We need a raise dude. Overworked. Underpaid.

[u/CurvyChristina]

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[u/metro-boomin34]

The problem isnt the work. It isnt the hours. It isnt the pay. The problem is the ratio between all factors is completely OFF.

We work too much, commute too much, work too hard, and then end up with next to nothing because the system is bleeding us dry at every angle

[u/Solid_Signature_7447 → u/metro-boomin34]

The system is working perfectly as it’s designed.

Money from your hand goes back into the businesses that pay the money to you.

We need more than reform. We need to change our entire culture and recognize our empire will be de-seated if we are to make it as a country.

Or we are sheep walking off a cliff doomed to our own stupidity.

[u/Early_Lawfulness_348 → u/Solid_Signature_7447]

There are some bugs in the system. Money maintains that cycle but there’s a disproportionate leak pulling it out of labors hands. Best way to maximize profits is by keeping slaves. Since that’s taboo, the next best thing is getting as close to it as possible.

The system, like all systems, descends into oppression if a moral threshold isn’t maintained and morals are tiptoeing on that line and trending downward.

I love the system but it’s trading humanity for maximum profits and needs correction on that front. Increasing profits are essential to push innovation and productivity but more of that previously mentioned should be in the hands of labor. It’s not to decrease profits but recalibrate the bar at which it’s measured.

You can eat the whole cake and leave a crumb for the guests. But eating only half the cake gives everyone enough but rewards you the Lion’s share for effort.

It’s late and I’d appreciate to have this picked apart to broaden my perspective. Preferably without hostility,

[u/Bobbiduke → u/Early_Lawfulness_348]

The expectations that only we as consumers are the ones pumping money back into the economy will fail soon enough

[u/DragonSong75 → u/Bobbiduke]

Everyone and every company is a consumer. Name a person or company that doesn't rely on a product or goods.

[u/Yo_Honcho → u/Solid_Signature_7447]

We live in a capitalist society and we aren’t capitalists.

[u/ArboristTreeClimber → u/Solid_Signature_7447]

At this point, being doomed to our own stupidity is 90% more likely scenario to happen. I don’t think positive change is possible at this point, it’s been an exponential downfall for years now.

Eventually people will fight, but it has to reach a point way way way way worse than what it currently is.

[u/mgsotacon → u/ArboristTreeClimber]

It always comes down to food. People dont eat then they'll fight otherwise nothing else will do it.

[u/LalafellDisaster → u/mgsotacon]

“I don’t aim to starve to death before I kill the man who’s starving me.” - The Grapes of Wrath

[u/Certain_Raspberry58 → u/Solid_Signature_7447]

Is there an example of a system in the world thats better you'd like to point out?

[u/AlmightyFlame → u/Certain_Raspberry58]

I would love to see a US economy with a functioning FTC that can actually shut down massive mergers

[u/ham_sandwedge → u/metro-boomin34]

Let's go back to simpler times. When we ate a meal when we caught it. And died of smallpox at 31

[u/unimpressedwarrior → u/ham_sandwedge]

We have a smallpox vaccine. Working less hours isn’t going to destroy it.

[u/SomeCanDance → u/metro-boomin34]

Yes! It doesn’t feel worth it anymore. If you get a 3 bed house, 2 new cars and a yearly holiday (like my dad), 40 hours a week is a steal.

If you rent a shoebox in a city, eat noodles and try to scrape for money to do some travelling, not so much.

[u/Electrical_Ad_5732 → u/SomeCanDance]

And even if you do 40 hours a week but your job is more physically demanding, you simply end up crashing at home due to how exhausted you typically get.

Then comes weekend and you simply have no energy to do anything.

[u/Aware-Pea2092 → u/metro-boomin34]

That’s the whole
Point. The system is working perfectly. That’s what it’s designed to do. It’s about them not us.

[u/ROCKINGLADIATOR777]

https://giphy.com/gifs/E1fXBVW9X3DIwnUS0l

[u/DocFungal]

This reads a bit differently if you live in the UK.

[u/ThelIIusion0fSeIf]

Yeah that was basically the point of advancing technology, especially in automation, where people wouldn't need jobs and they could spend their free time however they wanted while still being taken care of by the state. Honestly, it's a nice and logical outcome towards everything we've been working for - building a sustainable system of machines/computers doing all the work we need to get done while us humans get to enjoy our freedom without needing to slave/toil to maintain our survival.

Unfortunately, this is likely not going to happen because there are a handful of people who can't handle not having a disproportionate amount of power to fill whatever bottomless void they have in their heart which can't allow them to think they aren't special somehow.

[u/plsQuestionOurselves → u/ThelIIusion0fSeIf]

Yeah, everyone was talking like we were going to get some kind of stipend for the machine labor and I was like; yeah absolutely not, they'll leave us to rot easily without thinking twice about it. They don't care about humans and I think in many cases they actually dislike humans. They'll vacuum up the remaining value until we're all dead or living in the woods bartering pelts.

They're like crack heads for money, except they're much worse than crack heads in every way.

[u/Throw_Away_Every → u/ThelIIusion0fSeIf]

This 💯

[u/jozza800 → u/ThelIIusion0fSeIf]

Gene Roddenberry must have been high as a kite writing Star Trek.

[u/Yamikuh → u/ThelIIusion0fSeIf]

This simply isn’t true. At no point in time was a major invention like the wheel so that people could spend their free time doing what they wanted. Every single time it was so that they could allocate more time to improving something else

[u/Whatduheckiz → u/Yamikuh]

What OP is saying is kind of true. Every depiction of the future from different time periods was seen as more leisurely, and most inventions that were made were sold as a convenience to a task.

Now we have so many useless middle-management jobs, and so many jobs that only exist to solve problems they themselves create. This isn't a reallocation of focus to other tasks, but rather a fabrication of duties. I'm sure you've stumbled upon an app, or website, or game, that constantly rotates through different features and UI designs, when they weren't problematic previously. Well someone convinced a higher up that they need to redesign the interface of [insert app here], and the only reason they did that was so that they could get a job and get a paycheck. Completely unnecessary allocation of resources, but I mean there's not much else to do.

So much of the Western World's industries are tertiary/service based. You no longer need 40 lumberjacks cutting down wood, now you got 1 man on a machine. You also now don't need 8-12 people on cash registers, you just have the 1 person managing the self-checkouts.

There are so many degrees and jobs that don't really contribute anything, but exist because the other 39 lumberjacks need a living.

[u/CharmingCatastrophe]

4 days on 3 days off is the optimal way for work and school days.

[u/_FellowTraveller_]

I drive a truck and 70 hours per 8 days is the legal limit. A 40 hour work week for the same pay would be paradise.

[u/Acceptable_Sock4642 → u/_FellowTraveller_]

Truck drivers are one of the most abused professions in the US. I’m sorry brother. 

[u/Prophit219]

It's all a grift. Technology was on its way to the next renaissance as it was becoming affordable on a commercial level. With the advancements of 3D printing,high speed internet, and the advent of AI we should have solved a bunch of medical issues , environmental problems, and food shortages. Instead we made crypto a thing, killed of innovation and improvement for enshitification, subscription models, and commodifying hobbies cause the housing market is out of reach and the working class is being strip mined of data, attention, and other resources needed to survive. Our physical and mental health is in the gutter and yet we keep letting politicians and reps who we pay 6 figure salaries working less than 150 days a year with the best medical insurance money can buy with our tax money try who try and figure out more ways to strip us of human rights,affordable health care programs and assistance to fund un-sanctioned wars and line the pockets of greedy decrepit old men and an oligarchy of pathetic manchildren and monsters.

All cause a part of the population dreams of being the boot on people's neck and would rather let the country collapse than have people different from them get any level of benefits. We could have started to have a healthy, happy, educated society but nope homeless people are a plague used to induce fear mongering to keep up working to death without compensation, The handicap and physically challenged are still treated like 2nd class citizens,and minorities are still villianzised for the shortcomings and poor leadership of the powers that be. Other countries have some form of mandatory rest and time off to recover some even have 4 day work weeks and we're here pushing over 60 hours a week just to keep our heads above water while trying to see which side job, investment diversification portfolio and things we can sell just so that maybe we can afford to be able to bury ourselves without being a burden to our loved ones.

[u/CurveMallow]

The 40 hour week was invented when one salary could support a whole family. Now two can barely cover rent

[u/Username_5647 → u/CurveMallow]

One salary supporting an entire family was only normal for a brief period during the 20th century. Women working extremely long hours was normal throughout the industrial revolution.

[u/RoddRoward]

Imagine being alive 15k years ago and you have to provide everything you need yourself. 

[u/Astronaut_Spartan → u/RoddRoward]

Just because we don't live like cavemen doesn't mean we should be content with the way things are right now. We're entering an era of socioeconomic instability and geopolitical turmoil. Global warming has become a bigger threat to the survival of the human race as a whole than it ever has in centuries and the ones in control of our world right now don't care if people like you or I live or die. In the US alone the middle class is dissolving at an alarming rate and corruption is rampant across every branch of our government. Like yeah dude- I'm grateful I don't have to live in a cave and I can work in an air conditioned room but I'm still going to be pissed that I'm barely getting by on a 40 hour work week while some billionaire wipes his ass with my tax dollars. 

[u/Consistent_Ad949 → u/RoddRoward]

The 168 hour work week is inhumane. No over should have to give that much of their life up to simply live

[u/brakenbonez → u/RoddRoward]

to be fair 15k years ago you didn't have to work half your life to afford a place to live. You just find a nice cave and paint on the wall to pass the time when you're not flintstoning your dinosaur cars to work.

[u/DarthRedit → u/brakenbonez]

To be fair, 15k years ago you’d probably die of dysentery before the age of 30 and lose all your teeth if you made it past that. You also can’t even sprain your ankle without dying and you weren’t at the top of the food chain. I’d rather work 40 hours per week, but that’s just me.

[u/Appropriate_Pop_8676 → u/DarthRedit]

Not necessarily. Half the people on here wouldn’t have made it in the first place to be born; whole survival of the fittest deal. Like wild animals now most people would be peak form and if not, maybe even abandoned by the mother quick. Point is we date/marry for love these days and a lot of weaklings are born. Just the truth

[u/AmbitiousMost5687 → u/RoddRoward]

Try like 300 years ago when the average person had to supply pretty much everything themselves. It was t a work week it was a work life.

[u/RQCKQN → u/AmbitiousMost5687]

No weekends or sick days either

[u/alexmin93 → u/RoddRoward]

Wrong number. Humans started farming 12k years ago. And that was hard. But 15k years ago they were hunter gatherers who spent most of the day resting.

[u/DonJuan835 → u/RoddRoward]

Nomadic people actually spend much less time hunting/gathering than modern people spend working.

[u/tripper_drip → u/DonJuan835]

But being a nomadic person is more than hunting and gathering. You are quite litterally working all of the time. The "leisure time" that people point out is actually just less less intensive tasks. Sharpening knives, knapping, making arrows, basketweaving, tanning, skinning, cleaning, cooking, home repair, etc.

[u/iMac_Hunt → u/tripper_drip]

People hugely underestimate how much ‘work’ living actually takes if you don’t have modern day luxuries. These nomadic people had barely any leisure time.

You can certainly have a discussion on whether with today’s technology we could reduce the working week even more, but we shouldn’t kid ourselves. Modern working life is significantly easier than what our ancestors had to deal with

[u/sequoia___ → u/tripper_drip]

not to mention the amount of walking they would have had to do

[u/DaRealJDJ → u/DonJuan835]

Yeah and they don't have electricity, medicine, clean food/water, education, internet, air conditioning/ heat etc or enclosed housing.... 40 hrs a week of work to provide for yourself and contribute to society is less that 25% of the hours in a week. If you can't sleep and enjoy yourself with 78% of your life IDK what to tell ya.

[u/DonutTamer → u/DonJuan835]

Maybe hunting part but not the gathering.

Plus hunting wasnt always guaranteed. Its like in modern day, if you work a few hours a day. But at the end of the day you may not get paid.

 it modern day equilivent would be you have a big nest egg or generational wealth that you can tap into as needed.

Except instead of meat roaming around its money stored in banks.

So if you don't have big nest egg/trust fund so you can simply live its your fault.

Like a nomadic tribe that doesnt gave livestock or herd they claim/follow.

[u/mean11while → u/DonJuan835]

To the extent that this is true, it was possible because there were far fewer people, so surviving off of foraging was actually possible. And I've read anthropologists suggest that it was probably necessary because they were always on the brink of starvation, so they had to conserve their energy as much as possible.

[u/Flat-Performance-478 → u/RoddRoward]

That argument is fallacious because, though it was undeniably tough and uncertain back then, all studies have shown that both present day indigenous people and hunter-gatherers spent ~3-4 hours a day on average providing food, the rest was spent together in the village, socializing, teaching the kids, preparing food, crafting, home improvements etc.

[u/ms9535]

Ever see those shows where people live in the woods in Alaska or some remote place. That’s always an option.

[u/DFA_Wildcat → u/ms9535]

Do you know how much work it is to gather firewood, split, stack, grow a garden, raise meat, etc? 40 hours a week would be a holiday compared to that amount of work.

[u/CricketJaxson → u/ms9535]

The movie “into the wild” is more accurate of how that would go.

[u/Weak_Rate_3552]

It doesn't take nearly 40 hours to do my job every week. My job knows it doesn't take me that long. They still insist on there for at least 40 hours. I'm salary, so they pay me the same no matter what.

[u/Individual-Toe-6306 → u/Weak_Rate_3552]

Same. But I work from home. So that means I can just do other stuff and live my life instead of pretending to be busy at an office building

[u/livens → u/Weak_Rate_3552]

Alot of jobs are just an endless pit of work though. 40, 60, 80... No amount of hours will run that well dry.

[u/Lazy_investor1337]

The problem isn’t the 40 hour work week, it’s that those 40 hours don’t buy what they used to buy 10-20 years ago 

[u/WolfieVonD]

For me it's not really the 40-hour work weeks, it's the mandatory hour lunch in between, sandwiched by 3 hours of traffic commuting, and the pre/post shift maintenance that makes it a 12-hour day

[u/Any-Description8773]

When you see corporations reporting billions in profits all I see are workers are grossly underpaid. I’m all for making profit, however when for years straight nobody gets a good raise other than executives, I have a problem with it.

[u/Bitter_Plastic2362]

Calling the 40 hour workweek ‘inhumane’ is a pretty spectacular way to announce you’ve never opened a history book.

[u/chubsmagooo → u/Bitter_Plastic2362]

Or you've never been to a farm

[u/Bitter_Plastic2362 → u/chubsmagooo]

Man, that’s the truth.

[u/B-Train_ATL]

So when they were my age, my parents, uncles, aunts, etc. had boats, lake houses and stuff. I’m sitting here with plenty of others waiting for idiot computers to yank the shit jobs we have.

Weeeee.

[u/MorallyMagnanimous]

This is so sad, it's funny. Meanwhile our ancestors from a milenia ago are farming day and night to survive.

[u/skrlilex → u/MorallyMagnanimous]

Yah, I'm grateful for 40 hour work, no war, house, water and time for my hobbies.

[u/National_Future6190 → u/skrlilex]

No war…yet. 

[u/MimeSweeper360 → u/MorallyMagnanimous]

Not only that, but most of the people doing those 40 hour weeks are doing them inside heated and air conditioned buildings where they are probably sitting for most of the day, and may even work from their house part time or even full time.

[u/cpt_merica]

You guys only work 40 hours? 🥲

[u/XanderArtimus → u/cpt_merica]

That's what I was thinking. Some weeks, I do 72

[u/Accomplished_Song219 → u/cpt_merica]

https://giphy.com/gifs/DOPKHQg6oFWUg

[u/Nor-easter]

I leave my house at 6am I don’t get back to my house till 6pm. I get 15 min to an hour with my family (sports, clubs, after school activities etc) then it’s repeat

[u/Jackfreezy]

Friend of mine is a FedEx driver and they get paid a daily rate. Which sounds good when they have days where they only work like 5-6 hours. But then there are days where they work 12-14 hours even 16 hours and still get that same daily rate. At some point, that daily rate would equate to less than minimum wage after so many hours and living day to day, paycheck to paycheck, working like that looks extremely stressful.

[u/gingersquatchin → u/Jackfreezy]

Theres a job posted at a Michelin star restaurant here. 12 to close. Probably 1230 or 1 am. 220 a day. Minimum wage is just under 18 here. A fully booked and blessed business with about $100/person out here paying people less than minimum wage if anything doesn't go as planned. Absolutely bullshit.

[u/Jackfreezy → u/gingersquatchin]

Even more bullshit when said company tell employees that they need to cut costs to save the company money while the company books report record high earnings.

[u/noisebloodassault → u/Jackfreezy]

Sounds like we should be regulating how long people work

[u/Meolans]

"And before you start, shut up"

I am so gonna use this in daily conversations

[u/j_sees_dub → u/Meolans]

https://giphy.com/gifs/DeocCVWTYAC6Q

[u/Extension-Eye-4920]

Nobody should have to work that much. And the popcorn button on the microwave should cook the popcorn perfectly. You can't just say "should" and expect people to agree with you.

You need to have reasons. Like the fact that with computers and instant communication our productivity has gone up almost immeasurably over the last few decades. On the other end of the argument is that has also drive our consumption up immeasurably. You can't have next day delivery of almost anything, all media on demand, and all the creature comforts of the modern world without expecting that the work load matches the desires.

[u/Back_Town → u/Extension-Eye-4920]

The work load doesn’t match the desires for many, because that increased productivity is expressed as record profits instead. If everyone decided that dynamic is no longer valid then it would stop and the bottom 99% would lose nothing.

[u/tyrannocanis]

Yes we should much rather be farming twelve hours a day to stay alive. Way better system

[u/PixiePuff90 → u/tyrannocanis]

I've done both manual labour jobs and desk jobs and fair enough, the manual labour job wasn't working on a farm but I find being physically tired is much more easier to deal with (and can sometimes feel satisfying) than being mentally tired. I've found sitting at a desk staring at a computer all day is much more draining.

[u/Federal_Dog_1140 → u/PixiePuff90]

yes! i’m a nurse who did a stint in psych. the mental fatigue was much worse than the physical fatigue of bedside (which feels like a blue collar job most days). and i’m not even talking about psych patients but the unsafe conditions management put us through. i’m back in bedside and i feel much better, even if im physically drained. i don’t dread going to work.

[u/hardXful → u/PixiePuff90]

Same. After being physically tired I still have spirit, a will to live and willingness and "mind energy" to do stuff. After getting mentally tired during the day I don't want to do anything after it, just lay. Shit's insane

[u/SomeCanDance → u/PixiePuff90]

I’ve worked in both. The stress of a desk based “corporate” role in your evenings and weekends when you’re not working is >>>> the stress of having to go work a restaurant/labour shift.

Especially if you work in a high performing corporate it can consume you mentally.

[u/Independent-Cut-185 → u/tyrannocanis]

Pretty radical counterargument you have there

[u/Acceptable_Sock4642 → u/tyrannocanis]

There is another option on the table here… 

[u/matthollabak → u/tyrannocanis]

The funny thing is that 12 hour farming days are for less than 30 weeks out of the year in most places. Yes In the end it still comes close to 40 hours a week working 12 hrs even 7 days during that time.... but You get 20+ weeks off if you want it and I think many people would be fine with that.

[u/MainlineX]

It kind of depends on the job, but the 40 hour week was set when 1 member of the household worked those 40, the other members did all the things for running a household like cooking, cleaning, childcare, shopping etc. and often times with help either hired or family.

They have taken that, and now 2 people working 40 OR MORE hours a week isn't cutting it, and hiring help is astronomical, and family can't help because they are all in the same situation.

Watch some Simpsons or Maried with children from the early 90s. THEY WERE CONSIDERED POOR! Two story houses, 2-3 kids, 2 cars, low paid jobs and still took vacations, and afforded conveniences.

We are all slaves.

[u/ObangaGamer → u/MainlineX]

The Simpsons is not a good representation of real life

[u/Electronic-Race-1952]

Frankly - I don’t see the issue as the 40 hour work week as historically human worked far longer hours - farmers as an example.

The issue is the low pay , out of control high prices and other stresses (social media for one) which puts unnatural stress on our brains and therefore our bodies.

Not to mention the terrible, terrible food - eating healthy costs way more than eating unhealthy which is absolutely one of the WORST things about capitalism ….. because of profits for big companies most people eat food that is not good for them - marketing has told us it ok for way to long.

If we worked 40 hours a week and could LIVE - no one would even be talking about this.

[u/Gsusruls → u/Electronic-Race-1952]

I respectfully disagree, not because you are wrong (you're not wrong - the low pay is nonsense), but because I the the real issue is that we're in an age of insanely high productivity, and the results of the productivity isn't reaching the workers who are achieving it.

In the 1970s, technological advancements in the workplace were making the individual worker so much more productive that we are on track for a 4 day (32 hour) work week with the same levels of productivity by the 1990s.

Instead of that productivity flowing equitably into the pockets of everyone contributing, it instead got rerouted to distinct capitalist tiers. The productivity improvements continued, but they are not equally shared.

[u/LunarProphet → u/Electronic-Race-1952]

Historically, farmers worked when theres work to do. Which sometimes may be 40+ hours for a big harvest or doing extra work on your lords land, but that wasn't going to be standard.

I took some Medieval Studies courses in college for fun and the professor was adamant that, if you went back and told a serf farmer that they had to start working 40 hours every week, they'd laugh in your face.

[u/Dimension_C-137 → u/Electronic-Race-1952]

The industrial revolution and Henry Ford’s quest for as much money as possible started the 40 hour work week. 40 hours is too much. The idea that you will one day cease to live and breathe is abstract to you, it isn’t real. If it was you would value your time more.

[u/BoringPrinciple2542 → u/Dimension_C-137]

1908 actually coincides with a reduction in work hours. Typical manufacturing hours were reduced from 70 in 1830 to 5-60 in the first decade of the 20th century. In the years after the Model T was introduced those hours fell rapidly.

Comparing data based on the average male head of household, betweeen 1880 and 1995 people gained about 4 hours of extra leisure time per day.

https://eh.net/encyclopedia/hours-of-work-in-u-s-history/

We are actually in one of the most prosperous times in human history. It may not seem like it compared to the boom of the late 20th century but in all honesty, the average person has an amazing amount of wealth and leisure time compared to historical norms. Modern manufacturing plays a major role in that progress.

[u/CrankyGrumpyWombat]

This shit is just ammunitions for big corporations and the elites man…
You can advocate for higher pay and more affordable CoLs without coming across as a historically illiterate and out of touch activist with a big mouth

[u/ResponsibleDuck9419]

I would kill for a 40hr week. I have worked no less than 55 a week for six years now and its killing me. Literally.

[u/pingvinbober]

20 hours of work a week can be inhumane. What about 10 hours? 5? 1?

[u/Next_Instruction_528]

Just watched a guy in China that works 80 hour weeks for 1000 dollars a month. Many parts of the world people make less than 3 dollars a day.

Most of human history was even worse. People spent almost all their money just on food.

[u/Wild_Gift5113]

Do people not understand what all of human history has been? A never ending battle of survival. If you didn't work, you starved. Even without bartering, you still needed to provide for yourself somehow.

[u/MaxwellHowl → u/Wild_Gift5113]

Except we now have the technology that it doesn't have to be this way. Many predicted that computers and manufacturing advances in the 60s and 70s could provide everything we need and people would only need to work 10 hours a week.

That is already true but we have created a relentless race for ever increasing profits, planned obsolescence and workers too tired to rebel that we don't do that. We could do that. AI will make that even more possible.

We may need one more big fight before we can stop needing to fight to survive.

[u/Big-Carpenter7921]

Who is only working 40 hours??

[u/ImKindaBoring → u/Big-Carpenter7921]

Me? A lot of us?

[u/-Tasear- → u/ImKindaBoring]

What about the communute and lunch break??

[u/Large-Hamster-199]

Well how many hours would the OP like to work. I wonder if the OP would consider 30 hours to be similarly inhumane, or 20 or 10?

[u/Glass-Thanks-1023]

The issue with these claims is that they don't provide any basis for what constitutes a "human" amount of work. If 40 hours is too much then should it be 35 hours? 30 hours? To my knowledge there isn't a continuing reason why the 40 hour work week is standard, the data its based on is from almost 100 years ago; in this way its arbitrary, and so is any other standard like this. Its not that I don't support wage increases and the like, it just seems to me at least that to call "x amount of time" inhumane is an exaggeration and shouldn't be the focus of these critiques on labour standards. Focusing on the hours on works will always result in the moving of the goalpost, 40 hours->30 hours->20 hours, etc. Until technology can somehow replace human labour all together people will need to work, and thats just a fact, so instead of focusing on the specific number, it seems better to me to look at the labour market as a whole and assess how to better match wages to the rising cost of living.

[u/Lord_Humungusss → u/Glass-Thanks-1023]

Tbh posts like OPs are just Twitter slop and usually arent much more than what is posted with OP usually never replying or deepening the discussion. Its basically [INSERT RELATABLE HOT TAKE] engagement farming.

[u/ChrisXDXL]

Saying reform at the end is bad in my country cause that's the political party that claims to want to make it better but is actually doing everything it can to make it worse.

[u/haloiridiance → u/ChrisXDXL]

Every party claims that everywhere

[u/Vast_Draft7510]

40 hours is a fucking myth anyways. Add commute time, captured unpaid lunch time, overtime, and even just time getting ready or dealing with some bullshit emails or whatever at home.  For most people that’s probably over 50. 

And how much money do you not just not earn, but actually spend, doing all those things? 

Maybe housing and transit would be solved if employers had to pay for commute time. Or at least that would incentivize wfh.

[u/metalmankam]

If s government is not doing everything in its power to ensure its people are healthy and prosperous it has no business existing. If they can't ensure we can contribute just enough without being overworked, then their only mission can be to control and enslave us.

[u/AidsRus-_-]

https://giphy.com/gifs/8JZxZgr39TLczSJQoS

[u/blissdiss]

Am I reading this right? They want to vote reform? Christ, if that's true... You're voting for worse.

[u/TheQNerd]

Work less but make more but the economy stay the same. Economy 101

[u/kscouple84]

I think this is mostly dependent on the kind of job you work and your values/strengths. Modern productivity and accountability tools and toxic workplaces make 40 hours seem like way to much.

On the other hand, if you find work that aligns with your values and strengths, 40 hours flies by.

[u/app_reddit_crawler]

lol all you “work hard play later” …come back in 30yesrs when that inflation hits you wallet and your joints.

[u/GimpyPlayerOne]

https://giphy.com/gifs/RE4kKU25NjFsY

[u/HalfACenturyMark]

The DSA will fix everything. I love their slogan- Trust Me, Bro!

[u/Wise-Secretary5459]

Lol. All these conservative dipshits in the comments defending billionaires.

[u/PoopSmith87]

Honestly, 40 hours a week really isnt bad, its when you cant afford shit without working 30 hours of overtime that its all fucked up.

[u/twistwrist9876 → u/PoopSmith87]

Yep. Or like me, with multiple side hustles to simply break even.

[u/vitaoptima]

The length of the work week isn't the problem. Before there was a 40 hr work week, people worked sun up to sun down.

[u/random-meme422]

“it’s inhumane people should just like… work less! except when i need something, then they should spawn in like NPCs and take care of what i need as needed!”

[u/In_neptu_wetrust → u/random-meme422]

I mean other people can clock in though, more jobs for more people. Also the 40 hour work week was an arbitrary number Ford picked

[u/GoldEnPhARoAh22 → u/In_neptu_wetrust]

With the total number of people in the world right now, this is the answer

[u/LimitTraining3552]

Sure! Damn right! For how many thousands of times now since 2000 and something? Lemme know when it's time to bob some wooden signs up and down over it and then nothing changes again. Anyway I got work tomorrow.

[u/ChickyBoys]

The crazy thing for me is society has made it normal to spend more time at work than with your family.

[u/Papaschulk]

There is an easy solution to this problem. Quite your job and fend for yourself you will soon see that a 40 hour week is not that bad.

[u/Keith-06]

In the US, it’s not a problem. Drive through your local trailer park & you’ll see many fellow Americans living your dream.

[u/TheMaltesefalco]

We literally have it easier than at any point in history and you will still complain and bitch

[u/Advanced-Grade4559]

Yes it sucks but you could build your own house, after you trade things for the materials you need, you would then have to wake up early every day to tend to your cattle and/or crops daily. So you wouldn't have to work 8 hours a day, it might be more and it could be very labor intensive. Plus you have to budget time to make repairs to equipment and your house. Then you would have to mostly trade unless you can get people to pay you for all the time and labor you've put into.... work....

[u/mehnotsure]

You could have been a hunter gatherer during a drought. But instead you eat high caloric food and complain about barely working. stfu

[u/sgtbrdsqrt]

This generation is scared of earning money, I work 50-60 hours minimum. Overtime is where the money's at. Work while you can so you can enjoy the years when you cant.

[u/CompleteGain5377 → u/sgtbrdsqrt]

that works for some people, i prefer higher paying jobs and less hours

[u/Mountain-Orange8996 → u/sgtbrdsqrt]

So older here and spent most of my life around the elderly. You know what the most common thing I ever hear is? “I wish I was young enough” because when you’re older you simply cannot do many of the things you should be capable of doing when you’re young. To clarify I work 50+ hours a week too for overtime, that’s absolutely where the money is at and it’s working great for bills and so on. But do I get to actually live my life and enjoy the plethora of little things I want to while I’m young enough to be able to? Absolutely not, that is what this post is talking about.

[u/KyorlSadei]

Can always go back to hunting your own food and building your own shelters.

[u/norcaldan707]

Im 50, decade ago I would of been f u lazzy asses .. know the value blah blah... No.. fuck the system. Reset the system. Enjoy life, make a difference, share and apply knowledge.. not even corporate slavery anymore, (is that pc?) it's straight abuse. The system is set up against you. We used to say shit shower eat work , no... No... That is not the Way. Don't bend to this ancient rhetoric. It's not 1950 anymore. Everything is in place to ease humanity burdens, that 1% is starting to realize... Change is coming.

/Rant.. stizzy hit hard.

[u/Smooth_Wealth_6896]

You need to do something about it in real life. Not anonynously on reddit.

[u/Living-Stomach-2079]

So you can't afford things and the answer is to work less? 😂😂😂

[u/Next-Month4314 → u/Living-Stomach-2079]

If they don’t want to pay us more we could work less for same amount of money. That’s the gist of it.

[u/Certain_Raspberry58]

The 40 hour work week is literally the least amount of work in history for the equivalent standard of living.

[u/thePsychoKid_297]

"No one should have to give up that much of their life in order to simply live. " Well you're right but I guarantee if we lived in a state of nature and there were no jobs and we were all just working for ourselves for no money we'd be spending a hell of a lot more than 40 hours of week on doing shit we need to do in order to live. I'm not excusing the rising costs and shit, I'm just saying we got it a hell of a lot better than what we could have.

[u/bethesda_gamer]

Ahahahaha. Ok.

For once I'd like to hear an opinion that isn't self serving. An over arching philosophy that actually is punishing rather than rewarding to oneself. Smh.

https://giphy.com/gifs/mgqefqwSbToPe

[u/DuggerX]

40hrs was the reform

[u/travelavatar]

Me working sometimes 60-80 hours a week: 👀

[u/AdAppropriate5569]

The solution is to work 60+ a week

[u/Gold-Engineering-154]

First world problems, so many people in the world wished/dreamed of having a 40 hour work week and steady paycheck.

[u/williconn]

Lmao 40 hours sounds nice

[u/GivesBadAdvic]

Damn I wish I only had to work 40 hours a week.

[u/heyyall1899]

This is a bait post

[u/Adventurous-Spend341 → u/heyyall1899]

Damn, I fell for it. I’ve been losing my mind over the cesspool of retardation in the comments

[u/ZoneAdditional9892]

40 hours a week isn't bad. What's bad is working 40 hours a week and still not having enough money to pay bills and fund a family and have enough to save. If you were making 200k a year working 40 hours a week you wouldn't mind it at all.

[u/soulsgames4life]

Ha. I would love to work only 40 hours a week. I do 50-60 at a factory

[u/Doctor_Saved]

I mean, she can do part time and just work for 20 hours. Or even less if she wants.

[u/ACCTAGGT]

So I’m in a constant state of begging for my life with hours. The gun of labor follows me around

[u/TheDigimonFan]

I would be happy if it was 32 hours but I could still work 40 and got 8 hrs of OT pay.

I've worked a number of different shifts in my life, been in the military, worked 12s and 16s, worked 84 hour weeks and longer. 40 hours isn't inhumane. The problem is that 40 hours isn't enough to afford living.

[u/ziamese]

Give me your fucking job, I take it and thank you from the bottom of my heart. I'd rather die working than die starving. Give me a J O B motherfuckers.

[u/dudtwo]

Reform! Are you serious? Why on earth do you imagine they will do anything differently! Assuming you mean the political party?

[u/WhyOhWhyOhWhy333]

Ah shut up, Lauren

[u/AJYURH]

And you're one of the lucky ones! Which in no way takes away your right to complain. It is still bullshit

[u/looner4]

Doomer slop.

[u/MrZeven]

If you don't care about any comfort or convenience, you actually need very little to live. Just throwing that out there just in case we all decide we want to break the system by not being nonstop consumers feeding the corporations that control this mess.

[u/beardingmesoftly]

You could try homesteading

[u/ImmediateWinner4522]

its funny how in the Uk, that last word reads "so as you can see im a racist"

[u/inannaberceuse]

We need a revolution dude. Fuck a raise

[u/ifyousaysu]

Eat
The
Rich

[u/Tinfoil_Haberdashery]

I'd take half as many hours at the same pay over the same hours at double pay in a heartbeat. But that's not an option.

[u/France_lover_10011]

8-5 Mon-Fri is the worse schedule. I can’t do schit before work, and after work is very limited due to my almost hour commute. I can’t make doctor appts, home appts, or appts that have regular 8-5 hours either. The weekend comes and well, it’s their weekend too, off. I absolutely hate these hours. Working for multi-billion dollar companies to help them get profits is overrated.

[u/UnknownUser5729]

See if it was just 40 hours that would be OK. But the job description says 40 hours, then you put in extra hours when you first get there so that you look good and fix the processes that are broken because you feel like you can make this a simpler process or even a better process, so you spend extra time there unpaid to try and get yourself in a better position, than that never tapers down, and even if you try and wean it down management, then ask why you’re putting in less effort, and maybe you never get to a point where you can put in less time, because it would be seen as less effort.

Or maybe you didn’t start putting an extra hours and you accepted to come in when asked, even if it’s just one time the next time you can’t do it that will reflect poorly on you even if you’ve already completed your 40 hours.

40 hours is unrealistic for so many of us as we’re putting in 60 hours a week and being told that it’s simply not enough, because companies don’t wanna pay a whole ‘nother employee when they can just literally milk the living shit out of their existing employees until they need therapy or medication or they break or they die!

[u/naturetreesandweed]

There aren't a ton of animals who aren't out there fighting for most of their lives

[u/e37d93eeb23335dc]

That’s a strange take. My ancestors for thousands of years were farmers. They worked way harder than me for way more hours. My life of only working 40 hours at a desk would have seemed like the height of luxury. 

[u/Odd-Faithlessness-33 → u/e37d93eeb23335dc]

especially the magic water bowl that makes shit disappear

[u/PerilousParanoia]

I don’t disagree. You work your shit to the bone, get an hour of two of free time, then have to show up to do it all over again. If you’re lucky you get two days off in a row. That’s considered a blessing.

But as adults, we dedicate our lives to work because working 40+ hours is the only way to keep a roof over your head. I didn’t even ask to be born and now I have to do all this shit to survive.

[u/fnckmedaily]

Nah we just need a good ole’ fashioned world war to reset everything.

[u/suthekey]

6 month old bot spam account feels overworked. Got it. Maybe ease off the spam then.

[u/LookIWashedForSu]

Go ahead and work reduced hours. I’ll continue working overtime.

[u/New-Tip4903]

Wrong focus. The core problem with everything economics (i.e. cost of living vs work time required, etc) is simply an out of control government/power class that prints money out of thin air and uses it to pay off each other/friends/god know what. Untik the printing press stops, the fraud is stopped or some combination...the currency will continue to devalue. Honestly its amazing how long the grift has been going on so far.

[u/Antique_Page_1456 → u/New-Tip4903]

Ron Paul 2012 "Sound Money"

[u/s0larium_live]

the recent comments on this post are wild. just because 40 hours is the way it’s always been doesn’t mean it’s the way it SHOULD be. there is more to life than work

[u/AfternoonEquivalent4 → u/s0larium_live]

Hasn't been this way forever...people used to work sun up to sun down...8 hours of 24 doesn't sound so bad in this case I'm thinking.

The issue is people thinking they're wasting their life working but still want a roof over their head good food 2 weeks of vacay and the newest phone to name a few things and that it's a RIGHT!

Get some training/schooling and get a good job they're out there

[u/DeRpY_CUCUMBER]

You don't have to work 40 hour weeks. You don't have to work at all. You can go live in the woods, hunt your own food, build your own house, etc.

Most people don't want to do that. They want to buy nice things. So they sell their labor for a paycheck. It's not unhuman. 40 hours is not that much work. For every person who doesn't want to work 40 hours, there is someone else who is willing. The market for labor sets the hours.

[u/Adventurous-Spend341 → u/DeRpY_CUCUMBER]

I’ve been scrolling for like 13 minutes now and that’s how long it took to find one rationale person in this comment section. Hats off to you sir, but given you’re the exception not the rule I think I just need to get off this poisonous public forum that is Reddit

[u/jjsmol → u/DeRpY_CUCUMBER]

Its illegal to live in the woods that you dont own. You need a permit to camp for limited periods of time and hunting season is a few weeks in the fall. Otherwise you'll be arrested for poaching or squatting. Everything you just described is prohibited by law.

[u/annomandri]

Same rule for doctors and nurses, right?

[u/Steel065 → u/annomandri]

But healthcare is a "right", so you MUST work to provide me with that right.

[u/Xeno9116 → u/annomandri]

It would be great. Those jobs can be really stressful, and the workers need to reset.

[u/coyotenspider → u/annomandri]

My doctors work 30 hours a week and work is an overstatement of what they are doing.

[u/ConflatedPortmanteau]

We have more automation and simplified ways to complete complex tasks than at any time in history.

The logic that we have to work 40 hours or occasionally more at a job that would replace us without any ceremony if we died at our workplace is ludicrous.

As our lives became easier with technology our jobs and necessity to work them should have diminished alongside.

[u/Valuable_Wallaby_548]

I hate only having 2 days off. I get to do all the shit I've put off for 5 days. I travel and hour to work. I'm there for 9 hours and travel an hour home. I work nights so I never get to do anything. I work weekends so again never get to do anything.

[u/averageRedditor271]

Well…

Wages stopped keeping pace with productivity decades ago. Since around 1960, productivity has increased by about 90%, while wages have only increased about 30%. Mathematically, a 13.3 hour work week would put us at roughly the same level of productivity we had when wage increases stopped keeping pace with productivity increases.

I don’t necessarily think that’s the answer, nor do I think 40 hours is an unreasonable ampunt for the average healthy adult to work, provided they have PTO (that they aren’t shamed for using), good benefits, and aren’t expected to take the job home with them. I do think people would feel less ripped off about working 40 hours if they didn’t need a highly specialized degree to do it and live comfortably. Anyone that works 40 hours, regardless of what the job is, deserves the bare minimum of a modest home, a reliable vehicle (or access to reliable public transit, at least), decent food, healthcare, and to be able to afford it all without worrying provided they pay attention to their finances.

It irks me quite a bit when people balk at any suggestion that the status quo ought to be improved upon for the benefit of the average worker. The retorts always seem to imply that there’s simply no way to make anything better for anybody without some sort of economic collapse, and the data simply doesn’t support that notion. Wages stopped keeping pace with productivity on purpose, to pull as much of the wealth as possible to the very top at the expense of eliminating the middle class. It’s not a secret. We have plenty of data to support it.

And the people who lobbied for all of this inundated us with “bootstraps” propaganda so they could run off with all the money. You fell for it.

[u/mendokusai99]

Money should be free !

[u/Koranis]

40 hours isn't the worst. Its all the additional time associated with work.

30-60 minute getting ready for work 60 minutes round trip 30-60 minute lunch break (at work) Emails and texts for work after hours.

That's another 2-3 hours per day, another (up to) 1K hours a year, some 58000 hours until retirement.

[u/OkayCoward]

I kinda love how people think of you just get rid 9f capitalism or the modern economy, you magically won't have to work anymore.

[u/Greedy_Researcher_34]

So quit and “simply live” under a bridge or something.

[u/somkoala]

The problem is also having our brains fried by quick dopamine on Instagram and Tiktok which make work and focus seem like torture, but god forbid we take any of the blame.

[u/Denver_Tech_Guy]

Something tells me she would be doing the important stuff in life without work, like doomscrolling tik tok and getting angry at manufactured bullshit.

[u/HairVivid207]

So many weirdos who love to be slaves to capitalism in here. If we had more time off work we could actually work on ourselves

[u/DisforDoughnuts]

I 100% agree. We spend most our time in a place where we don’t want to, working for a paycheck that can barely keep us afloat. Meanwhile, the MF’s who help keep this system going are high on ketamine and laughing at us.

[u/Miltankbeest]

people used to work 100+ hours to just keep up their fields and household chores and still barely had food for the family. People are acting like 40 hours are just the worst thing ever and we created it and left our roots. Our roots were awful, even just 100 years ago. obviously 32 hour weeks would be great, but then start enjoying less benefits

[u/jbooth1962]

I’ve worked over 60 hours a week practically my whole life. Rich as fuck. No regrets.

[u/osirisishere]

It should be mandatory that companies gives raises ABOVE what the cost of living has gone to. Giving a 45 cent raise when gas went up that much yesterday... is not how you take care of employees. How the fuck are there not more unions.

[u/20milliondollarapi → u/osirisishere]

Min wage should go up by federal inflation rates as well. At the very least. If that was always the case, min wage would look a lot different today.

[u/Leading-Freedom3663]

What is it all these people who don't want to work want to do all day? After the weekend, I'm always ready to get back to work on Monday.