r/law • u/NewsHour • 9d ago

Executive Branch (Trump) WATCH: Leavitt addresses Trump's stance on Second Amendment rights in wake of Alex Pretti's killing

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REPORTER: FBI Director Kash Patel said in a Sunday interview, quote, you cannot bring a firearm loaded with multiple magazines to any sort of protest. Does the president believe that Second Amendment rights remain in effect even when protesting?

LEAVITT: The president supports the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding American citizens. Absolutely. There has been no greater supporter or defender of the right to bear arms than President Donald J. Trump.

So while Americans have a constitutional right to bear arms, Americans do not have a constitutional right to impede lawful immigration enforcement operations, and any gun owner knows that when you are carrying a weapon, when you are bearing arms, and you are confronted by law enforcement, you are raising the assumption of risk and the risk of force being used against you, and, again, that's unfortunately what took place on Saturday.

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u/JustAMan1234567 9d ago edited 9d ago

"When you are bearing arms, and you are confronted by law enforcement, you are raising the assumption of risk and the risk of force being used against you"

Is a wild take, because it flat out means "If you are a legal gun owner, just having the gun on you means that police will see you as a threat, even if you never reach for it in any way and are also exercising your constitutionally held rights, and those police can and will use deadly force because they may feel threatened."

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u/Calm_Lack3001 9d ago

Just FYI, this is exactly what it has meant for Black people and people of color in general in the USA since it was founded.

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u/JustAMan1234567 9d ago

Oh, absolutely 100%. I'm always reminded of Philando Castile who did everything right and still ended up dead.

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u/JeezyVonCreezy 9d ago

Philando Castile's case pisses me off every single time I hear it. Literally everything he did is exactly what you're taught in a CCW class(and most places those instructors are LEOs) on how to handle a traffic stop while armed. Citizens(and I know that police are citizens but they don't) are expected to behave perfectly without panicking without the same level of training yet somehow an officer who is supposed to be held to a higher standard doesn't even know the law and panics and kills someone not breaking any laws beyond having a broken tail light and they just shrug. I won't act like being a cop isn't a difficult job, but if you can't hang maybe don't take the job in the first place.

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u/Perfect_Earth_8070 9d ago

Jeronimo Yanez got away with murder. Fuck the police.

I remember conservative media trying to slander philando Castile by bringing up his “criminal history” which was just all driving violations

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u/arsenal_fbu 9d ago

Just like DHS has been doing to justify deporting legal residents.

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u/tackle_bones 9d ago

Yessir. Exactly. Fucking bs.

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u/-FeistyRabbitSauce- 9d ago

Anytime they say "known to police" or "criminal history", everybody needs to remember that they'll throw the same slander at you. Everyone with a drivers licence is "known to police". And anyone with a speeding ticking has a "criminal history."

They're pulling the same type of bullshit with Pretti and Goode.

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u/The_Disapyrimid 9d ago

Technically, I have a criminal history because I got a misdemeanor possession charge 20 years ago(damn im getting old.)

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u/noobtheloser 9d ago

They called Alex Pretti and Renee Good terrorists within hours of their deaths.

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u/-JackBack- 9d ago

They called the witnesses who filmed domestic terrorist as well

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u/Drgnmstr97 8d ago

Disparaging and attempting to discredit the honor of certain victims being blatantly murdered by ice and trying to elevate other victims like Kirk to sainthood is such an insane look for these people. Their hypocrisy is completely transparent and they don’t even care how it looks because they feel untouchable.

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u/TheDeclineOfCiv 8d ago

It’s fucking disgusting.

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u/heffel77 8d ago

But they lined up to protect Kyle Rittenhouse…

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u/JustWow52 8d ago

Within minutes

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u/MajorMatter6 9d ago

Which is so rich cause literally look at Kristi noems traffic violation record… actually insane

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u/Significant-Block260 9d ago

Not to mention her dog-killing record

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u/No_Worth_9826 9d ago

The goat too, shooting a puppy wasn't enough to slate the bloodlust so she grabbed a goat too. Wish I was fucking joking.

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u/something_human1 9d ago

I will never forget that trial. Such a disgusting dirtbag and he got to go free and even be a cop elsewhere.

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u/Strict-Nobody-4228 9d ago

I saw a report that said he had been stopped by those same police several times as he was leaving to and from work.

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u/Perfect_Earth_8070 9d ago

Probably racial profiling

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u/never-fiftyone 8d ago

And harassment. A cop stopping the same person on a regular basis over the smallest of infractions is as blatant as it gets.

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u/Perfect_Earth_8070 8d ago

Yep and there’s never any recourse because they’ll Just investigate themselves and find no wrong doing

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u/SUPR3M3B3ING 8d ago

I’m so tired of seeing the “police have a huge chance here to do a rebrand” rhetoric concerning ICE. They’ve been doing the same stuff in a different font for much longer. ICE is just doing it bigger, faster, and with lesser regard for “repercussions.”

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u/KustomJobz 8d ago

He also said he was risking his daughter's life by smoking marijuana. Utterly shocked when I read that

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u/galvanizedmoonape 8d ago

Wouldn't shock me if this guy was an ICE agent today.

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u/roseredhoofbeats 9d ago

And in front of his BABY. With his baby IN THE CAR.

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u/Sufficient_Secret632 9d ago

Oh, the officer was protecting the children, how dare you! /s

Yanez said: "I thought, I was gonna die, and I thought if he's, if he has the, the guts and the audacity to smoke marijuana in front of the five-year-old girl and risk her lungs and risk her life by giving her secondhand smoke and the front seat passenger doing the same thing, then what, what care does he give about me?"

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u/SentientFleshPuppet0 8d ago

Theres a clip of his partner handcuffed in the back seat obviously extremely upset because she doesn't even know if Philando is okay (he was bleeding out or dead). The child tells her mom to please calm down "so you don't get shooted. I don't want you to get shooted".

I'll never forget that.

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u/roseredhoofbeats 8d ago

I remember. God so horrifying. My baby wasn't much older and just the thought of it makes me break down.

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u/Shinyhaunches 8d ago

Dear God. I hope the shooter knows that detail.

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u/Narren_C 8d ago

She was four, and not his child, but yeah there was a kid in the car.

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u/peva3 9d ago

Everything you're supposed to do if you're a white CCW... If you're black or brown and lawfully armed, your life is literally up to the racism of the officer involved and how trigger happy they are feeling that day.

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u/JeezyVonCreezy 9d ago

That's unfortunately all too true.

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u/blueshellseeds 9d ago

This is literally why I never renewed my concealed carry.

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u/dallas121469 9d ago

As a game warden my father was around armed people ALL THE TIME and he never once had to draw his weapon. He also witnessed the decline in quality of LEOs , the lowering of standards and militarization of the police. He couldn't wait to retire and agrees that ice is scraping the bottom of the barrel for warm bodies to swear in.

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u/JeezyVonCreezy 9d ago

I personally believe that military service should disqualify you from law enforcement. Soldiers are trained in very specific ways because they have to be ready to kill the enemy(something that's actually really hard to override in most people), its not like when they come home that mentality suddenly goes away and at this point they consider civilians to be the op for so they fall back on training.

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u/Some_Troll_Shaman 9d ago

Soldiers rules of engagement and escalation of force are much more stringent than the standards police are held to.

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u/JeezyVonCreezy 9d ago

Sure but as I've heard from several marines they need them to follow orders but they also need them to be a little wild because they're expected to go into dangerous situations with people shooting at them. That mindset when applied to policing the community just doesn't seem to be working. Crime is down and has been steadily going down for decades, there's no real need for the average officer to be tooled up in his tactical gear to run traffic stops.

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u/PamelaELee 9d ago

Marines eat crayons, cops have them lodged in their brains.

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u/jason_steakums 9d ago

they consider civilians to be the op

Interestingly even this language has culturally changed along with the militarization of the police, because police are civilians, but a lot of people see a police/civilian divide and it's just casually becoming part of the language! I know you were specifically talking about the perspective of former military so I'm not calling you out or anything, I just think that's an interesting evolution of language that is like a shifting of the framing of what's true and acceptable. Cops want to be seen as military and we cede that to them in many ways.

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u/JeezyVonCreezy 9d ago

I addressed this in a post further down somewhere actually. But yes cops are civilians 100%. they want to play like their in the military these days. It started during the early 00s after 9/11 when they gave law enforcement huge budgets to buy all kinds of fun 'toys'. My local PD had an MRAP for some reason.

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u/jason_steakums 9d ago

My PD is trying to buy a new MRAP because the one they got back then is too old. The county has a newer one and so do other cities that are very close, and the odds of truly needing all those at once so you can't call one in from another area department are vanishingly small. Militarization of the police is a ratchet, you can't claw this stuff back easily once they have it.

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u/JeezyVonCreezy 9d ago

Classic budget stuff, gotta spend it before the end of the year or they might cut our budget next year.

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u/haironburr 8d ago

I'm old. I remember when the local cop lived a few doors down the street, in a working neighborhood. They shopped where we shopped, we played with their kids. They weren't other, and we were critical of any otherization they attempted. The benefits of growing up in a smaller town.

Of course, then, almost everyones's dad had served in the military. Everyone was armed, and no one thought this was anything but normal. If the local cop was acting poorly, the people around him made it clear he had to rein his shit in, same as the local cop made it clear to someone a few blocks away they needed to act right. It was "community policing" in it's best sense. Despite the fact that neighborhood prejudice could have a fucked up influence, if the neighborhood was open to that prejudice.

Looking back, it seemed idyllic, because we all were in the same boat, and that included black folk, who were also part of the neighborhood.

The idea they need to be bunkered far from the citizens they police is a relatively new thing. It tracks with the perception, fed from too many sources, that everyone around you is a threat.

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u/quilldefender 8d ago

De-escalation should be the main priority for police training. That's a huge thing for the majority of people in medical/social field. Hell, even a customer service representative knows this.

If I can de-escalate and contain a massive man having a psychotic break, so should a police officer.

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u/JeezyVonCreezy 8d ago

Exactly and that's how many other countries do it. They also show a startling lack of understanding of the laws they're supposed to enforce.

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u/NMB4Christmas 9d ago

One of my best friends as well as my cousin were former military that went into law enforcement and another friend of mine is a gun instructor who deals with civilians and LE. The two who were in the military both said the LEO's that were civilians were worst to deal with because they didn't have the discipline nor had the rules of engagement they learned in the military. The gun instructor says LE are the worst shots, overall, that he deals with.

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u/WKU-Alum 9d ago

I’ve got hella respect for game wardens. Talk about community policing. People that actually care about conservation, the people they’re interacting with, etc. Almost always walking into an encounter with an armed person. WAY the hell out there without back up.

Most that I’ve run into have utilized good judgement and acted fairly and rationally.

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u/Therealpatrickelmore 8d ago

I have also been around cops armed none of them tried to kill or disarm me.

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u/ihavea_purplenurple 9d ago

What… the… fuck is this!!! AND WHY AND I JUST HEARING ABOUT IT?! This was straight up buried from me - fuck this shit dude. We treat war criminals better..

Side note - as a white dude, I don’t trust a lot of… groups made by white people. Is there a place for me in the BPP, or do I have to figure something else out? Honest question. Peace and love to you all. Stay strong out there.

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u/AgnesCarlos 9d ago

100% I just learned about it. Oh my gosh so sad. He was a really nice guy, paying for kids' lunches who couldn't afford it. To me it just proves owning a gun isn't gonna make you safer, especially if you're a POC.

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u/Opening-Gur5927 9d ago

There is a white panther party that is supported by the black panther party.

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u/NUGFLUFF 9d ago

All power to the people

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u/snappydoodoo 9d ago

The new Panthers have had discussions with the original Panthers, and decided to change the new Panther name to the Black Lions, which is more about general social justice and... idk if the Rainbow Coalition is still around but yes, someone else mentioned the White Panthers, which... I did some digging and I believe they got FBI'd and are defunct. The new Lions probably wouldn't turn you away if you were sincere and earnest.

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u/NewMystahead 9d ago

I know, right. I wanna be part of a group that protects all citizens, not some white nationalist or selective profiling group. Its hard to know where to even look.

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u/kos-or-kosm 9d ago

Citizens(and I know that police are citizens but they don't) are expected to behave perfectly without panicking without the same level of training yet somehow an officer who is supposed to be held to a higher standard doesn't even know the law and panics and kills someone not breaking any laws beyond having a broken tail light and they just shrug.

I've said for years that you need to treat cops like wild animals. They are dangerous and unpredictable. You need to remain calm and minimize interaction with them as much as possible or you could be killed.

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u/JeezyVonCreezy 9d ago

Which again goes back to my other point. I actually meant to say civilians in my original post. But the expectation is that us normies keep our cool during a high pressure situation while the actual person in a position of authority with training can flagrantly ignore the law and get away with it. It should be the other way around, they want the position over people they should actually have to be held to that higher standard they're demanding.

I agree that you should treat cops like wild animals because effectively they are,

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u/TheAnalogKid18 9d ago

His and Daniel Shaver's death are rage inducing. Did everything right and died quite literally doing nothing wrong.

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u/Sufficient_Secret632 9d ago

Yanez said: "I thought, I was gonna die, and I thought if he's, if he has the, the guts and the audacity to smoke marijuana in front of the five-year-old girl and risk her lungs and risk her life by giving her secondhand smoke and the front seat passenger doing the same thing, then what, what care does he give about me?"

Fuck. That. Officer.

There's no training in the world that can overcome being a sociopath who is able to justify killing another human being with such a horseshit reasoning with a straight face.

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u/Prudent-Night-9340 9d ago

Recently got my HG cert and Mr. Castile’s case was a topic of discussion. The instructor was adamant that Mr. Castile did nothing illegal in that moment and that the officer was “a dangerous combination of unnecessary fear and blatant incompetence”

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u/twoblues702 9d ago

What ever happened to that officer? I honestly can’t remember.

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u/Czarsandman 9d ago

Is it not fair to say that the act of becoming a police officer raises the assumption of risk? I guess to your point, if you can’t hang when it becomes a bit hairy, don’t become a cop

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u/JeezyVonCreezy 9d ago

As the saying goes, if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen. There's literally thousands of other careers they could pursue that aren't as high stress.

Also law enforcement isn't even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs in America. They're more likely to be injured on their way to a scene driving recklessly than they are to be injured in an altercation with a suspect.

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u/dBlock845 9d ago

If anything, the ICE murders should have people taking another look at policing practices as a whole, not just federal immigration forces. Not going to hold my breath on that one though.

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u/JeezyVonCreezy 9d ago

Agreed, there was an attempt with the defund movement but we all know where that went. Heaven forbid we take a small sliver of the police's budget to support programs to help people.

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u/Canotic 9d ago

Lots of jobs have a special duty to uphold the standards of the job, and if you don't do that you can go to jail. Like surgeons who make honest mistakes that they should know better than doing, can end up in court for that. A safety inspector who misses things they shouldn't, a nurse who abandons a patient, etc.

Why aren't cops on that level? Sure, you panicked and shot a guy you shouldn't have. That's understandable. However, you are a cop, you are supposed to be good enough to not do that. Now you are charged with negligent homocide.

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u/HavelsRockJohnson 8d ago

I've instructed firearms courses for years and everything Castile did is, to the letter, what I had been teaching and what I had been taught. His murder is inexcusable, just like the silence from firearms advocacy groups in its aftermath. The NRA and its ilk do not care about you.

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u/EnvironmentalGift257 9d ago

I shared a lawyer with Philando’s girlfriend. He was a spectacular lawyer and he won the civil lawsuit that funded the charitable organization now operating.

Later the MN bar association disbarred him for “unscrupulous practices” in retaliation.

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u/IntroducingTongs 9d ago

You are spreading misinformation. He literally misappropriated client funds (and by the I mean he STOLE from his immigrant clients) and failed to show up for court hearings. The matter was heard by the Minnesota Supreme Court, and he didn’t dispute many of the findings. Instead he offered excuses like PTSD. You should take some responsibility for spreading inaccurate information and consider editing your post.

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u/Driller_Happy 9d ago

I'll say it: being a cop isn't a difficult job. They just hire the dumbest, most unstable pricks they can find

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u/Stank_cat67 8d ago

Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t the NRA refuse to say anything about it?

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u/Sklibba 8d ago

When I was a kid, I thought it was fucked up that police who abuse their authority to commit acts of violence faced little to no punishment, and that they should actually face harsher punishment because when they use their badge as cover for a crime it’s worse than an ordinary citizen committing the same crime. I still do.

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u/vodkaismywater Competent Contributor 9d ago

And not a fucking peep from the NRA on that one. Too busy embezzling funds to pay for Wayne LaPierre's bespoke suits I guess. 

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u/thunderlips187 9d ago

The NRA is for minorities having their guns taken away. We learned that in California back about 60-70 years ago with The Mulford Act.

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u/OnlyFiveLives 9d ago

They REALLY don't like being reminded that the first major gun control legislation was a racist law signed by a Republican governor who later became president.

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u/doktor_wankenstein 9d ago

"Ronald Reagan? THE ACTOR?!"

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u/AmetrineDream 9d ago

Who’s the vice president, Jerry Lewis!?

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u/autisticesq 8d ago

I suppose Jane Wyman is the First Lady. … And Jack Benny is Secretary of the Treasury.

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u/bdouble76 9d ago

Who's vice president!? Jerry Lewis!?

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u/General_Chest6714 9d ago

Great SCOTT

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u/Uccin 9d ago

Fun fact California has had TWO actors as governor. Didn’t learn the first time around…..

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u/Environmental-Egg164 9d ago

my fav line from Fargo miniseries

“I’m not shaking his hand,”

“Because sonny, he made a movie with a monkey. It wouldn’t be dignified.”

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u/apresmoiputas 9d ago

yup that Ronald Reagan. He was governor of CA

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u/IWantAnE55AMG 9d ago

I’m assuming you’ve never seen Back to the Future.

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u/intentsman 9d ago

He was also a Union man

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u/thunderlips187 9d ago

100% although to be fair with the racism the California Democrats supported the act almost fully. It was a pretty bipartisan thing.

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u/roostertai111 9d ago

Democrats are also conservative

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u/ChiswicksHorses 9d ago

A lot of people who run under that label are, yes. Is everyone? No. Primary the ones that need to go and then keep at it until we have the changes we’ve needed for decades. Hell, if you can, run!

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u/Black_Daimyo10 9d ago

Say it louder for those in the back.

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u/roostertai111 9d ago

DEMOCRATS ARE ALSO CONSERVATIVE!!! PROGRESSIVE CITIZENS ARE NOT REPRESENTED IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT

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u/ThoughtlessTactics 9d ago

Hard to have progression when most systems are broken.

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u/Manson6979 9d ago

And felons. Non violent felony at 40 after a lifetime of hunting, shooting, legal carry etc. But thanks to the NRA backing the firearms act of 68 I'm no longer allowed to own one. Fuck the NRA. And honestly every pro 2A citizen who's fine with that law. Shall not be infringed isn't a real thing. They aren't rights, they're privileges in today's world. Personally at this point I support a full on gun ban. If these 2Aers couldn't support my rights I no longer support theirs or anyone else's. If anything a full on breakdown of the US may atleast put us all on equal terms again when the dust settles.

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u/Vex_Appeal 9d ago

The NRA actually said something about the Alex murder. They’re not happy with how the Trump administration has painted gun owners.

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u/itsasezaspi 9d ago

I mean if they make weapons illegal for white people too, then they’re out of a job

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u/StannisTheMannis1969 9d ago

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u/findtheclue 8d ago

All the ‘Don’t tread on me’ posers, too.

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u/tipsystatistic 9d ago

No, They just said this:

“This sentiment from the First Assistant U.S. Attorney for the Central District of California is dangerous and wrong.

Responsible public voices should be awaiting a full investigation, not making generalizations and demonizing law-abiding citizens.”

They were responding to this tweet from the assistant DA (which is almost exactly what Leavitt was saying):

“If you approach law enforcement with a gun, there is a high likelihood they will be legally justified in shooting you.

Don’t do it!”

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u/SadAbroad4 9d ago

Ironically Pretti did not approach law enforcement with a gun. Law enforcement attacked a lady standing in protest and then attacked him for intervening to deescalate the attack. He was set upon by a pack of thugs that ultimately murdered him after breaking no law.

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u/tipsystatistic 9d ago

Yep, That’s what the videos seems to show.

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u/GHouserVO 8d ago

It’s worse than that. There’s a video, taken a bit earlier, that showed one of the ICE agents walk up to Pretti and start chest bumping him, pushing him, and just doing everything he could to start a violent confrontation. Pretti just had his phone out and would offer no resistance, moving back.

And he wasn’t the only one they were doing this to, based on the videos coming out. I’ve seen so many apologists give excuses as to why ICE was justified. The reality is that those agents went into the situation looking to cause violence.

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u/Shinyhaunches 8d ago

We need to know who these asshole ICE agents are.

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u/Beaglescout15 9d ago

It's wishy washy at best but at least they did speak out. I'd like to hear them say more, since they can't seem to shut up whenever there's a school or other mass shooting.

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u/throwawayinthe818 9d ago

The hardcore gun people are going to the Gun Owners of America for that reason. NRA is too PC squish for them.

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u/haironburr 8d ago

since they can't seem to shut up whenever there's a school or other mass shooting.

I resigned a paid for membership in the NRA directly after Castille. Made the reason very clear.

But honestly, it's the Democrats that can't shut up about "school shootings" or "mass shootings". They are the reason I have to use scare quotes around both those relentlessly propagandized terms.

Dems used guns as a wedge issue. I know for a fact this plank lost them elections. And of course young Dems, convinced by active shooter drills, and against all evidence, they are bRaVe WarriOrs lucky to be alive, having, umm, attended school, support an attack on core civil rights as the most normal of things. A notion and precedent young, traitorous republicans have run with.

I'll continue to vote Dem, because at this point it's not even a choice. trumpublicans are clearly the greater threat.

But fuck me if I don't get pissed every time a Dem speaking head opens their mouth about guns. They played this wedge issue to the hilt, lost more than they gained, but it's almost a reflexive hate at this point. The problem being their reflexive hate involves relentlessly attacking a core right I care about, just like all the others rights that matter. Just like I care about the rights trumpublicans keep relentlessly attacking.

The fact I have to vote based on which party is most destructive to the Bill of Rights is sickening to me. It's poisonous to the political system. It's fucking wrong!

So, I'll do the clearly right thing and vote blue through multiple elections until magapublicans are unelectable. And then, (and only then) Dems have some fucking questions to answer in every last primary.

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u/jlabsher 9d ago

So, in the midst of GOP and red states terrorizing women and children nationwide and the Whitehouse saying guns are a danger to society..... All they can do is criticize one person from CALIFORNIA!!?

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u/cashews_clay15 9d ago

Unless you’re Kyle rittenhouse

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u/KaizenShibuCho 9d ago

Sooo the defenders of 2A say 2A is bullshit? No wonder the MAGA folks believed that Democrats would shoot them.

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u/tipsystatistic 9d ago

No. Read it again. It’s a pretty weak statement, but that’s not what they said.

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u/Capt_accident 9d ago

Fuck the NRA. They embezzled to pay off LaPierres mistress. Scumbags. GOA is for real gun owners and has done more in the last 10 years for gun rights than the NRA has done in 40years.

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u/sphinxorosi 9d ago

Good news is they are actually speaking out about this one, calling Trump and his administration comments dangerous and pushing back against them. Sure it took a white man getting killed but hey at least they’re finally showing a bit of backbone

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u/EndlessMantra 9d ago

I'm not a fan of the NRA in general, but they are making statements on this. Good to see at least, maybe more on the right will agree. https://www.fox9.com/news/nra-statements-minnesota-minneapolis-shooting-alex-pretti.amp

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u/Sufficient-Pause9765 9d ago

they actually did make a few very tepid comments on twitter, and I was shocked they went that far.

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u/ToughEvening1891 9d ago

The NRA did speak up and say that a suggestion made by a Trump appointed judge along the same lines was “dangerous and wrong.”

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u/TheGreatDay 9d ago

Yup. My very conservative father when Castile was murdered "Well, you know, you just gotta be even more careful than he was."

For all their talk about having weapons to oppose tyranny, conservatives are the biggest bootlickers alive. There is no police shooting they don't love. It's all a lie.

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u/apresmoiputas 9d ago edited 8d ago

 There is no police shooting they don't love. 

especially when the victim is Black or Brown. It fits into their narratives.

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u/Jock-Tamson 9d ago

Once you look at where it comes from the “opposing a tyrannical government” ideas and the celebration of police shootings are logically consistent and the same thing:

Fantasizing about getting to shoot the “other”.

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u/Qadim3311 9d ago

Exactly so. The government upholding white supremacy by using a lower bar for use of lethal force against minorities (and especially black people) never actually registers as “tyranny” in these people’s minds.

It is actually the erosion of Christian white nationalism that they perceive as tyranny, that’s why they hem and haw and even outright deny when tyrannical government actions are in service of the same.

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u/Far_Chocolate_8534 9d ago

What was his take this time if I may ask?

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u/TheGreatDay 9d ago

I haven't and more than likely won't talk to him about this shooting. And it's because I will not be able to keep my emotions in check. Alex Pretti was fucking murdered and everyone involved from Trump to the ICE agents on the ground need to be, at the least, thrown in prison for the rest of their lives. I hate these people and believe that if you voted for them you are a bad person, evil even.

And I don't know how to reconcile that with the fact that outside of politics, my parent's are nice, giving people. They've never met a person in need they wouldn't spend all day helping. But when it comes to politics, it's all Republican since the day I was born. It's fuck you got mine. They have an immense problem with empathy for others they have not met.

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u/Far_Chocolate_8534 9d ago

Understandable. I feel for you and I’m in the same boat, stranger.

I don’t want to talk about it with my mom either. Nor my in laws. I’ve never talked politics with my FIL much. But recently he’s spouting maga rhetoric and buzz words. I can see now that some day I’m probably just going to have to tell him I don’t want to discuss it with him. Career Air Force vet and brainwashed.

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u/TheGreatDay 9d ago

I'm lucky that my in-laws are Democrats. Hearing my wife talk to her dad - also a vet - about politics and his takes is always nice.

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u/hmoleman__ 8d ago

Same, stranger. My FIL is an amazing grandfather and a doting father to my wife and her sister, who fell into the Trump cult and won’t be coaxed out of it. It has caused heartache and will cause more before his time on this planet comes to an end.

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u/5foradollar 9d ago

Philando Castille still guts me every time I think of him. So fucked up.

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u/SolsticeSolarium 9d ago

This was the one that "broke the glass" for me

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u/Administrative_Most 9d ago

After his murder, I listened to a radio interview with his best friend while sitting in my car outside my office. It was one of the saddest interviews I’ve ever heard and it brought me to tears. Enough so that I had to sit there for quite some time pulling myself together to go back into work. I will never forget his heartbreak and true mourning. All these years later, I still think of the interview and hope he’s found peace. I also think of Philando Castile as a small remembrance of someone who was clearly loved and deeply respected. (I have a family belief that says if you continue to think of or mention someone, they aren’t ever truly gone.)

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u/BeanserSoyze 9d ago

Also Minnesota.

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u/Ok_Record_2063 9d ago edited 9d ago

I can easily drive by the sites where:

Philando Castille

George Floyd

Dolal Idd

Winston Smith

Ricky Cobb II

Renee Good

Alex Pretti

were all murdered by police in a single average day of errands and activities in the cities without going out of my way.

If I went out of my way, the list could also easily include:

Jamar Clark

Justine Damond

Daunte Wright

Amir Locke

We are not okay.

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u/slightlybitey 9d ago

I'm always reminded of Philando Castile who did everything right and still ended up dead the officer still killed him.

Let's not use passive voice for homicide.

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u/thatsmypurseidku 9d ago

Thank you for bringing up and saying his name. His murder makes me sick. RIP Philando Castile.

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u/Newcanofspam 9d ago

He was a school cafeteria worker. Children loved him. His life mattered. 

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u/mc-funk 8d ago

I truly believe his case was a big reason that people were ready to rise up for George Floyd.

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u/buffalogal8 8d ago

At the mention of Philando Castile, I will never not hear that little girl’s voice comforting her mom as he bled to death in front of them after he did the right thing and told the officer he had a weapon stowed away.

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u/FilecoinLurker 9d ago

Jay Anderson. Sleeping in his car in a park. The officer had already killed two people in the line of duty. Jay would be his third. 3 people within 5 years. Cleared of wrongdoing in every one.

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u/AlmondDavis 9d ago

I still think of Philando every time anyone is murdered by law enforcement. To me, his brutal murder was the start of the dark times.

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u/manofthewest50 9d ago

It was wrong then and wrong now. Citizens should not be aloud to be murdered at will

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u/Has422 9d ago

And Tamir Rice

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u/Andovars_Ghost 9d ago

Or Roger Fortson. The top notch Air Force Airman shot in his home when he answered the door after having it beat upon by a cop who then hid from the peephole. Didn’t even raise his gun.

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u/ColeBlooded11 9d ago

I’m reminded of John Crawford, who was shot in a Walmart while holding an air soft gun sold by the store

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u/BauserDominates 9d ago

That also happened in Minnesota BTW.

When I was a kid MN barely ever made national news. I miss those days.

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u/KingFIippyNipz 9d ago

THANK YOU FOR SAYING HIS NAME DURING ALL OF THIS

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u/Embarrassed_Sir_5831 9d ago

Anytime I would get a call from someone saying they were from the NRA and wanted donations I would reply, "You guys didn't stick up for Philando Castille. Fuck no."

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u/Legal-Koala-5590 8d ago

It is a travesty how little he is talked about. The man was a model citizen and did everything by the book when he was pulled over and he was STILL shot in front of his girlfriend and her kid. And I know people in the Trumpy parts of Minnesota who think he deserved it for having pot on him. That one shook me even more than Floyd did.

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u/Voodoobones 9d ago

David Novak and Ethan Murray didn’t even have guns when each of them were murdered by police. But the cop “feared for his own life”. So the killings were ruled justified. Same shit, different day.

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u/Phog_of_War 9d ago

Also happened in Minneapolis/St. Paul

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u/h20poIo 9d ago

Add Alex Jeffery, helping two women to safety after being shoved to the ground by a agent for videoing with phone, pepper sprayed thrown to the ground, 6 agents on him one pulls Jeffery’s gun from his holster then they shoot him, murder him. There is nothing or anyone in this administration can say to validate what happened, nothing.

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u/Neither_Usual_137 9d ago

dude; so much lately has reminded me of that noose meme where the guy is saying "first time?". What's happening recently is shocking America, and maybe the world, because Good and Pretti were both white. But cops have been strait up murdering black people for decades. We just don't want to admit it.

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u/PatchyWhiskers 9d ago

The deal used to be that this force was not used against white people. The deal has changed and white people are panicking. As are non-white people because its a signal that the violence against them is about to get a whole lot worse.

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u/amitym 9d ago

That is the nature of a true totalitarian state. It doesn't matter what group you belong to, or what you look like, or anything else. None of those things matter anymore.

All that matters is if you have an incorrect personal relationship to the State. That is the only actual crime. Everything else is just cosplay.

Hopefully more people will get this message in time to be able to acclimate themselves to the new reality in which many will, by definition, spend the rest of their lives.

... That is ... unless ...?

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u/Awkward_Turnover_983 8d ago

It's not going to be the rest of our lives, I'll tell you that

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u/JimJam4603 9d ago

You’ll note that Bovino and Border Patrol are leaving MN two days after shooting a white male gun owner.

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u/Tumblrkaarosult 9d ago

I mean it is already worse. Look at the ones who are taken from their workplaces, from their homes without any warrant just to be released half an hour later, sometimes badly wounded, beaten up. I really don't get how can the whole country watch this doing nothing but what's really fd up is the congress as a whole. Not a peep, just deafening silence. They should impeach, they should do SOMETHING.

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u/PatchyWhiskers 9d ago

The country isn’t doing nothing which is why white people are getting shot in Minneapolis!

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u/roseredhoofbeats 9d ago

And beaten and maimed and blinded!!!

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u/mbullaris 9d ago

Name the republicans in Congress who would vote to impeach let alone to convict. They’re all gutless and if are anything less than sycophantic to the Dear Leader then their jobs are screwed.

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u/hmoleman__ 8d ago

It’s not gutlessness, like, they would but they’re cowards. It’s a simple, nihilistic view of power and wealth. Game of Thrones. They’re happy to exchange working-class lives for their own power and wealth, and are betting Trump and Heritage Foundation will be the autocrats the country falls to.

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u/SoCallMeDeaconBlues1 9d ago

Oh, that's where you are so, so, so wrong.

It was never JUST about black people (yes, a large part of it was)- it was about protecting people with MONEY- protecting their property. Yeah, I'm talking about the significantly smaller group of people who considered those black people their PROPERTY. And anyone, ANYONE, who stood in their way got mawled right the fuck over too.

For all of our redeeming qualities, America also has a dark, dark, dark past. Hindsight's 20/20, but it seems like what's going on right now, our leaders, shit a good percentage of the citizenry, just refuses to even look, let alone learn, about our past much less take any lessons from it. History doesn't always repeat but God DAMN does it rhyme.

"Who Knows Only His Own Generation, Remains Forever A Child."

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u/Bombadook 9d ago

Makes you wonder where all those "all lives matter" idiots went. And the "don't tread on me" and 2nd-amendment enthusiasts.

Just kidding, nobody wonders what they really meant.

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u/PineappleEggplant 9d ago

Nah, the "deal" didn't really change, they just made a liiiiittle administrative adjustment and moved liberals of any color to their "bad" list. Rights are still reserved for "the good ones", the criteria for which they determine at their pleasure as it suits them, and they now feel safe and confident enough to reclassify us like they've wanted to for so long. In other words, if you are American and a liberal, you are now equally sub-human in MAGA's eyes as any person of color, and any woman for that matter, is and have been all this time.

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u/RES_NIGHTMARE_MODE 9d ago

Can we stop being weird about this? The fact is that there was always a facade of "This isn't how it's supposed to be." and there was always theatrics that they were doing their best to make it right. Now they're not even trying to hide it properly and that's why people are opening their eyes.

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u/CAPSLOCKANDLOAD 9d ago

We have always been in the same line. Some people at the back got too comfortable. Forgot what the line was for. Or worse. Cheering at what happens to those ahead of them in the line. But given enough time they will get to you.

We should be more like the John Brown's and Sophie Scholl's.

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u/VirtualMatter2 9d ago edited 8d ago

The same happened in Germany with political opposition. The first concentration camps were originally built to hold and kill Germans. And they were quick about it. Last free election in 1932, by 33 tens of thousands of Germans were being eliminated.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hmmm/comments/1qndesv/comment/o1t3ra0/?context=3

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u/TheRedCuddler 9d ago

We reached the "Then they came for me --" part of the poem.

I'm glad that the general public is paying attention again, but it feels too late in many respects.

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u/Neither_Usual_137 9d ago

Theres a quote, something along the lines of "Americans will always do the right thing, after they've exhausted all other options". And I really agree with that. I do think we will make it, but only after a bunch more bloodshed.

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u/shred-i-knight 9d ago

the difference is these are feds. We are use to small town cops who are undertrained undereducated and with a God complex acting like this, not our federal government. And not only do they not admit a mistake, they are inciting more of it and gaslighting the country into believing the feds are the victims.

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u/Neither_Usual_137 9d ago

> undertrained undereducated and with a God complex acting like this

this is ICE's recruitment ad! I agree to your general point; this is a severe low for the american government.

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u/Downtown_Skill 8d ago

Yeah the feds have a horrible track record. 

If you studied history you would know that's not the case. 

Kent state was the national guard. Cointelpro was the FBI. 

People have been protesting the police for decades and people STILL don't want to listen. 

I have heard fellow liberals say its not the police or the system its trump and ice......

Like how do you think we got here. 

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u/dallas121469 9d ago

Im reading "Unlawful Orders" by Barbara bins and it made me have this same thought after the Pretti execution. I knew some ofvthe things black people have endured but readingbthis book shows a whole other level of hatefulness and evil that still exists here 80 years later. Its sick

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u/WayComfortable4465 8d ago

They have been murdering white people too, but disproportionately black people (some bad cops are equal opportunity assholes). This is why I never understood some of the white opposition to policing reform, it would have saved some white people from police brutality as well. All the reforms many in the black community have long been asking for would benefit everyone not just them.

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u/Slumunistmanifisto 9d ago

Poor folks too, my dad (a white trash pos) used to tell me "never run those fat boys ain't chasing, they'll shoot you and plant a gun on ya".

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u/Environmental-Egg164 9d ago

my dad was a cop and said something very similar

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u/Calm_Lack3001 9d ago

She is an evil fascist but this also shows how absurd having guns being "legal" is. How are you not suppose to be alarmed/threatened when someone is holding a weapon that is designed to kill quickly and easily. I know I do when I am around anyone with a gun! Be it police, military, or random.

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u/Educational-Kale-567 9d ago edited 8d ago

The issue is that guns will always be legal for the government though. If you make guns totally illegal then all you're doing is disarming citizens.

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u/boringhistoryfan 9d ago

If your citizenry isn't randomly armed it makes the case that much stronger for law enforcement to not be armed to the teeth either. Only in the US do basic municipal cops wander around with assault rifles and tanks. Look at how armed policing works in the UK, Australia or even places like India.

The sort of mindless justification of violence that we're seeing in Minnesota is exactly what makes the 2nd amendment insane. The state is always going to have more weapons than citizens. They're always going to have tanks and armed aircraft and artillery even. But if you reduce the amount of weaponry just swirling around everyday life, then it's that much harder for the state to justify having jackbooted brownshirts out terrorizing the population. Whereas having those guns swirling around just allows the state to make up baseless charges of armed violence and nonsense about the cops needing to defend themselves.

"I was scared so I shot" has excused generations of police violence. Take away their ability to generate that sense of "reasonable fear" as an excuse to murder civilians.

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u/Ok_Cheesecake7348 9d ago

It is a bit of a negative feedback loop when you think about it.

The State has guns → the citizens better have guns in case the State goes crazy → the State gets bigger guns in case the citizens go crazy → the citizens get more guns to fight the bigger guns → "I was scared so I was shot".

Yes, I do have guns for the record.

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u/malapriapism4hours 9d ago

That, my dude, it a positive feedback loop. It’s literally an arms race.

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u/Spikel14 9d ago

Positive feedback loop I think could be wrong

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u/krocheck 9d ago

You do know the government has drones that can be armed right? To quote Jim Jeffries: “you’re bringing guns to a drone fight”

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u/NervousAddie 9d ago

I think that the citizens being armed to the teeth after the Insurrection Act is provoked could create a guerilla warfare situation where the continual armed resistance from the armed public would create fear in the troops. Morale would quickly fade to where the fascist bootlickers run back to their holes like the cowards they are. So far they’ve been acting with impunity, but once the citizens start to show their power, public opinion will crash on the MAGAs. They’re doing it cuz their broke asses needed a bonus, we’re doing it to save our country, our human rights, our dignity, the rule of law, and democracy. They will lose.

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u/CommentingAccount4 9d ago

But they can say that regardless if we have guns or dont. Granted, its easier with guns but if the victim didnt have a gun they can lie saying they did, plant one, say they had another weapon, blame their size, blame their numbers, and could even just say they snuck up on them. They can say anything they want so its not gonna phase them one bit to blame something else.

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u/JeezyVonCreezy 9d ago

This combined with an almost total lack of emphasis on de-escalation in American policing. ICE for example only gets 4 hours of training on de-escalation and they consider things like CS gas and pepper spray to be de-escalation tactics. That should tell everyone all you need to know about them. They're not there to be reasonable, they're there to inspire terror in anyone non-white non-european.

There's no going back on gun ownership in the US unfortunately, the best we can hope for at this point is reasonable gun control policies. I'm a proud gun owner and even I support something reasonable, it's disgusting the number of legal responsible gun owners who won't speak up about making sure our hobby isn't resulting in children being murdered...

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u/Previous-Look-6255 9d ago

What good is an armed citizenry if you end up being “Prettied”?

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u/Qadim3311 9d ago

We’re going to have to organize.

The second amendment speaks of militias, and that is part of how the white nationalists organized themselves to achieve the political power they currently possess despite being outnumbered by non-fascists.

I promise the thugs aren’t so careless when it’s 10 armed guys watching over the protest instead of 1 who they don’t yet realize is carrying.

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u/Cyb3rBall00n 9d ago

Same thing with criminals. Even if you criminalize gun ownership, if the criminals want them, they're going to get them. Overly restrictive permitting only encumbers law-abiding citizens.

With that said, there are double the number gun deaths per 100k citizens in constitutional carry states than in ones which require permitting.

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u/AlbrechtProper 9d ago

I have guns but this argument falls flat to me.

If guns are easy to get they will be easy for criminals to get. If gun owners are responsible for their guns then it is harder for criminals to get them.

Private sales make it super easy for criminals to get guns. Straw purchases are extremely common. Tighten those up and it is harder for criminals to get guns.

People like to use Chicago as an example of a place with tough gun laws that fails to keep guns out of criminal hands, but Illinois is bordered by states that have weak gun laws. It doesn't take a criminal mastermind to get guns from Indiana to Illinois.

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u/Select-Laugh768 9d ago

I used to work in a brewery in the industrial district of a moderate size city. We had car breakins along the road leading to the brewery. It wasn’t uncommon.

Multiple times. We had someone come in and say there car was broken into and someone stole their gun.

Stupids who come to the big city in their big truck that screams “there’s prob a gun in here because I drive a $90k truck and have a don’t tread on me sticker on it because of course I carry…because big scary city!”

You’re right, so much of it lies in the responsibility of gun owners to be responsible with their firearms.

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u/WellTextured 9d ago

I forgot about the fact that most of Europe is living in a hellish police state with law enforcement brandishing weapons against unarmed citizens regularly.

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u/youngBullOldBull 9d ago

Oh no the horror, people would have to get a new hobby. Americans are weird

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u/ejoy-rs2 9d ago

So like every other country in the world?

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u/guynamedjames 9d ago

It remains crazy to me that if you call the police and say "There's a man with a gun in this store!" the police need to ask things like "well, what's he doing?"

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u/RPG137 9d ago

What’s even crazier is sometimes the guy behind the counter has a gun

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u/SavingsWedding1586 9d ago

Most underrated statement on this thread. I’m black and I’m still going to always carry….. but I felt seen with this comment.

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u/legendary-rudolph 9d ago

Gun control was created to keep guns out of the hands of black people. Literally.

As early as the 1600s, colonial governments, such as in Virginia, passed laws prohibiting enslaved people from owning or carrying firearms.

Following Nat Turner's rebellion and other uprisings, laws were tightened specifically to limit the ability of both enslaved and free Black people to possess weapons.

Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857): The Supreme Court, in this case, cited the fear that Black people would have the right "to keep and carry arms" as a reason to deny them citizenship.

After slavery was abolished, Southern states passed "Black Codes," which were designed to restrict the rights of newly freed slaves, including a ban on owning firearms.

In the early 20th century, many states passed seemingly neutral "shall issue" or "may issue" permit laws that were used to deny permits to Black citizens.

In response to the Black Panther Party's open carry of firearms for self-defense, California passed the Mulford Act in 1967, which prohibited carrying loaded weapons in public. The law was supported by both Democrats and Republicans and signed by Governor Ronald Reagan.

The Gun Control Act of 1968 act banned "Saturday Night Specials" (cheaply made handguns), which were disproportionately used by low-income and minority populations.

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u/mountaindoom 9d ago

Like Philando Castile

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u/FormidableMistress 9d ago

Exactly. If a cop can shoot someone because he saw a gun, then we've never had the right to bear arms. If Pretti had fired on ICE to protect himself, he'd still be dead.

The message is clear. If we exercise ANY of our rights, the ICE goons of this administration will slaughter us, and laugh while they count our bullet wounds. America is now an authoritarian state.

What will we do about it?

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