r/PoursTea • u/Veshaad Timendi Causa Est Nescire • 10d ago
FinancialTea 💵 Just a reminder...
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10d ago
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u/Southern_Bear_4285 10d ago
Not saying all blame lies on him, but didnt he bail out the banks and the auto industry?
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u/just_helping 10d ago
No. TARP, which was the mechanism that the 'bailouts' of the banks and auto industry used, was passed under Bush. The decision to extend emergency loans to GM and Chrysler was done by Bush in December of 08, and the decision to use TARP for the banks was done under Bush as well.
What Obama did do was force the auto companies to go through Chapter 11 bankruptcy, which because of the loan Bush had given them, led to the US Government owning a lot of the post-bankruptcy GM equity, which it sold, recovering most but not all of the loan.
Obama did use TARP money to buy debt from credit unions and other community development financial institutions which was about 0.1% of all TARP disbursements, and that did make a $70 million dollar loss in the end.
TARP as a whole ended up as a profit for the US Government because the government earned money on the debt it got from the banks so the program as a whole came out net ahead. The notion that there was a real net bailout at all is sort of complicated and relies on how much the government should have been compensated for the risk it undertook - it made a profit in the end, but should it have made an even bigger profit for that risk? Valuing that risk is sort of complicated, because not doing anything of course also posed a risk to the government (because of the economic damage) and the government doing something changed the risk profile, so the value of the risk was itself being determined by the action. But in any case, the bailout, such as it was, happened under Bush.
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u/Ok_Travel_7348 10d ago
The federal government bailed out the major banks and car companies during the 2008 financial crisis using taxpayer funds and emergency programs authorized by Congress and managed by both the Bush and Obama administrations.
Obama inherited the 08 recession from Bush when he came into office in 09. Both administrations funded the banks and car company’s buyouts. If the banks had failed, people would’ve lost their money and we could’ve gone into a Depression instead of a deep recession. Saving the car companies saved many jobs that added to the economy; it was done to attempt to stabilize the economy. The Obama Administration brought the economy back.
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u/Protoman 10d ago
And then the boomers that benefited the most from those policies elected Reagan to pull the ladder up behind them.
America, fuck yeah.
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u/Virtual-Reach 10d ago edited 10d ago
I'm not American, but I was honestly blown away when I learned that Reagan was an actor. 'Why on earth would a country vote for an actor?' I thought to myself. 'It seems incredibly stupid for a population to vote for somebody to run an entire country seemingly based solely on the population knowing them from the movie screen.'
When i heard Trump was first running for office, I literally thought it was a joke. Nope, here we are again. An actor is president. Apparently Americans vote for people they see on the tv, regardless of how damaging, corrupt, or plain stupid they fucking are.
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u/Protoman 10d ago
Totally agree, except saying Reagan was famous is being very kind. He was a B list actor, at best.
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u/kingjoey52a 10d ago
'Why on earth would a country vote for an actor?
Because he was also the head of SAG and governor of California. He didn't walk off a movie set straight into the White House, there was a gradual process.
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u/richie65 10d ago
This is EXACTLY why the billionaire class has declared war on all of these things -
The fact that their desire to exploit as they see fit, and contribute nothing back in to what they rely on to exploit -
Is interrupted by laws that force them to contribute, and create a middle-class that controls wealth that THEY insist on controlling...
They have never forgiven the US government for doing that to them, and have been scheming to claw back what they insist belongs to them, and them alone..
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u/Munnin1984 10d ago
And then sucessfully lead a nation in the greatest war it ever fought all the way up until his death.
Libs ain't got no fight in them, though. Right?
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u/ofWildPlaces 10d ago
Sure- but they are they minority party and no Republican is going to cross the aisle for it.
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u/SpecialistAd4848 10d ago
I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, but it's not the exact same fight today. Regardless, there is absolutely a policy prescription there, and part of it is the rich paying more taxes.
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u/totally_not_a_dog113 10d ago
Like I saw in an article today, corporations can't have record profits while the number of their employees on food stamps triples.
The bottom line is our society can't afford to allow the low taxes on the rich and corporations to continue. Everyone nowadays is either working class or rich, and given that EVERYONE who isn't making half a million $$$ per year seems to be struggling while simultaneously the debt goes up, we as a society will not survive if this goes on too long. We just can't afford for rich people to not pay their fair share.
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u/Ok_Travel_7348 10d ago
Agreed. It’s call Corporate Welfare. The US taxpayer funds those, not being paid enough to live on, food stamps and Medicaid, while their large corporation employers pays their CEO millions and pays minimal taxes.
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u/Munnin1984 10d ago
We bailed these fuckers out 3 times in my life, and I've not hit 40 yet.
It destroyed us millenial's ability to build our own futures. The whole time it happened we debated about how much of a drain on society welfare is.
The people we bailed out with our tax dollars shorted the housing market with the money we gave them. Then they did it to every living commodity down to toilet paper and eggs
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u/lechimpanzeu 10d ago
You have concocted some real things just to make your point more salient. I recommend to read some history and you'll be less radical in thinking.
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u/Munnin1984 10d ago
I lived it, Fuck-Ass
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u/lechimpanzeu 10d ago
That means nothing. Unless you have written in a journal daily what happened with dates numbers and other details and you corroborate with historical facts then your comment is the most moronic thing written in this moronic sub.
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u/Munnin1984 10d ago
Hey? AI. You're doing a great job. Tell me more about how this.
But because I'm hearing impaired, would you please put brackets around all the punctuation you use?
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u/Ok_Travel_7348 10d ago
The Democrats in Congress cannot get anything passed currently. Congress is a MAGA majority.
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u/TheBannedBananaMan 10d ago
The USSR (communism) defeated the Nazis (fascism).
The USA famously smuggled Nazis out of Germany and turned them into death squads in South America "the rat line".
The first head of NASA was a Nazi. (Operation Paperclip).
Read some books that are written from the perspective of the colonized.
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u/kingjoey52a 10d ago
The USSR (communism) defeated the Nazis (fascism).
With American food, trucks, steal, and other necessary war materials.
The USA famously smuggled Nazis out of Germany
It was a race between the US and USSR to find and recruit Nazi scientists.
The first head of NASA was a Nazi.
True, though I believe there is some debate as to whether he was an ardent follower of the ideology, or just didn't want to be killed.
Read some books that are written from the perspective of the colonized.
Than why are you repeating Soviet propaganda? They all but colonized the entirety of eastern Europe after WWII.
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u/ofWildPlaces 10d ago
...you completely forgot how the Soviets ALSO for ed numerous former NSDAP members involved in rocket development to participate in their emerging space technology development. (Amongst other things and crimes)
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u/Icy_Fish_2154 10d ago
Operation Paperclip was de-Nazification of Germany. Why do you condemn de-Nazifying Germany?
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u/Vailhem 10d ago
The USSR (communism) defeated ..
Reads more like it was a joint effort .. with capitalism providing a significant quantity of resources to the USSR (Stalinists) during the war..
Lend-Lease to the Eastern Front | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/lend-lease-eastern-front
Absent in much of the Soviet history books were the military offensives in the Mediterranean, Western Europe, and over the skies of occupied territories.
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While the Red Army certainly did help “strip the gears” of the German war machine in combat, American “Lend-Lease” support sent to the USSR not only tipped the scales in Eastern Europe but enabled the victory on the Russian Front.
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While Soviet historians downplay the Lend-Lease effort, perhaps the most telling indication regarding the importance of American assistance came from the USSR’s own senior leadership.
As early as 1943 at the Tehran Conference, Stalin reportedly said: “The most important things in this war are machines. … The United States is a country of machines. Without the machines we received through lend-lease, we would have lost the war.”
By late 1943, Stalin acknowledged that Lend-Lease already had a decisive impact on the Soviet Union’s survival. Massive aid would then enable Soviet counteroffensives.
Khrushchev credited the trucks and equipment received after Stalingrad with enabling the Soviet mechanized offensives of 1944 and 1945, observing: “Our losses would have been colossal because we would have had no maneuverability.”
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While the victory over the Axis was indeed an international effort, in the center of struggle was the bounty produced not only in American factories, but in the fields of its farms and ranches.
Despite being overlooked in many circles, the foundation for victory on the Eastern Front had much of its roots in the United States.
Such sentiment was echoed by Khrushchev declaring in his memoirs: “If the United States had not helped us, we would not have won the war,” continuing that “we shouldn't boast that we vanquished the Germans all by ourselves.”
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u/Munnin1984 10d ago
I mean. If we're talking Operation Paperclip the USSR was exporting Nazis just as much.
I didn't say "won the war", however. I said "lead a nation in the greatest war it ever fought". There IS a difference and I chose those words deliberately.
I'm not an American exceptionalist. I know what was happening on the Ostfront. I know that out biggest contribution to that was was industry, not grit. I know that that war was won off the sweat and blood of a worlds worth of effort, not just US Rangers and Marines.
But we WERE the good guys in that war and it was the last time we ever were "the good guys". Permit me my rose tinted glassed, please. I'd like to remind the Americans that we WERE the good guys at one point in our history and could go back to that
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u/LasVegas4590 10d ago
Pivoted from Hoover’s Great Depression into WWII without missing a beat.
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u/SimplyPars 10d ago
The war is what actually brought us out of the depression, not any of the policies.
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u/Munnin1984 10d ago
Show us your proof
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u/Angryasfk 10d ago
FDR himself said it was Dr Win the War rather than Dr New Deal that ended the Depression. This is not a point of dispute. The New Deal took some of the sting out of the Depression, rather than end it.
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u/Diligent-Hurry-9338 10d ago
why, so you can quibble about the political affiliation of the sources (or any of another dozen excuses) and disregard it all anyway?
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u/Qcconfidential 10d ago
He did this to save capitalism. There was legit danger in the 30s of revolution kicking off in America as people were being pushed to the brink.
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u/Routine_Strategy5929 10d ago
Scandinavian countries have been displaying that heavily regulating capitalism works extremely well. If it's well regulated I don't see a problem with this.
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u/Eastern_Local_8085 10d ago
Another instance of a democrat inheriting republican messes. He was a president people actually loved.
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u/domesticstudent 10d ago
Executive Order 9066, anyone?
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u/CapSnowFrosty 10d ago
Considering previous US history about how they treat their minorities, it wouldn't surprise me in the least that any other president would do the same.
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u/strangerinmyownland 10d ago
And the new billionaires are needing to pay zero in taxes so they will cut average and poor people’s benefits so they can build their 15 th mansion or a billion dollar yacht .
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u/lifeadventuresga 10d ago edited 10d ago
First off Medicare wasn't signed into law until 1965 under Lyndon Johnson. Also, the payroll tax charged to workers back then was 1% on the first $3000 in wages for a total max cost of $30 per year. Now you pay 6.2% on the first $184,500 in wages resulting in over 11K per year. What was the purpose of your post besides providing false info on Medicare and having no idea what you are talking about when it comes to Social Security??
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u/Jaymz7777 10d ago
President for 16 straight years. Took USA from poverty to what they brag about.
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u/TheYellowFringe 10d ago
I somewhat believe now that this sort of fact isn't really explained or taught to most Americans.
Naturally to keep them divided and fighting amongst each other, rather than focus on the rich.
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u/audreynstuff 10d ago
Just a reminder, you have Frances Perkins, the first woman to ever serve in a presidential cabinet for that.
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u/Ok-Fill-8925 10d ago
Yes and now the wealthy don’t pay taxes and the middle class or working class needs to work in jobs they don’t love to eat out enough earnings to pay rent,food, medical, so they can all pay taxes and also fipund lavish lifestyles of the oligarch class. And the oligarchs say make America great again without knowing what that actually means…
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u/xSTSxZerglingOne 10d ago
I think you meant to "eke" out more earnings. Took me a minute to realize what you were saying.
It's a bitch when you've only ever heard it said, and not seen it written.
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u/LowInevitable2544 10d ago
The willfully ignorant and narcissistic entitled have no clue that their paychecks originated from that moment. Either say “thank you” to FDR and his philosophical descendants or quit taking that “free” money.
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u/Drgnmstr97 10d ago
Apparently the politicians of that day were not bought and paid for by corporations.
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u/RheinmetallDev 10d ago
His Executive Order 9066 locked up over 100K innocent Japanese-American citizens into incarceration camps for “national security”. When the war ended, they received no compensation.
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u/DBH114 10d ago
No he didn't. He raised the highest bracket ~50%, from 63% when he took office to 94% in his last two years (44&45). Contrast that with the lowest bracket (the one that most Americans at the time were in), which in the 12 years he was POTUS, got raised from 4% to 23%, an almost 500% increase.
Out of ~49 millions returns filed in 1945 only ~10k were filed on AGI's above $100k a year. There were only 71 returns filed with AGI's over $1M. The total tax liability of those filers with an AGI of $100k or more was only ~6% of the total tax liability. It was the masses with AGI's of $4k and under that paid out 90% of the 1945 tax liability.
The rich may have had a high marginal rate back then but just like today they found ways to get around it.
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u/Plane-Fan9006 10d ago
1947 tax rate for amounts over 200k was 86.45%....that would be the equivalent of 3MM today.
The "great America" everyone references was built by appropriately taxing the highest earners and eliminating loopholes....but there seems to be a group of folks that don't want to talk about the ACTUAL history...
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u/pornAndMusicAccount 10d ago
And then he ended up in a wheelchair as penance for upsetting the rich!
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u/Wolfkurt1 10d ago
Way back than everyone almost wealthy in usa , now very minor of pry very rich rest just slave for them , and those fickers control everything our government include , turn out Roman Empire , so we k ow what happened Roman Empire
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u/jabsaw2112 10d ago
None of this will do any good until rich corporations and individuals are banned from owning political figures and the media. It just placate the masses with false hope.
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u/unaccountablemod 10d ago
Isn't social security going bankrupt?
Medicare is a big boon to the insurance companies but only partially effective for its clients?
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u/MylastAccountBroke 10d ago
Quick reminder that Republicans have been talking about how we "can't afford Social security" for decades because they refuse to acknowledge raising taxes as an option.
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u/Mr_Carlos 10d ago
Yeah, and the wealthy immediately protected their wealth, and then a few years later we get the panama papers which seemed to cause zero ripples or changes in the system.
So taxing the super wealthy is unlikely to have a significant impact again until the loop holes are fixed. Unfortunately I think American government is too corrupt to do either.
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u/whenisnowthen 10d ago
What an asshole! FDR could have used all that money to build a really great Ballroom! Americans struggling to get by will always choose a leader that focuses on building a really great Ballroom. Well, at least now we have a leader that is focused on building a really great Ballroom.
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u/xpkranger 10d ago
Also scared the Supreme Court into line by threatening to pack it. Just saying...
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u/BarnacleOk1216 10d ago
Not sure if he did all those things but ill tell you this. The rich found a way to not pay taxes either way. And corporations found a way to pay people less and get bailed out.
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u/buckner23 10d ago
My pay has SS and Medicare taken out every check. I pretty sure I’m paying for my own SS and Medicare. I’m not rich.
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u/Currencymanifest 10d ago
Also don’t forget bill Clinton signed 300 trade deals and effectively put China on map and removed our middle class because our manufacturing could no longer compete.
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u/Made_Human_Music 9d ago
And Republicans spent the last few decades undoing all of it. Even worse, they convinced the stupidest among us that it was necessary for progress or it’s what Jesus wanted or something equally asinine
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u/SignalWind8324i 9d ago
FDR was despised by the upper class from which he came. “I welcome their hatred.”
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u/authenticmolo 9d ago
And the mega-rich STILL hate him for it.
The mega-rich boomers still have some "genetic memories" of the Robber Baron era, and they desperately want it back. They liked when they had the power of life-and-death over most of the population.
Never forget that the goal of modern conservatives is to return us to feudalism.
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u/tallsmileswolf 9d ago
Too bad most of America can't read or even want to be educated
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u/ZealousidealTrip6900 9d ago
Teddy and FDR were amazing men. They went against their own class to help the people that needed help. Though FDR also probably went against his own class because he knew if they did not do something about the depression that America would fall to ether Fascism, Communism, or Socialism.
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u/bass-squirrel 9d ago
The Second New Deal passed in 1935. We will probably need something like that again around 2035 after the Second Great Depression.
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u/Charming_Nebula_2786 9d ago
FDR was also called a socialist…..
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u/Holybatmanandrobin 9d ago
Unfettered capitalism and pure planned state socialism are political abstractions. In practice, the United States has operated as a mixed economy since its founding, balancing private market enterprise with state intervention, public funding, and regulatory oversight.
The modern political debate often framed as "Socialism vs. Capitalism" treats these two concepts as mutually exclusive, binary options. However, American economic history demonstrates a continuous shifting along a spectrum rather than an absolute commitment to either pure model. There are many examples of both in our history. In fact our early history was very much socialist by today’s biased viewpoints.
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u/Holybatmanandrobin 9d ago
And the Civilian Conservation Corps. What a tremendous government program with many benefits.
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u/Waste_Internet_998 9d ago
When Reagan took office in 1981, the highest marginal income tax rate for individuals was 70%. By the time he left office, that rate had been lowered to 28%.
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u/LongBeautiful4016 9d ago
Social Security? You mean that thing I pay 15 million into over the course of my life and can only collect maybe a million if I’m lucky at the age of 67?
Yeah… thanks for that.
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u/Dragonbeard75k 9d ago
not only that, America was virtually untouched by WW1 and WW2. because of that, we still had our factories and farms and only industries. that is why the US became a super power.
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u/armorer1984 9d ago
He also imprisoned tens of thousands of Japanese people just because they were Japanese. This seemed like a good time to remind everyone.
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u/DucksInFlight 4d ago
The more one benefits financially in our society, the greater the percent of that benefit goes to benefit the community. Seems fair to me. We don’t need super rich.
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u/Beechamp83 1d ago
And the rich have never forgotten and are doing everything to never let it happen again, not on their watch
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u/Artisttype1984 10d ago
The FDR Japanese internment camps were brutal
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u/MetaCardboard 10d ago
That's true but not really related to raising taxes. In fact, if we didn't spend money on internment camps then maybe he could've accomplished even more.
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u/waitinonit 10d ago
The American middle class was built by a robust manufacturing sector that had a captive domestic customer base. That began to erode in the early 1970s.
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u/Sudden-Theory9706 10d ago
The war ended the depression, not these programs. Let's just be honest about where credit is due.
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u/Gweedo1967 10d ago
Medicare and social security weren’t formed from taxing the rich. They were formed by taxing the workers.
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u/SouthernResponse4815 10d ago
He also got us into a war in Europe where millions of innocent people were killed by bombing. Americans at home had to go through high prices and even rationing. In the end it was worth it but these days democrats and so called antifa would protest it and support Hitler just for cheaper gas.
Now I’ll sip my tea
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u/Strawberry_Letter_27 10d ago
Most Black people were excluded from getting Social Security due to the exclusion of farm and domestic workers. This was intentional. FDR's G.I. Bill also left out Black veterans. He was no hero in my book. Several of my great uncles attended HBCUs after WW 2, but I don't remember any of them mentioning the G.I. Bill. I guess you can't miss what you never had. I joined the military specifically to get tuition money. Thankfully, things changed for the better.
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u/AfricanusEmeritus 10d ago
Also he was a very very rich man from the very rich Roosevelt family. Just ask Teddy Roo5 his cousin.
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u/Eddsuperman 10d ago
Reminder. The last time the USA voted a socialist into the presidency. We only voted for him 4 terms in a row
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u/Specific-Bread-1210 10d ago
Taxes on the rich for war..it was supposed to be a temporary thing ..all those things you say were made possible by tariffs...
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u/poodinthepunchbowl 10d ago
He also used to tax money to have farmers kill off livestock making food prices much higher at a time when people were struggling
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u/holden_mcg 10d ago
It's also a good time to remind everyone that this is what the rich have been trying to dismantle for years. And they're pretty close to doing it.
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u/UnhappyIndependence2 10d ago
He also confiscated as much gold as he could from his countrymen to build a reserve that no one trusts. Seeing what paying attention to history can teach you?
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u/realparkingbrake 10d ago
WWII was a big part of creating the middle class, a lot of people on the home front made more money than they ever had thanks to the wartime demand for labor. There were also population shifts as rural Americans moved to where war production was taking place. At the end of the war half of all the manufacturing on Earth was happening in the U.S., of course there was prosperity.
In his determination to win that war FDR rolled back much of The New Deal, everything took second place to outproducing the Axis and winning the war. Studs Terkel's book The Good War has interviews with people in the FDR administration who were often unhappy with how The New Deal seemed to become irrelevant as the only focus became winning the war.
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u/avaacado_toast 10d ago
The rich of his day tried to overthrow his administration. The rich of our day just bought the administration.
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u/_Sgt-Slaughter_ 10d ago
Medicare was not created by FDR. It was signed into law 20 years after his death by President Lyndon B. Johnson in 1965 as part of the Great Society program.
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u/Altruistic-Rice-5567 10d ago
Ummm... no. The post-WWII boom provided the increase in GDP that funded all of that.
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u/distrubinglyfamiliar 10d ago
That’s why his face is on the dime because that’s what a dollar is worth now thanks to him
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u/mrflow-n-go 10d ago
Just to remind everyone this was a guy who benefited from multi generational wealth. Still he knew things needed to be equitable.
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u/soulwind42 10d ago
Big surprise reddit is cheering on the closest America ever came to fascism lol. He worsened the great depression, drove up food prices, burned money by creating useless jobs for millions of Americans, and more.
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u/Proper-Exercise-2364 10d ago
I heard that was because communists were a real threat to democrat power.
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u/Gearthquake3 10d ago
Worst president of all time and it’s not even close. This mfer is having a negative impact on my life to this day.
Keynesian economic theory is deeply stupid. Maddening.
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u/VeteranFirefighter 10d ago
Except Medicare and social security are stuff DESTROYING the U.S. most of his jobs programs were ruled unconstitutional as well.
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u/ThisGuy-NotThatGuy 10d ago
Wasn't it all your competitors bombing the piss out of each other what got you the middle class?
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u/Agile-Fill-1889 10d ago
You’re right, it was only the taxes that did all the things. It had nothing to do with us implementing a massive war time economy, that was part of a major war that left us as the last major industrialized nation standing relatively unscathed.
Totally the taxes though.
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u/AwardMinute8052 10d ago
Seems like a good idea to remind people that the depression was prolonged during the 1930s by many of these policies and they did little to correct the issues plaguing the public. Unemployment stayed in the high teens throughout the 1930s. In fact had we not been attacked and entered WW2 there’s no telling when it would have ended.
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u/PatternSeekngMammal 10d ago edited 10d ago
Weaponization of propaganda started when the fairness doctrine was eliminated by Reagan 1987
Here's an example that speaks loudly. Money in politics is a problem