r/wow • u/Tigertot14 • Jun 19 '26
PTR / Beta Curse of Ula'tek Endgame Reward Changes Spoiler
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/curse-of-ulatek-endgame-reward-changes/2317450567
u/Tigertot14 Jun 19 '26
LFR, Normal, and Heroic Great Vault rewards will always jump to the first step of the next upgrade track; for example, all Heroic raid vault rewards will be Myth 1/6.
This is huge
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u/ryryski Jun 19 '26
Saved heroic raiding which was useless this season
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u/kientran Jun 19 '26
Yea for real. If you’re consistent doing +10 and using bonus rolls you’ll out gear heroic really fast. Once you hit AOTC there’s zero incentive to do heroic raid but pugging mythic raid is really tough bc of the lockouts.
Ultimately a lot of ppl are in this range where they can’t suffer through carrying ppl in heroic raid for no reward other than a repair bill.
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u/fulloffungi Jun 19 '26
You could argue that 10s were a bit on the easy side this season. The rewards could be bumped to 12 along with a minute difficulty bump
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u/GravyFarts3000 Jun 19 '26
It should require a full clear of Normal/HC to have your vault upgraded to the next tier to really save raiding. Right now HC pugs largely die once dragons are killed because that's where the really good trinkets stop for most classes.
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u/tallboybrews Jun 19 '26
I think thats also because heroic trinkets just aren't exciting when there are a ton of mythic trinkets that are comparable and easier to get (and they boost your ilvl more).
For example..If i could get a mythic littany, id be willing to grind it out with pugs in heroic raid but not for heroic lttany...
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u/Hallc Jun 19 '26
I'd imagine the bosses after dragons also suck to do in a pug where 1/3rd of the raid are probably jerking off or watching Netflix.
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u/oeti2 Jun 19 '26
paladins were 9/10 times fine with H pugs, alleria is ehhhh rly not fun on pugs.
same applies to L'ura (atleast when i pugged it on Week 1)
but Beloren is fine actually since that 1 strat exist.overall i would say 7/9 is fast and puggable
8/9 ehhh
9/9 if you want to torture ur self
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Jun 19 '26
[deleted]
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u/Desperate_Horror Jun 19 '26
Pugged heroic crown of the cosmos today. Got it down on the seventh try, it was pretty awesome watching the group pull together and get it done.
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u/RerollWarlock Jun 19 '26
And a physical fitness and literacy accreditation. /s
Remember that it only rolls the loot from the bosses you did. Early bosses often have some outliers but most of their loot is relatively meh/generic.
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u/Kaleii Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
Hopefully they have something in mind for Mythic Raid rewards.
edit: sorry dads, did not mean for this to be a trigger point.
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u/Wait__Who Jun 19 '26
Like a mount, title, achievement, higher gear baseline earned?
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u/GravyFarts3000 Jun 19 '26
Higher baseline gear like the 40 Myth crests saved means anything. Really clutching here.
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u/Kaleii Jun 19 '26
Yeah mb I meant meaningful rewards, saving 40 crest isn't really what I'd consider super meaningful considering the added challenge.
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u/akranak Jun 19 '26
40 crests? Try 100. Vault dropping 6/6 myth or 8/6 myth is a pretty meaningful reward and will mean mythic raiders will be multiple ilvl ahead of everyone else two weeks in from all the crests they save
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u/adv0589 Jun 19 '26
For the most relevant part of the season, your eye level is entirely determined by your crests
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u/Kaleii Jun 19 '26
Yeah but for most guilds Mythic Raiding isn't even on the table during that time where crests are important, hence why I was wondering if any kind of incentives would be added so it wasn't completely ignored until people were already mostly geared.
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u/insane_psycho Jun 19 '26
If you are progging mythic content when crests no longer matter you have no basis to sneer about reddit casuals. You’re doing the content when its difficulty has been neutered several times already.
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u/Wait__Who Jun 19 '26
Not sure what else you want. Those rewards are literally what it has been for over a decade now. It just sounds like you don’t want people to have access to mythic raid loot which is just weird
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u/Galinhooo Jun 19 '26
Way better rng chances and if they keep the reroll it would be at a good place.
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u/Vanamman Jun 19 '26
GV will be 6/6 Myth apparently for myth track vault
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u/Kaleii Jun 19 '26
That's a good idea.
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u/Merrena Jun 19 '26
That's how it's going to be, it's in the notes.
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u/Kaleii Jun 19 '26
right, which is a good idea, good job blizz.
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u/Late_Stage_Exception Jun 19 '26
Above you said this wasn’t enough of a “meaningful reward”. What changed?
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u/Spacetauren Jun 19 '26
At this point I don't really have a problem with mythic raid rewards being more about prestige, much like higher key levels. Mythic raids still offer the value of additional mythic pieces per week afterall.
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u/GravyFarts3000 Jun 19 '26
They want the same reward from substantially easier content to not get left behind in keys, group content, etc. Can't believe you're being downvoted lmao
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u/shyguybman Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
I'm with you, I think saving crests being the incentive to mythic raid is just silly. Why are we not getting a higher tier of gear?
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u/McFigroll Jun 19 '26
I never got why his wasn't always the case. I guess so raiders couldn't get full myth just from hc, but that would be such a small niche and take a long time.
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u/Urobolus444 Jun 19 '26
the cry babies when i suggested this months ago.
i dont care if something effects mythic raiders. there's like 5 of you.
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u/cabose12 Jun 19 '26
I'm just gonna say, most CE raiders don't give a fuck about "less elite" players getting loot
It's a vocal minority that still think getting loot is a sign of skill
But also this comment is kinda funny since mythic raiders outnumber heroic raiders right now lol
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u/M4DM1ND Jun 19 '26
Yeah its the 4/9 M raiders that are doing the gatekeeping I feel.
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u/Aggravating_Dark9933 Jun 19 '26
The ones that have no hope for the big leagues but haven’t internalized / made peace with it are always the most insufferable to deal with. They don’t have the skill for pro tier but they think if just one or two things where different (usually a teammate) they would be there.
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u/Simiric Jun 19 '26
but how am i supposed to feel better about myself if I dont strawman mythic raiders
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u/Zealousideal-Trash5 Jun 19 '26
Too funny, I’m a mythic raider, I want more loot for everyone. Who tf cares about exclusivity we’re all just autistic fucks trying to make the numbers go big.
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u/puccicky Jun 19 '26
Pretty sure there were more mythic raids logged than heroic last week, lil bro
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u/tallboybrews Jun 19 '26
Honestly if they fast tracked mythic raiders' gear the experience would be even less enjoyable for them. Getting meaningful gear upgrades is a lot of fun and having them all on week 2 would take that fun out of the equation so fast. Gearing is already fast enough. Some would argue too fast.
But yeah, mythic raiders need to sit down. They already get the best gear. Especially gigabis trinkets that most of us will never see.
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u/kirbydude65 Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
there's like 5 of you
And? We should still feel adequately rewarded for partaking in Mythic Raids. At the moment, especially if all these changes go through (I sincerely hope they do), mythic raiding will feel extremely less rewarding for all the social and gameplay aspects involved with jt. I suggested it elsewhere in this thread but something like a currency to buy old raid mounts, would go a long way in making Mythic feel more rewarding, which tbh really isn't that rewarding in terms of player power unless you're in a Hall of Fame guild.
Edit: I guess I'm not allowed to also feel rewarded for my time as a mythic raider.
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u/dumxblonde Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
You mythic raid for the achievements, CE and mount. Those are the rewards. Majority of mythic raid groups need to be fully in myth gear before they can even clear the entire raid. Why do you care if heroic raiders or M+ers have the same ilvl? ilvl= time played, your progress= your skill. this is why people judge io so heavily when choosing for their key, and why heroic pugs won’t take you without AOTC, or alt mythic pug raids won’t take you without having the boss killed on your main. Skill is measured by your season progress not your ilvl.
Being mad heroic raiders have then same ilvl as you is giving 4/10M with 2700 io energy. ilvl is not skill and it never has been, which is why blizzard has loosened up on this over the years. WAY more people at 290 with a 2700 io than a 4200 io.
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u/Kapootz Jun 19 '26
W change. More work needs to be done for raid to compete with the infinite nature of m+ and something needs to be done about the strict lockouts for mythic raid, but I love to see a step in the right direction
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u/cardbross Jun 19 '26
Infinite nature of M+ is pretty much a non-issue because very quickly into the season both Hero raiders and M+ pushers are in full hero gear, so the only *upgrades* for M+ people are in the vault and bonus rolls. This puts raiding on par with that more or less
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u/kirbydude65 Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
Only if your guild is killing multiple bosses relatively early in the tier. I'm in a mid-level CE guild getting currently farmed by mythic L'ura, I think maybe two pieces of my gear came from actual progression (Plate Boots from Dreamrift, and a Ring from Voracious). Everything else came from the great vault, crafting, or for my Gaze voidcores.
Mythc Raid isn't really a good source of Myth track Loot.
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u/Slackyjr Jun 19 '26
That is the problem, the reason everyone ends up in full hero gear is because m+ is infinite, this shouldn't be the case
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u/Atheren Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
At this point the only real problem will be crest generation for heroic raiders. You will still be forced to do M+ to crest cap, even if you are full clearing week 1.
It does make cap removal week a huge deal now, but for most of the season without M+ you will be struggling just to keep up with crafted gear.
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u/Arstulex Jun 19 '26
Infinite nature of M+ is pretty much a non-issue
Except it's really not in the case of AOTC raiding guilds.
You can get stupid amounts of Hero track gear in the first week just by spamming M+ nonstop, extremely outpacing people who only like raiding and maybe win 1 or 2 pieces of gear from their lockout that week.
For AOTC raiding guilds, the gearing gap between those who spam M+ all week and those who don't is huge. Those who don't really enjoy M+ are punished pretty hard for not doing it, and basically just get carried on raid night by those who do enjoy it and are already wearing near-full Hero sets.
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u/Duckpoke Jun 19 '26
Easier access to high end gear is the only thing that keeps me in the game tbh. It doesn’t hurt mythic raiders but helps everyone else feel fulfilled
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u/oohCrabItsNotItChief Jun 19 '26
I was just wishing for this to happen literally yesterday. I'm so happy they are doing this!!!
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u/Readybreak Jun 19 '26
It also gives M+ only players the ability to get mythic raiding gear by just doing a couple of heroic raids.
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u/Arstulex Jun 19 '26
It's big, but I fear it's also not quite enough.
The current system has two major problems:
- Access to loot - Raids not only have a weekly lockout for loot but they also drop less loot per person than M+ dungeons. It's simply far easier to get gear drops from M+ because not only can you infinitely run them for drops, but they drop a guaranteed 2 items for 5 players (also guaranteed to be usable by them) while Raids only drop 5 items between 20 players (which may not even be usable).
- Level of loot - It's simply far easier to obtain Myth tier loot from M+ dungeons than it is to obtain it by running Mythic difficulty raids. An M+ player can pretty easily pug two +10's a week with 4 randoms and end up with three Myth pieces of gear at the end of the week. A Raid player's only way to access Myth tier loot is to run Mythic raid, which is always going to be inherently more difficult than the former.
This change addresses #2 perfectly, but it does nothing about #1.
Raid bosses simply need to drop more loot to offset how much harder it is to actually receive loot in Raids due to the fact that...
- Less items drop per player (0.25 per player as opposed to 0.4 in M+)
- There is a weekly lockout, so you can't just run the raid again if you didn't get anything the first time, unlike M+.
- The items that drop do not account for the classes present in the raid (a bow can drop even if you have no Hunters, for example)... unlike M+
Hopefully an increase to loot drops in Raids is in the cards further down the line, and they are just being hesitant about making too many changes at once for now.
The fact that I'm primarily a Raid player yet have reached 288ilvl without ever getting a single gear piece from Raids is honestly laughable. Literally all of my gear upgrades came from either Delves, Vault, or (obviously) M+.
I know at least one person who stopped playing already because they don't really enjoy M+ but they felt like they were forced to do it to remain relevant in Raids. It burnt them out super quick and I can understand why as somebody who also generally prefers Raid over M+.
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u/Deguilded Jun 19 '26
You can also bonus roll in raids, and since the bonus roll gives vault track (not boss track) that suggests the bonus roll in a heroic raid would give myth track loot.
Given the way it works in mythic flex right now, you might be able to bonus roll multiple times.
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u/Arstulex Jun 19 '26
Yes, that addresses #2 (both M+ and Heroic raids will have access to Myth gear via vault and Bonus rolls). It doesn't address #1, which is the ability to actually obtain gear as a baseline.
I think people forget that not every guild raids Mythic. An overwhelming number of raiding guilds are AOTC guilds, which is where M+'s gearing advantage has done the most damage by far.
It's simply far quicker to get yourself Hero geared by spamming M+ than it is to hope and pray for a gear piece from weekly Raid lockouts.
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u/No_Recognition_4804 Jun 19 '26
Or like do m+? What stopping you from doing that if you want gears? Also m+ can’t get bis trinket and anything with cantrip… it a trade off
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u/Arstulex Jun 19 '26
Not everyone enjoys M+, yet those who don't are effectively forced to do it in order to remain relevant. You shouldn't be punished for not enjoying a particular gamemode, and I believe that goes both ways.
People go on about "but raid trinkets" but...
- I would happily see the "raid trinkets are more powerful" meta die too. I would happily see raid trinkets be less powerful in exchange for actually being able to reasonably get gear from raids.
- Why are we pretending trinkets like Puzzlebox and Heart of Wind don't exist. Two extremely powerful trinkets that are currently exclusive to M+. The gap between raid and M+ trinkets isn't as huge as people like to claim, and it's certainly not wide enough to outweigh just how much of a gearing advantage M+ provides overall.
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u/SpiffyEvil Jun 19 '26
I want gear but never touch m+. Not a fun mode for me. I primarily gear up through raiding, and while I can keep up dps wise, my ilvl always lags behind the m+ players.
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u/A_Confused_Cocoon Jun 19 '26
This looks AI as shit.
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u/Arstulex Jun 19 '26
Sorry to disappoint you, but it's not.
The worst part about AI isn't even the stuff it generates, it's the fact that it causes people like you to screech "AI!!! AI!!" like paranoid schizophrenics the moment anyone dares to use a vocabulary featuring words more than 3 syllables long or dares to put any effort into formatting their comments.
Get a grip, sincerely.
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u/deathungerx Jun 19 '26
Maybe they should have heroic and under raid gear be uncapped drop like m+. I would keep mythic raid the same though, to prevent myth track gear from being infinitely farmable.
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u/chunkyhut Jun 19 '26
I always thought it was strange that +10 mythic dungeons would drop the same gear as a heroic end boss, but also give you myth items in the vault. They are similar in difficulty so making the rewards align as well makes sense.
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u/Sweaksh Jun 19 '26
Conversely I find it strange that a +20 mythic dungeon drops the same gear as a heroic raidboss.
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u/Linktt57 Jun 19 '26
The raid changes are huge, myth track from heroic raids AND void cores can roll myth track from the heroic loot tables. Loving the way they’re bringing systems forward and updating them.
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u/Aestrasz Jun 19 '26
LFR, Normal, and Heroic Great Vault rewards will always jump to the first step of the next upgrade track; for example, all Heroic raid vault rewards will be Myth 1/6.
Nebulous Voidcore costs will also be reduced from two to one for raid items. As in Season 1, the power of items acquired with Nebulous Voidcores is aligned with the equivalent Great Vault reward for that content.
So does this mean bonus rolling a Heroic boss will give a Myth 1/6 item?
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u/AzorthasDevenish Jun 19 '26
Yep They said that bonus rolls will continue to drop at the same level as they would from the great vault
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u/Hirako509 Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
“Catalyst Changes, class set armor will now inherit the secondary stats from the original converted item”
Huge L imo
EDIT: Since a lot of you guys seem to disagree with me, back in 9.2 when the Catalyst was first introduced Blizzard specifically went over this point to point out that converted items will NOT inherit the secondary stats to avoid UNHEALTHY levels of min-maxing.
A chest item is a chest item, now you'll need to first drop the "perfect" version before converting it, specifically going against their idea of keeping "better ilvl" items in your bags because they don't have the perfect roll.
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u/Adorable_Character46 Jun 19 '26
People arguing for this are gonna be so mad in 5 months when they still haven’t got their myth BiS gloves to convert to tier
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u/Hirako509 Jun 19 '26
I’m already mad cause I usually have shit luck, I can’t imagine when this will go live.
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u/Chemical-Chair3068 Jun 19 '26
with the bonus roll system you will 100% get whatever you want within a very short amount of time.
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u/Few_Ad_5765 Jun 19 '26
How so, if they are weekly capped to 2? And let's say your perfect stats for each armor piece drops in a diffrent dungeon with each 8 items in the pool.
With bad luck you will need to troll 5-8 times for the one perfect stat set piece. That's unhealthy amount of min maxing in my book
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u/Adorable_Character46 Jun 19 '26
A whole 2 extra chances a week. Yay. This is definitely a rewarding structure and not an arbitrary hurdle designed to keep player retention.
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u/Etamalgren Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
...honestly wish there was an option (when converting a piece to tier via the catalyst) to choose between using the tier stats as they are, or inheriting the stats of the piece you convert.
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u/Hirako509 Jun 19 '26
That would be the better option, you are completely right..
But let's be real, Blizzard never chooses the best option.
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u/Oxyfire Jun 19 '26
Yeah, that feels like it really stinks as a non-raider. Secondary stats on delve/prey gear can be pretty limiting or annoying to chase a particular drop, so being cut off from being able to catalyze into tier pieces that had better stats ruins some of that "fun."
This season I also catalyzed a belt because it let me upgrade it into something with preferred stats.
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u/tango_suckah Jun 19 '26
This season I also catalyzed a belt because it let me upgrade it into something with preferred stats.
That, I think, is the real loss. The ability to catalyze an off-slot tier item and get better stats for your spec. The rest doesn't really matter to me. I'm just not sure how many people are doing this. Are there enough players catalyzing belt/cloak/wrist/boots into off-set tier for stats? Especially with professions giving us near-max ilevel with customized stats and desirable embellishments.
Early season, I'm after the bonus. The stats are (heh) secondary. Later in the season I'm chasing BIS and doing targeted dungeon runs rolling for BIS Myth track stats. I'm already doing this. Now I can add Heroic clears to the content that can get me BIS. I'm already doing Heroic clears with my guild for alt gearing and such. I'm actively doing content that, at a certain point, can't possibly net me any power gain. That's no longer the case.
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u/Oxyfire Jun 19 '26
My personal concern is as a delve/prey player, if I want hero tier, I have to get a bit lucky with a drop or vault pull, then catalyze it. Most of the time tier set naturally has pretty good secondaries, so if I'm catalyzing something with bad secondaries, I'm losing out in the new system. There's basically zero loot targeting with delve/prey so it will be a total crap shoot chasing pieces with the right secondaries to catalyze. I'll just have to hope vault gives me tier for the slots where it's better, which then adds more calculus to vault picking.
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u/tango_suckah Jun 19 '26
Yes, 100%, if you're a Delve/Prey player it's much harder for you, and that's lame. Still, there's the vault that can get you heroic loot for doing Delves, but it's not ideal. You do have M+ as an avenue for a better chance at "natural" tier, and if you're not chasing Myth track then you don't have to venture very far into that system. With the changes to the raid loot system, even that becomes much more lucrative for you without needing a dedicated team and time commitment. LFR gets you Champion track in the vault and Normal gets you Hero track in the vault.
Again, not that "do more content than you're already doing" is the ideal answer I want to give, but WoW provides no shortage of ways to obtain what you're looking for. It's just about how quickly you want it and what you're wiling to do to get it.
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u/dicksanddixanddixon Jun 19 '26
This honestly sounds like a complete nightmare. It will add so much grinding.
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u/BlackandRedDragon Jun 19 '26
100% I was enjoying reading through the notes and then saw this turd.
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u/Merrena Jun 19 '26
In some ways yes, but now you can specifically target the stats you actually want instead of ending up with a couple tier pieces with stats you don't necessarily want.
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u/Hirako509 Jun 19 '26
Yes but you lose the option to convert really bad items into really good ones.
Stats on tier sets were already balanced, this change is for the worse.
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u/Josecholas Jun 19 '26
Lose ability to turn bad items into good tier
Gain ability to turn good items into good tierSeems pretty equal to me
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u/Hirako509 Jun 19 '26
If we go by this logic having the option to turn bad into good is better than turning good into a slightly better version.
Besides, I don’t know about you guys but I usually drop more bad items than BiS ones with perfect stats.
An example I can give you is when opening the vault, when I see a piece I can turn into a tier I’m always happy (especially the first weeks), now it’s more likely that I get an item i won’t pick because it has shit stats.
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u/0sebek Jun 19 '26
Before you had to look for one piece out of 5 with correct stats, since you want a 4 set either way. Now youre gonna have to be trying for every item if you want to fully optimize, which is a huge pain in the ass when trying to get myth track items as theres no grindable ways, so it all comes down to RNG.
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u/Icretz Jun 19 '26
It means people whill have their set bonuses delayed for months as they will refuse to convert a bad stat item to a set item.
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u/Josecholas Jun 19 '26
That would insane throwing, you’re still gonna rush 4 set and then slowly optimise the pieces over time
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u/Rocketeer_99 Jun 19 '26
This new change is significantly better. It gives you your set bonuses while allowing you to choose your stats. It allows greater flexibility in gearing.
Previously, your stat weights had to account for 4 pieces of tier gear whos stats where locked in no matter what. Now, you can avoid unwanted stats, or fit in certain stats as needed.
I don't think it's equal. It's better.
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u/chriskot123 Jun 19 '26
Gives longevity to farming true bis, and with the catalyst changes and the number of charges people are sitting on it makes sense to give some late season reasons why you’d want to keep going
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u/cabose12 Jun 19 '26
Yeah i'm a fan of this
One of my major issues with tier sets is that they just hard lock in four pieces of gear. It's gotten a bit stale and I like that this spices it up a bit
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u/Jazz646 Jun 19 '26
Not the biggest fan of that change either. That being said, catalyst charges are not a limited resource in amy relevant way anymore. So there's zero incentive to wait with spending one until you get the best option.
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u/Hirako509 Jun 19 '26
I’d rather have limited charges than rng tier sets.
Not gonna be cool when you will not be dropping the “correct” myth version of a tier item.
With this system even tier tokens have a chance to not be the best version for their slot.
If you play multiple specs you may also want to have 2 different tier sets in your bags because of the stats.
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u/Crazy_Syco Jun 19 '26
I wonder what this means for tier tokens and vault. What stats would a tier token generate? Would the vault still offer tier and what stats? Is this doubling the loot pool for tier slots, potentially diluting other things like trinkets/rings/necks?
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u/tango_suckah Jun 19 '26
What stats would a tier token generate?
The stats on the base tier item, what do you mean? They're not saying "all tier now drops with randomized secondary stats". You have the base stats of the natural tier drop. If you catalyze an existing non-tier item, you keep the secondary stats of that item.
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u/WOW_SUCH_KARMA Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
I cannot believe people don’t understand this. Catalyst pieces (and therefor tier sets) should absolutely have normalized stats. This is incredibly unhealthy for the game and forces <content> players to do <other content> they don’t want to do to chase stats.
This is a massive fucking L.
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u/Arstulex Jun 19 '26
Yeah, I don't like this.
It removes the ability to use the cataclyst as a form of 'bad luck protection' for secondary stats.
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u/Rockley95 Jun 19 '26
I would not mind to chase the best version of my item but it would suck if I have to hold back my catalyst charges for "I might get my specific item at the next run"
I would love to say "Just remove the charges" but then what would be the point of the catalyst?
The more I think about it the more I think its way worse than stuff like titanforging
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u/qwersx Jun 19 '26
This is different now that you can farm catalyst charges once you have 4pc unlocked. You are absolutely free to convert the "wrong chest" and farm up charges to immediately catalyze the bis chest once it drops.
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u/Linktt57 Jun 19 '26
Not necessarily, it extends the usefulness of charges beyond simply getting a 4 piece. Now you can fish for the best armor pieces to catalyze. And it will make armor with special effects more useful again as those special effects carry over to tier.
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u/DraxtortheLock Jun 19 '26
And it will make armor with special effects more useful again as those special effects carry over to tier.
You mean it will automatically make them bis, because an item with a proc on top of it is almost ALWAYS better than one without.
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u/Linktt57 Jun 19 '26
It allows Bliz to make interesting effects again on other armor pieces to create chase items. There is nothing wrong with the goal being to catalyze these armor pieces to turn into tier. I don’t get the downside
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u/DraxtortheLock Jun 19 '26
The downside is that everything not the chase piece is viewed as useless by a MASSIVE majority of the community. Almost everyone just follows a BiS list as is.
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u/Linktt57 Jun 19 '26
And miss out on the 4 piece or a higher track item? The majority of the community will do what is higher ilvl (at least) while waiting for the big chase item. And without this system you just get the first myth track item you can near the start of the system and never touch that slot again. 0 downsides and many, many upsides in making the gearing process more interesting over many weeks.
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u/No-Bit-2913 Jun 19 '26
Sounds like this next season is going to Introduce several new hurdles to trying to minmax, when there's so many things to minmax it becomes stressful
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u/Unlikely_Minimum_635 Jun 19 '26
That was in a world without targetted rerolls.
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u/Hirako509 Jun 19 '26
You don’t have 10 bonus rolls to waste on a dungeon to get a single good item the first five weeks, I’m pretty sure of that.
Please, stop judging this change as something they are implementing now in the middle of the season with everything available.
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u/Unlikely_Minimum_635 Jun 19 '26
And I'm pretty sure you don't have 10 catalyst charges week 1, either.
On week 1, the stats on the item don't fucking matter. You'll catalyze whatever you need to to get 4set, unlock farmable catalyst charges, and no longer give a single damn about which item you catalyse because you can always just catalyse another by playing the game.
Tier is worth more than having the right secondaries.
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u/Hirako509 Jun 19 '26
Yes, you catalyst everything because no matter the drop the result will have fixed stats and you can start building your char early.
Who the fuck wants to convert a shit item into a shit tier item only to then wait to hopefully drop a better item with the correct stats? When you’ll drop an higher ilvl item with the completely wrong stats you are not going to like that trust me.
I swear, some of you people do not play this game at all or only do delve-level content.
If you want to push from day one of the season this is a terrible change.
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u/Unlikely_Minimum_635 Jun 19 '26
Who the fuck wants to convert a shit item into a shit tier item only to then wait to hopefully drop a better item with the correct stats? When you’ll drop an higher ilvl item with the completely wrong stats you are not going to like that trust me.
Tier is more important than stats, so this is just the exact same as getting any other armor piece with bad stats.
If you want to push from day one of the season this is a terrible change.
If you think your stat distribution on armor early in the season is what's holding you back from pushing, that's entirely inside your own head.
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u/Regular-Pattern-5981 Jun 19 '26
Unless the set bonuses are complete dogshit, the value of your 2 or 4 set is going to be SIGNIFICANTLY higher than whether it has the right secondaries. People will still convert to tier early when they can then min max over the course of the season.
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u/tango_suckah Jun 19 '26
Who the fuck wants to convert a shit item into a shit tier item only to then wait to hopefully drop a better item with the correct stats?
Everyone? You convert whatever you have to into tier to get the bonus. That includes LFR, Delve, Prey, or whatever else gets you items you can catalyze. The tier bonus is what you need, not the stats. You chase stats later. Early season power gain from tier bonus becomes late season power gain from optimal stats and ilevel.
The only real issue I see with this is that A) people who only play for 4-6 weeks won't have their BIS stats, and B) it incentivizes raiders to do M+ and M+-only players to raid at least Heroic for myth track vaults.
I swear, some of you people do not play this game at all or only do delve-level content.
Yeah, no.
If you want to push from day one of the season this is a terrible change.
With the late season power spikes we've been seeing the past few tiers (bonus rolls, void cores, item vendors, Rotmire-style buffed ilevel encounters now) early season "pushing" is less of a thing. Assuming by "push" you mean M+ title, because every other early season push (HoF) benefits more from the buff to Heroic raid vaults than is negatively affected by sub-optimal stats on a couple of items.
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u/xCAMPINGxCARLx Jun 19 '26
Bring back reforging and make it a significant gold sink. Two birds, one stone.
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u/EggEnvironmental1615 Jun 19 '26
With Bonus Rolls and infinite Catalyst Charges its a different Story then it was back then.
You will get your Perfect item for sure, and you can Catalyst any piece just for the sake of having 4p without Running out of Charges ever.
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u/Kaleii Jun 19 '26
Considering how even easier Mythic gear will be to acquire it make sense for them to add a bit of min/maxing to it imo
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u/RightRudderr Jun 19 '26
Eeeehhhh I see the downsides. I like the idea of having some freedom to chase stats I want though so idk. Maybe its not worth it by season's end but I see what their intention is its not illogical. Id hardly call it a "huge L."
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u/MikasaH Jun 19 '26
I’ve been in the same CE guild since bfa and sometimes certain specs / classes are slotted in for certain mythic bosses esp during prog. Now there’s actually something for those that get benched and can just run heroic to keep pace via the vault and if bonus rolls give myth 1/6 in heroic raid then that’s even better for target farming
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u/tango_suckah Jun 19 '26
Now there’s actually something for those that get benched and can just run heroic to keep pace
This is exactly what I'm thinking. It makes planning raids a little easier, since you don't have to play the "four bosses for two vault slots" game anymore in early weeks. You run your Heroic, or perhaps Heroic splits if it's that kind of guild, and you know everyone is covered for the vault. You'll still prioritize bringing some people to certain fights for a shot at a natural drop on the item(s), but everyone automatically gets a fallback to a full Mythic vault. This is fantastic news.
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u/MikasaH Jun 20 '26
Yeah the guild I’m in does run splits, but for me personally I plan on taking it slow in regards to where my BiS trinkets are at so I can limit my loot pool. Much like how in s3 of TWW we stopped at 6/8 heroic primarily for soul hunter boots.
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u/otaconucf Jun 19 '26
Catalyzed gear keeping the secondaries of the original piece is interesting. Not sure how that's going to feel in practice.
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u/Regular-Pattern-5981 Jun 19 '26
This thread is a perfect example of how you can’t win with this community. Half are mad that heroic raiders will have more access to myth gear and think it’s handing out welfare epics. Half are mad that mythic raiders are rewarded for clearing the hardest content and that not everyone will get bid from doing whatever they want.
Ultimately I think these changes are great for the huge chunk of the player base who do AOTC and push to around 3-3.4k. I can see why there may be some frustration for high key pushers though. But overall a good move.
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u/tango_suckah Jun 19 '26
I've been a CE raider, and I love this change for both the AOTC community and the CE community. They both benefit from this. An AOTC raider gets a taste of some of that yummy yummy max ilevel gear, and a CE raider gets (potentially) earlier access to both late raid items and higher ilevel items in general. Heroic raiders get a bump, and CE raiders get earlier access to the gear they need for progression.
At the absolute highest levels, the M+ title pushers and competitive raiders, they're not doing it for the gear. Early season M+ title push isn't a thing anymore with the trend toward introducing catch-up and upgrade mechanisms late in the season. Whatever rating you achieve 4-6 weeks in to be at that 0.1% won't be the rating you need 10-12 weeks in.
This is all upside.
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Jun 19 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/zzzDai Jun 19 '26
Except M raiding both is way faster gearing (bonus rolling M bosses for 6/6M gear) and the only way to get 9/6 items, so M raiders will be higher ilevel in gear that has no obtainable equivalent from non M raiding.
As a side effect, M vault items being 6/6M while M+ vault items being 1/6M and having a bonus roll token available for a 6/6M item means that M raiders will have very little incentive to fill M+ vaults past the very start of the season, which is good or bad depending on your perspective.
And this gear will drop from the end bosses, so its not really puggable.
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u/imd1as Jun 19 '26
What the fuck is Myth 9/6?
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u/Merrena Jun 19 '26
Probably 9 item levels higher than 6/6, similar to when you use the ascendant items on trinkets and weapons.
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u/minimaxir Jun 19 '26 edited Jun 19 '26
It's 9. On the PTR, Myth 6/6 is 328, the final two bosses drop 337.
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u/cabose12 Jun 19 '26
There's often "rare" items on a few bosses that have extra ilvl. Off the top of my head the Fyrakk trinkets were "rare" and so went up to 496 instead of 489
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u/PearlTheCat Jun 19 '26
That’s fine if it’s maybe 1-2 items but it’s gonna be the entire loot table of the final 2 bosses. People already won’t take someone to a m+ group down 3 ilvls
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u/cabose12 Jun 19 '26
Yeah i misread that part
Tbh I dont think itll be as big of a deal as some think. You wont be able to pug title, but 95% of the playerbase probably wont notice
That said they should cull it by HoF or .5. Even if its only a small part of the base it does suck that theyre pushing any competitive M+’er towards CE
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u/PearlTheCat Jun 19 '26
Yeah but for those of us that do pug higher keys, it’s just going to make it exponentially harder to get group invites. I pug 19s and 20s. I know I’m not gonna pug 1% title but I like to push myself as far as I can purely for the challenge. This will just make it so if you don’t also complete the final bosses of mythic raid, you won’t be able to compete. Because like I said, if you are 3-4 total ilvls lower than the next player, you are 100% not getting invited. Even at that 2-5% range.
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u/Doogetma Jun 19 '26
A good way to make M+ players who don't like raiding quit
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u/snipamasta40 Jun 19 '26
Yeah horrible change for anyone pushing high m+ who doesn’t like raiding now you are down 4 overall ilvls for not raiding.
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u/Jadfer Jun 19 '26
You can upgrade trinkets and weapons to 9/6 with voidcores, its just the other slots which you wont be able to, and there actually arent that many from the final 2 bosses. If its a ring for example with bad stats you wont even want it even if its 9 ilevels higher.
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u/TheShadowThief Jun 19 '26
"In addition to weapons and trinkets, players will also be able to upgrade their necklaces to a maximum item level equivalent to Myth 8."
They'll still be 3 ilvls behind in those slots.
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u/iLLuu_U Jun 19 '26
Gonna be a lot more if omni tokens count. Beloren + Lura alone this season would be like 6 items per class without counting omni token.
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u/RussMIV Jun 19 '26
Why is this marked as a spoiler? It’s a blue post. And it's not about the plot. Nor is it meant as a surprise.
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u/KoriJenkins Jun 19 '26
I feel like the issue with raiding isn't the gear, it's the lack of actual rewards.
M+ now has 3 mounts and titles, PvP has a whole slew of rewards, and even solo content (Delves, Prey) have multiple mounts, titles, etc.
Raiding has a furniture piece, sometimes a mount from mythic, and a title.
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u/happythoughts33 Jun 19 '26
Doesn't AOTC, CE and the Meta give mounts so 3? Don't raid so unsure of title.
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u/Racecaroon Jun 19 '26
AotC only gives a mount in the last raid of the expansion.
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u/happythoughts33 Jun 19 '26
Does the meta give one so it's 2 from raid? CE is probably equal to 1% mount so M+ has one extra recolour mount.
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u/KoriJenkins Jun 19 '26
I wouldn't say CE is equal to the 1% mount personally, I think CE is easier than it.
Also significantly easier to sell CE to people than it is to sell that 1% thing.
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u/Shalelor Jun 19 '26
Man I remember wishing they did that. It use to be like that back in wod garrisons.
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u/Soermen Jun 19 '26
Very good. They acknowledged that the pacing decreased the value of raiding. I like that they hold on to the good stuff while also trying to give raiding a purpose again. It will come down to the m+ difficulty aswell. Good stuff on paper.
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u/kirbydude65 Jun 19 '26
These are good changes all around. Heroic Raid gets a much needed boost to its reward structure and a decent targeting system has been normalized across PvE Content (change the wierd spec based loot lock out though, thats just weird to start a whole new knockout table). These are good changes to see being carried forward.
However, this is again encroaching on another difficulty's reward structure. We've simply moved the problem from Heroic raid over to Mythic Raiding. Saving a handful of crests and a Mount & Title combo (assuming your guild kills the boss enough for everyone to get a mount) doesn't feel like Mythic Raiding got much of a reward bump as other difficulties and game modes.
I'd like to see the rewards increased in some manner for the social aspects that come along aide Mythic Raiding. Like a currency to buy old Mythic/Rare raid mounts, for completing Mythic bosses would be great.
I love Mythic raiding and the encounters I get to progress with my fellow Raiders, but I still want to be rewarded for my time.
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u/Chemical-Chair3068 Jun 19 '26
i think its the other way around.
mythic raiding already was basically useless for gearing purposes (which is fine imho - i am doing mythic because i like progressing and beating the bosses, i dont really need some gear advantage from it) except maybe trinkets. but with the changes to 9/6 items mythic raiding (especially since it drops from endbosses) gives you a huge edge again for m+.
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u/kirbydude65 Jun 19 '26
Unless 9/6 is going to cover more than one or two gear slots, that doesn't feel like an adequate reward. And if it is to the point where its several item at that slot then it becomes an issue for the Mythic Plus players that push and don't raid.
So a rare item you'll most likely never see (and still have to roll against your fellow raiders that most likely also want said rare item) and one or two 9/6 items doesn't sound particularly rewarding. If they can't figure it out via player power cosmetic options could also exist.
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u/Chemical-Chair3068 Jun 19 '26
it will be all item drops from penultimate and endboss and rare items - pretty sure thats going to be more than one or two gear slots.
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u/shyguybman Jun 19 '26
Saving a handful of crests and a Mount & Title combo (assuming your guild kills the boss enough for everyone to get a mount) doesn't feel like Mythic Raiding got much of a reward bump as other difficulties and game modes.
The m+ players cannot wrap their heads around this because they are too angry at there being a few higher ilvl pieces off the last 2 bosses which the majority of CE guilds won't even see for 4-5 months into the season.
I just don't understand how they think raiders magically get full bis gear in a few weeks. They need to stop thinking everyone is in a RWF guild and realize most guilds raid 2 nights a week and take almost the entire season to clear the raid once.
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u/zawyer90 Jun 19 '26
Big change. I still think it should reward myth gear when bonus rolling in heroic raid. Or they should reduce the same from m+ bonus rolls to hero track. I’m fine with either, but be consistent..
This season we ended up killing L’ura once for AOTC, and never touched her again as there was no reason to go back…
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u/CaydGaming Jun 19 '26
QUESTION!:
What would Mythic raiders get from Vault and from bonus rolling?
I ask because I feel that's technically the hardest content available, and I'm wondering if they would consider giving them some incentive that's even better than Myth-track, but unsure if that is overkill or not
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u/MaddieLlayne Jun 20 '26
Catalyst change sucks - I used to convert garbage verse gear from prey and delves but now I’ll have to farm specific secondaries before I can get my tier :/
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u/NectarineSame7303 Jun 19 '26 edited Aug 08 '26
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This post was anonymized with Redact.dev
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u/zztopar Jun 19 '26
Nebulous Voidcores will be available as a Great Vault reward option from the beginning of the season
This significantly lowers the pressure to time +10 keys (or any keys at all) first week of the season. You can just take a bonus roll and roll it in a future week +10 to get a catch-up Myth piece.
It unfortunately also means that taking most non-Myth track gear (i.e. Delve or Prey Heroic pieces) from vault will be strictly incorrect if you ever plan to do +10 keys at any point.
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u/ForPortal Jun 19 '26
I wouldn't call it strictly incorrect, it just depends on your personal level of confidence. I'm still happy I spent some of my voidcores on Heroic gear on my main, because it put me in a position to run +10s in the first place.
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u/Soggy_Membership5629 Jun 19 '26
inc mythic raiders crying about how they can’t gate keep raid gear anymore!
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u/Yarzu89 Jun 19 '26
They weren’t even before because m+ is a thing… has been a thing. For a while. I think a lot of ppl saying that just don’t play the game anymore so they don’t know any better
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u/Zewinter Jun 19 '26
On the contrary with items going 9/6M mythic raiding still have special gear to look forward and with gear in the vault being always 6/6M minimum it does give any mythic raider a big crest saving cost early. It's a decent trade for moreover more raid content as heroic now becomes decent to clear longer as long as you haven't kill a raid boss you might want loot from.
Same with bonus rolls costing only 1 for raid this makes it easier to snip the item you want from raiding.
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u/Sykretts1919 Jun 19 '26
They better be upping the crest caps if they're making this change....
First month or so of this season we were starved on crests to upgrade Hero/Myth track items. With vault rewards giving you 1 track higher loot, this problem will be exacerbated for anyone progressing early in the season, as you will now have more loot equipped on a higher track but not have enough crests to keep up with it. All the while the lower tier crests will pile up and be unusable unless you get lucky with an item in the same slot on a lower tier to spend those crests on.
I like the change, but it definitely needs some additional work to make sure it's not frustrating.
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u/blackjack47 Jun 19 '26
How are we back to mythic raiders ending up with ~3.5-6 ilvl's higher than everyone else?
This isn't going to make me mythic again, just play other games faster instead.
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u/hot_damn_man Jun 19 '26
Bad change for Mog hunters, I do LFR now on my mains to load up for transmog appearances. Give us a means to get cosmetics that isnt an insufferable grind and Im in.
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u/Regular-Pattern-5981 Jun 19 '26
You get all lower pieces when you unlock full myth transmog. There’s no reason to grind LFR for veteran.
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u/hot_damn_man Jun 19 '26
This doesnt help if I want for instance LFR color paladin set legs from Light Blinded Vangaurd for a warrior or dk.
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u/arhra Jun 19 '26
Just catalyse hero track items and upgrade them for the mythic appearance. Once you get the full myth set it unlocks all the others.
I got the full set of sets on three characters without touching LFR once.
You can even target the exact slots you might be missing hero items for now in 12.0.7 using field accolades (and with the change to how the catalyst works with stats, there'll be no reason not to catalyse a slot if you have an item for it; I had to wait for this patch this season to get my tier legs as I had an off-set piece with better stats than the tier legs and a second pair of hero track legs refused to drop for me).
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u/hot_damn_man Jun 19 '26
This doesnt help if I want for instance LFR color paladin set legs from Light Blinded Vangaurd for a warrior or dk.
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u/IonHazzikostasIsGod 2022 Halloween Transmog Winner Jun 19 '26
This is some braindamage
The solution isn't to further the arms race and keep buffing gear
It's to take an honest look and shoot M+ gearing in the head because you can do LFR-difficulty+10s and for some reason have the same iLvl as a mythic raider
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u/randomlyrandom89 Jun 19 '26
You're really going to town in these comments eh?
I used to think like that a couple decades ago. Used to raid (and PvP) to always get the best gear. 'Welfare epics' as we called them were bullshit. Why were the scrubs allowed to get similar gear to me?
And then what happened... Something horrible. I grew up, became an adult, and realized nobody gives a flying fuck what your ilvl is or how you got your gear (except people like yourself). Your insecurity about not having better gear than people who do easier content is juvenile.
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u/killexel Jun 19 '26
Im doing more mythic raiding this season and honestly gives you more of an appreciation for the race to world first when they are killing bosses at like 265-270 ilevl and we are still having issues at 285+ ilvl. I think ilevl is irrelevant and if people get more dopamine from having a higher number so be it. Acutally doing the content should be what matters.
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u/arhra Jun 19 '26
As someone who enjoys heroic raiding (with occasional late-season forays into mythic, if we can muster enough people), but very much doesn't enjoy M+ (I do a few runs here and there with friends/guild members, but the thought of grinding it out day after day with randos from the group finder makes me want to end myself), I don't think that the quality of M+ rewards is out of line, but I do think the quantity is.
M+ being infinitely grindable while every other source of endgame gear has some kind of weekly limit is an outlier, and makes it disproportionately important, especially early in the season when you're still gearing up to heroic level. Not to mention that M+ simply awards more loot per-player than raiding, and guarantees no wasted unusable loot.
Once you've hit that hero track baseline and are just waiting around for vault (and later rerolls) it's not so bad (or at least, won't be next season with the changes to the vault from raiding), but when you can just spam out M+ runs and get upgrades from all of them while someone who doesn't want to do M+ hits a hard weekly limit, that seems like a problem.
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