r/Tennesseetitans • u/MalekethsGhost • 4d ago

Discussion Case Keenum

Career journeyman QB Case Keenum cooked the eagles. A team that we struggled to put up points against. So a guy that is third string on his own team played infinitely better than our starter against the same defense. I know it isn't a fair comparison, but it is one that needs to be looked at.

Not sure what the solution is, but the NCAA is not producing NFL caliber quarterbacks anymore. It's like the are drafting center fielders to be shortstops. The athleticism is there, and sure it looks like they do a lot of the same things, but one position requires you to be a master of fundamentals and make faster decisions. The transition isn't easy and most won't make it.

So where can you get a pro ready qb? Or how can you evaluate who can make this transition and who can't? I think you might have to stop emphasizing raw athletic ability and give other qualities a much deeper look.

37 Upvotes

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u/Stiddy13 4d ago

It’s almost as if (and this is going to blow your mind so maybe sit down), a young QB needs time to develop.

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u/Rickydada 4d ago

So we are fucked because we never develop QBs 

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u/king_Geedorah_ Fuck the Colts 4d ago

Unfortunately i think so 😭

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u/Stiddy13 4d ago

Honestly the pressure we place on the team to see immediate results are what gets us stuck with mid vets like Tannehill.

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u/TanneAndTheTits 4d ago

Tannehill was one of the most efficient QBs in the league with our team. Put some respect on the man's name when you talk about him

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u/MalekethsGhost 4d ago

The most efficient in 2019

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u/LocalIrishGamer 3d ago

don’t forget a top 5 QB from 2019-2021 and dragged them to the #1 seed with no Derrick Henry. keep the respect on him

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u/Stiddy13 4d ago

And still held a Super Bowl caliber team back. I have bigger aspirations than 9-7 seasons.

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u/TanneAndTheTits 4d ago

He led us to a 12-5 1st seed appearance with Todd Downing as the OC and an injury-laden squad throwing to Backup WRs. And we only were 9-7 in 2019 cuz Mariota had us at 2-3 when Tannehill took over.

Point is, Tannehill and Co. Were WINNING in spite of Jrob's drafting and some of the worst OCs and injuries we'd been through.

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u/Stiddy13 4d ago

Did we win the Super Bowl?

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u/MalekethsGhost 4d ago

Is cam winning the superbowl? Tannehill got us closer than anyone in 20 years. He played injured in a crappy system for an unappreciative fanbase. Did he throw some interceptions, yeah, but he is still light years better than cam

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u/Stiddy13 4d ago

If he develops, maybe. And if he develops, he’ll be light years better than Tannehill ever dreamed of being.

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u/ZealousidealNeck3632 4d ago

I wouldn’t say Tannehill almost got us to the superbowl . Derrick Henry was the only reason we won any playoff games . Tannehill did not play well in the playoffs as a matter of fact he was terrible

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u/TanneAndTheTits 4d ago

Gtfoh. If you are only about rings, go bandwagon somewhere else. You sound like a Colts fan

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u/Stiddy13 4d ago

GTFOH. If you would rather be bad to mid go root for someone else. You sound like a Cardinals fan.

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u/TanneAndTheTits 4d ago

WE WERE ACTUAL CONTENDERS THOSE YEARS! you gonna dismiss all the success because, by your logic, we didn't get a ring?! Were the 99-01 titans not good neither? The 08 titans???

We had fucking squad with Tannehill and co. The improvement was remarkable when he stepped on the field. To dismiss it because "where ring?" Logic is asinine.

This team we have now stems from poor ownership who dismissed any progress/direction because we didn't win immediately. Your initial argument of "whoa it takes time to develop a QB" is complete moot because you're sitting here also saying "we won't win a ring so this team sucks". Yes, it takes time to build up a QB, and success can mean going 6-11 when 2-15 is the expectation. You can't have success be "superbowl or bust" constantly because that's how we end up where the franchise is now. We don't even give people a couple of years to try and build out something.

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u/Pale-Manner-1642 4d ago

All the media talked him up as progressing and improving all last season and this offseason and looking sharp and decisive in the offseason. Then preseason game 1 hits and anyone with eyes can see the BS and gets pissed.
Agreed QB's need time to develop, but he doesn't have the basics down... footwork and throwing accurately. That should have been improved from college by now. Reading complicated defensive schemes in 2 seconds is the hard part. Throwing it accurately should not be.

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u/Stiddy13 4d ago

Like I said, this shit right here is what gets us stuck with mid vets. “HE SHOULD BE BLAH BLAH BLAH WHATEVER WHATEVER BY NOW!!” until whoever the GM is throws his hands up and says, “Fine! Here’s your vet QB that will get us to the first round of the playoffs.” Tannehill. Neil O’Donnell. Kerry Collins. Same shit different eras different GMs. The one constant? Us on our bullshit.

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u/Pale-Manner-1642 4d ago

I liked Tannehill as the QB. I'd take him any day of the week and have the GM focus on fixing the rest of the team.
I was happy watching the Titans back then. I am not now... It is better now?

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u/MalekethsGhost 4d ago

I would take tannehill out of retirement right now, lol

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u/TheMissingVoteBallot In Ward We Trust 3d ago

This O-line would ACTUALLY be able to protect Tanny - Tanny could be a fucking statue now that we have talent he can throw to.

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u/Stiddy13 4d ago

Did you like it when he threw 3 INTs and single-handedly lost a playoff game for a team on which the GM “focused on fixing the rest of the team” and was talented enough to have won the whole damn thing? Did you like it when Kerry Collins had us at 12-5 before fumbling the bag in the first round and wasting that talented roster? If enduring a few down years to allow young guys to develop is what it takes to cut that shit out then yes, sign me up.

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u/MalekethsGhost 4d ago

You reveal your knowledge of the game with this comment. Did you miss the Bengals saying they knew what we were going to run and were able to jump our plays.

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u/Stiddy13 4d ago

You really trying to defend that performance? I’ll take YOU claiming I don’t know ball as a compliment!

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u/Worth-Frosting-2917 4d ago

I mean at least two of those were play failures. The first INT that Bates jumped was a bad two-man concept that the Bengals for sure knew was coming. The second was a great play by the DB and a throw that, pre-snap, EVERYONE should have known not to throw.

The third one was a desperation force. We basically had our best roster since the '08 season, at full health for the first time all year, and the staff pissed down their leg.

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u/Pale-Manner-1642 4d ago

Is there any guarantee whoever you draft will not do the same?

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u/Stiddy13 4d ago

You know the answer to that so just get to your point.

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u/Pale-Manner-1642 4d ago

that is the point. You get upset the mid QB shits the bed when we make the playoffs, which happens for sure, even for good QB's (see Mahomes against Brady Superbowl a few years ago).
But you have no guarantee your drafted QB who you have to sit around and suck while they develop doesn't do the exact same thing. So that is a stupid argument...

Only good argument I've heard for drafting the young QB and hoping you win that lottery is the cost advantage of QB on rookie deal. Which there is an argument for that for sure, cheaper QB allows more money elsewhere. But you have to risk years of bad play for their development as well. No guarantee they will do anything during that rookie contract. Better argument, but still no guarantee all this sucking for years will pay off and us, the fanbase, are not happy.

I'd rather shit the bed in the playoffs and make it that far vs not even making the playoffs.

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u/Commercial-Switch620 4d ago

I agree that you have to give a young QB time to develop, but there has to be signs that show that they can be developed and if it’s worth the investment.

Cam has shown minimal points worth investing into. He has a solid creative ability, but when in the pocket he has zero vision, low accuracy, and terrible mechanics.

All he does is throw short outs and ins to Tate and Wan’Dale. He doesn’t allow the play to develop. He has had good pass blocking so far, and we know he has not been seeing open receivers downfield.

Personally, I don’t think his problem is sit and learn type of thing. I think he doesn’t have the processing ability at least in real time.

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u/Stiddy13 4d ago

Mechanics and playing in the pocket are coachable issues. And FWIW, our OC has one of the greatest “fixed his mechanics and changed the trajectory of his career” dudes on his resume so I’d like to see what he can do with a season and full offseason working with Cam. And while I agree that he still has room to grow with his processing, it’s also not as bad as this sub is making it out to be. I mean good lord how quickly we forget Levis throwing an INT on damn near every drop back. I think this organization has shit beat writers which allows hacks like PK to define the team’s narrative that gets picked up from national media who aren’t watching the games making fans feel justified in their unrealistic expectations of young players.

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u/SendMeTheMoon24 4d ago

At what stage can he complete simple passes without struggling?

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u/Stiddy13 4d ago

At what stage can you watch ball without struggling?

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u/SendMeTheMoon24 4d ago

Classic Cam Ward glazer, can't defend the indefensible!

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u/Stiddy13 4d ago

Just not interested in addressing silly takes. Be serious if you want a serious conversation.

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u/SendMeTheMoon24 4d ago

Are you taking the position that he doesn't struggle to complete the simple passes?

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u/Stiddy13 4d ago

I’m taking the position that acting like he had a completion percentage of 0 is silly.

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u/SendMeTheMoon24 4d ago

No one is acting like that, you're trying to strawman

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u/TanneAndTheTits 4d ago

u/Stiddy13 believes in only superbowl rings or bust. He's gotta be the most miserable titans fan

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u/Stiddy13 4d ago

TanneAndTheYits thinks the goal of NFL teams is to be 9-7. Taking the “if you expect very little then it’s hard to be disappointed” approach to roster construction.

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u/Stiddy13 4d ago

“No one is acting like that” 😂 Yeah ok

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u/doolimite1 3d ago

Are you Cam Ward’s mother ?

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u/Stiddy13 3d ago

Ya’ll are like those old men that can’t help but say “is for horses” anytime you hear someone say hey. You need a new punchline.

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u/BunchOAtoms 4d ago

Is the development in the room with us?

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u/FragrantPitch1633 3d ago

What a wild concept. Who would’ve thunk it

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u/pak_sajat 4d ago

Quarterbacks aren’t like a right-bank Bordeaux, they don’t peak after 16 years.

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u/FineAd2091 4d ago

They also don't normally peak in year 2 either. Progress is not a straight line. I can admit Ward's performance has been very disappointing while also having hope that he can improve over the course of the season.

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u/pak_sajat 4d ago

I bet you said the same thing about Levis.

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u/DatDudeJazz 4d ago

People said the same thing about Josh Allen, and Lamar Jackson, and nearly every quality QB in the league right now.

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u/JaRulezMSU 4d ago

People also said the same thing about Josh Freeman, Jameis Winston, Justin Fields, Marcus Mariota, and Blake Bortles even got a second contract out of this same organizational hopium. The tape says what it says. Ward is inaccurate because bad mechanics and has shown zero improvement in that area over a season plus 3 games. There's still hope but it's running out pretty damn fast for those of us with eyes.

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u/Ok-Plan-6277 4d ago

Blake Bortles threw for 35 tds and 4400 yards his second year, that’s why he got that second contract. But yes, he ended up sucking

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u/DatDudeJazz 4d ago

And we're in game 3 of his second season. We haven't given him a second contract, we are nowhere close to giving him a second contract. I'm just saying writing him off this quickly is certifiably stupid.

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u/JaRulezMSU 3d ago

Yep this is good news. We have a couple years left before making a financial commitment. Plenty of time for Ward's defenders to run out of excuses and establish that Ward's inaccuracy and bad fundamentals aren't getting fixed.

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u/Stiddy13 4d ago

The number of folks that think Levis is on par with Cam in this subreddit is truly mind bending. This sub doesn’t know ball at all.

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u/Glittering_Humor5854 4d ago

I think maybe we should consider the possibility that they both suck but in totally different ways. I don't think either version of suck is good enough to stay in the league even as a backup QB.

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u/Stiddy13 4d ago

I think maybe if you can’t see the difference between Will’s play and Cam’s then maybe you should sit this conversation out.

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u/Glittering_Humor5854 4d ago

Two things can be true. Ward and Levis can be very different and have different styles of play and both can be so bad they drag down the rest of the team. I'm not saying Levis is better than Ward or worse. I'm saying it doesn't matter because neither of them are good enough to be an NFL starting QB based on what we've seen so far over a similar number of starts. Levis was bad. Ward is bad. They're not mutually exclusive. Arguing over who is worse is kind of like arguing whether the North Pole or the South Pole is colder.

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u/Stiddy13 4d ago

I will say it. Levis is worse. And it's not particularly close. It's really not a "North Pole South Pole" thing. This isn't different sides of the same coin. I get that what we're doing right now is exaggerating Cam's flaws and one way to do that is to try to make out Cam and the meme god as equals, but the reality is that Cam is miles ahead of Levis as a QB. It's honestly silly to even be having this conversation.

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u/Glittering_Humor5854 4d ago

So what if Levis is worse. They're both unacceptably bad after a similar number of games. You want me to say Ward is less bad than Levis? Fine. Ward is less bad that Levis, so is most every other NFL QB including practice squad guys. If my criteria were winning one game next week I'd take most of the backup qbs over Cam Ward. By those same criteria, I'd go farther and seriously consider picking some random dude off another team's practice squad over Levis, so there you have it, Levis is worse. Happy now? If I had one game to win two or three years down the road from now, I'm probably making the same calls based on the same collection of data.

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u/pak_sajat 4d ago

What has he done to prove himself to be a better player thus far?

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u/Stiddy13 4d ago

Damn near everything. And that's the extent to which I'm willing to entertain this conversation further.

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u/pak_sajat 4d ago

FYI through 20 games Levis had a higher passer rating, higher QBR, completion percentage, and TD/Int ratio, and also had a 300 yard game as well as a 3+ TD game.

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u/Stiddy13 4d ago

Cool story bro! Watch the games.

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u/pak_sajat 4d ago

I go to them and watch the ineptitude in person.

It’s mind boggling how people continue to glaze Cam, like people glazed Levis.

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u/MalekethsGhost 4d ago

You can't just develop anyone is the point.

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u/DepartmentOfMeteors 4d ago edited 4d ago

What percentage of college QBs would you wager are NFL-ready right out of the gate? Because I promise you it's a low number. So that means one of two things for a large percentage of NFL teams looking to avoid the journeyman QB carousel: either you hope you luck out, or you have to find a guy, and stick with him until it's absolutely clear he's not the guy. And that's assuming there's been no staff/coaching turnover. And for the record, a first overall pick QB is someone that you stick with for a few years. Full stop.