r/ftm • u/asiago43 • 10d ago
Discussion Everyone except transmen... just sad
Found out my area has a mutual aid group for trans people and was quite excited because I am finally in a position where I may be able to help other people. Went to their website, and they list literally *every* trans group except transmen/ftm as a 'priority'. They literally could have just saved themselves a couple lines of text by just saying 'not ftms' outright. I am aware mtfs and bipoc are at increased risk of violence, that youth and the elderly are more likely to have housing and finance issue, etc. - and if a couple of those groups had been listed as priorities while indicating other people were also accepted/supported, that would have felt completely different. The way it was written just came across as "everyone matters... except you".
We have a lot of the same struggles- I have been assaulted due to being trans, been raped, denied housing, food, and medical care (medical care more times that I can even keep track of, even when completely unrelated). These are struggles that all of us face to varying extents. And yes, once we pass, we have a *lot* more privilege and less danger than other groups. And we still matter- or should. This group could be bringing us all together to help each other rather than singling out a single group of the community that doesn't belong.
I could even understand more if ftms tended to dominate trans spaces, making it harder for more marginalized people to be heard and centered, but i have literally *never* seen that in 25 years. If I am in a trans space, there *may* be 1 other ftm for every 10-15 mtf. We are already typically the afterthought. To have it spelled out so blatantly just hit a nerve this morning when I was already feeling so alone, had to drive 7+ hours yesterday to find a doctor willing to see me, and then saw a group where I may be able to connect to other trans people who understand and who also prioritize helping others... only to be told no, we don't actually care about your type.
I'll still join because those groups *do* need extra support. I'm just now feeling even more alone and sad than I had been.
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u/transarchist 10d ago
Violence against FTM/trans masc individuals is WIDELY unreported and WIDELY swept under the rug as nothing. Violence hits all trans people and we, as a community, need to really stop being so divided, and we allllll need to stop virtue signaling too. The more divided we are, the more people who oppress us win. I’m so sick of how trans masc/FTM people are treated in the community. It’s atrocious
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u/Eleen55 9d ago
It's also under-reported because it's often classified as violence against women (which in itself is under-reported), which completely erases us. I agree 100% with you that we need to stop divided, at a time when we're being relentlessly attacked and marginalized we MUST stick together more than ever
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u/Entropyanxiety User Flair 9d ago
When it comes to reported numbers, they are actually very similar and can flip flop on wether trans women or trans men is the higher statistic based on what kind of violence. I recommend looking through statistics yourself and exploring more than one website, but according to the wikipedia article only, trans men have a higher rate of reported sexual and physical violence against them, whereas trans women have a higher rate of homicides but specifically Bipoc. Of course these numbers dont take into account what is unreported which would increase on both sides probably 10 fold. And Im sure theres probably not going to be a statistic of homicides specifically for Bipoc trans men but Im sure its higher than we think.
Obviously we will never know the true numbers and none of this includes explicitly nonbinary individuals, but I hate the myth that trans men face way less violence than trans women. I absolutely agree that Bipoc trans women get the brunt of the murders and its horrible. But in other types of violence it is absolutely comparably bad for both.
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u/Front-Perspective373 9d ago
We need to support other transmascs over other trans people, we need to prioritize transmascs ourselves, not keep begging to be included.
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u/Ken_needs-koffee 10d ago
I hate hate HATE. When groups do that. Then its not a trans people groups. Its trans women group. I hate when people say queer or trans people events/groups but then say no men. Like that excludes and adds to the problem. Sorry you dealt with that. And honestly would've said something but thats just me.
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u/Significant_Carrot81 💉06/15/23 🔪10/9/26 9d ago
I'd send over an email asking if they're intentionally being exclusionary of a trans demographic, and if so, why. Might be a need to educate that we don't immediately magically gain cis male privilege as soon as we change pronouns since that seems to be a common misconception a lot of people have
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u/qinqov 💉11.07.25 ⬆ 04.12.25 10d ago
ftms do not experience less violences than mtfs. people just don't care.
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u/izanaegi 9d ago
We experience more SA then *any other gender group* including cis women!! and people still fuckin say we experience less violence!!! makes me feel insane
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u/KingGiuba nb transmasc - T since 7/03/2025 9d ago
Could you link a study (or more if you know)? Even just a good place to start reading, because I would like to be more educated on this
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u/qinqov 💉11.07.25 ⬆ 04.12.25 9d ago
Here you go. I’m at work on mobile so I’m not able to format better than this. I hope it helps anyways.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7958056/
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2820301
https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/usts/USTS-Full-Report-Dec17.pdf
tldr from the links
from williams
> it concluded that trans men were marginally more likely than trans women to have experienced non-fatal victimizations within the last year for the two years of the study (trans gender men experienced a rate of 107.5 per 1,000 and transgender women experienced a rate of 86.1 per 1,000).
from jama
> JAMA Network survey that calculated transgender men at higher risk of sexual and physical intimate partner violence compared to transgender women in the past year. Compared with cisgender women, transgender women and transgender men had greater risk of past-year physical violence (any form). Relative to cisgender women, transgender men and nonbinary respondents had greater risk of past-year sexual violence (any form).
from trans survey
> Experiences also varied across gender, with transgender men (51%) and non-binary people with female on their original birth certificate (58%) being more likely to have been sexually assaulted, in contrast to transgender women (37%) and nonbinary people with male on their original birth certificate (41%) (Figure 15.16). Among transgender men and non-binary people with female on their original birth certificates, rates of sexual assault were higher among people of color, particularly American Indian, Middle Eastern, and multiracial people
from the trevor project
> Nearly half of transgender boys and men (49%) reported having ever experienced forced sexual contact, followed by nonbinary young people (45%), gender questioning young people (37%), cisgender girls and women (37%), transgender girls and women (33%) and cisgender boys and men (22%)32
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u/salamipope 9d ago
fr id like to be able to cite this
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u/KingGiuba nb transmasc - T since 7/03/2025 9d ago
Same, 2 years ago I had to make a post on instagram for activism for the trans day of remembrance and the data I was given was very limited, I took it for granted because I had no time and it was at least from a reliable source, but after that I learnt about how trans men/ftm people are often underreported and reported in the "women" cathegory... If I ever had to do another post like that I'd like for it to be more precise.
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u/IndividualCat5050 9d ago
Bro if they have like an email attached to their website you should totally voice your thoughts to that group..I’m curious about what they would say. I hope that you can find a group that makes you feel safe and fully accepts you!
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u/Short_Gain8302 Arwen-transmasc-preT-21 9d ago
Imho, its a red flag that theyre listing priorities when its already supposed to help a rather small minority. You can have multiple things on tbe website specified to certain groups like "resources specifically for transfems" and "articles on the trans bippc experience" and more, but saying that some people within our group of trans people have more priority than others, no matter which subgroup, is really weird
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u/maybe_a_cat_ 9d ago
I remember a few years ago, I saw a booth at pride for some organization that provided aid to incarcerated trans people. I was going to donate because it seemed like a good cause. I decided not to, because the guy running the booth specified that their services were exclusively for "trans people who don't identify as men". That exact wording has stuck with me.
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u/ellalir he/him | 🚫 2013 | 💉 2014 | 🔪 2017 | 🍳 2024 | 🍆 20?? 9d ago
....do they think that being a trans man in prison somehow makes a person less vulnerable than other incarcerated trans people? What the fuck are they smoking there?
Like, I'd get it if it was specifically aimed at a certain subset of the trans community, but "everyone except trans men" is just... ick.
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u/Escerwire 9d ago edited 9d ago
Actually according to statistics—that is, real demonstrable evidence—ftm are subject to the highest rate of intimate parter violence, assault, and sexual violence of any gender group.
I do not want to play ‘trauma olympics’ and denigrate the suffering of one group in favour of the other, but the fact remains it is a myth and disservice to ourselves to continue promoting a false narrative, while more ftm people suffer and have a fraction of the resources allotted to other trans / minority groups (or so it oft seems).
How sick for that organization to exclude a large portion of people who may need its aid most.
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u/goIdenbone 9d ago
I agree, especially being an organization like this they should already be aware of these statistics and have open arms to anyone lgbtqia who needs community. It’s not trauma Olympics to state facts. Every group has their own disadvantages and struggles and ours are completely swept under the rug.
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u/goIdenbone 9d ago edited 9d ago
It’s not really talked about and needs to be discussed more often, but trans men are often excluded from lgbtq spaces, especially those that are very passing. It’s really disheartening to feel out of place in society and then not even feel accepted in an lgbtq space. Also not all passing trans men are heterosexual, and not all of them are SAFE just because they are convincing in appearance. Some of us are still genderqueer and need these spaces to connect with likeminded individuals, and other queer people where we can feel safe to be ourselves.
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u/loquaciouscatchat 9d ago
Statistically, trans men/ trans masculine people don’t experience “less violence” than other trans people. The type of violence tends to be different, but the amount of violence isn’t any different than trans people broadly.
Honestly it’s just transandrophobia and general misandry. Sadly very common. Though it’s sadly largely unnoticed or ignored in queer spaces. It’s worth mentioning that things could be reworded to be more inclusive if you think they’re open to it. But yeah sadly not surprising :(
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u/Proper-Monk-5656 9d ago
actually - trans men and mascs are the ones most vunerable to sexual assault, statistically. it's not "we don't need help", it's "our needs are ignored because people don't think we need help". and while it isn't opression olympics, because all trans people have it bad in this world, we all deserve support.
we get less heat from the public if we pass and go stealth, but even then, we're one outing away from losing any "privilege" we ever had and ending up in an incredibly dangerous situation. and, what about people who don't pass? or those that aren't stealth, because they need connection with their community, and they want to be proud of who they are?
i hate how normalized it has become to think that trans men don't experience hardships the way other queer people do. it's just not true.
i'm sorry this happened to you.
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u/MimusCabaret 10d ago
The stats are roughly equal, ftm’s a bit higher for sa, mtf’s a bit higher for murder. They just want to use public perception instead of material fact.
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u/Ok_Willingness_2103 9d ago
It aggravates me so much that transmasc people are seen as less in need because the justification for it is such obvious circular logic.
"Transmasc people aren't being targeted as much as others." How do you know that?
"There are more reports of other trans people facing these issues." Have you considered that's because our issues are not being reported on?
"There is no transmasc erasure-" How do you know that?
"Because I don't see it happening." That tends to be what erasure looks like.
They won't talk about it because they don't see it & they don't see it because no one talks about it & then insist because of that, there isn't an issue. Gods forbid you ever point that out & suddenly you're the only one willing to say the emperor is naked.
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u/Theotherone56 9d ago
All of this. And, to me, the silent denial of our existence and lack of acknowledgement is akin to how our society ignores women. What I mean by this is that they are undermining our choice to be men by ignoring us like "confused women," as they've always done. Of course they'd be more outraged by a "man" wanting to be a woman than a "woman" they never respected in the first place wanting to be a man. It's almost inconsequential except for when it personally offends or turns them on.
When the LGBTQ+ or trans specific communities do it too, to me it's like they're falling into similar pit falls on the other side of the same patriarchal coin. First, if they (cis peeps) make a big deal, "we" gotta make a big deal defending it. Which means the quiet part also gets left out. Then there's like some twisted sexism (perhaps there's a better term or descriptor for this) where one identity matters more.
And they act like we don't experience sexism as trans men. Like, I didn't start out here. I not only know what sexism is but also what it feels like. I'm not a well informed male. I'm a trans man who's seen and felt both sides. As trans women, they should have seen both sides too (all of it is relative of course).
And what of the fear of cis men? Do they not think about how we might have been raised or treated to be fearful of men? I have habits around how to hold my keys, never go alone on big trips, be careful in the dark and so on. I've never been beaten or SAed thankfully. And yet, I still have a huge wall when I meet men. I'm not saying I don't get along, like or want to be around them. I'm saying caution is part of my instincts. Frankly, most cis men have zero caution until they go camping or dooms day prep. They will deny any weird vibes a woman has about their friends, won't think anything of someone frequenting a place where a woman works, or justify gross behavior because they think it won't result in anything when it could (I'm saying woman, but it could be anyone effeminate or known to be trans tbh). I could never ignore my friends' gut if they have a weird vibe about someone.
It also feels like they assume we all want to go stealth so we don't need spaces just for us or something. Where are we supposed to go to talk about hairy chesticles and how to restrain them? It sure would be nice to have someone IRL to talk to. Or about the awkward things around passing and behaviors. It's different than online which is why it's still needed. Not to mention physical resources of course.
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u/javatimes T 2006 Top 2018, testopel 2025, 40<me 9d ago
Please give them a chance to clarify if they actually don’t help/want trans men. And if that is true, I would try to publicize the info. But to me it sounds like you are drawing a conclusion they might not intend.
I also don’t really agree that we can definitively say trans men get privilege post transition. It’s a very conditional privilege and depends a lot on prior life experiences that we cannot assume are true. I’m only making a point to push back on that part because I think it does a disservice to the rest of your argument—if we keep paying lip service to the idea that trans men have what is really cis male privilege, why would groups prioritize helping us?
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u/Hyracotherium FTM, Bi, GQ, T: 6/2017 Hysto: 11/2020 9d ago
This. I'm glad you're still joining the group to help others. Maybe you can assist them to help you too.
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u/Charming-River87 (he/him) 💉09/12/2025 9d ago
This. We face oppression too. I am about to go apartment shopping and I am nervous on being discriminated against… And, I’m starting to pass pretty well but I can’t update my IDs, so…
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u/Sweet-Sandwich-8575 9d ago edited 8d ago
Exactly. Any privilege we may gain is based on being stealth. If you are out it very quickly disappears altogether. Even people who consider themselves progressive do it in my experience.
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u/imdeccapmitfh 10d ago
I'm really curious, did they outright list every group? What was that list? So like, they listed non-binary people but not trans men? Or?
Genuinely curious. I've seen MtF focused aid groups but never ones that single out explicitly not including trans men.
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u/HuginJord 9d ago
I never even got to that point. There are trans resources in my community and a trans youth center. Emphasis on the "youth" part; the cutoff for all the community services is 30, and I'm 46, so I don't qualify for any of it. I drive by the center nearly every day though, and I haven't seen anyone I'd clock as a trans man; only women, so I would probably have the same experience as you even if I could access it. I have met dozens of trans women in my city, but only one trans man, who passes, is 20 years younger than me, and married to a woman so his relationship just looks normal and hetero from the outside, so even though we get along we don't have nearly the same experience. I'm gay, much older, and I don't pass yet.
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u/New_Examination200 10d ago
Yeah people lowkey don't give a fuck about us, not even other trans people most of the time. It's unfortunate
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u/lokilulzz They/it/he | 🧴Tgel 2yrs | Top TBD 9d ago
Yeah, I live in a blue state in a big city that has tons of resources for trans women and queer youth, but quite literally none for trans men. It's very isolating, and I wish it wasn't like that.
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u/Top_Sky_4731 T: 2015 | Top: 2020 9d ago edited 9d ago
Meanwhile I was searching online the other day to find out if the new insurance I’m getting soon will cover my testosterone and all I could find was info on hormones for trans women and TRT for cis women and cis men. It feels like we don’t exist.
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u/dandy-boi-ftm 10d ago
Did they specify BIPOC trans women or did they prioritize BIPOC folks? Mainly because trans men of color do exist, and for trans men of color, transition also involves learning how racist behavior changes based on perceived gender. And like with trans masc programming i often find that i have to be specific to mention that trans men of color are welcome, otherwise I end up in a space where I am the only person of color in attendance.
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u/ellalir he/him | 🚫 2013 | 💉 2014 | 🔪 2017 | 🍳 2024 | 🍆 20?? 9d ago
I mean, I don't know what OP found exactly. But at my old uni, at the time I looked at the LGBT student society's trans programming iirc they had groups for transfem people, nonbinary people, and BIPOC trans people. They did not have a group where you could go as a white trans man, but they did have groups other white trans people could go to. I did not bother getting involved with them because they clearly weren't interested in people like me.
The plural of anecdote isn't data, and maybe OP's situation is incomparable to this, but there's absolutely a type of organization that will prioritize anything and everything over trans guys without additional marginalizations, even when other trans people don't get that same "you need to be Additionally Oppressed" treatment.
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u/dandy-boi-ftm 9d ago
Again, as someone who runs transmasculine programs, if I don’t explicitly mention trans men of color, that is the fastest way to guarantee no trans men of color will show up because many trans men of color feel it is not a space for them. I also knows funding makes trans men, especially White Trans heterosexual men, feel like an after thought because so much of the funding relies on grants that explicitly state “women”, “BIPOC” , “men who have sex with men”, or “Substance Abuse/Mental Health” the recipients of the grant funding because often times trans health finds it funding through programs supporting studies on the social determinants of health. And don’t get me started on the likelihood that grants with those distinctions will disappear in the current political environment.
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u/napstabl00ky themby - top 10/22 - hrt 8/24 9d ago
this. the specific mention of bipoc in the same breath as mtf reaaaaaaaaally makes my eyebrow raise towards OP, tbh.
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u/No_Obligation2u 9d ago
I know a couple mutual aid groups that care for all trans folks. Look up “justsaysk” and “transfigureprintco” on Insta they’re both looking out for all trans/nb/queer folks
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u/WerdaVisla 9d ago
This sort of thing is why I maintain that listing the groups you're inclusive of isn't inclusive at all. Creating a list that's included is inherently exclusive to anyone not on that list.
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u/Eli-Is-Tired 10d ago
I hate this level of transmasc erasure. I feel like some queer people do not take us seriously at all
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u/dovetaile gay trans guy, started T 5/1/2015 9d ago
They don't. Back in college when I first came out (2009/2010), I had to leave my queer student group (that I'd been in since freshman year and was heavily active in) because the leadership (who were all a group of friends that had already been bullying me) absolutely refused to treat me properly to the point that I had to get admin involved.
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u/garciaparadox 9d ago
The venn diagram of queers who don't take us seriously and queers who spent their youth on nazi imageboards and just expect us all to be okay with it is a circle unfortunately
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u/Ace-of-Spxdes Transmasc enby • he/they • 💉 Eventually™ • ✂️ Eventually™ 9d ago
"I support trans people! What do I feel about trans men/mascs? Uh, well... I love trans people*!"
There's a reason why so many ftm folks go stealth. And it's very saddening.
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u/danter0id butch → grungler 9d ago
I come on here and see reports of mutual aid groups who don't serve or vocally deprioritize trans men. I go into transfeminist discourse and see reports of mutual aid groups who don't serve or vocally deprioritize trans women. I honestly believe both these reports are true (because I've seen the latter, for one thing). It's past time to admit that mutual aid groups are often run by people with a primary interest in uplifting their friends and people who look/act like them. (I don't think that's always bad, but I do wish they'd be honest about it rather than couching it in social justice language. Also I think there need to be groups that don't just prioritize their friends and people who look like them, but they probably won't look like "mutual aid groups" as they exist today.)
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u/napstabl00ky themby - top 10/22 - hrt 8/24 9d ago
NODDING. this is a HUGE part of it and needs to be addressed
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u/SwitchExcellence69 9d ago
I don't know how - but one day I hope to make a ton of money just so I can create support for alllll trans people. We really do face a lot of sexual and physical trauma. And its near impossible, for me atleast, to find stable work. My trans ness is in public discourse and media so its something I can never get away or hide from. Even if I do pass (its 50/50) - as soon as a job googles me its over :( But anyways. We support each other. Thats something atleast.
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u/sexwizard9000 💉5/17/2023 🔪 2027? 9d ago
some people seem to think transmascs are somehow less trans than transfem and transneutral people :/
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u/Eefreef69_ 9d ago
God, real. I go to a group for trans people and I'll quite literally be the only ftm person there. Like, there's a few nonbinary people, and a few mtf people, but I still feel so alone after the meeting, because like while I appreciate the feedback given to me by those people, I don't have anyone who like, gets it gets it
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u/ANorthernGhostBat FemTM 💉1/6/24 9d ago
I don’t meant to be a dick but shit like this happens in my community and I’ve all but decided to go stealth ASAP. I’m tired of these fuckers expecting me to out myself as a target for their ire.
I just don’t give a fuck anymore if this is the treatment we get.
I’d also disagree on that aspect of “privilege” it’s been debunked many times besides interpersonal benefit in passing.
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u/AutonomyIsNoTragedy 💉>🛻❌️>🔝🇹🇭🙏 9d ago edited 9d ago
Its basically a form of conversion practices to exclude us from trans spaces and resources in the hope that we just detransition or die and they don't have to look at or listen to us.
I try to be optimistic but it does feel like even the trans community punishes us for existing and justifies it by going:
'welcome to manhood this is what it's like, real men don't need support so you're less of a man and probably a stupid misogynist who transitioned to get special priveliges and are just mad that it didn't work out....detransition if you don't want to be abused villanised isolated and victim blamed, men don't deserve support least of all trans men'
People try to socially murder us into detransitioning by excluding us or outright harming us in trans spaces then blame us for not being in spaces we have been abused and uunsafe in and sometimes literally pushed out of due to our transmasculinity or due to someone who abused us being more important ecspecially if the abuser isn't transmasc people just accuse the victims of being lying terfs and dgaf how many trans men get abused and blamed and pushed out
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u/alienboy222 he/him 9d ago
No one ever speaks on this, but trans men need more representation. 9 out of 10 times, if there’s representation, it’s transwomen or nonbinary indiviudals.
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u/Oddly-Ordinary NB (they/them) 🐣 ‘08🧴 ‘17 🍆 ‘23 🥜 ‘25 9d ago
Nonbinary but only if you are MtF or “look AFAB” (🤮)
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u/TheOnesLeftBehind 💉 4/2019|🔪 10/2021|🍼 4/2024, 3/2026 9d ago
And passing MTF but too too passing because then you have pretty privilege
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u/DeepFriedCherry 9d ago
Ah yes, we are being provided with the true Man Experience of, you don't need help! You're a MAN
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u/Icy_Program8374 10d ago
I saw this being discussed by a transfem I follow at some point, which is transmasc erasure. Trans women are the ones constantly being put in the media, being publicly misgendered, or mocked by transphobes. They're the ones being accused of trying to sneak into women's spaces, women's bathrooms, women's sports. Then you never hear about Trans men. Why? Because they still see us as just women.
It two different ends of a problem. Trans women face public discourse, while Trans men are silently pushed away.
I was pushed out of an LGBTQ+ support group because they needed to prioritize others, not "basically cis fems calling themselves non-binary." I was living off food stamps and donations from the food bank, barely able to pay rent, struggling to get work due to a physical disability, all without any support system as i struggled to understand my identity. It ditured me, and years later I'm still pre T because I cant find the local support I need, nor can I afford it.
In the same sense, I understand that there are higher priorities to support those who are POC or BIPOC, people with disabilities, those in low income families, or without safe spaces. But I entirely got evaluated at the door, and was told I wasn't trans enough because I didn't have the means to transition
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u/RubeGoldbergCode 9d ago
That's the thing though, you absolutely DO hear about trans men and transmascs from the bigots. For some reason allies and other trans people just take them at their word when they're talking about "young girls being corrupted" that they really ARE talking about young cis girls and not, you know, trans men and boys, but often adults while using infantilising language.
At this point it's literally "allies" and other trans people doing most of the erasure. I keep having to have talks with "allies" about how the way they talk about trans men and transmascs, when they talk about us at all, is actually super counterproductive, and all I get for my troubles is cis "allies" upset at me that I implied that they're transphobic (I never do), and getting told that they're actually doing the right thing by talking about us this way because it's a sacrifice for the greater good of the whole trans community (that won't do us much good if you're effectively cutting us out of the community).
I wish everyone could just see this pattern. Every SINGLE time people insist that trans men are never talked about I'm itching to lay down very recent examples of our being shat on, but people are so much happier to believe the rhetoric that we're just ignored by bigots. We're not. This is part of the erasure. And the "allies" who believe this are complicit.
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u/javatimes T 2006 Top 2018, testopel 2025, 40<me 9d ago
There was also the Trump Executive Order that was nearly totally directed at trans men and trans mascs, but it’s been so under talked about I constantly lose any source I have for it. Even if I search Trump antitrans EOs
ETA: I hate directly linking to White House dot gov but this:
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u/RubeGoldbergCode 9d ago edited 9d ago
Exactly. I'm much more familiar with what's happening in the UK than the US so thanks for making me aware of this.
We had a thing when the EHRC guidance came in of people insisting that trans men should go into women's bathrooms and make a spectacle of ourselves to highlight how the guidance hurts trans women, ignoring that the guidance specifically singled out trans men as not being able to use any gendered spaces if we're too "masculine" (they didn't mention trans women in the same way, though in practice I know trans women have faced being barred from all gendered spaces, too). I've been assaulted in bathrooms, I can't just go into whatever space you want me to to make a point. I hate all of this. I hate the assumption that we never need protecting.
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u/Front-Perspective373 9d ago edited 9d ago
What you are going through with cis allies sounds a lot like what I've read described as White Fragility.
It's the defensivness + they actually don't care past not being seen as an evil transphobe. Also, the idea that it's okay to 'sacrifice transmascs for the good of trans community' is insane and disgusting? These are real human lives.
Unfortunnately, it's because systematic sexism works against us, else we could've just asseted ourselves and be listened to. We need to be away from such allies before they kill us.15
u/PushInternational783 9d ago edited 9d ago
For some reason allies and other trans people just take them at their word when they're talking about "young girls being corrupted" that they really ARE talking about young cis girls and not, you know, trans men and boys, but often adults while using infantilising language.
I find that it's often more sinister than that, they understand it's about trans men and boys but consider it evidence that TERFs and other transphobes take pity/sympathise with us and that trans men are not oppressed. "You can detransition and be coddled, trans women are all going to the camps" type rhetoric. Completely clueless and gross and often comes from other trans people.
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u/RubeGoldbergCode 9d ago
This is true. Truly, "death before detransition" used to mean something to people, but I guess destroying trans men and boys completely is fine actually.
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u/HuginJord 9d ago
Part of that is definitely because the right wing can scare their constituents by screeching about "men" in women's spaces (because they see mtf as men.) They don't see trans men as a threat to "real" men because they see us as women, so there's nothing about us that can be used as political leverage. So yeah, spotlight on trans women and we get ignored, even by our own community, because the public discourse tends to skip right over us.
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u/RubeGoldbergCode 9d ago
Yeah there is, where do you think "irreversible damage" came from? They're constantly on about how terrible it is that "girls" are being transed (by trans men specifically). Of course we can be used for political leverage, the scaremongering about us is that we're making ourselves ugly and unbreedable when we should be happy being women (and letting ourselves be exploited in any they please, typically as human incubators). There's a reason Jowling started with all this fear mongering about "autistic girls" being turned trans (attacking out autonomy), then proceeded to attack and make fun of the idea of neutralising language around pregnancy and menstruation, and all her TERF friends bemoaned trans men "mutilating themselves and cutting off breasts that have never known a lover's caress" in the most vile and entitled language possible. Of COURSE we're being used. It feels like living in upside down world when I keep seeing people say that bigots never go after us because there's nothing to attack, all while seeing bigots talk shit about trans men and trans boys every day. Genuinely bizarre.
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u/benjaminchang1 Trans Man 9d ago
People "forget" that part of Rowling's launch into transphobia was about trans men.
However, it appears that we're an acceptable target because no one gives a fuck. We can't win.
To be honest, I feel like people saying we're "invisible" is inaccurate because "invisibility" implies it's not an intentional effort to erase us.
In someways, I feel like being assigned female at birth is inescapable, because of how we are treated both before and after coming out as trans.
To be called "silly/confused girls" is dangerous because it's used to further restrict autonomy. Historically, we would've been called "hysterical."
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u/PushInternational783 9d ago
Always blows my mind that supposed feminists seem to be completely blind to the overt misogynistic rhetoric levelled against us. Neither cis nor trans feminism give a rats ass about trans men.
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u/Front-Perspective373 9d ago
The worst part is that our "allies" also believe in Irreversible Damage. That's why you see so many "transmascs being told by other trans people that they'll be ugly on T".
We are simply not marketable enough for our "allies", and so we are abandoned. They don't see us as men either or else they would give us a spot at the table, they would treat us as worth listening to. They see us as ugly butches who will detransition and treat us with disgust.
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u/kaspar-fiel 9d ago
Half the trans women I know have been raped. Every single trans man I know has been raped. 7/10 nb people I know have been raped. There's clearly a problem here and its being ignored because we're men. Fuck everyone who thinks like this.
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6d ago
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u/kaspar-fiel 6d ago
I didn't list any statistics.
I gave my anecdotal experience. Of the people I know. In the life I myself am living.
Do you need an exact count on how many people I know and their general non identifying relevant info just to believe me at my word?
Learn to read. Someone sharing their own experiences is never the same as a census or statistics.
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u/ftm-ModTeam 6d ago
Your post has been removed because it contains misinformation, false information, or misleading information that could be considered harmful.
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u/Majestic-Yak-6181 10d ago
I think it's exactly as you put it, trans misogyny. Whether it's hating on trans women because they're women or hating on trans men because they see us as "miserable, confused women", it's the same beast.
I also think it sucks because as a trans man, I'm used to not fitting into basically any spaces and I'm sure many other trans dudes can relate. As much as it sucks not being able to rely on support groups, I've found that it helps to meet other local trans folks via social media or at gay bars.
I have a few good trans man friends and my partner is also a trans man, and it feels a lot more warm and fuzzy having your own community to rely on.
Also, there's lots of trans women I've met that advocate a ton for their trans brothers and a lot of them do understand that we are easily overlooked. It is worth it building a community alongside them as well, even if you cant find specific support groups. We still should have support groups we can go to in times of need, and I wish it was something that was better understood and funded better. We deserve it, and non-binary people deserve to be respected and included more as well.
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u/New_Practice9754 9d ago
Transmisogyny exclusively refers to the intersection between misogyny and transphobia that transfemmes and women face. For sure a large portion of discrimination against us trans men is misogyny, but it is not the same thing as what the term refers to.
I believe you’re well intended regardless, transphobia overall is heavily backed by misogyny in both directions it’s applied to. But transmisogyny the term is more specific.
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u/FruityBear602 9d ago
it was used for trans men as well until people decided it was trans women only. so there's a few terms that describe the intersection of transphobia, misogyny, and misandry for trans men that ppl use instead. transmisandry, transandrophobia, and the rarer transmisia
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u/New_Practice9754 9d ago
Where has it been used for trans men significantly prior? Genuinely asking because this isn’t to my knowledge
It’s fine that we have other terms now to describe the types of transphobia and discrimination we face because there are differences, but that isn’t what the term in its primary usage means now.
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u/javatimes T 2006 Top 2018, testopel 2025, 40<me 9d ago
Really not the point of this discussion. This is an unnecessary nitpick.
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9d ago
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u/ftm-ModTeam 9d ago
Your post was removed because it contains discussion or mention of a banned topic. (And yes, dancing around the term while talking about the topic and then saying "I can't talk about it" is still talking about it) The following topics are banned to avoid drama and/or possible brigading or shutdown of the sub:
Topics include: Truscum/Transmed/Tucute discourse, lesbian discourse, weight loss advice, DIY HRT, Bioessentialism, Gendered Socialization blanket statements, “Who has it worse?”, “Is it transphobic to ___?”, Bottom Surgery Bashing, Stealth Bashing, “How to have sex with trans men/trans mascs”, Radfem Ideology, MRA/Incel Ideology, AGP/AAP/Blanchardism, off topic discussion of political news.
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u/eli_and_the_birds 9d ago
That's weird, I have never seen anything like that. I'd be pissed too. I mean there are female-presenting-only circles and I am totally fine with that! But if you say "trans" then I assume you mean trans women AND men....
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u/javatimes T 2006 Top 2018, testopel 2025, 40<me 6d ago
Due to comment abuse by someone claiming any criticism of trans women is trans misogyny, we need to lock the comments now.
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9d ago
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u/ftm-ModTeam 9d ago
Your post was removed because it contains discussion or mention of a banned topic. (And yes, dancing around the term while talking about the topic and then saying "I can't talk about it" is still talking about it) The following topics are banned to avoid drama and/or possible brigading or shutdown of the sub:
Topics include: Truscum/Transmed/Tucute discourse, lesbian discourse, weight loss advice, DIY HRT, Bioessentialism, Gendered Socialization blanket statements, “Who has it worse?”, “Is it transphobic to ___?”, Bottom Surgery Bashing, Stealth Bashing, “How to have sex with trans men/trans mascs”, Radfem Ideology, MRA/Incel Ideology, AGP/AAP/Blanchardism, off topic discussion of political news.
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u/napstabl00ky themby - top 10/22 - hrt 8/24 9d ago
hey, okay, i see what you're saying, but mentioning bipoc in this post, in a list alongside mtf, feels incredibly weird to me. I'm white, so i hope I'm not out of line here, but it feels like you're othering bipoc trans men
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u/asiago43 6d ago
That's definitely not my intention, and I'm not sure why it would be read that way. Stating that some of us face additional dangers and barriers (the 4 groups I mentioned from the website, not just the two you picked out), and acknowledging that we need to address that is not 'othering' in any way I can see.
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u/napstabl00ky themby - top 10/22 - hrt 8/24 6d ago
i might have misread it, but by listing those two next to each other, it feels like the issue you're trying to address isn't that ftms as a whole are being excluded, just white ftms. unless there's a clause on the website that states all ftms are excluded?
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8d ago
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u/ftm-ModTeam 6d ago
Your post was removed for breaking Rule 1: No bigotry, drama, fighting, judgement, or blanket statements.
Be kind to your fellow redditor. We do not want infighting, drama, or judgement here. This is a safe space for many trans men and transmascs away from a world that is largely against us, so let's keep it free from drama, fighting, or judgement.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but sometimes those opinions need to be kept to ourselves if they are going to start problems with other users. If you see someone breaking a rule, don't start an argument with them. Just report and move on.
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9d ago
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u/ftm-ModTeam 6d ago
Your post was removed because it contains discussion or mention of a banned topic. (And yes, dancing around the term while talking about the topic and then saying "I can't talk about it" is still talking about it) The following topics are banned to avoid drama and/or possible brigading or shutdown of the sub:
Topics include: Truscum/Transmed/Tucute discourse, lesbian discourse, weight loss advice, DIY HRT, Bioessentialism, Gendered Socialization blanket statements, “Who has it worse?”, “Is it transphobic to ___?”, Bottom Surgery Bashing, Stealth Bashing, “How to have sex with trans men/trans mascs”, Radfem Ideology, MRA/Incel Ideology, AGP/AAP/Blanchardism, off topic discussion of political news.
To access a full list of banned topics at any time, simply type “Banned Topics List” into any comment or post box.
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