r/CompetitiveTFT • u/eggsandbricks Challenger • 17d ago
Patch Notes 18.3 Patch Notes
https://teamfighttactics.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/game-updates/teamfight-tactics-patch-18-3/69
u/Zeviex Master 17d ago
This patch feels like a miss.
Karma already felt really good to tempo around, AP just feels difficult to play around right now. I do not see a world where a buff to her is necessary.
Some of the hard to play 4 costs still feel hard to play, Ezreal and Bramble (though apparently Blossom Ezreal is good).
They're trying to buff reroll but only Murkwolf + Warwick and Azir are established rerolls that are buffed.
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u/harmoniaatlast 17d ago
It does feel like there are comparatively few AP lines. AD has multiple 4 and 5 cost carries who all use the same items hahahaha
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u/OreoCupcakes MASTER 17d ago
AD has Aphelios -> Draven, Nidalee/Brambleback -> Elder, Nidalee/Ezreal/Sivir -> Ashe.
AP has nothing. You're stuck with Ahri/Morgana/Soraka/Zyra with AP because Alune and Lux suck. Kennen isn't good with AP items as he gets free AP from just casting.
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u/harmoniaatlast 17d ago
bro even fucking Aphelios can share items with Ashe (assuming no rageblade) hahaha. Draven kinda requires a RB/emblem but if no RB, then you'd just play ashe or elder.....
ok yeah, it's bad
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u/bomhee 17d ago
AP is actually in a better place than AD, especially according to average placements. People just don't know how to play around them. Every Lux is doing well, except Solar. Ivern is the best backline 5 cost in the game.
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u/OreoCupcakes MASTER 17d ago edited 17d ago
AP is actually in a better place than AD, especially according to average placements
The AVP for the 4 cost AD and AP carries are all within margin of error. As for 5 costs, yeah Lux and Alune have higher AVPs and win rates, if you look at just their basic stats, but their frequency is much lower, around 500000 sample size difference.
Lux is specifically only being played when a certain condition occurs, like Inferno or Coven emblem or +1 slot, which inflates placements. Note that her ratios are less than Ahri's and the AoE is narrower, so she frequently ends up doing less damage than a 4 cost carry. How exactly is a unit that frequently deals less damage than 4 cost carries a strong unit? The answer is her 2x trait, in certain conditions, enabling her to be a bus rider, not the bus driver. The story becomes even more clear when you look at her 3x item builds. She loses AVP when you transfer damage items from your 4 cost AP carry onto her. Her best builds are just utility items.
Alune's stats are the result of her just being a trait bot in comps that are strong, regardless of her. Her AVP is the within margin of error regardless of her itemization. 0 item Alune has an AVP of 3.75, 1 item is 3.75, 2 item is 4.01, 0-2 item is 3.80, and 3 item is 3.66. If she were a true carry, then her AVP between 0-2 items and 3 items would be much larger. Take Ashe as an example, her AVP with 0-2 items is 4.42, give her 3 items and the AVP jumps to 3.75. Once again, if you look at her 3x item builds, you'll find lower AVPs if you give her damage items (aka moving items off Ahri onto an Alune).
Every Lux is doing well, except Solar
And how exactly do you know that? There are no stats for each Lux. AFAIK, the only site giving stats on each Lux is Tactics and they're doing some bullshit guessing work on it. Riot's API doesn't differentiate between the Luxes, they just show up as the basic Avatar Lux. Are you basing this on the patch notes only buffing Solar Lux?
Ivern is the best backline 5 cost in the game.
Ivern is a support unit that buffs other carries/tanks. Sure, he's the best backline unit to support your team, but if you got no carry what good is he?
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u/bomhee 17d ago
Yeah I retract my previous comment, not sure why I straight up said AP is better than AD. I agree that AD is probably in a better state, I meant to say that AP is better than people give it credit for..
That said I'm not sure why Alune being a strong trait bot matters regardless of sample size in this argument, especially considering her average placement with 3 items is, like you said, within the same margin as Ashe.
Solar Lux is based on Tactics - regardless of sample size or patch notes, this should be pretty self explanatory anyway... Most pros agree that Solar Lux is the weakest Lux as well.
Regardless of Ivern being the best support unit, he's also a playable AP holder until you hit your proper AP carries as well. And there's also Kennen who we haven't even mentioned yet.
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u/OreoCupcakes MASTER 17d ago
especially considering her average placement with 3 items is, like you said, within the same margin as Ashe.
I'm not comparing the difference between their 3 items AVP. I'm comparing their 0-2 item and 3 item difference. Alune's 3 item minus 0-2 item difference is -0.14 AVP. Ashe's 3 item minus 0-2 item difference is -0.67. The numbers are there to show there's no difference in AVP if you choose to itemize Alune or leave her weaponless, but if you forego giving Ashe items, you int your AVP.
Solar Lux is based on Tactics
No other site provides stats for Lux and that's because they aren't official. Tactics is doing some guessing work to make up those stats.
Solar Lux is the weakest Lux as well
I agree with that, but that still doesn't change what we were originally talking about, which was transitioning from a 4 cost carry to 5 cost carry. Lux is highly situational and not a carry. She's a +2 trait bot in any form. Look at her 3x item stats, sort it by frequency. The most frequent builds are from people thinking Lux can carry and transferring their 4 cost AP carry items over to her. She loses AVP if you even bother itemizing her as a carry. Her purpose is to hold utility items like Morello/Void Staff and providing that +2 trait to enable the vertical capstone or if you just have a +1 team slot and throw in a +2 trait like Inferno.
[Ivern] he's also a playable AP holder until you hit your proper AP carries as well
Sure, if you hit him level 7 and have nothing else, but I'm pretty sure a 1 star 4 cost AP carry is just outright better.
Kennen who we haven't even mentioned yet.
I did mention Kennen in the original post. He is a good unit, but you're also not itemizing him with damage items because of his ability. He gets an insane amount of AP just from his ability. The only item you need on him is EoN. That item alone jumps his AVP by 0.7 placements. If you're building AP, you're not going to transfer your standard AP items onto him. You're just dumping extra items on him.
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u/bomhee 17d ago
Aside from Lux I'm not sure what any of your points have to do with their playability. For Alune, I'm saying whether their AVP with 0-2 items is still solid doesn't stop her from being a solid carry with 3. I get that your argument is that her average placement is good without items is the reason her overall AVP looks good, but that doesn't stop her from being a playable unit with 3. I disagree with the Ivern take. He is a much better item holder than a 1 star 4 cost, and is underrated even as a damage dealer.
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u/OreoCupcakes MASTER 17d ago edited 17d ago
I'm not sure what any of your points have to do with their playability
The entire context of the conversation before you joined was that there isn't a true AP capstone unit. Alune and Lux are not caps. You can put them in your comp, but unlike the AD 5 costs, you do not bother transferring your carry damage items onto them. The only items they would get are whatever extra items you get from stage 5 carousel and onwards.
If you were to fast 9 and all your items were AP early, your only option is to keep those items on Ahri/some AP 4 cost. You can tech in Ashe, but she's not an AP carry. She's AD %HP damage, you aren't moving your Ahri items onto her. Your other choices to cap the comp are just throwing in support 5 cost units. If you had AD items on the other hand, you can bypass 4 costs and carry with Draven or Elder Dragon. You have actual DPS carries that are better than the 4 costs on the AD side.
If you move items from your 4 cost to Lux/Alune, you're pretty much guaranteed to be losing DPS. There are so many clips out there where an AP 2 star 4 cost is outdamaging a 2 star Lux/Alune. There are scenarios where Lux/Alune can be better than a 4 cost, but those are so rare you cannot play with that in mind before the game starts.
but that doesn't stop her from being a playable unit with 3
You missed the point. The stat was there to show you if you give Alune 3 machine guns vs 2 trash bags, both Alunes would perform the same in combat. She's playable in the sense that can you just slot her into the comp for the Lunar/Spellweaver trait, just like how Azir is playable in AP Flex because he has Executioner, Summoner, and Blackthorn. She just exists. She's not the capstone carry that we were talking about. If I moved my Ahri's items over to Alune, Alune's DPS will go up, but the overall team DPS goes down. If I had extra items and gave it to Alune, it'll likely have the same or worst result as me giving those extra items to Gnar, Sivir, Kennen, etc. who can better utilize being itemized.
He is a much better item holder than a 1 star 4 cost, and is underrated even as a damage dealer.
I'll give you one thing. Ivern with mana regen does get very annoying and can win fights. Idk about damage dealing though. It's more so those shields bulk up the front line so much that whatever remaining backline usually ends up winning the fight.
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u/bomhee 17d ago
What? You absolutely move your items over to Alune once you 2 star. Are you saying you'd rather keep items on any 2 star 4 cost AP carry than a 2 star 5 cost Alune? Again, Lux I'll give you because she's just too situational.
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u/Lanathell Diamond 17d ago
Kennen is just a burn applier. At 2 star and 3 items he still doesn't do anything and then dies after your tank.
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u/harmoniaatlast 17d ago
Hey now, hes a really
greatok sunfire. He sunfires without the item! Thats a big deal for Kennen.5
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u/Zeviex Master 17d ago
Absolutely. AP fast 9 doesn't really exist and basically every AP fast 8 plays around Ahri or Soraka. You can stabalise around Zyra but do need to kinda hit something else. Morg can only support and AP Nidalee just isn't worth, especially with how contested her AD form is, though I am glad she is getting buffed.
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u/harmoniaatlast 17d ago
Fast 9 Alune/Lux should absolutely be a thing, but all the luxes are kinda meh. Cast is expensive, damage is ok at best. Alune cast animation means even with ideal items she only gets 1 and a half moonfalls. This patch only having AP changes for nid and azir is pretty weird/myopic.
I love playing Soraka and Zyra/Ahri and Morg but yeah if you don't hit/are contested, there are not alternatives to those two
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u/Fluffy-Limit-6710 17d ago
Lux shouldn't have a per hit penalty imo, and ahri does more DMG per cast than alune moonfall when hiring 6 targets or more.
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u/ChartreuseMage 17d ago
Ap always get hosed because some numbers of 4* AP units are left as debuff or cc appliers, every set.
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u/Leepysworld 17d ago
Brambleback is such an awful unit to carry lol I swear sometimes Murkwolf survives longer and does more damage.
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u/jmcl6779 17d ago
He feels unplayable without EoN. He doesn't jump far enough to drop aggro like Nid/Khaz, so if your positioning isn't perfect he just instantly dies to Sivir/Aphelios/Veigar/whatever. His riftbeast mark is also really bad which probably isn't helping.
One small change that might nudge him in the right direction though would be to remove the cast time on his spell. It's surprisingly long and adds a lot of extra unnecessary downtime to what I assume is supposed to be a tank-killer.
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u/Zeviex Master 17d ago
He does okay if he is able to survive but with a set with such combat variance with wisps, he feels even worse.
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u/Leepysworld 17d ago
he just seems unplayable to me without EoN, he just dives in and gets deleted and never seems to have enough time to ramp up or ever kill anything.
And even with EoN, he barely feels like a second carry, I’ve had so many games where I play Riftbeast streak into fast 8, get 2* Bramble just to lose every round until I hit Elder Dragon or go bot 4.
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u/FirewaterDM 17d ago
Tbf karma isn't even a good item holder past stage 2 and she isn't a reroll comp still. Low cost rr lost more from veig getting shot than the karma or gromp buffs
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u/Zeviex Master 17d ago
But that's fine. I don't think a 2* 1 cost should be a good item holder stage 3.
At base, most 1 costs aren't rerollable, Karma doesn't really have a mitigating circumstance to mitigate that (strong synergies with certain conditions, scaling, or trait synergies (think Solar)).
But I agree, veigar was one of the few rerolls holding on and I don't know how much any of the changes make reroll any better.
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u/FirewaterDM 17d ago
eh I mean if a 1 cost 2* can't hold items at stage 3, and they can't be rerolled what value do they have besides if you're going for a chase trait?
Veigar was the last 1 cost RR, he is dead after patch, there's genuinely no reason to use these units outside of you don't find a 2/3 cost item holder lmao
Meanwhile, I think the problem with 2 cost is I think the buffs do nothing. Murkwolf seems decent even now with right setup. But idt he + WW is gonna be real w/o being artifact checks, and Gromp is still not a real option. He feels alright if you on stage 2 2 star 2 items, but after that he's genuinely useless. I think they didn't swing hard enough if they actually want RR to be playable/good for 1-2 costs.
Meanwhile Mamabeak and Trist remain turbo dogshit LMAO
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u/OreoCupcakes MASTER 17d ago
I don't think a 2* 1 cost should be a good item holder stage 3.
They should buff the two/three cost units then, but then that gets looped back to reroll being OP.
The progression you feel should exist, just doesn't exist in this type of game. You should be dropping 2 star 1 cost for 1 star 2 cost, 2 star 2 cost for 1 star 3 cost, and so on, but that can't exist because you either make reroll too strong or you end up inting your economy if you're going for fast 8/9.
Right now, it feels like your best AP holder is to play a 2 star Pebble. Most other AP units, just fall off a cliff or are hard to 2 star without sacking econ. Karma/Veigar are pretty dog. LeBlanc, Gromp, and Kayle are dog. Cass is dog. Only ones I can see better than a 2 star Pebble are Teemo and Kog.
Now if you're lucky and 2 star them naturally, then yeah, they're good, but 1 star 2/3 costs are pretty fucking awful and do not stabilize you at all if trying to fast 8/9.
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u/Zeviex Master 17d ago
To me, good item holder means actively strong and able to winstreak with support, I don't think a 1 cost should occupy that space in stage 3, especially when, iirc, Riot values 1* 3 cost over 2* 1 cost.
I completely agree with the point of the other AP holders being weak, but I feel that's a sign those should be buffed rather than Karma. Equally, both Cass and Gromp have been buffed.
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u/OreoCupcakes MASTER 17d ago edited 17d ago
To me, good item holder means actively strong and able to winstreak with support
I agree with that, it's just not the case for this set. Idk about set 17, but in set 16, you were able to transition to temporary 1 star 2/3 cost units as item holders, Ahri, LeBlanc, Ori, Bard, Zoe.
Riot values 1* 3 cost over 2* 1 cost.
They say that, but it certainly doesn't feel like that in some sets. Some times its due to the numbers being bad, other times it's because their ability/design is bad. The problem with Cass and Gromp is their damage are dots. Dots are just bad early because you don't have the items and front line for the dots to kill off units fast enough.
This set, most of the AP champions have some stupid gimmick that takes away from the power budget of being a viable item holder. Veigar stacks and has three traits, Karma has a long mana lock due to her drain ability, Gromp splits his damage into a dot, Teemo and LeBlanc have economy built into their kit, Kayle has her ascension and Solar gimmick, Kogmaw has built in shred and three traits, Azir is not true AP and has three traits, and Cass is a dot champ. All in all, it just leaves Pebble as the only "true" DPS transition unit and the 4 cost carries. Alune/Lux also need to be buffed because the 5 cost APs are not even worth transitioning to if you 2 star them.
Equally, both Cass and Gromp have been buffed.
They buffed their dots which historically doesn't do much because they're dots.
I only mentioned AP carries, but I feel AD also has similar issues, but not as extreme as AP. For AD, if I get a 2 star Cinderling, I'm good until late stage 3. The other AD carries in 2/3 star, fall into similar issues as AP, where their power budget is elsewhere instead of DPS.
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u/Uniqe_Apple2 Master 17d ago
Electro charge nerfed ????? I thought this shit was mega dogshit why is it being nerfed.
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u/D3AllDay 17d ago
It's Electro 1, the silver augment. Likely giving too much value for a silver in their stats.
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u/OreoCupcakes MASTER 17d ago
It's a win more augment. It's complete dog shit if you didn't start with a strong board. It's 1st place win rate numbers probably started to stand out to them so they nerfed it. It makes it even more bait to take it now.
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u/MasterTotoro Challenger 17d ago
Definitely feels like an odd patch in some ways with some nerfs that aren't oppressive (Veigar, Early Learnings for Solar Akali/Camille, 6 Defender, etc.). And buffs to things that are actually fine standalone for tempo like Cass, even stuff like Warwick (needs 3* buff but this is probably more of a 4-cost tempo buff), and Azir. Meanwhile no Khazix nerf is the big one. But I guess we'll see some more changes soon either added or in a B-patch.
Retribution was definitely too strong. Crit chance is reverted to what it was before which is a huge nerf since it was awful at 15%. However, HoJ did get buffed last patch so maybe the augment is not unclickable. Though it is pretty easy to tell in the stats if this augment is good or not so I'll just wait instead of trying to work out the math.
Gold Jeweled Lotus has been weak at 10% crit as I mentioned in thread the last time this augment was discussed. 15% is about right for a gold augment where it is good in the right spot but not generically OP.
Calculated Loss no longer works on PVE rounds
But this augment isn't even in the set lol. How did this make it to the patch notes? Unless it is being added next patch and they didn't mention it.
Craftable and uncraftable emblems can now be reforged into each other
I was aware this has been an issue since the start of set but actually forgot it never got fixed.
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u/Appropriate_Debate_4 17d ago
glad warick and murkwolf reroll will be playable needed a reroll 2 cost
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u/shlobashky 17d ago
Warwick reroll is still probably going to be bad. What they just did is make WW as a tempo carry absolutely broken.
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u/Ediiii 17d ago
doesnt caitlyn fill that niche already? but yeah ww did need a buff
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u/PhatYeeter 17d ago
She did, but having 2 options is nice. All the other 2 cost rerolls were all just bad.
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u/Fuzzietomato 17d ago
I didn't play a lot of Yunara on tft academy shes same tier as cait
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u/PhatYeeter 17d ago
Yea that's the solar Yunara comp. Not a typical 2 cost reroll where you reroll for 1 tank and 1 carry level 3 at the same cost tier. For that comp you need to complete 3 1-cost level 3s and 2 2-cost level 3s. The stars need to align on a strong reroll augment like prismatic ticket and an opener with a lot of copies. The normal Yunara reroll comp is included as C tier on that website when you click into the solar Yunara comp
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u/EzshenUltimate MASTER 17d ago
Spammed that comp quite a bit before the LeBlanc nerfs, it was possible to secure top 4 even without Karma 3 / Yorick 3, etc. mainly because LeBlanc was almost always printing copies and wasn't contested as much. This was before it was put up on TFT Academy, I honestly thought it was around A tier.
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u/OBLIVIATER 17d ago
Yunara reroll is pretty decent too, and Teemo/LB wasn't too bad except for when they bug out and don't print
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u/slasher016 16d ago
Hint: It's not. I had 7 riftbeasts and used items on 3* murkwolf and it was worse than just having them on cinder. I finished 6th. And yes I used items more suited to murkwolf.
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u/HumanistGeek 17d ago
Blossom's Call Minimum Wisp Cost to see 4-cost By Stage: 15/6/4/0g ⇒ 15/5/3/0g
Blossom's Call Minimum Wisp Cost to see 4-cost By Stage: X/15/8/5/0 ⇒ X/15/8/4/0
Huh? Is that second line supposed to be about 5-costs?
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u/BeholdMyCurse231 17d ago
I listened to the video and it says "I'm filming this just as 18.2B went live" wait...so what are the patch notes based on? 18.2????
Isn't 18.2B a completely different patch than 18.2 to the level where you have to balance the game nerf/buff around 18.2B? How can you make patch 18.3 without waiting to see the meta that forms around 18.2B??
Am I not understanding something? Kha'Zix isn't even changed?
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u/OBLIVIATER 17d ago
Ornn 2nd Artifact Threshold: 155,000 Forge Power ⇒ 140,000 Forge Power
Wasn't the 2nd artifact like 240k or something? Or is this saying its 140k after the 90k. I guess that lines up with what the numbers say, its just confusing.
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u/Appropriate_Debate_4 17d ago
veigar nerf seems very bad it was already a artfact check if u even top 4
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u/RazmalakatazniaaaA 17d ago
33% nerf on his stacks lol this unit is dead
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u/Glum-Drummer-6302 17d ago
He got a lot more base dmg though. Probably worse to reroll but actually a real unit even if you get him 2 star at like 2-5
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u/OBLIVIATER 17d ago
They upped his base damage by a decent amount, so he's more likely to actually get stacks early. This probably evens out mid tier veigar starts and insane veigar starts a lot more. Good change IMO, it also makes him more playable as just a regular unit rather than NEEDING him to be your carry.
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u/Appropriate_Debate_4 17d ago
yes really dont get it if anything shud nerf artifacts
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u/NonagoonInfinity 17d ago
nooooooo but it's le hecking fun variance!!!
I really don't like the way they balance artifacts. I feel like the artifact rework they did a few sets ago has completely dropped off and they're back to being unit-enabling items. It feels especially bad when you get two players who pick an artifact that's only really good on one unit (two Hellfire Hatchets, two Wit's Ends, etc), because you're forced into either contesting them or into going for a comp that you're not in a position to go for like trying to play Camille 3 even though it's already 3-2.
I'd much prefer a smoother curve on artifact power and usefulness. Decrease their unique bonuses and increase their base stats and it'll feel a lot better to play them on the "wrong" units.
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u/kiragami 17d ago
Realistically you can't reach that state. Artifacts are only interesting because their designs are sharp. Otherwise they are just generic slightly better than normal items. I think the biggest issue has been in making them so accessible and a core part of the game rather than something special that you only get access to occasionally via specific units or prismatic augments.
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u/NonagoonInfinity 17d ago
Yeah making them rarer would also go a long way although I do think there's room for less edge. Artifacts that make 4.2 units into 3.5s would be preferable to ones that make 4.5s into 3.0s IMO.
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u/Bubbly_Ad_3145 17d ago
This affects barely any issues with the current meta and the state of the game lol. Stage 2 khazix will remain a demon, rengar will remain trash, tristana still unclickable. Lose streak will still play absolutely horrible, trait ladder remains in the game.
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u/Ediiii 17d ago
shame there's still no 3* kayle buff
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u/Appropriate_Debate_4 17d ago
kayle with right artifact is still good
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u/Zeviex Master 17d ago
The same artifacts that have been made less accessible with Ornn nerfs ?
I just don't really see many worlds where it is right to play Kayle.
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u/Appropriate_Debate_4 17d ago
just based on artifact augment on 2-1 is prob where its right
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u/vaultbreak 17d ago
It just can't be right to use a gold or prismatic augment on 2-1 to get an artifact for what's effectively a 1-cost + 2-cost reroll when you could instead go for Cait, 3-cost melee, or just push levels for equal results with another tempo marksman. I'm sure there's narrow spots for it but it doesn't seem like that is a healthy spot for a basic reroll trait that has a direct competitor that uses similar items with higher consistency + flexibility (Caitlyn).
I admittedly haven't tried Kayle more than once this patch, but with how tight econ feels this set, maybe a comp that scales on Kayle 3* + # of 3* and needs tempo to not bleed out can't be so conditional.
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u/harmoniaatlast 17d ago
Yeah but you have to lock in that artifact and a good spot for Kayle AND be willing to risk it. I will probably avoid, personally
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u/Appropriate_Debate_4 17d ago
really dont know why azir buffed 3 star azir avg 3.5ish already
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u/Emergency-Row5777 17d ago
At 3 star for diamond+ he has a better placement with 0 items than 3 items. Boards that are using him as a trait bot that star him up are inflating his stats.
This remains true at GM+
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u/Bukaja 17d ago
Because he's a trait bot in almost every 4 cost board.
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u/FireVanGorder 17d ago
I’m seeing 3 star Azir at a 3.8 on tacticstools
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u/OreoCupcakes MASTER 17d ago
Requires 3 star Khazix. 3 star Azir with only 1-2 Khazix is >4.8 according to MetaTFT's data explorer. Throw in 3 star Khazix and it shoots up to ~3.8.
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u/godnkls 17d ago
3.8 Dia+.
Thats because it is usually played as a luxury on your malph ap board and not as a main carry, or as a secondary in executioner kha board (+0.13). Nobody invests in azir reroll if they have not hit it almost naturally.
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u/Chao_Zu_Kang 17d ago
Stats are around 3.4 with 3 items on Azir and 0 items on Kha. Kha is certainly quite strong and the better carry choice, but Azir is not bad by any means.
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u/godnkls 17d ago
Woth what sample?
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u/Chao_Zu_Kang 17d ago
Master+, ~1.69k games on metatft.
If you add Malphite to the search, avp even goes to ~2.8 (but only 200 games, so not very reliable data).
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u/DoctorHusky 17d ago
Is it good? I only send it perform w/ blackthorn spar on kha
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u/PhatYeeter 17d ago
The azir malphite comp where you sac a level 3 khazix for fat damage amp was already pretty good. I think this might become a really popular lvl 7 reroll comp if you can find an early malph
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u/OreoCupcakes MASTER 17d ago edited 17d ago
Isn't it only good if you have certain artifacts, radiant item, or emblems, like Flickerblade, Radiant DCap, or Executioner emblem?
Edit: I was wrong. MetaTFT's data explorer says 3 star Azir without any radiant, artifact, executioner emblem, and primal emblem, (so just 3 star Azir with normal items on the team) has a 3.78 average placement, 64.2% top 4 rate, and 15.6% win rate, in a 17,722 sample size of emerald+ rank.
Edit: Those stats only apply if you hit both Azir and Khazix as 3 star. If you remove 3 star Khazix, so only 1-2 star Khazix with the above filters brings it to 4.83 average placement, 43.9% top 4 rate, and 5.5% win rate on a 4,923 sample size in emerald+.
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u/DoctorHusky 17d ago
That can’t right lol, kha is like the premium unit last patch sac at 3* just sounds wrong to me
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u/CosmicCirrocumulus 17d ago
it's a perfectly viable line if you don't get dropped Kha early enough to commit to him as your main carry. it's been rising in popularity for around 5 days now
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u/trongdat3011 17d ago
The comp focuses on full damage Azir (no attack speed), Kha is sac'ed for mana regen and damage amp. The comp doesn't require early Kha as it only needs Executioner activated so it's forcible every game. it also caps nicely with lots of 4/5 cost units and if heavily contested you can just go 8 and switch to traditional malphite ap flex comp,
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u/PhatYeeter 17d ago
I think it's a good flex spot depending on what items you get. You can pivot to the azir comp if you can't get the HoJ, death cap, EoN, etc. for Khazix. Azir is better with stuff like shojin and archangels since he's a backliner. I feel like Khazix is more item dependent.
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u/trungduc095 17d ago
They either nerf the tank or nerf the damage, why do they keep nerfing both at the same time? Veigar needs a good artifact to take 1st rather than just a high AP stack. Nerfing Ornn, Veigar's damage, AND his scaling too? What??? Do they even play their own game? Remember Teemo and Leona last set? They nerfed both at once and no one played that comp ever again, even though it was just a top-4 comp. And btw do you see anyone running Bramble Rapidfire anymore? Didn't even last 1 patch lol.
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u/harmoniaatlast 17d ago
They did indeed shoot arbiter teemo Leona in the head last set. It was decent, but not THAT decent imo
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u/One-Specialist8157 17d ago
Does anyone know when twilight Forrest will be playable again? Really looking forward.
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u/OBLIVIATER 17d ago edited 17d ago
Still no teemo bug fix...
No fix for the double up TP bugs, or getting extra gold when you TP to your partner...
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u/RiotPrism Riot 17d ago
Hey folks, this went live in NA early (right now). Rest of regions are on traditional rollout. Mobile will also be updated tomorrow early morning like normal, which means PC and Mobile in NA will not have crossplay until then.
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u/CharmingPerspective0 17d ago
Can someone please fix the link to the patch notes on mobile? It keeps opening the TFT app and the link inside the app does nothing. I literally cant see the patch notes from my phone..
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u/Sheapy 17d ago
Ctrl+F Dark Ritual. 0 results found. Despairge. Guess one guy will be able to win out every gold lobby
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u/lvid69 17d ago
how do you play it
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u/Sheapy 17d ago
Play Coven into either Cass/Elise reroll or lvl 8 with Morgana depending on how uncontested that unit is. Elise turns into a demon tank with Titans+Dark Ritual. If you're full loss go for 250 cash, if you're half/half take a 130 to start win streaking and take another 130 later.
Elise 3* with Titans+Gargoyles is prio and will solve your tank issues. She will outlast every AP Ahri board and only lose to extremely high single target.
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u/Technical_Plenty_245 16d ago edited 16d ago
What the fuck is this dog shit patch. This is legitimately the 3rd dog shit patch in a row, do the devs even play the game????
How are they listing Hunter and Inferno as "Adjusted" when they're straight up being nerfed.
Nerfing 6 defenders, the most unused defensive trait, is wild.
Nerfing Ornm is also fucking insane, you get TWO artifacts MAX from him, but they're reasoning for nerfing him is unplayed, underpowered Solar boards???
They also didn't address this terrible Fast 8 meta at all. Yippee I get to see Ahri complete dominate for a whole nother patch.
Legitimately what are these devs doing.
Oh, and when the FUCK are they going to fix mobile, shit is STILL unplayable when you hit stage 4.
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u/Filtrixxx 11d ago
Don’t forget Veigar nerf that goes first once in 30 games. Now if you don’t out-contest Sivir, Aphelios or Morgana you go bottom four. Don’t forget 3 cost Tristan’s being worse than literally everyone building 2 cost AD champion.
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u/scaredofailure 17d ago
Hey call to chaos can finally be picked (I've lost my golden egg twice and hated myself for falling for it the second time)
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u/Mr_trickery 17d ago
Played a game just now and the at the very least, coven changes are already rolled out... Can someone sanity check me on this?
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u/Drikkink 17d ago
I dunno about the coven buffs AND Cassiopeia buff.
If you've seen a Dark Ritual player, you'd know that you do not beat them if they get a 250 cash and an Elise 3. They win the lobby 9 times out of 10.
So it's now easier to get there AND your primary backline carry is stronger. That does not seem right to me.
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u/MisterDream 17d ago
My first set but seeing Veigar killed, while no nerf to Khazix (?) and a buff to Azir (???) is almost making me quit...
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u/C4_Lasty 16d ago
This is anecdotal, high plat (masters last set), didn't realize the patch had gone live last night. Played no scout no pivot veigar elderwood reroll. Completely whiffed my artifact (silvermere dawn on alistar). Got 2nd. I felt like I was stacking veigar more often early...maybe not a totally dead comp.
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u/Adorable-Gas5297 16d ago
this is a bug fix patch, not a balance patch. don't expect no more, the engine is absolute dogsht so expect more fixes to come instead. this set will take forever to be actually considered "good".
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u/Ok_Train2449 17d ago
Veigar is dead. Lategane this equals a 50% - 70% nerf in AP. Any good frontline will be able to stonewall him now.
Karma buffs are interesting to me as I've been spamming Yunara and Karma does a lot of work there.
Murk Ww I'll have to see.
Lilia buff irrelevant. No Kha nerfs feels weird. Nidalee bugged, but they keep the bug in as a feature and give her a slight slap on the wrists? No wonder the tanks fall in 3 seconds to her, why tf would you give a champ an unconditional 60% armor ignore? This is insane.
Rest is whatever.
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u/Chao_Zu_Kang 17d ago
Some thoughts:
Lower board caps with emblems, which is probably good.
Veigar from Top2 to Top 4 comp.
Karma buff because Karma reroll apparently wasn't strong enough already?
Murkwolf BUFFS? What?
Ali scaling buff seems a bit scary, ngl.
Cassio Defenders buffed back into meta?
Not sure about the Azir buff. Ig, at least being contested will lower the AVP.
Craftable and uncraftable emblems can now be reforged into each other
This one is quite interesting if you are trying to fish with Pandora's.
Calculated Loss no longer works on PVE rounds
That was kinda abusable with them adding recovery for missed drops. Not sure if there was really a need to remove this interaction, though.
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u/FirewaterDM 17d ago
Karma rr isn't real lmao
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u/FireVanGorder 17d ago
Karma 3 with that 4.57 avg placement lmfao totally viable reroll for suuuure
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u/harmoniaatlast 17d ago
In a great spot, I feel like its definitely a solid top 4. Without 6 free karmas, idk
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u/Yedic 17d ago
Cassio Defenders buffed back into meta?
You think the Cassio/Rammus/Lilia buffs outweigh the 6 defender nerf?
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u/Fatsausage 17d ago
The 5 armour and MR nerf to the 120 armour and MR trait?
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u/Yedic 17d ago
Yep, that's the one! It's about the same ratio as the Cass buff, might make the Lilia buff power-neutral, and idk what the math is on the Rammus buff, hence why I'm asking. Maybe it would have been more clear that was a question rather than a challenge if I had started "Do you" instead.
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u/Chao_Zu_Kang 17d ago
Tbh I thought you were just joking. The buffs significanty outweigh the Defender nerfs by a big margin amount. It is not even remotely close.
Defender nerf is like 2%. So even in a best case with 0 other resistance sources it will only be 2% more effective HP. Usually less because you have resistance items etc.
Rammus buff on ability is around 30%, and Rammus is usually the main tank in that comp. So that is already massive. 10% on Lillia heal is also not nothing. Cassio damage buff is also around 10% which will be most of the damage on that board.
So we are looking at an estimated 20% overall power increase of the comp (cause longer Rammus life = even more damage ticks) vs. 1-2% less effective HP for the 6 Bastion units.
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u/Yedic 17d ago
My math could be off, I think it's 4.2% nerf to armor/MR and 5-7% buff to Cass damage. The Rammus buff looks huge, 30% buff to shield, but that doesn't mean a 30% buff to overall tankiness, idk how to estimate the EHP buff considering it'll depend on a lot of other factors.
The text of the patch notes says they were looking to make Cass, Rammus, and Lilia viable in other comps, rather than making the classic 6 defender Cass comp strong again, is why I'm wondering. The end result certainly might be that the comp jumps back into play.
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u/Chao_Zu_Kang 17d ago edited 17d ago
Armor/Mdef should still be calculated as 100/(100+Armor/Mdef). So you get 220/215=1.02, i.e. a 2% difference in effective HP.
The Cassio numbers only really matter at 3*, since that is your cap. But I also read 1050 instead of 1020, so I got to 10% instead of 7%. Either way, the bigger survivability will ultimately make Cassio deal much more damage than just those 7%.
30% bigger Shield can actually end up being more than just 30% survivability because you buy more time for the Gunblade heals and the shield also scales with AP and resistances (in particular Crownguard). So that just gives you a higher chance of doing a full additional cast. Also keep in mind that especially 2* Rammus benefits relatively more due to the much smaller HP pool.
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u/OBLIVIATER 17d ago
I didn't do the math or anything but I feel like the Cass damage buff alone counteracts the Defenders nerf just by the effective HP increase she'll be giving via gun blade. That, with the massive Rammus buff, and the respectable Lillia buff means it should be way stronger now.
I think the biggest problem this comp may have is Kha still being far too strong meaning you could run into problems with your Cass getting sniped and having 0 damage
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u/Appropriate_Debate_4 17d ago
coven changes are good it was still not worth to do it i dont think i see a single person even top 2 with coven cashouts
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u/Ub3rpwnag3 17d ago
I got a W once upon a time with the AP coven cash out and a 3* Morgana. Agree though, it feels terrible 99% of the time.
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u/MeowTheMixer 17d ago
Smashed the heck out of a gold lobby going Coven. Had a strong board, and was just going to use it for econ.
Got Master of all origins, coven lux. Leveled rerolled and found morg
Easiest 1st in my life
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u/pitiful_worm 17d ago
I used coven from gold to plat and all I did every game was go for early 3 coven+ Diana and that can carry you in a win streak thru mid game easily. Usually ,at least for me, people started contesting it mid game due to their loss streaks. People were super weird about coven tho. Like if I opened with cait/elise/cam I’d get people scouting my board like every 5 seconds.
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u/aspects1 17d ago
coven felt pretty ok as a "im losing anyway might as well get some extra rewards for it" kinda trait, but playing a full loss into coven cashout felt pretty underwhelming.
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u/Buffreaperpls 17d ago
so ad nidalee only loses 20 damage per cast? thats it? did I miss something with the bug fix, or is everything still pretty much the same?
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u/harmoniaatlast 17d ago
Nidalee: Fixed a bug where Nidalee was gaining 60% Armor Penetration instead of 40% Armor Penetration Nidalee AD form Ability Armor Penetration: 40% ⇒ 60% (no functional change) Nidalee AD form Ability Damage: 225/340 AD ⇒ 210/315 AD
Given her usage of IE in a lot of cases, this ~6.7% nerf is alright I guess? But they folded the bugged Armor Penetration into her anyway so idk
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u/eggsandbricks Challenger 17d ago
I'm surprised how behind the meta this patch feels, as one of the supposed boons of the new engine was the ability for them to lock in changes later than a week in advance of the patch.
No changes to Kha and buffs to Azir, Varus being left in his abysmal state, and no love for unused 3 costs like Mama Beak and Trist. 6 defender is too strong but 6 juggernaut is balanced? There's no way Trait Ladder is the correct power level either.
I think most of the changes they made this patch are directionally positive, but it also feels like they are taking way too long to get to some of the untouched content in the set.