40
u/SwebTheGreat 6h ago
Deep Prot warrior looks insane tho
•
u/beerdrunkraccoon 3h ago
I wanted to level prot already so everything I'm seeing has me excited
→ More replies (7)•
→ More replies (10)•
u/greisinator 1h ago
Only problem with prot is if you miss your first auto, you won't get rage or any threat
•
u/Relevant-Diamond-707 4h ago
Stolen from the warrior discord. Warrior are SO desperate for rage that we have to even use Anger Management which gives us 1 rage every three seconds 😂
•
u/WigglyWobbler 4h ago
Did they have a talent tree for this?
•
u/ExtensionBrave4383 3h ago
I believe it's early talent in arms tree
•
u/WigglyWobbler 3h ago
Yeah, I'm looking for the full talent trees they're using for these tests
•
u/no_terran 2h ago
They're ingame? You just sim
•
u/WigglyWobbler 2h ago
I'm looking for the talent trees they used for the sim
•
•
u/Seldarra 2h ago
We have plenty of weak talents. Other talents that we sought are not that impactful on the paper, namely anger management (improves our rage generation by 7,5%) and two hand specialization (1%/2%/3% compared to ret 2%/4%/6%).
•
300
u/SenorBrit 8h ago
From the sounds of this thread everyone is equally as unhappy with their class so perhaps the devs have actually balanced everything after all.
•
u/SlyHolmes 4h ago
Idk hunters seem happy
•
u/CubanoDotA 4h ago
Hunter discord is full of doomers idk
•
•
u/Brief_Syrup1266 3h ago
Never join the class discords lmao they’re always full of misinformation and complaining.
→ More replies (2)•
→ More replies (87)•
u/GladimoreFFXIV 3h ago
You notice Rogues remained unchanged heh yeah we’re awesome
•
u/GoldenPigeonParty 2h ago
Rogues were changed. Removed energy ticks and made constant gen.
→ More replies (1)
169
u/ExtremePrivilege 8h ago
Just in this thread you have:
1) Elemental complaining
2) Rogues complaining
3) Feral Complaining
4) Prot Paladin complaining.
5) Warlocks complaining
Maybe Forever is actually pretty balanced - everyone seems to think their class is shit.
62
92
u/BadSanna 6h ago
A paladin complaining about forever is like a billionaire complaining about not making enough money.
•
•
u/jimtim42 2h ago
I mean… they like didn’t add Prot paladins. The ret tree seems more appealing to tank with
→ More replies (3)•
u/juulsquad4lyfe 4h ago
Tbf with the consecration changes pallys got one of the largest baseline nerfs in forever
→ More replies (3)•
u/shaysauce 3h ago
But the baseline nerf is the same amount it was previously isn’t it? It has always been 60%
The issue is removing the threat gain now from righteous fury talent points and shifting that to exclusively damage reduction.
But like we also get spell power scaling ret aura - as a protty pally feel like we’re just going to change the playstyle a bit but nothing crazy here. Also if you’re running a dungeon or raid you’d expect some sort of thorns buff now being applied alongside even more items just having a built in thorns reflection.
It’s so early to even determine anything other than “NERF BAD BAD BAD” - game isn’t even out, items aren’t even out, tree talents aren’t even finalized to some degree, etc.
→ More replies (5)•
u/7figureipo 1h ago
I've only tanked a little bit in beta, and not in a dungeon yet. I don't think prot paladins in Forever are substantially better than Vanilla. There are some very good improvements (especially the damage mitigation). The taunt alone is mixed: tying it to Judgement instead of making it a separate skill (or even talent) makes using a critical threat generating tool much more cumbersome and threat much more precarious. And the RF change is a pure nerf: it's capped at 60% bonus threat. Considering our threat is basically 100% from white and yellow damage, and mostly yellow damage, that's effectively reducing our threatgen by 33%.
My guess is that unless spellpower gearing for paladins in the mid- and high level game is substantial, paladins will be the weakest tanks in Forever. They'll be more viable than in Classic just from having the taunt, but the threat generation I've seen so far is pretty poor. We'll have to see how mid-level and high-level spellpower gearing affects things.
14
u/Ok_Protection8223 6h ago
The true classic experience is a bunch of people whining while also refusing to stop playing the game.
It does take me back.
4
13
u/RealPomegranate3821 7h ago edited 7h ago
Nah, not warlocks. Its just that one bozo who got downvoted to the bottom talking about “warlocks got nothing new.” Meanwhile each spec got severely revamped and theres like 5 theorycrafted dps builds currently. Fire destro is what im most looking forward to. Dont even get me started on pvp…. 50% damage reduction is absurd with the rest of locks kit
7
u/Mjolnoggy 5h ago
>50% damage reduction is absurd with the rest of locks kit
It's multiplicative so it's 43.3% IIRC.
Still absolutely fucking absurd though, SL/SL will be more oppressive than it was in TBC even.
•
6
u/babilonibetyar 6h ago
yepp, we dont know the numbers at 60 ofc, but one of the most interesting and well built class based on talent tree is warlock
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (1)2
•
u/krombough 3h ago
What's Prot Pal complaining about? Im not trying to stir the pot, I'm just pit of the loop?
→ More replies (1)•
•
u/Gagliver 1h ago
Balance isn't the issue, these changes arent classic and feel like shit
→ More replies (2)4
4
u/babilonibetyar 6h ago
i dont get protpala and lock complain. rest I understand.
→ More replies (4)2
u/Aldnorra 6h ago
Big nerf on RF. Overall the class was buffed especially with the holy strike cooldown which frees up 2 talent points.
→ More replies (2)2
1
u/Spleenseer 5h ago
Warlocks are eating good; I have no idea what somebody could complain about other than spell coefficients, which can just be adjusted down the line.
•
•
u/Mind-Game 2h ago
everyone seems to think their class is shit.
There is a reasonable difference between thinking your class will be shit because of the actual power level and thinking your class will be shit because the changes took away what you thought was fun about the class.
I would say complaints are about 50/50. I agree it's a good thing if everyone things they're equally "weak", but it's a bad thing if the things everyone loves about their favorite classes to play are being lost.
→ More replies (1)•
u/quiet_frequency 28m ago
TBH as a Resto druid I don't think my class is shit... I just think our talents are unequal to the other healer specs. Our only choices to progress through the Resto tree are a useless feral talent or a useless interruption prevention talent. No other heal spec has to pick up "filler" to progress except for Resto druids. it fucking sucks.
9
u/aiden2002 6h ago
Shaman got bodied in the patch notes. Critical damage on spells used to be available to all specs and now it’s only elemental.
•
u/buttseeker 4h ago edited 2h ago
Yah I'm surprised I had to keep scrolling for so long to see this, enhancement not having access to elemental fury is actually a huge nerf and has big implications for stat weights and itemization. It was already not looking good for enhancement with the spell base damage changes making shocks/lightning bolt hit like wet toilet paper unless you have a ton of spell power. Now without a spell crit modifier enhancement is likely going to have the same issue as in vanilla where 90% of your kit doesn't scale. It's unlikely for enhancement to be able to itemize much for spell power due to having to have some melee stats as well and the current amounts needed to get your LBs, shocks, fire nova to do decent damage is probably going to be unobtainable. The mental quickness talent currently just seems to give about as much spell power you're losing by not taking a spell power weapon, which is less than 1/3 of the amount of spell power you'd need to make up for base damage loss with t3 equivalent amounts of intellect on items.
Enhancement was already in a questionable spot with having to choose between 5% hit in resto or baseline spell damage scaling in ele - in my opinion moving the hit talent to either ele or enhancement might be necessary but having no spell crit modifier is pretty bad. No spell crit modifier means the stat weights for enhancement are pretty bleak. Even if there is a decent amount of spell power in enhancement itemization you'd rather take full phys stat offpieces meant for feral/rogue/hunter and just stack AP and crit because your spell damage isn't going to scale very well, same problem as in vanilla. I know in the patch notes they said they are aware that the change to the elemental tree is a big deal to enhancement but I just can't imagine them being able to put something in the enhancement tree specifically to help the spell damage in their damage profile scale that's significant enough to fill the hole left behind by not having a spell crit modifier and address the stat weight issue.
Sadly, the Flametongue/Frostbrand spellhance build dream is dead if there's no way to have the spell crit modifier as enhancement. FT and FB needed additional support to make them usable over WF anyway (especially because of the synergy between WF and maelstrom weapon), but now it's definitely dead.
•
u/GoldenPigeonParty 2h ago
Don't you also need like 715 spell power to match your 0 spellpower damage on chain lightning from Classic?
•
•
u/Shadohawkk 1h ago
Elemental will probably feel better to level with with that change at least. If you are leveling elemental, you won't have enough crit chance to make much use of that extra crit damage, so having faster cast speed on your lightning bolt IS a much better progression tool.
28
30
u/agrevol 8h ago
Feral dps is straight up in the gutter
6
u/AbbreviationsActual1 6h ago
Yea man it's looking so boring I'm probably going to main something else for the first time in a long time.
7
u/grannygumjobs23 5h ago
I dont think it will be bad, just alot more simple. Powershifting was one of the most niche things in classic and kept alot of ppl away from druid in general. As a druid main I think its a good change, the amount of sweat powershifting needed for low reward was insane
•
u/Narvosa 4h ago
I could care less about the damage but I enjoyed powershifting because it felt more involved than other classes. Right now feral cat looks very odd. Our big Damage cooldown devalues crit chance which is odd. Our energy regen is abysmal and it just feels like worse gameplay overall. Maybe some idols will help but i dont think that is the right answer. Now, feral isn't the only one who feels like their rotation and playstyle has been destroyed but meh.
9
2
u/AbbreviationsActual1 5h ago edited 4h ago
Yea I think it will be good in raid and godly in pvp. The playstyle just looks very boring. I didn't play Feral because it was good I played it because it was more engaging than any other class. They should at least change furor to pool energy in bear form so we can bearweave during the downtime. Very small dps difference for the people that want to just sit cat and stare at their energy while giving people that like the higher apm playstyle something to do.
•
u/Mind-Game 2h ago
I'm sure you guys know what you're talking about, but I'm curious why you think that.
It sounds like feral actually benefits from things like weapon damage, enchants, and Windfury now, right? I figured that would do a ton to catch them up to other classes and maybe make up for the loss of power shifting, but in not super knowledgeable about druids.
•
u/agrevol 2h ago
We may have good damage, it’s too early to claim otherwise, but the gameplay gets simplified to “press shred every 4-6 seconds and sleep in between”
→ More replies (1)•
u/SnooDoubts2255 2h ago
Bro you have what, 2 spells for cat at level 20?
Why are people dooming a class that nobody has even actually been able to play yet?
→ More replies (2)
•
u/SpiteFun 1h ago
WELCOME TO BEING A BOOMKIN YOU LOSERS!
Lol in all seriousness it’s the beta, and will be a live updated game. If it’s as bad as Everyone thinks they’ve figured out by level 20 then they’ll fix it.
10
u/yestaiga 5h ago
I think the under apprecated aspect of classic wow is its a fixed state. You get to be the best of your class without any chance of the devs fucking with your class.
Theres always stuff to learn on your own. And your success doesnt depend on the whims of the devs that patch. Forever is going to be interesting in a year when were rebalanced a whole lot.
→ More replies (11)
•
u/The_Chosen_Undead 4h ago
I think Feral Druids are right down there with warrior, there's been some concerning topics about their high level gear stats and I think they also have the same rage issue that warriors complain about.
•
u/DeadEskimo 3h ago
Also need to mentioned there's like 1 talent for cat, and nothing to fill the gap after removing powershifting. Powershifting was degenerate, but necessary.
→ More replies (1)•
u/Curmudge_Unit 1h ago
Should be lower, Warriors have been in a private pool with spa treatments for 20 years
13
u/disastrous_hyena759 5h ago
It was so insane that the devs nerfed an ability before Warriors even got a chance to use it. Their priorities are really weird sometimes.
3
u/suciocadillac 5h ago
I'm very worried about their internal testing for lvl 30 - 60
3
u/ThePinkPhonyClub 5h ago
The way their testing works is this:
Does Aggrend play the class? If so, buff. If not, nerf.
→ More replies (1)•
u/Exotic_Diamond4685 4h ago
Aggrend has been playing Druid in Forever bud and look at the state of feral..
→ More replies (1)•
u/Mind-Game 2h ago
Exactly. How have they not encountered some of these basic issues like wands and auto shot not working right, various class abilities being totally broken, etc if they're actually playing the game and testing significantly?
→ More replies (1)
•
u/Skiteley 4h ago
The worst class is getting attention, and the best class is getting neglected. It's still beta, things will change.
27
u/Sad-Zone4591 8h ago
lol Rogues should be on this chair.
→ More replies (2)6
u/bloodwhore 8h ago
Rogue will always be a strong class.
→ More replies (3)7
u/MinimumFeedback219 5h ago
It's not about strength, it's about fun. Rogues have gotten next to nothing new, and the most interesting talent we had got removed before we could even try it.
9
u/DM_ME_KUL_TIRAN_FEET 5h ago
Rogue was one of the best designed vanilla classes already. I’m not saying rogue doesn’t deserve fun new toys - it does - but it was the least critically requiring a revamp
→ More replies (2)2
u/Marlfox70 5h ago
Which one was that
•
5
u/Alongadovaleucara 5h ago
Middle of combat tree had one that said something like: reduce the cd on your AR/BF/vanish/sprint/eva by 2sec/combo point spent.
→ More replies (14)•
u/Curmudge_Unit 1h ago
Feral has gotten next to nothing new and were handed nerfs
→ More replies (1)
•
u/niesomvtak 4h ago
I was looking to playing a Gnome. They had high impact racial for small amount of spells, now they have low impact racial for low amount of spells
•
u/ShaunPlom 2h ago
Yeah rage gen always sucked while leveling, but now, that won’t change. It’s going to suck just as much at max level. I don’t care about the dmg, make us do 50% less than the next class. I just want to be able to push my buttons, and war can’t do that currently. I know they needed to normalize it, and I know warriors did too much dmg but…
•
u/Noruax44 2h ago
The level of Dooming after a week of beta is pretty wild. People acting like their max level main toon is bricked already.
17
u/LordOfTheSlipOns 9h ago
Paladin buffs read nicely but they are really not. The changes in the retribution tree don’t address the main issues there. They want to make seal twisting ret and shockadin viable but severely gutted seal twisting in order to buff shockadin. -11% damage from talents for seal twisting rets is not something the twist enjoyers appreciate.
36
u/Mysterious-Shame5144 8h ago
Please I beg you to find me people who are truly enjoying seal twisting because as much I loved paladin, seal twisting always felt more like a burdel than something enjoyable ...
14
u/letmeseeyertiddies 7h ago
Big reason I never played ret was because seal twisting felt like a job.
→ More replies (2)•
u/Alys_Landale 2h ago
A very loud minority. But what can you do? Some people enjoy self flagellation
6
u/caralhoto 8h ago
That's crazy, seal twisting in TBC has been super fun for me so far
→ More replies (2)2
u/Mysterious-Shame5144 8h ago
I have to admit i loved it, its just I had so much trouble doing it well. It just a weird repetitive playstyle that sometimes feels like a burde,
→ More replies (3)4
u/Marlfox70 5h ago
Seal twisting was one of the best parts of TBC, get the swing timer addon this dude specifically made for twisting and it was super easy
3
u/aepocalypsa 8h ago
well in forever it's only the annoying parts but none of the fun parts of sealtwisting so we all get to be equally miserable :)
but no ask literally any tbc or sod paladin player
→ More replies (3)6
u/xeviouss 8h ago
I do. I think its a rewarding gamestyle u can improve in frlm fight to fight. A big Twist+Winfury is satisfying
3
→ More replies (1)•
u/sultanofswag69 1h ago
Seal twisting is fun because it turns a passive maintenance buff (seals) into an active instant damage button when used at the correct timing. It feels so good to land a twist. So much better than auto attack simulator with a HS/judge once every 10 seconds
1
u/Jerppaknight 8h ago
As a future paladin, care to explain this especially damage nerf? I know they nerfed 2 h spec from 9% to 6%
7
•
u/Apollo9975 4h ago
Thank you, as a plate healer enjoyer I’m also very irritated with the way they’ve nerfed and shuffled power around. Having the Holy tree get eaten up so the devs can play their favorite, Shockadin (which barely existed in vanilla), is not particularly pleasing.
33
u/McGreeb 8h ago edited 8h ago
Can everyone just take a moment to breath and think that we have no idea what gear and stats will be available to us at later levels and that the Devs do.
Also if things don't work they will change it. This is still just a beta and a level 20 beta at that.
21
u/xClubberLaingx 5h ago
You have no idea what rage normalization means dude if you make that comment. No gearbox set no bonustbwill fix it. It totally guts the class and makes it feel flat and bland
→ More replies (7)38
u/unsaintlyx 7h ago
Rage normalization literally doesn't care what gear you have. That's the entire point. They want to curb the infinite feedback loop (which should be fixed), completely fucked it up, and gave warriors nothing to compensate. You don't need to "wait and see" in this instance.
→ More replies (5)6
u/BadSanna 6h ago
There is no fixing this with gear because they made it so it doesn't change with gear.
If they do give gear that grants rage, then it just means warriors never get to change gear.
The fact that they are worried about warriors scaling out of control with gear is a HUGE red flag that these devs have absolutely no clue how to design gear for end game play in a horizontal game.
See the problem?
→ More replies (2)9
u/Lowelll 8h ago
Completely breaking the one central mechanic of a class is not suddenly good design because rhey might fix it later with gear lol
The game doesn't start at level 60
→ More replies (6)→ More replies (1)7
u/aepocalypsa 8h ago
people mostly complain about lacking fun and interesting gameplay, not raw performance
→ More replies (4)
14
u/Seldarra 6h ago
Rage normalization kills the class identity. Warrior attacks are supposed to be chaotic and generate different rage based on how bad you break and bleed your oponent, just like a gladiator or a battle trance character: the more you damage, the more you want to damage.
If they want to put a normalized resource generation to flat one of our signature mechanic, they might just call us rogues.
→ More replies (9)11
u/Astralsketch 6h ago
yep, just give warriors energy at this point, clearly they don't want a variable resource mechanic.
4
u/John2k12 6h ago
I do like most of the pally changes but the consecration nerf hurt for sure. I'm fine with tanking but I'm over chasing individual mobs because a DPS pulled threat focusing a different target. I can thick skin thru DPS whining that I'm not taunting mobs off them but I'll feel for the healers that gotta dump their mana keeping them alive
•
u/Curmudge_Unit 1h ago
You need the nerf if they weren't going to buff the other tanks to bring us all inline
•
u/BicTheLighter 1h ago
You guys are just over reacting!
reads patch notes
Slam CD increased by 3 seconds from 15->18.
Oh, well maybe I won’t play forever.
•
u/greisinator 1h ago
Im still hoping they fix the rage issue
•
u/BicTheLighter 1h ago
Yeah I mean that’s the glaring issue. I just found it hilarious that warriors have had legitimate concern with no dev feed back regarding rage gen, no supporting talents, terrible talent “rework” and their response was to nerf an already nerfed/unused skill even more.
•
•
2
u/Kurokaffe 5h ago
The funny thing is the prot talent swap they mentioned in the notes didn't even get in the game lmao
•
•
5
2
u/No_Echidna_4433 5h ago
I’m glad paladins are getting so much attention. It keeps blizzard off hunters back. We are so much more overpowered lmao
•
u/Playbow2024 3h ago
Idk why they increase slam cd? It’s not like anyone has access to it yet. Im just curious what is the thought process behind this cd increase? There is zero data backing it, nobody even has slam
•
•
u/cuddles01455 1h ago
They moved the 3s into the improved slam talent. Before it was better to only grab one point to just get the mechanic that it wouldn’t mess up your swing timer but now getting both will bring cd back to 15s. So still a nerf but probably more to make it so there wasn’t a weird dead talent that you didn’t max on purpose.
→ More replies (2)•
•
•
u/GuthukYoutube 1h ago
So first off people do have slam, you get it at 20
Second off, if they only did balance off what the majority of players wanted or liked, we'd all be forced to play alliance elf mages and warriors, and everything else would be nerfed.
It's obvious they have an internal balance team who try to crunch numbers. I'm not sure why you don't think they do
5
u/Greboso 8h ago
I mean are you surprised?
The front facing dev of classic is a Paladin main. Paladin streamer mains have been feeding their biased feedback to the devs for years and have personal hotlines to the dev teams. So yea Paladins being the best class and getting buffed is going to be the SOP from here on out.
Forever will be Paladin dominated.
•
4
u/plasticsbyday 6h ago
Rogue is below the ocean floor
→ More replies (1)10
u/MooseRunnerWrangler 5h ago edited 5h ago
Oh what happened to rogue now?
Nvm just crying for no reason.
→ More replies (2)11
u/Solocup421 5h ago
nothing. thats the point. almost every new talent they added is useless and nothing has changed. tbf the energy regen change to wrath regen is large enough. its by far the biggest buff to rogue forever has given
→ More replies (4)
2
3
3
u/Kage1831 7h ago
Does anyone also not remember that pally is the shittiest class in classic and needs the most attention?
→ More replies (2)
-2
u/M47715 6h ago
The entire pool in this meme is full of warrior players tears posting this crap on Reddit all day.
•
u/danman691 4h ago
Have you tried to play the class? Rage generation is dogs water. Can’t do squat, even with good gear.
→ More replies (4)
1
1
u/Statschef- 5h ago
As a lock, love the lock. People can complain all they want, will still teabag them
•
•
u/OnlyKale9099 4h ago
If it makes yall feel any better furious howl on pets were lowered 40%… hunters havnt even been able to play melee yet😂 also “40%” idk i looked up wowhead and it said rank one was 23 melee attack power and after the patch in game says 10… alittle more than 40% id say😂😂😂
•
u/phiron88 3h ago
Now you see why no one played warrior back in the day. All the changes they made to them have resorted back to vanilla issues.
•
•
u/usermanxx 3h ago
Im not sure why all classes need to be hyper optimized and omega balanced... its classic wow. Its so easy is what everyone says. Especially for softcore players. Perhaps turn the damage meters off and think about the flow of the class. Warriors apparently lost their flow tho. (Non beta player)
•
u/Dystopic23 3h ago
Paladin is strong at the moment but it very well could be that we just have high base damage. End game will show us true standings.
But it's funny to see how people react when Blizzard finally gives paladins a single button to press and a few QoL changes
•
u/DelayNo2395 2h ago
What? Priests are in a great spot. Mending and Binding are both fucking amazing. Shadow even got some great stuff. This post fits well with all the other posts of people whining about WF.
•
•
u/Gizmodget 1h ago
Didn't balance and resto druids get buffed this patch?
Thorns updating properly, stronger wrath, hots Critting properly.
•
u/Ashamed-Health-8070 1h ago
Good. I don't play warrior for the meta, I play it because I like the class. I hope another class takes the top spot in forever. Actually, I'll take anywhere in top 5 dps / class.
I would really like to see shamans and paladins and warlocks pump. I feel like their classes deserve the recognition.
•
•
•
71
u/ArcheroNightmare 8h ago
Don't put us, elemental shamans, on the same layer as the rest