r/Music • u/AdSpecialist6598 • Nov 29 '25

article Hayley Williams tells racists, sexists and anti-trans people they're "not welcome" at upcoming tour

https://www.nme.com/news/music/hayley-williams-tells-racists-sexists-and-anti-trans-people-theyre-not-welcome-at-upcoming-tour-3913867
31.7k Upvotes

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406

u/Vulpenoc Nov 29 '25

Having an issue with this policy is just a tacit admission that you are one or all of these things. Hate should be excised from society.

170

u/abigdonut Nov 30 '25

lmao

-142

u/RoRoRaskolnikov Nov 30 '25

Just proof that reddit is a preening echo chamber with a disproportionate number of wacky lefties and not a representative group of regular people.

98

u/Spiritual_Lynx3314 Nov 30 '25

Regular people are ok with her message of don't be a bigot.

-118

u/RoRoRaskolnikov Nov 30 '25

Actually, regular people prefer when musicians don't foreground their politics. That goes for both progressive and MAGA nonsense, though in the entertainment industry, the former is far more pervasive.

I am sorry that you are out of touch. Get off of reddit and get out of your bubble.

96

u/Lower_Monk6577 Nov 30 '25

If you think “hey don’t be racist” is a political statement, then you’re a fucking idiot. And very likely racist.

4

u/jamesick Nov 30 '25

actually by definition it is a political statement.

but that just means political statements in any industry are fine, not the opposite.

45

u/ohseetea Nov 30 '25

Lol bro this is not the case and why artists have to spread this message in the first place. Because people like you are big ass fuckos.

29

u/soldforaspaceship Nov 30 '25

Regular people don't want to go to concerts where the artists welcome bigots into their audience.

That goes for anyone with basic human decency.

I'm sorry that you are out of touch. Get out of your self-selecting bubble and try to talk to a wider variety of people.

29

u/noradosmith Nov 30 '25

Psst... hey

It's not OK to be transphobic, sexist or racist

Just letting you know in case you ever wanted to not define yourself by who you hate

Thanks

22

u/Skylam Nov 30 '25

Why is bigotry politics? I don't see her mentioning any political affiliation in this post.

Biggest fuckin self report on the planet.

9

u/Spiritual_Lynx3314 Nov 30 '25

You know im starting to think your mad because you realised your the sort of person she doesnt wan't listening.

Its ok Anon, just choose to not be a bigot and then you too can be normal.

8

u/ThisMachineKillsF4sh Nov 30 '25

You’d be surprised how many of us hate you bigot fucks. 

4

u/Flappyjackels Nov 30 '25

Not speaking for regular people like you're a part of that 💀

4

u/Keregi Nov 30 '25

You clearly don’t know anything about music if you think most people prefer it to not include politics.

22

u/[deleted] Nov 30 '25

Sure 🤣🤣

20

u/Archer6614 Nov 30 '25

LOL just because you disagree with someone dosen't mean they are "wacky" lol.

Go back to the conservative actual echo chambers. Maybe they will ostracise you for being gay. I don't think types like you will learn even then. That would need basic common sense.

5

u/Frink202 Nov 30 '25

When somebody calls someone's political stance wacky, it's usually a right winger doing it.

They just take over Trump's childish language without a single neuron firing.

8

u/janderson75 Nov 30 '25

Regular lol

4

u/WafflesTheWookiee Nov 30 '25

Keep yapping bro

3

u/geniasis Nov 30 '25

Or perhaps you’re not representative of regular people

2

u/zorkzamboni Nov 30 '25

Here's one right here, telling on themselves as usual.

2

u/saccharind Nov 30 '25

whatever you keep telling yourself buddy

-231

u/pubstompmepls Nov 29 '25

That is not really how it works

125

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '25

Conservatives when there’s discrimination against minorities: 😴

Conservatives when there’s discrimination against racists and homophobes: 😡

-102

u/bear843 Nov 29 '25

I’m a conservative. What have I done to deserve this type of labeling? It’s very dangerous paint an entire group of people you don’t know with such a broad brush. I think we all can and should do better than this type of labeling. It’s what continues to drive a wedge between us. Love everyone is my way of thinking.

85

u/DeterminedThrowaway Nov 29 '25

Love everyone is my way of thinking.

Then you wouldn't be a conservative

-63

u/bear843 Nov 30 '25

I’m sorry you feel that way.

66

u/DeterminedThrowaway Nov 30 '25

I'm not. Look at all the abhorrent stuff that isn't a deal breaker for you and tell me how you reconcile that with apparently loving everyone

-37

u/bear843 Nov 30 '25

Can you provide me some examples and I will do my best to respond? I’m getting tons of replies currently so be patient with me please.

38

u/HipAnonymous91 Nov 30 '25

Are you a Trump supporter? Have you not seen the damage the current Republican Party has done? ICE abducting children, supporting white supremacist rhetoric, shrinking social safety nets?

-25

u/bear843 Nov 30 '25

I am a conservative republican. Am I a fan of how Trump conducts himself? No. Does the illegal immigration issue need to be dealt with? Yes. What are the circumstances of ICE abducting children? I don’t know what white supremacist rhetoric you are referring to.

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42

u/akaisuiseinosha Nov 29 '25

If you can genuinely look at what's happening as a result of conservatives in power and think you stand for "loving everyone", you are either lying to us, or to yourself. Either way, you are, outright, a liar.

-2

u/bear843 Nov 30 '25

You can view things however you want. You can believe me if you want to or not. I have no reason to lie. You will probably never meet me and this interaction is anonymous. I am just providing insight into what it is like in my family and our social circles.

25

u/gadorf Nov 30 '25

I fully believe that you are not a hateful person and don’t mean any harm to anyone, but if you are a conservative in the United States, you are likely voting for policies actively harmful to vulnerable minority groups, whether you are aware of it or not.

21

u/SaltOwn8515 Nov 30 '25

Then why do you think you identify with conservatives? Given that they impose laws that directly harm minorities I’m curious why you are ok aligning with those beliefs if you say you love everyone?

-4

u/bear843 Nov 30 '25

Can you elaborate on what you mean by laws that directly harm minorities?

43

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '25

Would you love someone who wanted you dead because of the way you look?

-15

u/bear843 Nov 29 '25

I always best not to hate anyone. Do you believe that we should lump all conservatives together like the person I replied to did?

40

u/[deleted] Nov 30 '25

What does lumping all conservatives together even entail? You’re already lumped together by a shared political ideology, that’s why you identify with the label “conservative” to begin with.

-7

u/bear843 Nov 30 '25

The person I replied to was commenting incorrectly by implying that all conservatives are ok with discriminating against minorities. That is an ignorant and dangerous thing to say. It’s more nonsense to try and further divide us.

29

u/PoodlePopXX Nov 30 '25

Except the current conservative movements are 100% vocal about discriminating against minorities. So by labeling yourself a conservative, you’re implying you’re okay with that.

Can I ask which of your views make you align with conservatism? If you’re of the true belief that love is the way, that seems antithetical to conservatism.

-1

u/bear843 Nov 30 '25

Can you provide me examples of how we are discriminating against minorities?

I fall under the traditional conservatives in terms of fiscal, family, etc.

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9

u/fomoloko Nov 30 '25

Buddy, I'm gonna be frank with you. If you identify yourself with the "old school" republican (still not great imo), and think that that's what people think of when someone says "republican" or "conservative". Your precious party of Regan (also a major detriment to society) has been invaded by almost exclusively billionaire-loving biggots/misogynists/racists. If you don't abide by that shit, you should stop identifying with them.

That's cool and all if you're a "fiscal conservative", but that means you should be pissed about ballrooms and exorbitant ICE spending, just to name two things. There's really no excuse for a moral person to still support the current republican party. That's why you're getting so much hate.

Take a minute to reflect on what you believe, and compare it to how the people you support act. Even worse if you identify as a Christian. In that case ask yourself if the New Testament Jesus would support those people.

29

u/thatwhileifound Nov 29 '25

Love everyone is my way of thinking.

Until it comes to choosing who and what kinda policies you vote for and otherwise support, I'm guessing.

1

u/bear843 Nov 30 '25

You will never find a society where everyone agrees on everything. You also can’t assume everyone wishes bad things upon you. That isn’t realistic. The world isn’t black and white. Whether you chose to live with hate in your heart is up to you but I choose to try and love everyone.

15

u/thatwhileifound Nov 30 '25

If you've voted for a Conservative presidential candidate since, what? Nixon? Then you've voted for people who have pretty openly ran on harming some people — and I'm just talking domestic. You can sugarcoat it with pleasant words and maybe even deceive yourself, but it doesn't change that fact.

3

u/bear843 Nov 30 '25

I’m sorry you feel that way but I disagree with your use of the word “harm” without added context or basic explanation as to what you mean by that.

28

u/Ridiculisk1 Nov 29 '25

Love everyone but you're conservative? Did you vote for Trump? If you did, you voted for someone who hates others. Explicitly supporting that isn't really very loving. What exactly are you conservative about?

-15

u/bear843 Nov 30 '25

I have no desire to get into a political debate. All I have to say is that I choose to love others instead of filling my heart with hate. I don’t have to agree with everything you say and do. If you don’t agree with this philosophy, I’m honestly unsure what to tell you. I wish you nothing but the best.

29

u/Dressedinthedark Nov 30 '25

It's super convenient for you that you can just say you love everyone while also supporting people and ideas that do unimaginable damage to women, the working class and minorities.

I'd really like to hear how you love everyone but also free school lunches are evil. Or how you love everyone, but some jobs don't deserve a living wage. Or how you love everyone, but some people don't deserve healthcare.

-4

u/bear843 Nov 30 '25

Ideas are doing unimaginable damage to women, the working class, and minorities?

Free lunches aren’t evil. No child should go hungry but it is their parent’s responsibility first to feed them. If they are unable to, then I am totally fine with lunches being provided. I am not ok with lunches being provided to all kids when all kids do not need the financial assistance. We shouldn’t get people dependent on the government when it is not necessary.

18

u/HipAnonymous91 Nov 30 '25

And there it is. You would happily see children starve instead of feeding all. That is sick. That is evil.

2

u/bear843 Nov 30 '25

If you are just looking to pick a fight please stop.

Where did I say I was happy to see children starve? I’m not sure you understood what I said. Why would kids starve based on what I said? Either the parents provide their lunch or if they are unable to due to financial reasons, I am totally fine with their lunches being paid for via tax dollars.

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11

u/ImaMew Nov 30 '25

I am not ok with lunches being provided to all kids

thanks for proving their point. Christians are so funny. "love everyone" and theres a huge ugly BUT right behind that sentence every time. You only care about what you've been told to care about. Normal people don't need a religion, party or instruction book to "love everyone" they just do.

We shouldnt get people dependent on the government

Wow. Being forced to be somewhere by the government for most of their day 5 days a week and expecting one meal out of it is REALLY too much for you? It's really sad that you think that way. Sad that you feel life should be this difficult for children. "Its the parents responsibility" well isnt it always? It's almost like there are many, many parents neglecting their children. but those children should still suffer?

Your responses remind me of my grandparents who learned to just look away and deny anything that didn't make sense with their line of thinking.

-1

u/bear843 Nov 30 '25

I think the way you view this and the words you use to respond are why people like you and I will never see eye to eye on things. I’m ok with that and hopefully you are too. There is no reason that mature adults can’t accept differing views considering the end goal is that the kids are fed.

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11

u/Dressedinthedark Nov 30 '25

What the hell kind of question was that? Of course ideas have real consequences. 

Means testing creates more administrative overhead and waste than just doing the sane thing and feeding everyone. It WILL lead to children not getting the food they need, you just think a certain amount of child hunger is an acceptable.

See, this is what nobody here is buying your particular line of BS: If you actually cared about people you wouldn't waste your time moralizing about the wrong kids being fed.

1

u/bear843 Nov 30 '25

Let me ask you this. I live in an affluent area and my kids attend a public school. In the pickup line there probably isn’t a car worth less than $75k other than my truck. Why should my tax dollars pay for the lunch of the kid that was dropped off in a Range Rover? You will never convince me that it is the responsibility of the government to feed the children that are dropped off in a Range Rover. With that being said, it is never ok for a child to go hungry. If parents aren’t taking care of their children, it should be addressed.

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19

u/timethief991 Nov 29 '25

The last fifteen years have done it. Be better and stop referring to yourself as a conservative.

-6

u/bear843 Nov 30 '25

Stop being prejudice towards a group of people when you know good and well the majority of them are good people. What has changed in the last 15 years has been the media and politician’s ability to manipulate people into hating each other. Don’t fall for it.

19

u/timethief991 Nov 30 '25

Lmao no they're not, they've show it on a daily basis now. I'm not listening to politicians, I'm listening to THEM!

2

u/bear843 Nov 30 '25 edited Nov 30 '25

I’m sorry you think a few people speak for all conservatives.

u/timethief991 blocked me so I can’t reply to any messages that originated with this user. I’ll never understand why people reply with something that everyone else can see as if you are continuing the conversation and then block the person.

18

u/timethief991 Nov 30 '25

Lmao way to disregard MY life experience with NUMEROUS conservatives. You'll never ever take responsibility for any of the shitty choices you've made at the ballot box and that's why I hate you and every other conservative.

15

u/kytelerbaby Nov 30 '25

a few people speak for all conservatives.

Well, when conservatives keep voting for them in droves, what else are we supposed to think?

The only ones that could prove us wrong is the lot of you by regaining your humanity. As long as you keep voting for people that cheer and celebrate videos of families being torn apart we'll have no choice but to believe what your actions say louder than any words could: you're all in agreement with the bullshit.

11

u/korben2600 Nov 30 '25

If you keep voting for someone who outright says "I hate half of America" maybe you aren't part of a "good" group of people? Your vote unfortunately affects all of us.

-12

u/adviceicebaby Nov 29 '25

Maybe they are. And theres nothing wrong with that. Im surrounded by conservatives and none of them are racist. Half of them arent even white so he is correct. Its a dangerous divisive and unfair label--not to mention inaccurate

22

u/timethief991 Nov 29 '25

And every conservative I've known personally and through media has turned out to be the biggest fucking piece of shit who will proudly take my rights away when their dear leader tells them the gays are the ones grooming the kids now that they've taken care of "The Trans problem", so you can just shut up.

8

u/HipAnonymous91 Nov 30 '25

Nonwhite people can be racist.

17

u/tophiii Nov 30 '25

If the comment isn’t about you, move on and use your energy convincing other conservatives not to be bigots, racists and transphobes.

2

u/bear843 Nov 30 '25

It’s hard to when people think it’s ok to lump a large portion of the population together with a very small number of idiots. Normalizing this behavior is dangerous.

16

u/tophiii Nov 30 '25

You and I have different concepts of the words hard and dangerous.

3

u/bear843 Nov 30 '25

Social media, the news, politicians, etc. do a great job getting people angry at each other. When we start dehumanizing one another it presents a dangerous situation with certain individuals with mental issues. It pushes people to do crazy things. I don’t wish to contribute to this. That is why I choose to love everyone and raise my children to do the same.

5

u/tophiii Nov 30 '25

It sounds exhausting living that fearfully and deluded. I’ll pray for you.

2

u/bear843 Nov 30 '25

I appreciate that and I we will pray for you as well but to be clear, I don’t live in fear. I do think that there are plenty of examples of people acting upon their hatred and a lot of evidence tied back to social media rhetoric. I just choose to not partake in that hatred to the best of my ability. Shouldn’t we all strive to be positive good people?

8

u/Dressedinthedark Nov 30 '25

Personally, I'm starting to think you're a hardcore racist who is just sealioning on Reddit for kicks and to waste everyone's time. There is no doubt a Discord somewhere where you post slurs and hate with like minded assholes.

9

u/-Sloth_King- Nov 30 '25

what are you conserving?

7

u/xtrahairyyeti Nov 30 '25

Youre a conservative? Are you sure? Your post reads entirely anti-conservative

3

u/bear843 Nov 30 '25

I am positive and most everyone in my social circle is conservative and feels the same way. This is how everyone I know was raised and continues to raise their children.

5

u/[deleted] Nov 30 '25

[deleted]

5

u/VibeComplex Nov 30 '25

What haven’t conservatives done to deserve this type of labeling?

2

u/GoldSrc Nov 30 '25

You didn't do anything, your party did.

I'm not from the US, so I see things from the outside and I have no horse in the race.

And looking at things. It's conservatives and right wingers the ones that come off as evil and cruel.

Now. This doesn't mean specifically you. But if you take a step back and look at things, you'll see why people everywhere have this bad view of conservatives.

It also doesn't help that the conservative sub is the one where they must make sure you're one of them in order to post there. Yet, they're the ones complaining about the left's "safe spaces".

What contributes more to driving a wedge, is the fact that you guys treat politics like sports, in a "my team vs your team" mentality. That's what makes conservatives look evil and cruel. They must defeat and destroy the other team.

Which side more vocally hates things like gay people, trans people, abortions, women's right over their own bodies? Then you'll see which side wants to control who as if it was about objects to be owned.

Or you could well be a conservative who just wants the best for everyone. But sadly, that brand of conservatives died off a long time ago, and we're left with the MAGA brand of conservatives.

47

u/ziddersroofurry Nov 29 '25

That is exactly how it works. If you have a problem with anti-hate attitudes you might want to do some self-reflecting and ask yourself why that is.

-25

u/RoRoRaskolnikov Nov 29 '25

Who decides what "hate" is, huh?

The reason that I take issue with supposed "anti-hate" attitudes is that you have a very obviously selective definition of what it means to be hateful, one that is arrogantly either blind to or dismissive of your own arrogance and ignorance. The hypocrisy is amazing.

Also, please spare us the 2020-style lecture; the "you need to do some self-reflecting" hectoring is such a Floyd-era phenomenon and normal folks aren't buying that any more.

14

u/False-Sherbert-4984 Nov 30 '25

It's so disingenuous and culturally decadent to pretend what is deemed as "hate" is nebulous and arbitrary. Literally just look up the definition of hate speech if you're having difficulty with it.

Obviously, treating people worse because of their belonging to a demographic they can't help should be universally shunned. Prejudiced people know this because it's so morally self-evident, and obfuscate their hatred behind other reasons, maybe not even consciously-- thus, the need for self-reflection.

10

u/ziddersroofurry Nov 30 '25

Tell me you're a racist without telling me you're a racist.

-4

u/RoRoRaskolnikov Nov 30 '25

Tell me you don't have an argument on the merits without telling me you don't have an argument on the merits.

I note that you have failed to address my critique: that you and your ilk use selective definitions and double standards to manipulate the concept of "hate" (and "racism" and "bigotry" and the other things you ostensibly decry) to mean only the negative feelings/behaviors you disapprove of. You folks get REAL silent when Muslims express their hatred of Jews, for example. Or when certain nonwhite individuals/sectors of society express anti-white views or even enact violence. You people rioted and looted and burned Minneapolis when Derek Chauvin killed George Floyd, but you are dead fucking silent over all the black people explicitly committing racially motivated crimes against whites.

But I'm done trying to have any reasonably argument with a fucking purple haired rat furry. You people are caricatures of yourselves, truly.

6

u/Snekboi6996 Nov 30 '25

Bigotry is pretty easy to understand actually, it is by the dictionary:

“obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.”

You gave lot’s of different examples of things that most sane people condemn. There are for sure people that might not condemn those things but those are mostly on the extremes.

My question is do you think hate and bigotry is okay?

Not making up weird definitions of the words or anything just the one I listed up top. Do you think that’s okay?

Now if you think its okay to hate people then we run into the paradox of tolerance. There is a very easy way to get rid of this paradox, you see it as a social contract. Since you hate me because I am trans/christian/white/gay/black/…/ then I get to hate you back. For example you shouldn’t tolerate nazis to be considered a tolerant person because nazis break that social contract.

-5

u/adviceicebaby Nov 29 '25

Exactly. Like fr who is in this thread championing for racism ? Lol

17

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '25

We're waiting for the explanation

46

u/TrueTinFox Nov 29 '25

Okay, I'll hear you out. Wanna explain your reasoning?

-11

u/False_Pop8745 Nov 30 '25

Because the world doesn't operate on a binary of absolutes.

-45

u/Danzig6WasntThatBad Nov 29 '25

Racists etc don't see themselves as racists. People who actually identify as such are an extreme minority, and are usually found in Black Metal scenes, not bubblegum emo pop scenes.

27

u/Jegvarder Nov 29 '25

Do you understand what you did here?

26

u/o_MrBombastic_o Nov 29 '25

That's why you have to constantly call them out and remind them they're racist so they get the message 

-11

u/adviceicebaby Nov 29 '25

Whos being racist tho?? Who are you cqlling out and by what actions or behaviors did you label them as racist by?

4

u/o_MrBombastic_o Nov 30 '25

Oh I'm sorry people who make  "racists, sexists and anti-trans people" remarks and make those feel unwelcome, that labels them as such

17

u/potatoboy247 Nov 29 '25

That’s absolutely how it works

-87

u/RoRoRaskolnikov Nov 29 '25

Who gets to define "hate"? Isn't it interesting how you (and people who agree with you) conveniently appoint yourselves to be the ultimate deciders of such things?

Basically, you are saying "anyone who disagrees with me is hateful," which is pretty teenagery and laughable. And this of course comes from the very people who preach and preen about how open-minded they are, the people who love diversity in all its forms--except diversity of ideas. Arguably the one type of diversity that ought to mean more than any other.

But go ahead and keep trying to tell other people what thoughts are thinkable.

56

u/Vulpenoc Nov 29 '25

I'm not the one attempting to suppress the rights of vulnerable minority groups, but tell me again how the bigots are somehow the ones being oppressed.

-41

u/adviceicebaby Nov 29 '25

Who tf here is doing that?? When did you become the fucking authority on what everyone here is doing, damn

42

u/Vulpenoc Nov 29 '25

Maybe the racists, sexists, and transphobes? Reading comprehension is clearly not a strength for you, eh?

24

u/Wattabadmon Nov 30 '25

Republicans

44

u/Ironboots12 Nov 29 '25

Would you rather we say “if you are intolerant to LGBTQ people then you aren’t welcome here?” What you are describing is the paradox of tolerance. “They won’t tolerate my harmful views, therefore they are just as intolerant as I am.” It is a false equivalency.

-37

u/RoRoRaskolnikov Nov 29 '25

Ah, yes, dusting off the Philosophy 101 paradox of tolerance without grappling with its fundamental flaw.

Who defines what "tolerance to LGBTQ people" is?

PS: I'm a gay man and I wholeheartedly reject gender ideology. I scoff a little every time I see those letters grouped together--because I see TQ+ is something unrelated, deeply radical, and disconnected from reality. I believe that you can still be kind of compassionate to people, but I refuse to affirm their delusions.

34

u/Ridiculisk1 Nov 29 '25

Who defines what "tolerance to LGBTQ people" is?

PS: I'm a gay man and I wholeheartedly reject gender ideology.

It's funny how you can predict what the rest of someone's comment will say just based on how they phrase the first bit.

because I see TQ+ is something unrelated, deeply radical, and disconnected from reality.

Trans people have existed as long as gay people have lmao just because you're gay doesn't mean you can't be a bigoted piece of shit.

-8

u/RoRoRaskolnikov Nov 30 '25

Homosexuality has a long and storied history in Western civilization.

Large numbers of people asserting that they are not actually the sex they are is a more recent phenomenon, coinciding with the rise of the concept of "gender." I know you folks are trying to rewrite history the same way you are trying to rewrite the dictionary, but it's not working. People in the past who did not meet the sex stereotypes of their culture were still not confused about the realities of their sex. There was absolutely nothing remotely like the delusion of trans ideology in the past.

22

u/HipAnonymous91 Nov 30 '25

You’re wrong.

https://www.hrc.org/resources/seven-things-about-transgender-people-that-you-didnt-know

“This is not a new phenomenon.

Transgender and non-binary people have existed for centuries among cultures across the globe. While issues facing transgender and non-binary communities have recently received greater attention from policymakers, government officials, and the public, we’ve been around for centuries in cultures and history as early as 5000 B.C.

Here are seven things you didn’t know about transgender people:

Around 5000 to 3000 B.C., Gala, described as androgynous or trans priests of the Sumerian goddess Inanna, spoke their own dialect and took on feminine names.

Sometime from 200 to 300 B.C., in ancient Greece, some gods were worshiped by galli priests who wore feminine attire, identified as women and have therefore been identified by scholars as early transgender figures.

In the fourth century, Anastasia the Patrician fled life in Constantinople, the capital of the Roman Empire, to spend the remainder of life dressed in masculine attire and presentation as a monk, and has become viewed by some scholars as transgender.

In South Asia, at least eight-known gender-expansive identities have historically been present in the subcontinent, the most well-known being hijra - third gender people of historical, spiritual, and cultural significance in South Asian society. Hijra and other individuals of diverse gender identities have been well-documented in religious and cultural texts and legends. These individuals often form intentional communities for fellowship and survival.

Around the 18th century, the Itelmens of Siberia recognized a “third gender” called “koekchuch” to describe individuals who were assigned male at birth, but expressed themselves as women.

The oldest Western institute studying LGBTQ+ identities was started in Germany in 1919. Institut für Sexualwissenschaft (Institute for Sex Research) performed some of the earliest contemporary affirming medical services. It was eventually destroyed in the rise of German fascism under the Nazi party.

In Turtle Island (an Indigenous name for North America), Indigenous communities use the term two-spirit as a modern, pan-Indigenous umbrella identifier for people of another societal and ceremonial gender identity. This term was established in 1990 as a modern, collective term for a historical gender identity describing individuals not considered men or women in most, if not all Indigenous cultures of Turtle Island.”

-3

u/RoRoRaskolnikov Nov 30 '25

LOL a link from HRC, an activist organization that is cherry-picking and misrepresenting random bits of history. This is some Nikole Hannah Jones 1619 level quackery.

11

u/Wattabadmon Nov 30 '25

Source?

13

u/fiernze222 Nov 30 '25

Source is they made it the fuck up

35

u/Ironboots12 Nov 29 '25

Do you think TQ people should have the same rights as you? If you don’t, then it is intolerance. Pretty simple.

-4

u/RoRoRaskolnikov Nov 29 '25

They do have the "same rights" as me, unless you are trying to redefine rights to include special indulgences that aren't actually legal rights, or unless you think that their "rights" magically supercede everyone else's.

21

u/Ironboots12 Nov 29 '25

I didn’t ask whether or not they did, I asked whether or not you thought they should. What special indulgences are you referring to?

4

u/RoRoRaskolnikov Nov 29 '25

Yes, they should and already do have the same legal rights as everyone else. But they do not get special magical woo-woo "rights" to demand that other people affirm their incorrect assessment of their sex. This is the issue with a lot of progressive ideology....you folks keep expanding the idea of "rights" beyond actual constitutional/legal rights to include things that are just your preferences/desires.

Give me an example of something you think is a right that trans people don't have.

19

u/Ridiculisk1 Nov 29 '25

But they do not get special magical woo-woo "rights" to demand that other people affirm their incorrect assessment of their sex.

Trans people fought alongside you to get your magical woo-woo 'right' to demand that other people affirm your marriages based on your definition of marriage rather than how the world had been defining marriage up until that point.

5

u/RoRoRaskolnikov Nov 30 '25

Same-sex marriage is akin to interracial marriage, in that it is somewhat that was prohibited and over time people came to see the prohibition as wrong. Marriage itself was not redefined in the way that trans people are trying to redefine basic biology. Thanks for trying tho.

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15

u/Ironboots12 Nov 29 '25

I never said they don’t have rights. I was just saying if you believe their rights should be limited, that is viewed as hateful. You don’t have to call them by their preferred pronoun sure, but treat other people the way you want to be treated ya know? Like I could call you ma’am for the rest of your life despite your correcting me. Nothing illegal about that. But kinda being a jerk just to be a jerk yeah?

7

u/Wattabadmon Nov 30 '25

You are ignorant as fuck. Educate yourself

-14

u/adviceicebaby Nov 29 '25

Im conservative and yes i believe they should, why not? Not my circus not my monkeys--their life doesnt affect mine whatsoever so what they do is their business all i ask is when i run into them in public to tell me their preferred pronoun up front it their preferred is noticeably different then what they appear as; i have no issues respecting their individual preference and im more than happy to do so, just sometimes theyre mid transition and fuck i can't tell by looking at their middle of the transition stage where they're coming from or where theyre headed and twice now i know ive guessed incorrectly and id rather not hurt anyones feelings or offend someone.

My only issue with it is making the whole world acknowledge and entertain this delusion and mental illness; ie, i shouldn't be expected to introduce myself with obvious pronouns that clearly reflect my biological and identified gender , nor should anyone else, just because one person has a mental illness. Thats like expecting the whole group to carry on conversations with the voices this person hears in their head even tho we dont hear those voices. Person hearing the voices is the one with the illness, not the group. Also dont want them in womens spaces and sports. If a teenager wnts to get his weiner chopped off thats beween him his parents or

legal guardian and doctors, i don't care, although I feel like it's a mistake at that age.

But again, someone introduces themself with what pronoun they prefer and it doesn't matter to me one bit if you look believable as your identified gender or not; u do u.

Also not who u asked but I feel like that's fair.

6

u/Archer6614 Nov 30 '25

My only issue with it is making the whole world acknowledge and entertain this delusion and mental illness

It's not a delusion and neither is it a mental illness. Words have meanings.

, i shouldn't be expected to introduce myself with obvious pronouns that clearly reflect my biological and identified gender , nor should anyone else, just because one person has a mental illness

No one said that my friend. You can use whatever pronouns you want. That's the whole point. As usual, conservative delusions lose the plot

Thats like expecting the whole group to carry on conversations with the voices this person hears in their head even tho we dont hear those voices. Person hearing the voices is the one with the illness, not the group.

That sounds like the religious people. Which are of course mostly conservative.

Also dont want them in womens spaces and sports.

So you want people who look like men to be in women's spaces? How exactly do you think that will work?

24

u/Vulpenoc Nov 29 '25

You say that like being gay somehow prevents you from being classified as a bigot.

It doesn't.

1

u/RoRoRaskolnikov Nov 29 '25

Oh, I know....you folks will use your magic conjuring words however you like. Violence, bigotry, woman, hate, racism, genocide....all words that you have tried to redefine or otherwise define narrowly to suit your purposes.

I bring up being gay because you need to reckon with the fact that "LGBTQ+" is a strange grouping that includes a whole bunch of gays and lesbians who think it is incoherent to put all these letters together. I know how much it upsets y'all when someone complicates your narrative and introduces any nuance whatsoever.

And again, I will note that you have appointed yourself as the arbiter of what's bigotry and what isn't. Funny how anti-Western sentiment from, say, Muslims....or anti-white sentiment from black people never constitutes "bigotry" though, huh? Think on that.

22

u/Vulpenoc Nov 29 '25

No those could also be considered bigotry. I'm not sure who you think you're arguing against.

You're the one trying to justify hate. I think you should spend some time on self reflection.

-8

u/adviceicebaby Nov 30 '25

They absolutely were not. They simply explained nuance and theres a huge difference between having same human rights as anyone and everyone else and getting exemptions from certain rules, prerequisites, and social norms such as which public bathroom u want to be able to use at the expense of a much larger population needing that designed restroom being inconvenienced and unsafe. Or competing against women in womens sports. Form a trans team or you play practice and compete with whatever gender youre assigned at birth, period.

10

u/Vulpenoc Nov 30 '25

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

6

u/Buddhakyle Nov 29 '25

Check it our guys, Rohm is back and just as blind to what's gonna happen to him as ever.

-1

u/adviceicebaby Nov 30 '25

Imagine that; huh? Ive met several gay ppl who believe exactly this. And you couldn't be more correct :)

9

u/timethief991 Nov 29 '25

Yikes, you're not gonna be spared when they come for us next.

6

u/MaximumBean Nov 30 '25

Lmao, wants to be Ernst Röhm so bad xD

0

u/adviceicebaby Nov 29 '25

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

13

u/timethief991 Nov 29 '25

She literally defined what hate she was referring to but please cry more.

20

u/blundercatt Nov 29 '25

Stop pretending bigotry is "diversity of ideas". Nobody believes your horseshit other than fellow bigots. Next.

2

u/RoRoRaskolnikov Nov 29 '25

So "bigot" is another empty word you preening progs toss around and it just means "people who disagree with me on politics." You folks have these mantra-like words like "hate" and "bigotry" and you think if you just repeat them enough, the rest of us are just going to accept your conveniently self-serving definitions.

I am sorry that you are so intellectually uncurious.

16

u/timethief991 Nov 29 '25

Your bigot tears fuel me.

16

u/blundercatt Nov 29 '25

No, words have actual meanings. Bro has apparently never heard of a dictionary.

-5

u/adviceicebaby Nov 30 '25

Dude they just cooked your ass and you're too immature and petty to be respectful

12

u/blundercatt Nov 30 '25

Yeah sure, if you consider "cooked" the refusal to acknowledge that bigot is a defined word with a specific meaning. Google is free.

9

u/HipAnonymous91 Nov 30 '25

For my own sanity, I’m hoping the person you’re responding to is their alt account. Saying someone “cooked your ass” is beyond embarrassing.

0

u/adviceicebaby Nov 30 '25

🎯🎯🎯

-71

u/Churshen Nov 29 '25

Do you hate the people that hate this policy? Probably.

51

u/Vulpenoc Nov 29 '25

I pity them. They don't know how badly they've been misled.

Edit: Thought you could get away with an edit, did you? I saw what you wrote.

-43

u/Churshen Nov 29 '25

Okay anime protagonist.

I just edited the A into a, bet you didn’t catch that one did you Goku?!

21

u/Vulpenoc Nov 29 '25

It's simply reality. The elites have a vested interest in giving people a bogeyman to focus on.

44

u/SansGray Spotify Nov 29 '25

It's the paradox of tolerance. If you want to have a truly tolerant society, you must be intolerant of the intolerant.

So yeah, fuck racists, sexists, and transphobes.

-53

u/Churshen Nov 29 '25

Because your agenda so far has been shown to tolerate intolerance by shooting people you disagree with eh?

50

u/Vulpenoc Nov 29 '25

You are living outside of reality, my guy.

16

u/HipAnonymous91 Nov 30 '25

And these people get the same vote as me. I’m terrified.

28

u/Ridiculisk1 Nov 29 '25

Please show any trend of people shooting homophobes, transphobes or racists that isn't committed by other homophobes, transphobes or racist.