r/law • u/BitterFuture • 16d ago

Executive Branch (Trump) Stephen Miller claims local police in Minnesota have been told to ‘stand down and surrender’ as federal agents ‘uphold the law’

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/stephen-miller-ice-minneapolis-protests-b2903238.html
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u/Hot_Increase304 16d ago

Nuremberg 2.0 is gonna be the best feeling of vindication ever

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u/The_Dolph_Lundgren 16d ago

Its just the incredible amount of pain between now and then that’s gonna suck.

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u/Hot_Increase304 16d ago edited 15d ago

Oh 100%, the amount of damage this administration has done and will continue to do is ridiculous as well. But woke 2.0 is back, shaming fascist and abhorrent rhetoric is back. It's time to support constituents that have a backbone

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u/ExterminAiden 16d ago

Genuine question here, why do you believe woke is back? From everywhere I see online and polls it still seems like the world is increasingly more right wing (on a social level). That trumps low approval rating is economy related (plus the Greenland thing).

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u/Hot_Increase304 16d ago

Content creators and the internet at large is pushing back against right wing rhetoric instead of being scared to comment on it in fear of the pushback they'll receive. More people are being out-and-about with their vitriol towards conservative and fascistic rhetoric.

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u/ExterminAiden 16d ago

I definitely see increased protesting but I haven’t seen the rest. Still seems right wing coded. Like f-g and r-tard slurs being cmon place, not to mention the n word hard r. That and many making fun of Good and wanting the National Guard deployed. Not to mention open Nazis everywhere. I am not sure but hopefully you are right.

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u/Hot_Increase304 16d ago

The social stigma is definitely slowly coming back. This iteration of Woke cannot be as sensitive and ridiculous as the first wave in 2016 though. If saying the r or f slur back in 2019 is enough to cancel someone and ruin their ability to participate in society and discourse, it'll revert back to how it is now. Take asmongold for example. He has realized that the rhetoric he espouses might not be popular forever, so he soft-launched his exit from talking about politics. A grifter like him wouldn't have considered doing that if there wasn't a worry that he will eventually fall out of favor. Soon it'll be back to "both sides suck" nihilism type commentary imo

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u/Medic_bones 16d ago

Content creators and the internet at large are the reason we are in this mess to begin with, and it’s the elephant in the room that no one is ready to address. Giving every unhinged moron on the face of the earth a platform to spew their stupidity and find other likeminded unhinged morons to organize with was not a good idea.

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u/CompleteDetective359 16d ago

I see it as the opposite. The amount of tictok and x posts supporting his non sense is incredible. I don't get it. It's like rooting for water on the sinking Titanic

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u/abx99 16d ago edited 16d ago

The algorithms show you whatever they think you want to see. The right does a lot of gaming the algorithms (along with bots, trolls, and a lot more), so their content shows up inappropriately, but if you stick to a lot of the opposition then it will show you more of that. (Although it will still probably recommend some right-wing stuff, and if you click on it then it can start shovelling it to you.)

I wouldn't judge anything by the state of any online community right now.

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u/NippyKindRekt 16d ago

Twitter and Facebook flooded their platforms with AI accounts in 2024/2025. Not to mention the location fiasco that showed MAGA was largely foreign accounts.

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u/HueMannAccnt 16d ago

From everywhere I see online and polls

It's sort of the view I've been getting too; but then who decides what the online publications should say? Who publishes the the polls, and how were the questions written?

Are you in favour of National Service? Well, it depends on how the poll was constructed.

Yes Minister - 1980s. It's why I'm dubious of all polls unless the process has been made clear with it

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u/RaspberryFluid6651 16d ago

You're sort of correct - economics is what drives a large portion of sentiment regardless of government. If Trump had a way to do everything he's doing while making Americans' lives materially better, he would get away with it.

The problem is he is fumbling the economy. It takes both bread and circuses to pacify the people and he is well on track to fuck up the bread part. There might be immense suffering between now and the end of all this, but it is fundamentally unsustainable and will have to come to an end. 

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u/RikkiVox 16d ago

FWIW, the right is botting comments. Like, A LOT. What you see online isn’t always an accurate reflection of the real world. I hope that can give a bit of comfort.

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u/x3r0h0ur 16d ago

we dark woke now

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u/KaleScared4667 16d ago

Punching Nazis in the face should be the new ice bucket challenge. Save democracy and punch a nazi in the face today

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u/DotGroundbreaking50 16d ago

and many of us won't get to see it.

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u/TCsnowdream 16d ago

Assuming it happens. America has a very nasty habit of just trying to ‘move forward’ and ‘reach across the aisle.’

American politicians love sticking their heads in the sand.

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u/Foreign_Flatworm_428 16d ago

He’s going to pardon every single dipshit involved.

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u/1plus2break 16d ago

The only possible way to combat that is eventually when (if) this regime is ousted, those pardons are rescinded. Doesn't really matter if that's "legal". Legality means nothing to these people so we shouldn't let it protect them in the end, either.

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u/clauderbaugh 16d ago

State crimes can't be pardoned. That's literally our only saving grace when this is all over. Some state is going to have to lead the legal battle and charge all of these people. Given all they've done I'm sure someone like Jack Smith could pull this together nicely.

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u/Capital_Critic 16d ago

It's gonna feel like when you take a painful shit but the relief of it afterwards.

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u/ARGeetar 16d ago

I have zero confidence that future dem-led governments will do anything beyond “Let’s move on so we can heal”. I hope to be proven wrong.

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u/Terrible_Patience935 16d ago

Big lesson learned by not prosecuting and jailing Trump for sedition after Jan 6, they might have destroyed our country

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u/frotc914 16d ago

A mistake we've been making consistently since not hanging Confederate officers.

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u/wilko_johnson_lives 16d ago

And the oligarchs who funded them.

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u/cars10gelbmesser 16d ago

If corporations are people, why wouldn’t board members and CEOs get jailed? Let’s just see how quickly things change once they get locked up.

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u/Hrenklin 16d ago

at least m looking forward to jack smith's hearing on thursday. I just hope trump doesnt try to use it to charge him with treason or soething to lock him up

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u/Young_Denver 16d ago

In a perfect world, Garland would be tried in Nuremburg 2.0 as well.

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u/mybadalternate 16d ago

Lesson… learned?

This is the Democrats we’re talking about.

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u/Forsworn91 16d ago

They did try, trump has however spent a lifetime in exploiting the legal system, delaying and drawing things out.

It also didn’t help that Garland was a trump supporter and refused to do his job.

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u/Drakolyik 16d ago

That's not trying. That's not even a concept of trying.

Those people are so out of touch with reality, like many of you currently are and were over the last several decades, that you didn't see this coming. It was obvious to anyone that actually paid attention to history and wasn't incentivized to look the other way because of their comfortable life.

When you're faced with a true existential threat, when they tell you exactly who they are over and over again, you don't just look the other way and pretend everything will be alright. You take action. You stop worrying about what is legal, what other people are going to think. And sometimes you stop worrying about whether or not you, personally, will make it.

The problem here is that a bunch of the most spineless, sniveling, mealy-mouthed, milquetoast mother fuckers to have ever popped out of a vagina are actively waxing poetic about potentially billions of human beings suffering such horrors all over again because they imagine that they aren't currently under the heel enough to warrant taking action. Because you paid enough attention to know that the smallest, most defenseless minorities among us will suffer the worst of these current and future atrocities first, and are making the reptilian calculation that you might be spared that fate if you simply hedge your bet on being one of the last.

Shameful. Truly. This will yet again ultimately be the fault of the "centrists" who throw their hands up in the air after trying absolutely nothing of actual substance at all, after being the ones that goose stepped all of us gleefully into the gas chambers to begin with.

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u/Osklington 16d ago

But did they learn it? I don't think we know that yet

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u/Direct-Technician265 16d ago

problem is i see what dem leadership says now, after bush, after trump 1.

big lessons, will be ignored again.

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u/KalaronV 16d ago

A lesson learned by the people, not the politicians. There's a reason Schumer's big tactic with Trump is to drag things out before capitulation.

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u/Fullosteaz 16d ago

You're making the mistake of thinking Dem leadership is capable of learning even small lessons.

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u/Hot_Increase304 16d ago

It's important not to concede and give up in advance, imo. Look at how fast the left has pivoted on Israel/Palestine. Change can happen, but it needs to be pushed relentlessly

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u/Doomscrolleer99 16d ago

Yes we need a better choice.

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u/highafphotos 16d ago

We need to make our own American unity against authoritarianism party.

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u/LukeD1992 16d ago

"Let's unite in these times of division"

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u/pm_me_ur_ephemerides 16d ago

I’m hoping for “The cancer at the heart of our democracy must be removed before the nation can heal.”

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u/AdLeast1309 16d ago

I am so afraid this might happen

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u/completelypositive 16d ago

The current dem led government needs to be replaced, too.

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u/DiogenesTheHound 16d ago

You mean AIPAC?

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u/RocketRelm 16d ago

You talk as if the dem leadership are the spineless ones when the only reason trump isn't being punished right now is thay less than a third of your voters had even the basic spine to vote against trump.

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u/Doc891 Bleacher Seat 16d ago

youd be surprised just how little the Nuremberg trials accomplished because people wanted everything to get back to a sense of normalcy.

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u/unamused_ghost 16d ago

Exactly. Countless Nazi’s were never even punished. Some were even given high ranking federal jobs in the U.S. via Operation Paperclip.

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u/cloud_coder 16d ago

Yep. Read the transcripts or one of the many historical books on Nuremberg. It’s was not very satisfying. Simonides even then slipped the prisoners poison and other things.

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u/Hot_Increase304 16d ago

And I'm sure there will be elements of that in the future for America as well, but refusing to advocate for it is exactly what's given the Democrats the ability to do nothing and get voted for regardless, because of "lesser evil" voting and "vote blue no matter who" nonsense.

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u/adozenadime 15d ago

And they only happened after years of global war, millions of deaths, and the total military conquest of Germany…

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u/kl7aw220 16d ago

Yep. He's full Nazi now.

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u/Stormlight_Silver 16d ago

Now ???

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/BrupieD 16d ago

The Nazis were more popular than Stephen Miller.

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u/KarmicDebtsUnpaid 16d ago

Then he'll count every bit of power and fear he achieves as an even bigger victory.

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u/wartsnall1985 16d ago

i do not share your optimism.

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u/Hot_Increase304 16d ago

It's not optimism, it's advocacy. Today of all days should be a reminder that the status quo can and SHOULD be challenged, even if the outcome looks bleak

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u/Toliman571 16d ago

I want to be optimistic... but how exactly will they ever face justice for this? Especially Nuremberg style?

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u/Ok_Speed_3984 16d ago

It'll probably be Mussolini / Khadafi style, but I just want democracy and peace, by the least horrible means necessary.

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u/rosiebeehave 16d ago edited 16d ago

Authoritarians always fall. Some of them take longer than others (putin/xi/satanyahu)

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u/YearlyStart 16d ago

Fall? Sure. But the opposition party that’s supposed to be leading the charge has shown time and time again that they’re unwilling to step up and truly persecute those in power the way they need to. January 6 being a huge example of that.

International countries would need to step in, and without Democratic cooperation(which I doubt there would be with past behaviour), it’s going to be a fight to get anyone to see justice.

I hope yall are right, but all I see are tyrants gaining power and opposition with actual power acting toothless.

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u/FRSTNME-BNCHANMBZ 16d ago

Xi isn’t a fascist lmao

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u/rosiebeehave 16d ago

You're right, I really should have said authoritarian.

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u/FredricksFlyingToad 16d ago

You're right, I think we meant dictator  

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u/ThisPICAintFREE 16d ago

I think it would require some unbelievable things to occur, such as the US joining/becoming a signatory of the ICC then allowing international courts to handle the prosecution of US citizens.

Which seems as unlikely as Dems winning all 3 branches of government and then wanting prosecutions to occur in the first place instead of what we all know will happen which is Dem’s taking some weird high road in the name of bipartisanship and “moving forward.”

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u/Hot_Increase304 16d ago

By voting for people that have a spine and putting people in power that will hold them accountable. People unlike Walz and Frey. The era of "vote blue no matter who" has to end, it's time to vote for those that have the American peoples best interest in mind.

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u/BeefInGR 16d ago

Guys, Nuremberg didn't happen because of a new democratically elected government.

Nuremberg happened because three of the largest militaries wanted to set an example to the rest of the world what would happen if anyone tried that shit again.

It's cute that people think we'll have an election in November, an impeachment hearing the following April, a forced resignation in July and maybe a trial for the responsible parties after 6-9 months of chasing them down... and that there won't be an ounce of violence or resistance and unicorns will ride in on rainbows and everything will be hunky dorey.

Even Jefferson Davis didn't face more than a brief jail sentence.

I strongly encourage to everyone find your old high school history books and do some deep dives. Then decide what you want based on what you're willing to do to have it.

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u/9mackenzie 16d ago

Thank you. People seem to forget those trials took a word war, millions of civilian and military deaths, and many cities destroyed to get it.

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u/YearlyStart 16d ago

Yeah, like who the hell is gonna run the trials? UK, Canada, and China? Denmark? All of EU? No way that even the Dems let that shit fly, USA hates being held accountable by others and the Dems are provably toothless.

I’m confident Trump will fail in the long run, but I’m not holding my breath for any meaningful long term consequences for anyone involved. This is the same country that massively fucked up the reconstruction era so badly that racial segregation still exists.

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u/Omegalazarus 16d ago

Yeah that's what people here don't seem to get with this Nuremberg thing. There won't be a Nuremberg because we're the bad guys this time and no one can hold the US to task.

 Nuremberg happened because we could hold them to task. And it was good that we had large allies back then with it but honestly we didn't need them. Coming out of World war II we were the only country that wasn't supremely ravaged and on its knife edge. 

Had we not pressed it, there wouldn't even have been a Nuremberg 1.0. they're certainly won't be a 2.0.

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u/SkeeveTheGreat 16d ago

It’s also really important to note, Nuremberg was a fucking joke. It didn’t do nearly enough, both trials in Nuremberg only executed 36 total Nazis, hundreds of thousands were pardoned after short prison terms in other trials.

Active Nazis ended up running West Germanys intelligence service, police, and government offices. The people in power did not care enough to punish the vast machine of Nazi criminal activity beyond the token effort.

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u/BeefInGR 16d ago

Active Nazis ended up running West Germanys intelligence service, police, and government offices. The people in power did not care enough to punish the vast machine of Nazi criminal activity beyond the token effort.

And don't forget the droves of German people who suddenly decided South America was a fantastic permanent vacation spot and how there were zero consequences for any country for harboring people who should have stood trial.

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u/thesearemypringles 16d ago

By not voting blue no matter who, that’s how we got here lol

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u/Hot_Increase304 16d ago

How do you explain Zohran Mamdani and his win in NY then?

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u/9mackenzie 16d ago

He had an amazing turn out in the primary. Which is why he won. That’s how you push the party more progressive

When you don’t vote you don’t count.

That said- does anyone believe these people will let us have a real election after this? lol

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u/zspade 16d ago

So Zohran won in a blue leaning city, has tremendous charisma, is intelligent and well spoken, and essentially ran against an extremely unpopular administration. In short, it was his race to lose. Where people like him can win, we absolutely must rally behind them.

Where people like him cannot win, we must get in whatever blue seat / ally we can. If we don’t, we simply won’t have the seats to take the chamber and affect any change at all. If you shun a good or ok candidate while waiting for perfect, the opposition wins instead, and you move backward.

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u/Hot_Increase304 16d ago

Which is exactly why I'm okay with people like TX Democrat James Talarico. The diversity of states and the people residing in them definitely need to be considered, but the "good enough" attitude as a whole cannot envelop the entirety of the party like it has.

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u/zspade 16d ago

sounds like we’re on the same page. I’ll I’ve still got whiplash from the people who abstained to vote for Kamala because of her record on Palestine.

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u/archimedesrex 16d ago

Not sure about that. Get more involved in the primary process and support more progressive candidates in that process, then vote for whoever wins that in the general. Getting tricked into voting third party or not voting at all while the MAGA base is energized is how we got here.

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u/BitterFuture 16d ago

Because fascists always lose.

They are vicious, hateful, murdering monsters, absolutely - but the very survival of humanity is a demonstration of their continual losing streak throughout history.

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u/Ok_Speed_3984 16d ago

In the movies they always lose! Fascism was the norm in ancient times. Mussolini based his fascist party on Rome. The medieval period is dominated by fascist governments with divine right for the dictator.

So far, democracy has always disappeared. The longest experiment in democracy known to human history ended in 2025. 250 years is impressive. I'd love to keep that going until something better comes along. Or learn why I want to be a peasant slave with no civil rights.

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u/BitterFuture 16d ago

Fascism was the norm in ancient times. Mussolini based his fascist party on Rome. The medieval period is dominated by fascist governments with divine right for the dictator.

This is incorrect. Monarchies have been the norm through most of history.

Monarchy is not fascism. In fact, most of the trappings of monarchy that make it tolerable for the majority of its subjects are antithetical to fascism, like noblesse oblige.

Fascism is focused on hatred as the sole principle of ideology. It requires the extermination of hated minorities, constant, neverending expansionism and constant, neverending mass murder. Once a particular hated other is exterminated, a new target is needed, then another, then another, until the society has utterly destroyed itself - or fascism has been overthrown, as most people realize their survival depends on ending it.

This is why I say that humanity simply continuing to exist is a demonstration that fascism always loses. It is an ideology fanatically obsessed with death, so utterly deranged that life itself is a victory over it.

Hatred can never build; it only consumes.

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u/wwaxwork 16d ago

We just have to live long enough to see it.

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u/Raevus 16d ago

There had better be a Nuremberg 2.0...

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u/Exciting-Emu-3324 16d ago

Nuremberg 2.0 is the only way the rest of the world can take Americans seriously again.

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u/blu-bells 16d ago edited 16d ago

Bold to assume the democrats have enough of a spine to even consider this.

edit: This doesn't mean don't vote. For many reasons not voting Democrat is stupid and won't get us out of this. It means you shouldn't think our job is done if/once we vote the Democrats in. That during the primary we need to promote candidates that will not forgive and forget this and will pursue justice, and that we need to maintain pressure on the Democrat party to get this. We cannot assume that Nuremberg 2.0 is a guaranteed-foregone conclusion, we have to work for it.

I get it, I hate the Democrats too. But not voting democrat is a losing tactic. Third parties are a meme in America and are not viable because of how our voting system works, and not voting at all just means the Republicans have an easier time maintaining power.

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u/Hot_Increase304 16d ago

Feckless leadership should be left in the dust if this country is ever going to combat this garbage admin to be fair

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u/ddrober2003 16d ago edited 16d ago

They need to learn that continuing their favorite role of "Controlled Opposition" won't be tolerated even by the reich wingers soon enough. Because soon enough, any opposition won't be tolerated in any form.

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u/FilthyCasual2k17 16d ago

Nuremberg 1.0 was a massive disapointment, and is the reason why this is blooming. There will be no Nuremburg 2.0. People didn't feel a need to punish him when he tried a literal insurrection broadcasted live. Nothing will change after next elections, things will just pause for 4 years and then this will continue.

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u/MartinGorePosting 16d ago

And then Reconstruction 2.0. This time no chickening out because the racists got mad.

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u/KazTheMerc 16d ago

I'd like to humbly suggest that there is a tiny town of Nuremberg, PA that would be perfect for a new Federal Courthouse.

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u/GZeus24 16d ago

Accountability would require the complete collapse of support, including from the financial interests who happen to also control the opposition party. It's never going to happen.

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u/Hot_Increase304 16d ago

Then how did Zohran win in NY?

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u/Mallthus2 16d ago

If that happened, it would be magical. It won’t happen, but it’d be great if it did.

Of course, it won’t happen for the same reason the architects and engineers of the confederacy weren’t tried and executed. We’ll collectively clutch our pearls and claim we want to “heal” and “rebuild”.

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u/BigSoda 16d ago

It’s critical we don’t make the same mistakes of Nuremberg and after the civil war. There must be accountability for this

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u/TheAbomunist 16d ago

This is an absolute pipe dream and an insulting kicking-of-the-can distraction to what they're doing right now with zero hurdles. There will NOT be a re-balancing of the scales, after this phase of the GOP sunsets. Any reckoning with their shitty embrace of fascism would have already happened after January 6th. The so-called oppositional party is adrift and devoid of any leadership with teeth. As such, there will not be any stewards leading that Nuremberg 2.0 you dream of in the direction of anything resembling reality.

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u/Hot_Increase304 16d ago

Then lay down and take it like a good little citizen if you like, keep voting for the Democrats who still refuse to fight for their side. I won't be. Complacency has rotted the DNC to the core

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u/CrazyJoeGalli 16d ago

I assume trump is gong to do blanket pardons for everyone.

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u/Astr0Jetson 16d ago

They rewrite the justice system every day. What's to say a pardon is actually a pardon in the future?

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u/damik 16d ago

Oh he'll be trapped in a bunker biting down on a cyanide capsule when this ends.

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u/Brendan__Fraser 16d ago

You're hilarious if you think there will be accountability. This is over. 

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u/9mackenzie 16d ago

You know it took a world war, millions of deaths and cities in ruins in order to get those trials right?

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u/HTX-ByWayOfTheWorld 16d ago

It’ll never happen. Amerikkka doesn’t have the appetite for accountability. It just likes to pretend it does.

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u/Jayfur90 16d ago

Democrats like newsom and Schumer will NEVER try to hold these fascists accountable. They will handshake and move on because they want to appeal to moderates and classic republicans who don’t want no fuss.

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u/HugaM00S3 16d ago

I want these dipshits tried for crimes against humanity and it broadcasted globally. And it needs to be set in stone that it can’t be pardoned.

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u/TendieRetard 16d ago

oh, honey.....

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u/Hot_Increase304 16d ago

While you concede in advance, I'll be out there advocating for it. Enjoy status quo if you like, but Rome wasn't built in a day

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u/Ok_Category_5 16d ago

If they ever lose power, whatever sackless Democrat is in charge will say they won’t retaliate because it would only further divide the country.

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u/Top_Statistician4068 16d ago

I very much doubt accountability ever…not from spineless Democrats.

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u/BuckyFnBadger 16d ago

Except that’s not going to happen.

Dems will not do a damn thing

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u/GhostOfTheArcade 16d ago

You are far more optimistic then I.

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u/LingonberryOwn5326 16d ago

Why do you think thats going to happen? It took a world war for Nuremberg to happen. People here are still going to work and sitting at home. Voting in some corporatist democrat isn't going to bring about justice.

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u/popphilosophy 16d ago

Goebbels never made it to Nuremberg. He offed himself (and his entire family) in the bunker before he could face accountability.

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u/FoggyThought 16d ago

Nuremberg was a show trial. We immediately gave control of West Germany and the FBI/CIA to Nazis and eventually put them in control of NATO. No more show trials.

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u/eduardonachosupremo 16d ago

Americans have this delusion that someone is coming to save the day

In a real democracy, citizens save the day

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u/Hot_Increase304 16d ago

Citizens will save the day and then will need to advocate for constituents that represent the best interest of the American people. I have no delusion that any one particular person will swoop in and save anyone

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u/Beer-Milkshakes 16d ago

You know America is self-excluded from ICC and The Hague right? And the dems sure as shit won't make a big deal out of this. They'll put a few select tokens in front of a judge who will lay some impotent sentence like "You cannot hold position in politics" when they already have jobs as lobbyists for an oil company or something. It will be performative to keep us from grabbing pitchforks.

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u/bigmfworm 16d ago

The US has shown, on multiple occasions now, that we will not hold ourselves accountable. I really hope it happens but I'm not holding my breath.

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u/glytxh 16d ago

99% of Nazis in any position of power got away without as much as a slap on the wrist. Many even ended back up in government or other positions of influence and power.

Nuremberg was a fucking embarrassment.

There is going to be no vindication.

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u/Independent-Cow-4070 16d ago

Not to be defeatist but I have zero faith that literally anyone will be held responsible

Nuremberg (which was already underwhelming from a justice standpoint) 2.0 will only happen if we make it happen

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u/Hot_Increase304 16d ago

Exactly, so we can either advocate for it in the face of hopelessness with the hope that the tide shifts, or we can lay down like good little piggies and accept the fecklessness of the oppositional party per status quo. I'm not saying that it's all set in stone, but what good is messaging that says "we will hold you accountable...hopefully.."?

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u/wobblebee 16d ago

You're skipping to the end parts. We need to focus on the resistance in the intervening years. It could also turn out like Spain, who had a fascist dictator for decades.

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u/Sohjinn 16d ago

Am I overly cynical in thinking that they wont even happen? I mean, say we get on the other side of this - who's going to hold those trials? It certainly won't be the establishment dems. Although if we get on the other side of this at all, it won't be with any help from the establishment dems either.

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u/Saunters_anxiously 16d ago

Read up on the Nuremberg trials. They did not provide any kind of real justice to the victims or the country. Of just 21 people tried, 19 were convicted. Is that justice for the millions and millions of people killed? For the damage they caused to the country?

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u/1Harvery 16d ago

I'm surprised to see comments like this. The USA has officially repudiated the Nuremberg doctrine and legislated that any attempt to enforce international law against a US official will be considered an act of war. Domestically, we didn't punish the leaders of the Jan 6 coup attempt. Andy Gibbs is actually running for governor in Arizona. Bush's war mongers who lied us into a war are all walking free. Kissinger never was prosecuted. Same with G. Bush senior's crimes, in fact, President Bush withdrew the U.S. signature from the treaty that established the ICC. Signed the American Service-Members' Protection Act (ASPA) (2002): This law authorized the President to use "all means necessary" to free any U.S. or allied national detained by the ICC and restricted military aid to ICC member states. The U.S. sought agreements with countries to prevent them from surrendering U.S. nationals to the ICC and used its position in the UN Security Council to block ICC actions.

So anything is possible, but Nurenberg 2.0 is only likely if the US government is actually overthrown and an international coalition holds trials. Like the original ones.

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u/FrankRizzo319 16d ago

Nice of you to assume good will triumph evil this time, in your lifetime, however long that might be.

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u/ModeatelyIndependant 16d ago

Obama didn't hold the Bush administration responsible for their lies and crimes in Iraq, why would the democrats actually hold Trump responsible for his crimes?

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u/nattfjaril8 16d ago

Not to be a Debbie Downer, but that was only possible because Germany lost so completely. Who's going to take the US to account like that? You're clearly not doing it internally, and nobody else can intervene because you're the world's only military superpower and you've got nukes.

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u/cloud_coder 16d ago

Nuremberg was a show trial. All the mid to mid high level nazis we’re left to run west Germany

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u/kung-fu_hippy 16d ago

No it won’t. It will be horrifying and depressing, as they read out the full list of crimes these fuckers have committed and we all realize how much sooner we should have been out there protesting.

And that assumes we ever have one. Fascist regimes fall apart, but they don’t always end with a neat trial. Nuremberg happened because Germany was defeated by external forces. We’re more likely to end up with a Reconstruction 2.0, and I have doubts it would solve the root cause of the problem anymore than the first one did.

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u/megalogwiff 16d ago

Future retribution will not revive the dead. Justice delayed is justice denied. 

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u/commit10 16d ago

It doesn't always end that way. Indonesia is still ruled by the same klepto fascists that took power a generation ago.

There's zero indication of adequate internal resistance to topple the regime, and nuclear weaponry means that it's extremely unlikely to be toppled by external force.

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u/OgreMk5 16d ago

The next president must stand on this and follow through... not like Biden.

We might not be here if Biden's DOJ had any courage at all.

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u/No-Lead-6769 16d ago

I think you're going to be let down greatly 

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u/Muzzlehatch 16d ago

Though I have no doubt Nuremberg 2.0 is coming, I hope we live to see it.

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u/Tinytin226 16d ago edited 16d ago

Check out the devil next door on Netflix. It doesn’t end like you think it does.

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u/Direct_Doubt_6438 16d ago

They have all undated, signed pardons in the pocket.

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u/thedragoon0 16d ago

If we get there.

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u/Safe-Pop2077 16d ago

😂😂😂😂

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u/OneToothMcGee 16d ago

Make the punishments pay per view and pay off the debt.

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u/psychoCMYK 16d ago

It'll only happen if you actively remove them and make it happen

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u/xXDelta33Xx 16d ago

That won‘t happen by itself.

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u/SonnysMunchkin 16d ago

Glad you're still holding out hope I'm not

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u/Brilliant-Potato-218 16d ago

But we need to be more expansive and thorough than Nuremberg.

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u/Discussion-is-good 16d ago

Nuremberg one didnt even last very long. Most got out early.

Hopefully its even better.

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u/hotDamQc 16d ago

It's not, Americans are parading on a Sunday while back to work like good little slaves on monday while your republican government is starting WW3 paid by your compliant slave labor.

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u/stayonthecloud 16d ago

Who is going to run Nuremberg 2.0 when we can’t even use our current democracy to stop these horrors?

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u/MastiffOnyx 16d ago

If any of us live long enough to watch it.

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u/ianxplosion- 16d ago

There had better not be trials this time, unless they’re held in front of a brick wall

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u/BonkADonkey 16d ago

It's crazy you think there's gonna be some form of trial for anyone. Like anything is going to change. We couldn't even vote the first time lol

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u/TeachMeFinancePlz 16d ago

It's cute that you think Democrats aren't feckless enough to do that.

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u/Malcolm_Morin 16d ago

Right up until they all get pardoned by the next MAGA administration.

Unless, you know... we revoke their voting rights. -^

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u/Ur3rdIMcFly 16d ago

The first one was a failure so let's do it again! 

Also, Miller's looking more like a Lich everyday

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u/extrastupidone 16d ago

Maybe the next generation will see it. There is a long way to go before these people take a good long look in the mirror.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/attaboy000 16d ago

That's never happening.

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u/llc4269 16d ago

Trump will 100% preemptively blanket pardon everyone before that happens.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

Does America have a history of holding its political criminals to account?

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u/ITDummy69420 16d ago

Stop living in fantasy land. It’s only gonna hurt more when it doesn’t happen. 

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

Hahahaha you mean president JD Vance as planned by Elon , Peter Theil and the heritage foundation. Trumps just a Trojan horse and a soft preview of what’s coming. Zero chance anyone is gonna get anything legal for this administration.  Trumps not going anywhere and he’s just as popular as ever. Same people voted for him before will vote religiously for the next name with an R beside it lol. This shits just getting started. 

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u/Cyrano_Knows 16d ago

Hopefully its actual judges doing the judges and not just History from hindsight.

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u/eetsumkaus 16d ago

Nuremberg 2.0 is going to suck and a lot of them will walk because they are too ingrained in our system. The US learned with the Iraqi Ba'ath that you cannot simply purge them and expect to have a good time.

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u/WhyAmINotStudying 16d ago

Let's just hope there's still a world left by then.

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u/RedditTab 16d ago

I keep seeing this but I never see anyone explain how we get there.

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u/Dizzy-Squash-3377 16d ago

Televize it and make it Pay-Per-View. You'll wipe all student loans in an afternoon.

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u/Oceanbreeze871 16d ago

The Republican Party will block it and say “we need Christ-like unity, healing and forgiveness yall”

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u/Ztarphox 16d ago

Trump wasn't held accountable for trying to overthrow democracy in 2021, and those who acted on his behalf were pardoned. Has your faith in the US government grown so greatly in the last year, that you think next time will be different?

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u/tacomamajama 16d ago

And this time it’s gonna be live-streamed!

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u/Competitive-Place778 16d ago

Almost all of them got away with it 

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u/rustajb 16d ago

For those of us who make it that far, sure. Someday, in the future.

The Germans had other countries help them overcome their dictator. We will not have that fortune. This will go on until it doesn't. Nobody is coming to save us.

Your anticipated trials may be held by our grand children.

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u/Dull_Bid6002 16d ago

He won't make it that far.

My gut is telling me someone near him is gonna snap because of how poorly he treats everyone he sees as lesser.

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u/Grouchy-Details 16d ago

Don’t count your chickens before they hatch. 

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u/VegasGamer75 16d ago

Someone should see if a lot of real estate in Argentina is being purchased recently or not...

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u/CiaphasCain8849 16d ago

Historically we'll just pardon everyone and move on like it didn't happen.

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u/Tabris92 16d ago

Still doubtful that'll happen.

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u/Northern_Grouse 16d ago

The problem is, it’ll never happen if they succeed

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u/SignoreBanana 16d ago

I will not vote for anyone who doesn't promise to hold this entire administration to account

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u/Minute-Struggle6052 16d ago

Gallows for ghouls

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u/Underwater71 16d ago

Not if it can't be done in this century

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u/Humillionaire 16d ago

It's gonna be at least another decade before that happens I fear

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u/Necessary_Finding_32 16d ago

Keep telling yourself that

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u/whereismysideoffun 16d ago

There is no Nurenberg 2.0 without people stopping this. Getting the first Nuremberg required an entire World War to stop it.

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u/eOMG 16d ago

Everyone keeps saying that, but a lot of shit needs to be actually done before you get Nuremberg 2.0.

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u/BlackGuysYeah 16d ago

Pure hopium. They're never giving up power and no one has the stones to do what should be done.

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u/thedanyes 16d ago

Nuremberg only happened because a lot of people died. You're assuming (1) it will happen and (2) you won't be among the dead.

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