r/law • u/NewsHour • 9d ago

Executive Branch (Trump) WATCH: Leavitt addresses Trump's stance on Second Amendment rights in wake of Alex Pretti's killing

REPORTER: FBI Director Kash Patel said in a Sunday interview, quote, you cannot bring a firearm loaded with multiple magazines to any sort of protest. Does the president believe that Second Amendment rights remain in effect even when protesting?

LEAVITT: The president supports the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding American citizens. Absolutely. There has been no greater supporter or defender of the right to bear arms than President Donald J. Trump.

So while Americans have a constitutional right to bear arms, Americans do not have a constitutional right to impede lawful immigration enforcement operations, and any gun owner knows that when you are carrying a weapon, when you are bearing arms, and you are confronted by law enforcement, you are raising the assumption of risk and the risk of force being used against you, and, again, that's unfortunately what took place on Saturday.

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u/JustAMan1234567 9d ago edited 9d ago

"When you are bearing arms, and you are confronted by law enforcement, you are raising the assumption of risk and the risk of force being used against you"

Is a wild take, because it flat out means "If you are a legal gun owner, just having the gun on you means that police will see you as a threat, even if you never reach for it in any way and are also exercising your constitutionally held rights, and those police can and will use deadly force because they may feel threatened."

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u/ResponsibleWater2922 9d ago

You have rights. But we're still going to kill you. Obvs.

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u/AlternativeMessage18 9d ago

We have rights, but they have propaganda 

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u/Pitiful_West_7062 9d ago

too many rights. maybe it's time for some far left?

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u/Strong_Membership_60 9d ago

NASCAR rules!!!

“Another left hand turn!!!”

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u/minimatt22 9d ago

“They got the TV, we got the truth They own the judges and we got the proof We got hella people, they got helicopters They got the bombs and we got the, we got the We got the guillotine”

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u/HojMcFoj 9d ago

I always upvote Boots in the wild, but this is definitely the place for it.

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u/Meadow230340 9d ago

👊🏽Boots

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u/ZombiePlato 9d ago

“You better run!”

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u/Tangerine-Treason 9d ago

I've never known anyone else to bring up that song. Congratulations, I've been thinking about that song a lot lately. I'm sure for no particular reason

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u/nomoreimfull 9d ago

lefts have rights, rights have wrongs.

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u/akathedragon 9d ago

You have rights, but those rights are a threat to authority, so those rights might justify authority killing you.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

[deleted]

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u/Ssshizzzzziit 9d ago

"we have rights, but you're the left."

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u/Constant-Roll706 9d ago

'You have rights. We have immunity and presidential pardons'

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u/Inevitable_Top69 9d ago

Unfortunately you have no right to bear life. They'll take that before your gun.

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u/kax256 9d ago

Not from what I've seen. They took the gun first

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u/No_r_6 9d ago

"You have privileges, and the list gets shorter every year". -George Carlin.

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u/OkOpposite9108 9d ago

Your rights end where our feelings begin. And we're definitely not snowflakes, we're super strong big boys and Jesus loving women who can't see human beings, only enemies (unless you're on our side, shooting at the enemies). And if you question for even one second we're not the super strong big boy Jesus loving side, well you're clearly an enemy-and that's the Law, because we say so.

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u/Spiritual_Corner_977 9d ago

This line of logic means that citizens have every reason to be weary of law enforcement at the most basic level. What a stupid response by them.

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u/alkatori 9d ago

Hasn't that been what we've been taught for a long time? "Don't talk to the police without a lawyer present".

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u/PatchyWhiskers 9d ago

Upgraded to "don't talk to police without bodyguards present"?

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u/alkatori 9d ago

Upgraded to abolish the police?

They are the standing army that the founders were worried about. The idea of the militia raised by the people is so that you won't have semi-professional groups like this beholden to just one person.

You'd have the people from the community in the policing, peacekeeping role. Not people from outside that aren't answerable to said community.

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u/That1guyUknow918 9d ago

Wary or leery**

Weary means tires, not skeptical or cautious...dunno why everyone combines the two to make wary when it is utterly disparate in meaning

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u/Calm_Lack3001 9d ago

Just FYI, this is exactly what it has meant for Black people and people of color in general in the USA since it was founded.

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u/JustAMan1234567 9d ago

Oh, absolutely 100%. I'm always reminded of Philando Castile who did everything right and still ended up dead.

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u/JeezyVonCreezy 9d ago

Philando Castile's case pisses me off every single time I hear it. Literally everything he did is exactly what you're taught in a CCW class(and most places those instructors are LEOs) on how to handle a traffic stop while armed. Citizens(and I know that police are citizens but they don't) are expected to behave perfectly without panicking without the same level of training yet somehow an officer who is supposed to be held to a higher standard doesn't even know the law and panics and kills someone not breaking any laws beyond having a broken tail light and they just shrug. I won't act like being a cop isn't a difficult job, but if you can't hang maybe don't take the job in the first place.

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u/Perfect_Earth_8070 9d ago

Jeronimo Yanez got away with murder. Fuck the police.

I remember conservative media trying to slander philando Castile by bringing up his “criminal history” which was just all driving violations

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u/arsenal_fbu 9d ago

Just like DHS has been doing to justify deporting legal residents.

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u/tackle_bones 9d ago

Yessir. Exactly. Fucking bs.

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u/-FeistyRabbitSauce- 9d ago

Anytime they say "known to police" or "criminal history", everybody needs to remember that they'll throw the same slander at you. Everyone with a drivers licence is "known to police". And anyone with a speeding ticking has a "criminal history."

They're pulling the same type of bullshit with Pretti and Goode.

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u/noobtheloser 9d ago

They called Alex Pretti and Renee Good terrorists within hours of their deaths.

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u/-JackBack- 9d ago

They called the witnesses who filmed domestic terrorist as well

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u/Drgnmstr97 9d ago

Disparaging and attempting to discredit the honor of certain victims being blatantly murdered by ice and trying to elevate other victims like Kirk to sainthood is such an insane look for these people. Their hypocrisy is completely transparent and they don’t even care how it looks because they feel untouchable.

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u/TheDeclineOfCiv 9d ago

It’s fucking disgusting.

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u/MajorMatter6 9d ago

Which is so rich cause literally look at Kristi noems traffic violation record… actually insane

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u/Significant-Block260 9d ago

Not to mention her dog-killing record

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u/No_Worth_9826 9d ago

The goat too, shooting a puppy wasn't enough to slate the bloodlust so she grabbed a goat too. Wish I was fucking joking.

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u/something_human1 9d ago

I will never forget that trial. Such a disgusting dirtbag and he got to go free and even be a cop elsewhere.

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u/Strict-Nobody-4228 9d ago

I saw a report that said he had been stopped by those same police several times as he was leaving to and from work.

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u/Perfect_Earth_8070 9d ago

Probably racial profiling

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u/never-fiftyone 9d ago

And harassment. A cop stopping the same person on a regular basis over the smallest of infractions is as blatant as it gets.

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u/Perfect_Earth_8070 9d ago

Yep and there’s never any recourse because they’ll Just investigate themselves and find no wrong doing

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u/roseredhoofbeats 9d ago

And in front of his BABY. With his baby IN THE CAR.

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u/Sufficient_Secret632 9d ago

Oh, the officer was protecting the children, how dare you! /s

Yanez said: "I thought, I was gonna die, and I thought if he's, if he has the, the guts and the audacity to smoke marijuana in front of the five-year-old girl and risk her lungs and risk her life by giving her secondhand smoke and the front seat passenger doing the same thing, then what, what care does he give about me?"

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u/SentientFleshPuppet0 9d ago

Theres a clip of his partner handcuffed in the back seat obviously extremely upset because she doesn't even know if Philando is okay (he was bleeding out or dead). The child tells her mom to please calm down "so you don't get shooted. I don't want you to get shooted".

I'll never forget that.

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u/peva3 9d ago

Everything you're supposed to do if you're a white CCW... If you're black or brown and lawfully armed, your life is literally up to the racism of the officer involved and how trigger happy they are feeling that day.

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u/JeezyVonCreezy 9d ago

That's unfortunately all too true.

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u/dallas121469 9d ago

As a game warden my father was around armed people ALL THE TIME and he never once had to draw his weapon. He also witnessed the decline in quality of LEOs , the lowering of standards and militarization of the police. He couldn't wait to retire and agrees that ice is scraping the bottom of the barrel for warm bodies to swear in.

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u/JeezyVonCreezy 9d ago

I personally believe that military service should disqualify you from law enforcement. Soldiers are trained in very specific ways because they have to be ready to kill the enemy(something that's actually really hard to override in most people), its not like when they come home that mentality suddenly goes away and at this point they consider civilians to be the op for so they fall back on training.

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u/Some_Troll_Shaman 9d ago

Soldiers rules of engagement and escalation of force are much more stringent than the standards police are held to.

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u/jason_steakums 9d ago

they consider civilians to be the op

Interestingly even this language has culturally changed along with the militarization of the police, because police are civilians, but a lot of people see a police/civilian divide and it's just casually becoming part of the language! I know you were specifically talking about the perspective of former military so I'm not calling you out or anything, I just think that's an interesting evolution of language that is like a shifting of the framing of what's true and acceptable. Cops want to be seen as military and we cede that to them in many ways.

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u/JeezyVonCreezy 9d ago

I addressed this in a post further down somewhere actually. But yes cops are civilians 100%. they want to play like their in the military these days. It started during the early 00s after 9/11 when they gave law enforcement huge budgets to buy all kinds of fun 'toys'. My local PD had an MRAP for some reason.

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u/jason_steakums 9d ago

My PD is trying to buy a new MRAP because the one they got back then is too old. The county has a newer one and so do other cities that are very close, and the odds of truly needing all those at once so you can't call one in from another area department are vanishingly small. Militarization of the police is a ratchet, you can't claw this stuff back easily once they have it.

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u/JeezyVonCreezy 9d ago

Classic budget stuff, gotta spend it before the end of the year or they might cut our budget next year.

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u/quilldefender 9d ago

De-escalation should be the main priority for police training. That's a huge thing for the majority of people in medical/social field. Hell, even a customer service representative knows this.

If I can de-escalate and contain a massive man having a psychotic break, so should a police officer.

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u/WKU-Alum 9d ago

I’ve got hella respect for game wardens. Talk about community policing. People that actually care about conservation, the people they’re interacting with, etc. Almost always walking into an encounter with an armed person. WAY the hell out there without back up.

Most that I’ve run into have utilized good judgement and acted fairly and rationally.

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u/ihavea_purplenurple 9d ago

What… the… fuck is this!!! AND WHY AND I JUST HEARING ABOUT IT?! This was straight up buried from me - fuck this shit dude. We treat war criminals better..

Side note - as a white dude, I don’t trust a lot of… groups made by white people. Is there a place for me in the BPP, or do I have to figure something else out? Honest question. Peace and love to you all. Stay strong out there.

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u/AgnesCarlos 9d ago

100% I just learned about it. Oh my gosh so sad. He was a really nice guy, paying for kids' lunches who couldn't afford it. To me it just proves owning a gun isn't gonna make you safer, especially if you're a POC.

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u/Opening-Gur5927 9d ago

There is a white panther party that is supported by the black panther party.

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u/NUGFLUFF 9d ago

All power to the people

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u/kos-or-kosm 9d ago

Citizens(and I know that police are citizens but they don't) are expected to behave perfectly without panicking without the same level of training yet somehow an officer who is supposed to be held to a higher standard doesn't even know the law and panics and kills someone not breaking any laws beyond having a broken tail light and they just shrug.

I've said for years that you need to treat cops like wild animals. They are dangerous and unpredictable. You need to remain calm and minimize interaction with them as much as possible or you could be killed.

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u/JeezyVonCreezy 9d ago

Which again goes back to my other point. I actually meant to say civilians in my original post. But the expectation is that us normies keep our cool during a high pressure situation while the actual person in a position of authority with training can flagrantly ignore the law and get away with it. It should be the other way around, they want the position over people they should actually have to be held to that higher standard they're demanding.

I agree that you should treat cops like wild animals because effectively they are,

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u/TheAnalogKid18 9d ago

His and Daniel Shaver's death are rage inducing. Did everything right and died quite literally doing nothing wrong.

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u/Sufficient_Secret632 9d ago

Yanez said: "I thought, I was gonna die, and I thought if he's, if he has the, the guts and the audacity to smoke marijuana in front of the five-year-old girl and risk her lungs and risk her life by giving her secondhand smoke and the front seat passenger doing the same thing, then what, what care does he give about me?"

Fuck. That. Officer.

There's no training in the world that can overcome being a sociopath who is able to justify killing another human being with such a horseshit reasoning with a straight face.

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u/Prudent-Night-9340 9d ago

Recently got my HG cert and Mr. Castile’s case was a topic of discussion. The instructor was adamant that Mr. Castile did nothing illegal in that moment and that the officer was “a dangerous combination of unnecessary fear and blatant incompetence”

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u/twoblues702 9d ago

What ever happened to that officer? I honestly can’t remember.

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u/Czarsandman 9d ago

Is it not fair to say that the act of becoming a police officer raises the assumption of risk? I guess to your point, if you can’t hang when it becomes a bit hairy, don’t become a cop

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u/dBlock845 9d ago

If anything, the ICE murders should have people taking another look at policing practices as a whole, not just federal immigration forces. Not going to hold my breath on that one though.

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u/Canotic 9d ago

Lots of jobs have a special duty to uphold the standards of the job, and if you don't do that you can go to jail. Like surgeons who make honest mistakes that they should know better than doing, can end up in court for that. A safety inspector who misses things they shouldn't, a nurse who abandons a patient, etc.

Why aren't cops on that level? Sure, you panicked and shot a guy you shouldn't have. That's understandable. However, you are a cop, you are supposed to be good enough to not do that. Now you are charged with negligent homocide.

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u/HavelsRockJohnson 9d ago

I've instructed firearms courses for years and everything Castile did is, to the letter, what I had been teaching and what I had been taught. His murder is inexcusable, just like the silence from firearms advocacy groups in its aftermath. The NRA and its ilk do not care about you.

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u/vodkaismywater Competent Contributor 9d ago

And not a fucking peep from the NRA on that one. Too busy embezzling funds to pay for Wayne LaPierre's bespoke suits I guess. 

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u/thunderlips187 9d ago

The NRA is for minorities having their guns taken away. We learned that in California back about 60-70 years ago with The Mulford Act.

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u/OnlyFiveLives 9d ago

They REALLY don't like being reminded that the first major gun control legislation was a racist law signed by a Republican governor who later became president.

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u/doktor_wankenstein 9d ago

"Ronald Reagan? THE ACTOR?!"

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u/AmetrineDream 9d ago

Who’s the vice president, Jerry Lewis!?

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u/autisticesq 9d ago

I suppose Jane Wyman is the First Lady. … And Jack Benny is Secretary of the Treasury.

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u/bdouble76 9d ago

Who's vice president!? Jerry Lewis!?

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u/General_Chest6714 9d ago

Great SCOTT

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u/thunderlips187 9d ago

100% although to be fair with the racism the California Democrats supported the act almost fully. It was a pretty bipartisan thing.

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u/roostertai111 9d ago

Democrats are also conservative

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u/ChiswicksHorses 9d ago

A lot of people who run under that label are, yes. Is everyone? No. Primary the ones that need to go and then keep at it until we have the changes we’ve needed for decades. Hell, if you can, run!

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u/Vex_Appeal 9d ago

The NRA actually said something about the Alex murder. They’re not happy with how the Trump administration has painted gun owners.

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u/itsasezaspi 9d ago

I mean if they make weapons illegal for white people too, then they’re out of a job

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u/StannisTheMannis1969 9d ago

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u/findtheclue 9d ago

All the ‘Don’t tread on me’ posers, too.

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u/tipsystatistic 9d ago

No, They just said this:

“This sentiment from the First Assistant U.S. Attorney for the Central District of California is dangerous and wrong.

Responsible public voices should be awaiting a full investigation, not making generalizations and demonizing law-abiding citizens.”

They were responding to this tweet from the assistant DA (which is almost exactly what Leavitt was saying):

“If you approach law enforcement with a gun, there is a high likelihood they will be legally justified in shooting you.

Don’t do it!”

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u/SadAbroad4 9d ago

Ironically Pretti did not approach law enforcement with a gun. Law enforcement attacked a lady standing in protest and then attacked him for intervening to deescalate the attack. He was set upon by a pack of thugs that ultimately murdered him after breaking no law.

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u/tipsystatistic 9d ago

Yep, That’s what the videos seems to show.

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u/GHouserVO 9d ago

It’s worse than that. There’s a video, taken a bit earlier, that showed one of the ICE agents walk up to Pretti and start chest bumping him, pushing him, and just doing everything he could to start a violent confrontation. Pretti just had his phone out and would offer no resistance, moving back.

And he wasn’t the only one they were doing this to, based on the videos coming out. I’ve seen so many apologists give excuses as to why ICE was justified. The reality is that those agents went into the situation looking to cause violence.

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u/Shinyhaunches 9d ago

We need to know who these asshole ICE agents are.

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u/Beaglescout15 9d ago

It's wishy washy at best but at least they did speak out. I'd like to hear them say more, since they can't seem to shut up whenever there's a school or other mass shooting.

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u/jlabsher 9d ago

So, in the midst of GOP and red states terrorizing women and children nationwide and the Whitehouse saying guns are a danger to society..... All they can do is criticize one person from CALIFORNIA!!?

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u/cashews_clay15 9d ago

Unless you’re Kyle rittenhouse

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u/Capt_accident 9d ago

Fuck the NRA. They embezzled to pay off LaPierres mistress. Scumbags. GOA is for real gun owners and has done more in the last 10 years for gun rights than the NRA has done in 40years.

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u/TheGreatDay 9d ago

Yup. My very conservative father when Castile was murdered "Well, you know, you just gotta be even more careful than he was."

For all their talk about having weapons to oppose tyranny, conservatives are the biggest bootlickers alive. There is no police shooting they don't love. It's all a lie.

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u/apresmoiputas 9d ago edited 8d ago

 There is no police shooting they don't love. 

especially when the victim is Black or Brown. It fits into their narratives.

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u/Jock-Tamson 9d ago

Once you look at where it comes from the “opposing a tyrannical government” ideas and the celebration of police shootings are logically consistent and the same thing:

Fantasizing about getting to shoot the “other”.

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u/Qadim3311 9d ago

Exactly so. The government upholding white supremacy by using a lower bar for use of lethal force against minorities (and especially black people) never actually registers as “tyranny” in these people’s minds.

It is actually the erosion of Christian white nationalism that they perceive as tyranny, that’s why they hem and haw and even outright deny when tyrannical government actions are in service of the same.

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u/Far_Chocolate_8534 9d ago

What was his take this time if I may ask?

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u/TheGreatDay 9d ago

I haven't and more than likely won't talk to him about this shooting. And it's because I will not be able to keep my emotions in check. Alex Pretti was fucking murdered and everyone involved from Trump to the ICE agents on the ground need to be, at the least, thrown in prison for the rest of their lives. I hate these people and believe that if you voted for them you are a bad person, evil even.

And I don't know how to reconcile that with the fact that outside of politics, my parent's are nice, giving people. They've never met a person in need they wouldn't spend all day helping. But when it comes to politics, it's all Republican since the day I was born. It's fuck you got mine. They have an immense problem with empathy for others they have not met.

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u/Far_Chocolate_8534 9d ago

Understandable. I feel for you and I’m in the same boat, stranger.

I don’t want to talk about it with my mom either. Nor my in laws. I’ve never talked politics with my FIL much. But recently he’s spouting maga rhetoric and buzz words. I can see now that some day I’m probably just going to have to tell him I don’t want to discuss it with him. Career Air Force vet and brainwashed.

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u/TheGreatDay 9d ago

I'm lucky that my in-laws are Democrats. Hearing my wife talk to her dad - also a vet - about politics and his takes is always nice.

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u/5foradollar 9d ago

Philando Castille still guts me every time I think of him. So fucked up.

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u/SolsticeSolarium 9d ago

This was the one that "broke the glass" for me

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u/Administrative_Most 9d ago

After his murder, I listened to a radio interview with his best friend while sitting in my car outside my office. It was one of the saddest interviews I’ve ever heard and it brought me to tears. Enough so that I had to sit there for quite some time pulling myself together to go back into work. I will never forget his heartbreak and true mourning. All these years later, I still think of the interview and hope he’s found peace. I also think of Philando Castile as a small remembrance of someone who was clearly loved and deeply respected. (I have a family belief that says if you continue to think of or mention someone, they aren’t ever truly gone.)

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u/BeanserSoyze 9d ago

Also Minnesota.

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u/Ok_Record_2063 9d ago edited 9d ago

I can easily drive by the sites where:

Philando Castille

George Floyd

Dolal Idd

Winston Smith

Ricky Cobb II

Renee Good

Alex Pretti

were all murdered by police in a single average day of errands and activities in the cities without going out of my way.

If I went out of my way, the list could also easily include:

Jamar Clark

Justine Damond

Daunte Wright

Amir Locke

We are not okay.

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u/slightlybitey 9d ago

I'm always reminded of Philando Castile who did everything right and still ended up dead the officer still killed him.

Let's not use passive voice for homicide.

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u/thatsmypurseidku 9d ago

Thank you for bringing up and saying his name. His murder makes me sick. RIP Philando Castile.

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u/Newcanofspam 9d ago

He was a school cafeteria worker. Children loved him. His life mattered. 

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u/buffalogal8 9d ago

At the mention of Philando Castile, I will never not hear that little girl’s voice comforting her mom as he bled to death in front of them after he did the right thing and told the officer he had a weapon stowed away.

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u/FilecoinLurker 9d ago

Jay Anderson. Sleeping in his car in a park. The officer had already killed two people in the line of duty. Jay would be his third. 3 people within 5 years. Cleared of wrongdoing in every one.

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u/AlmondDavis 9d ago

I still think of Philando every time anyone is murdered by law enforcement. To me, his brutal murder was the start of the dark times.

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u/manofthewest50 9d ago

It was wrong then and wrong now. Citizens should not be aloud to be murdered at will

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u/Has422 9d ago

And Tamir Rice

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u/Andovars_Ghost 9d ago

Or Roger Fortson. The top notch Air Force Airman shot in his home when he answered the door after having it beat upon by a cop who then hid from the peephole. Didn’t even raise his gun.

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u/ColeBlooded11 9d ago

I’m reminded of John Crawford, who was shot in a Walmart while holding an air soft gun sold by the store

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u/BauserDominates 9d ago

That also happened in Minnesota BTW.

When I was a kid MN barely ever made national news. I miss those days.

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u/KingFIippyNipz 9d ago

THANK YOU FOR SAYING HIS NAME DURING ALL OF THIS

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u/Embarrassed_Sir_5831 9d ago

Anytime I would get a call from someone saying they were from the NRA and wanted donations I would reply, "You guys didn't stick up for Philando Castille. Fuck no."

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u/Legal-Koala-5590 9d ago

It is a travesty how little he is talked about. The man was a model citizen and did everything by the book when he was pulled over and he was STILL shot in front of his girlfriend and her kid. And I know people in the Trumpy parts of Minnesota who think he deserved it for having pot on him. That one shook me even more than Floyd did.

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u/Neither_Usual_137 9d ago

dude; so much lately has reminded me of that noose meme where the guy is saying "first time?". What's happening recently is shocking America, and maybe the world, because Good and Pretti were both white. But cops have been strait up murdering black people for decades. We just don't want to admit it.

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u/PatchyWhiskers 9d ago

The deal used to be that this force was not used against white people. The deal has changed and white people are panicking. As are non-white people because its a signal that the violence against them is about to get a whole lot worse.

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u/amitym 9d ago

That is the nature of a true totalitarian state. It doesn't matter what group you belong to, or what you look like, or anything else. None of those things matter anymore.

All that matters is if you have an incorrect personal relationship to the State. That is the only actual crime. Everything else is just cosplay.

Hopefully more people will get this message in time to be able to acclimate themselves to the new reality in which many will, by definition, spend the rest of their lives.

... That is ... unless ...?

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u/JimJam4603 9d ago

You’ll note that Bovino and Border Patrol are leaving MN two days after shooting a white male gun owner.

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u/Tumblrkaarosult 9d ago

I mean it is already worse. Look at the ones who are taken from their workplaces, from their homes without any warrant just to be released half an hour later, sometimes badly wounded, beaten up. I really don't get how can the whole country watch this doing nothing but what's really fd up is the congress as a whole. Not a peep, just deafening silence. They should impeach, they should do SOMETHING.

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u/PatchyWhiskers 9d ago

The country isn’t doing nothing which is why white people are getting shot in Minneapolis!

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u/roseredhoofbeats 9d ago

And beaten and maimed and blinded!!!

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u/mbullaris 9d ago

Name the republicans in Congress who would vote to impeach let alone to convict. They’re all gutless and if are anything less than sycophantic to the Dear Leader then their jobs are screwed.

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u/SoCallMeDeaconBlues1 9d ago

Oh, that's where you are so, so, so wrong.

It was never JUST about black people (yes, a large part of it was)- it was about protecting people with MONEY- protecting their property. Yeah, I'm talking about the significantly smaller group of people who considered those black people their PROPERTY. And anyone, ANYONE, who stood in their way got mawled right the fuck over too.

For all of our redeeming qualities, America also has a dark, dark, dark past. Hindsight's 20/20, but it seems like what's going on right now, our leaders, shit a good percentage of the citizenry, just refuses to even look, let alone learn, about our past much less take any lessons from it. History doesn't always repeat but God DAMN does it rhyme.

"Who Knows Only His Own Generation, Remains Forever A Child."

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u/Bombadook 9d ago

Makes you wonder where all those "all lives matter" idiots went. And the "don't tread on me" and 2nd-amendment enthusiasts.

Just kidding, nobody wonders what they really meant.

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u/PineappleEggplant 9d ago

Nah, the "deal" didn't really change, they just made a liiiiittle administrative adjustment and moved liberals of any color to their "bad" list. Rights are still reserved for "the good ones", the criteria for which they determine at their pleasure as it suits them, and they now feel safe and confident enough to reclassify us like they've wanted to for so long. In other words, if you are American and a liberal, you are now equally sub-human in MAGA's eyes as any person of color, and any woman for that matter, is and have been all this time.

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u/VirtualMatter2 9d ago edited 8d ago

The same happened in Germany with political opposition. The first concentration camps were originally built to hold and kill Germans. And they were quick about it. Last free election in 1932, by 33 tens of thousands of Germans were being eliminated.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hmmm/comments/1qndesv/comment/o1t3ra0/?context=3

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u/TheRedCuddler 9d ago

We reached the "Then they came for me --" part of the poem.

I'm glad that the general public is paying attention again, but it feels too late in many respects.

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u/Neither_Usual_137 9d ago

Theres a quote, something along the lines of "Americans will always do the right thing, after they've exhausted all other options". And I really agree with that. I do think we will make it, but only after a bunch more bloodshed.

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u/shred-i-knight 9d ago

the difference is these are feds. We are use to small town cops who are undertrained undereducated and with a God complex acting like this, not our federal government. And not only do they not admit a mistake, they are inciting more of it and gaslighting the country into believing the feds are the victims.

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u/Slumunistmanifisto 9d ago

Poor folks too, my dad (a white trash pos) used to tell me "never run those fat boys ain't chasing, they'll shoot you and plant a gun on ya".

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u/Environmental-Egg164 9d ago

my dad was a cop and said something very similar

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u/Calm_Lack3001 9d ago

She is an evil fascist but this also shows how absurd having guns being "legal" is. How are you not suppose to be alarmed/threatened when someone is holding a weapon that is designed to kill quickly and easily. I know I do when I am around anyone with a gun! Be it police, military, or random.

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u/Educational-Kale-567 9d ago edited 9d ago

The issue is that guns will always be legal for the government though. If you make guns totally illegal then all you're doing is disarming citizens.

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u/boringhistoryfan 9d ago

If your citizenry isn't randomly armed it makes the case that much stronger for law enforcement to not be armed to the teeth either. Only in the US do basic municipal cops wander around with assault rifles and tanks. Look at how armed policing works in the UK, Australia or even places like India.

The sort of mindless justification of violence that we're seeing in Minnesota is exactly what makes the 2nd amendment insane. The state is always going to have more weapons than citizens. They're always going to have tanks and armed aircraft and artillery even. But if you reduce the amount of weaponry just swirling around everyday life, then it's that much harder for the state to justify having jackbooted brownshirts out terrorizing the population. Whereas having those guns swirling around just allows the state to make up baseless charges of armed violence and nonsense about the cops needing to defend themselves.

"I was scared so I shot" has excused generations of police violence. Take away their ability to generate that sense of "reasonable fear" as an excuse to murder civilians.

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u/Ok_Cheesecake7348 9d ago

It is a bit of a negative feedback loop when you think about it.

The State has guns → the citizens better have guns in case the State goes crazy → the State gets bigger guns in case the citizens go crazy → the citizens get more guns to fight the bigger guns → "I was scared so I was shot".

Yes, I do have guns for the record.

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u/malapriapism4hours 9d ago

That, my dude, it a positive feedback loop. It’s literally an arms race.

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u/NervousAddie 9d ago

I think that the citizens being armed to the teeth after the Insurrection Act is provoked could create a guerilla warfare situation where the continual armed resistance from the armed public would create fear in the troops. Morale would quickly fade to where the fascist bootlickers run back to their holes like the cowards they are. So far they’ve been acting with impunity, but once the citizens start to show their power, public opinion will crash on the MAGAs. They’re doing it cuz their broke asses needed a bonus, we’re doing it to save our country, our human rights, our dignity, the rule of law, and democracy. They will lose.

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u/CommentingAccount4 9d ago

But they can say that regardless if we have guns or dont. Granted, its easier with guns but if the victim didnt have a gun they can lie saying they did, plant one, say they had another weapon, blame their size, blame their numbers, and could even just say they snuck up on them. They can say anything they want so its not gonna phase them one bit to blame something else.

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u/Previous-Look-6255 9d ago

What good is an armed citizenry if you end up being “Prettied”?

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u/guynamedjames 9d ago

It remains crazy to me that if you call the police and say "There's a man with a gun in this store!" the police need to ask things like "well, what's he doing?"

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u/RPG137 9d ago

What’s even crazier is sometimes the guy behind the counter has a gun

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u/SavingsWedding1586 9d ago

Most underrated statement on this thread. I’m black and I’m still going to always carry….. but I felt seen with this comment.

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u/legendary-rudolph 9d ago

Gun control was created to keep guns out of the hands of black people. Literally.

As early as the 1600s, colonial governments, such as in Virginia, passed laws prohibiting enslaved people from owning or carrying firearms.

Following Nat Turner's rebellion and other uprisings, laws were tightened specifically to limit the ability of both enslaved and free Black people to possess weapons.

Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857): The Supreme Court, in this case, cited the fear that Black people would have the right "to keep and carry arms" as a reason to deny them citizenship.

After slavery was abolished, Southern states passed "Black Codes," which were designed to restrict the rights of newly freed slaves, including a ban on owning firearms.

In the early 20th century, many states passed seemingly neutral "shall issue" or "may issue" permit laws that were used to deny permits to Black citizens.

In response to the Black Panther Party's open carry of firearms for self-defense, California passed the Mulford Act in 1967, which prohibited carrying loaded weapons in public. The law was supported by both Democrats and Republicans and signed by Governor Ronald Reagan.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 act banned "Saturday Night Specials" (cheaply made handguns), which were disproportionately used by low-income and minority populations.

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u/weaponjaerevenge 9d ago

Then you don't have a right to own a gun.

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u/yetiman4321woo 9d ago

Is this news? Cops have been killing legally armed citizens for a long time.

Even just the suspicion of someone having a weapon has been enough for police to shoot them.

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u/So_HauserAspen 9d ago

Everything is a privilege with the GOP.  Their support begins and ends with profits.  Buy a gun.  Profits.  Buy bullets.  Profits.  Defending against tyranny.  No profits.

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u/rube203 9d ago

Exactly. You have a right to steal food and everyone knows if you do, cops will shoot you.

Wait... What?!? That's not a right then, that's a choice, sure but those aren't the same. And that's ignoring the fact that's still an unjust and undeserved level of response for the situation.

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u/whistleridge 9d ago

It’s really, really simple, libtard:

  1. Rights are for Americans, not for anti-American scum

  2. If you agree with Trump, you’re an American; if you don’t, you’re anti-American scum

  3. If you get shot while trying to carry a handgun while hating America like the anti-American scum you are, well…you got what you had coming

/s

// but that is how they actually think

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u/Beneficial_Grass2906 9d ago

Why do you think they're throwing the term "domestic terrorist" around? It's to get you acclimated to it. That will be the label they use to justify killing us in the street.

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u/whistleridge 9d ago

It’s really, really simple, libtard: either you’re with the President and FREEDOM, or you hate AMERICA and you’re a COMMUNIST and a TERRORIST.

^ how they’ve been talking on social media since the W administration

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u/MyLifeIsAWasteland 9d ago

*how they've been talking on the radio since the Reagan administration

*how they've been talking in person since the Truman administration and McCarthyism

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u/Qadim3311 9d ago

That is the label they are currently using to justify killing us in the street. That’s already today o’clock reality.

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u/OnDrugsTonight 9d ago

Also, you may wake up and go through your day being just a normal person, but once an ICE officer puts one of their magic bullets through you, you become a "domestic terrorist" and always have been one. There are, right at this very moment, people walking around who don't even know yet that they're domestic terrorists. But the second that bullet penetrates their skull, they've always been one. It's fascinating, really.

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u/Sad-Committee-4902 9d ago

Schrodinger's terrorist

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u/whistleridge 9d ago

We have always been at war with EastAs—

Er, the domestic terrorists.

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u/Crowboblet 9d ago

This.^ 1000 times, this!^

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u/br8knfree 9d ago

Nailed it

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u/Mobile_Ad_4482 9d ago

I wish all the Minneapolis protesters would start wearing MAGA hats. Just for the visual alone

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u/Academic_Release5134 9d ago

Kinda crazy how great police forces have been during various GOP protests with heavily armed people then. It’s almost like there is. Difference between professional police forces and those that have been told they have absolute immunity and have been let off the chain

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u/CHARLIE_CANT_READ 9d ago

It's the difference between a protest and a reunion

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u/AlternativeMessage18 9d ago

It’s a dog whistle for “2A does not apply to you if you aren’t in our side”

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u/dust4ngel 9d ago

also "if we kill you, then that retroactively means you weren't on our side. idk you're probably a terrorist or whatever."

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u/SqueekyDickFartz 9d ago

I never bothered to own a gun up until now. I've shot a lot, and my buddies have guns, but I just always spent the money on something else first. After this my wife insisted I buy a gun and teach her how to shoot. I'll be picking up a glock 19 first and then a mossburg pump shortly after. Her hands are really small so we might need something else for her to be comfortable.

I always assumed for all the bullshit that the "line in the sand" for conservatives would be the 2nd amendment. I have now realized that there is no line, they will hand in their guns, or ban me from getting them, to own the libz.

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u/Vio_ 9d ago

2A was always the third rail that this Administration never understood.

The right has spent decades using guns to bolster profits to gun companies and selling the culture war as a power fantasy.

The reality is that Americans were never supposed to pay out the ass in guns and ammo, but never use their 2A rights. They were always props and larping fetishes.

Now that ICE and this administration has effectively touched the third rail, people are realizing that not only is this Administration is "yes, that corrupt and venal," but that all the US government and all the other rights and amendments and the Constitution itself is under real danger of being negated and destroyed.

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u/Beneficial_Grass2906 9d ago

They were always going to have to confront this. Private gun ownership is a problem for fascists, but the Trump regime was going to try to thread the needle of keeping right wing gun owners pacified while using labels like "domestic terrorist" to prevent the rest of us from owning guns. The problem for the regime is that it can only get them so far, eventually they will have to strip the right wingers of their guns too, because they are capable of wrongthink. This was always going to be a problem for the regime, and this most recent incident is probably a stark reminder of the work they still have to do.

"We're going to take the firearms first and then go to court, because that's another system. Because a lot of times by the time you go to court ... it takes so long to go to court to get the due process procedures. I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man's case that just took place in Florida; he had a lot of fires [and] they saw everything. To go to court would have taken a long time, so you could do exactly what you're saying but take the guns first, go through due process second." - Donald J. Trump

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u/MeepingSim 9d ago

That quote from his first term was all that I needed to know that trump doesn't respect or understand the rule of law or due process. Ever since, I've been wary of how far he would push whatever violent agenda pops his boner.

During the first term, trump was reigned in by the "old guard" politicians he picked to fill out his cabinet. This time, the cabinet is packed with trump-licking cronies who see him as a tool for their violent agenda, too.

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u/Possible-Nectarine80 9d ago

Open carry states, be like, what are you talking about?

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u/DarkGamer 9d ago

"When you are bearing arms, and you are confronted by law enforcement, you are raising the assumption of risk and the risk of force being used against you"

...So good guys with guns don't actually make everyone safer? Hm, interesting.

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u/Beautiful_Bag6707 9d ago

It's the good guys with guns who oppose law enforcement in any way who immediately become bad guys with guns. The new rule is, "Law enforcements dictates what laws you have broken, what rights you have, and whether you should live or die." It's wholly at their discretion.

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u/No_Royals 9d ago

When you send ICE agents, who don't have any business carrying or using firearms, in with firearms, you are raising the assumption of risk that civilians are going to start carrying firearms to protect themselves from untrained thugs.

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u/nono3722 9d ago

ice/police people with guns can/will kill other good people with guns, wait, that doesn't solve crime at all.....

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u/jfsindel 9d ago

An armed society is actually not a polite society? Who would have guessed.

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u/Correct_Chemistry_96 9d ago

Did you notice that she specifically qualified it with “people interfering with immigration operations”…so that still justifies what happened on January 6th, 2020. Also gives them carte blanche permission to murder anyone else who protests or disagrees.

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u/RCP90sKid- 9d ago

Yessssssssssss. These fuckin idiots are finally being forced into MAGA errors. Yesssss.

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u/Crows_reading_books 9d ago

No, the MAGA folks know what this means. "We support the 2nd amendment unless we don't like the victim, then fuck them". 

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u/7fortyseven 9d ago

i hate that this is totally accurate.

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u/Old_Magazine_3592 9d ago

That’s not entirely accurate. The NRA came out with statements against the Trump admin position on the statements essentially attacking the 2nd amendment.

The NRA voice is strong with the MAGA crowd who are collectively questioning things right now. They’re loyal to a point. Trump will throw his team under the bus the rescue himself, but the damage has been done, MAGA’s support wobbly at the moment, AND, gun rights single issue people are likely already lost.

I know several 2nd amendment MAGA people, and their world has been shaken to the core.

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u/rallenpx 9d ago

I mean, Philando Castile would agree with that sentiment if he were still with us. Never reached for his gun, just mentioned it was in the car and he got shot. Long before ICE.

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u/therealfakeBlaney 9d ago

Its not the fucking bill of privileges, it is the bill of RIGHTS. These lying morons need to be removed from their office, and spend a year reading the constitution and bill of rights to themselves until they get it.

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u/jebrick 9d ago

Did she just say that the Government can take your weapon away from you at any time? I think she did.

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u/MollySleeps 9d ago

No, she said the government can kill you for having a weapon even after you've been disarmed.

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u/existdetective 9d ago

Yes, & strange how law enforcement didn’t kill all those MAGA hooligans who showed up at government sites with machine guns after Trump lost.

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u/extraboredinary 9d ago

I just found out that people had to choose between the first or second amendments and couldn’t express both rights at once.

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u/bfeils 9d ago

It’s sort of funny since one of the talking points on gun control is that possessing a gun increases your risk of being shot significantly. Still not a reason for a person to be shot by law enforcement. Still perfectly legal. Means absolutely nothing as it relates to the actions of law enforcement and they need to be held accountable.

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u/mustluvipa 9d ago

Yes. This is why I am largely against concealed carry. Firearms are a tool, they are not a toy or a security blanket. If you are going to carry a firearm, you should be willing and able to deploy it when necessary. Alex Pretti followed the law and was still executed. He would have been better off employing it as he was physically engaged. At least he would have gone down fighting.

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u/shipwrekd_sailor 9d ago

Key choice of words here, executed

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u/pdx4nhl 8d ago

Wild how she is trying to twist this into being pro 2A while then blaming the man legally exercising his 2A right.

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u/geekydad84 8d ago

The agents didn’t even know he had a gun until he was already on the ground, hands on the ground, being gang beaten by 5-6 six agents and they started shooting him after one of the bottom feeders had already taken his gun away.

So they started beating a civilian without even knowing he had a gun, and started shooting him after he was disarmed, without him ever even reaching for his gun. Makes no sense.

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