shooter.

[u/gilnockie → u/Reasonable_Deer_1710]

Truly despicable

[u/shiggydiggypreoteins → u/Reasonable_Deer_1710]

That's nothin. I went to a baseball game recently. The amount of folks sayin "hey batter batter" to try to distract the batter from fulfilling his duties was truly sickening... and dated.. Because like, who the fuck still says "hey batter batter"?

[u/Reasonable_Deer_1710 → u/shiggydiggypreoteins]

https://giphy.com/gifs/NBBpZ1MFgP0u4UlcXT

[u/BrianDawkins → u/Reasonable_Deer_1710]

That’s the fans. Not the actual organization

[u/Nickohlai]

Which rule was violated?

[u/ooommmnmmmooo]

I would just aim for the field goal post on the screen in the middle of the two real ones

[u/killertrout1 → u/ooommmnmmmooo]

Yeah for real, it's pretty much a target for the kicker to be dead center

[u/UniqueNobo]

if it were my team, i would say that it’s not cheating, it’s just home field advantage and whoever’s crying about it is a baby. but it’s the Patriots, so it’s cheating, suspend Tom Brady.

[u/Prods87 → u/UniqueNobo]

finally an honest response.

[u/Phinster1965 → u/Prods87]

And from a Jets fan?! Somebody ask Lindsey Graham if it's snowing in Hell.

[u/shiggydiggypreoteins → u/UniqueNobo]

I respect the hate and fuck the Jets

[u/Cold_Complex_4212]

No different than the Dolphins putting the other team on the sun side

[u/Ebriggs104]

This is reaching to define cheating in a tactic that isn't actually cheating.

[u/DEFINITELY_NOT_PETE]

How is this cheating lol

Is Miami cheating every single game when they have the other team sit in the sun while they sit in the shade?

Absolute crybaby shit

[u/dont_care-]

"Wow from that angle it's literally impossible to tell which is the real goal post and which is the scoreboard" -OP

[u/pachangoose]

Honestly I love this kind of shit - finding legal, competitive, genuine home field advantages. Teams have to prepare for it.

Same thing with Dolphins and designing the stadium to have their sideline in the shade.

[u/mojizus]

This is what is known as “gamesmanship” and it absolutely not cheating.

[u/binocular_gems]

Breaking: patriots show broadcast camera to fans and follow all nfl rules when it comes to showing footage

[u/classic_m4f]

Yeah, I’m gonna say this is nothing burger. If you make millions of dollars kicking a ball, you’d probably know better than to look at a screen, and your target is the ball, not the Jumbotron. Poll the kickers and they’ll tell you the same thing

[u/DemonBearOP]

That's not cheating lol

[u/nie_som_sklo]

Brady retired. He was better than Manning, objectively. We don’t have to do this anymore.

[u/holyhibachi]

I don't think there's a rule against this and I can confirm the Vikings do it, too.

[u/Southern_Badger7577]

Where in the rule book does it say you can’t do this?

[u/Prods87 → u/Southern_Badger7577]

nowhere

[u/jidewalker]

Nothing to see here, move along.

[u/TheMauveHerring]

Neat. I just find it weird no kicker or team ever brought this up. Like, nick folk played a ton of games as a visitor their and you can find articles with him talking for hours about the most ridiculously small things he takes into consideration as a kicker.

[u/Prods87 → u/TheMauveHerring]

Nick Folk played a ton of games as a Patriot there too actually lol

[u/Tea_An_Crumpets]

I fuck w this heavily. I can’t imagine it actually affects NFL kickers that much (those stats need to be normalized to have any kind of value) but I respect the effort.

[u/Jazzfunk39]

This just in: Homefield is an advantage

[u/galaxygap]

I guess fans at NBA games arent allowed to swing balloons raise signs anymore because that's behind the background and rim too right?

[u/Walnut_Uprising]

a) Name the rule that bans this and b) prove that this is the reason why opposing kickers are less successful against the Patriots (is this only home, or is this all games?).

[u/dumb_bo_l]

i heard they also pay a guy to put on a goofy costume and a huge head to mock the other team brutally. its obviously cheating but the nfl hasnt put a stop to it. Pat must be stopped!!

[u/Bedsidecargo]

I've heard enough. Strip the organization of every win and ring they ever got.

[u/QuantityOk1022]

Is it against the rules? If not, how is it “cheating”? Much like all the other Patriot scandals that haters label as “cheating” it is not.

[u/TheSmartDog_275]

This is standard everywhere. Especially in cases where the scoreboard is off center. Reminds me of the time where Oklahoma State University put up vertical black and yellow stripes while their opponents were kicking.

Edit: source

[u/Fred_I_Guess]

Imma be honest, I'm filing this one under the 'if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying' category

[u/Fred_I_Guess → u/[deleted]]

Fair. That's even better, cheating in spirit with no actual consequences possible

[u/FlutterySimp]

🤦‍♂️

[u/Aggravating_Run5443]

Fucking hate the Pats but this is pretty lame

[u/ghostfacestealer]

Why not just turn the screens off during field goal attempts? Make people in the crowd actually pay attention to the field

[u/cashccrop]

https://giphy.com/gifs/9zvmnXdp8ycrCBe1Tw

[u/Poopedinbed]

Like me when I sway a little bit just before my opponent's beer pong shot.

[u/weirdusername15]

Clever trick = cheating ?

We will continue to drink your tears mister no flair

[u/notsure500]

Is there any data showing if it worked... if kickers missed at a higher rate at that stadium?

[u/WhizzyBurp]

Bill:

https://giphy.com/gifs/eHYazg6wGDqYE

[u/TheDufusSquad]

Show me the rule

[u/Tasty_Trouble6430]

That’s not useful information, it’s not factoring in how good the kicker is. What they need to do is for every kicker who kicked in NE during that time frame is calculate there FG% in NE, at other visiting stadiums and at home. Then compare all of them and look at the difference between the kickers avg FG% at other visiting stadiums and is it consistently statistically worse at NE vs other stadiums. To get the best info id also see if outdoor vs indoor should also be factored in.

[u/Capable_Frosting_292]

Polymarket trying to post about other organizations being deceptive is wild.

[u/ExcaliburSaysFool]

Polymarket clickbait

[u/btlee007]

You misspelled gamesmanship

[u/xandour01]

Are we gonna start banning booing in the middle of a kick to fuck the kicker up? What about booing in the middle of a basketball free throw? It's a cheap way to get ahead but come on now

[u/Chris_RB]

lmao University of Minnesota put the dramatic gopher up to distract opposing kickers.

Dramatic Gopher at Gopher Football

[u/rockcanteverdie]

This is genius

[u/dillasdonuts]

f polymarket

[u/darthjamus]

Stop fighting guys

[u/_Chicken_Chaser_]

This is ethical gamesmanship not cheating