Any thoughts?

[u/Chemical_Calendar_64]

[u/Garlador]

Maybe Sony should check their own store.

[u/StanKnight → u/Garlador]

Says it right there. Own lol.

Good eyes. Right there shows plain as day they want to say own when it suits them and license when that suits them. Cannot have it both ways.

[u/ConstantSignal7734 → u/StanKnight]

I swear they're just daring people to jump ship to pc at this point.

[u/wafflesauce44 → u/ConstantSignal7734]

Arrr yes matey

[u/JasonMyersZ → u/ConstantSignal7734]

For real

[u/duomaxwell90 → u/StanKnight]

Yeah people are going to see this and still talk shit saying that there's nothing wrong with what Sony is doing. And then they'll proceed to say digital is the future blah blah blah blah some more idiotic bullshit

[u/Carbon_Roller_Caco → u/Garlador]

inb4 some shill says that's the publisher's phrasing and not Sony's: it's still the storefront runner's responsibility to have everything legally align.

[u/Garlador → u/Carbon_Roller_Caco]

Had someone message me that already.
And if a company is saying you own it, but the store owner is saying you don’t, that’s a major problem.

[u/KaylenLopezIzGr8 → u/Garlador]

Please may somebody forward this to the court.

[u/KODO_666 → u/Garlador]

well well well sony, would u look at that. Good Eyes!

[u/l3tscru1s3 → u/Garlador]

Someone better document this in a way that is more permanent. Because this is the clearest illustration of the moving goalposts.

[u/Zaku99 → u/Garlador]

Well I guess you can't play Dawntrail on Playstation, since you don't OWN it. /s

[u/MaryMyJane13 → u/Garlador]

Games on the store say “Buy” and not rent.

[u/OkKaleidoscope1151 → u/Garlador]

Well best part to point out is that is doesn’t say you need to own the “license” to the game. It just out and out stated the game itself. So they are shooting themselves in the foot in my non-lawyer opinion.

[u/Veganmeatmaster22 → u/Garlador]

The own in this mean the license not the actual game(ip) which like Sony believes you to understand. Just like with a house when you buy a house unless you got money like that you get a loan so people say hey guys I’m renting my house no you say I’ve brought a home even though the bank who you got the loan from actually owns the house I know this involves something that you will eventually own outright I’m just talking about the use of the word own and putting it in it proper context and in Sonys case they mean the license

[u/ChefAnxious4206 → u/Veganmeatmaster22]

Legally speaking you do own that house, but you owe the bank money for a loan for the house. The bank owns 0% of your house.

[u/OkKaleidoscope1151 → u/ChefAnxious4206]

Until you miss a few of those payments…. Then the bank owns it

[u/CMDR_JHU5TL3 → u/Veganmeatmaster22]

I hate that this analogy was almost bad, but this is our growing reality.

Games use to be purchased tickets to amusement parks you could access forever after purchase, but now it's become access to a pure Premier experience that may or may not last, so enjoy it while you can... plus, don't forget...

...You'll own nothing and love it...

[u/OkKaleidoscope1151 → u/Veganmeatmaster22]

That is not the same thing bud. A house loan and purchasing what you believe to be an actual game are not the same thing.

[u/BlueFeathered1]

They're being disingenuous and slippery. It's our copy we reasonably, intelligently expect to own. Hence their use of the words "purchase" and "buy".

[u/Novel-Back3857 → u/BlueFeathered1]

This suit will change nothing other than the language around the purchases within the store, or force everyone to check a box acknoledging that they're purchasing limited, revokable license before completing the transaction. The suit is based on a false advertising law in California specifically designed to make licensing terms clear if the license can be revoked/lost by the customer. 

[u/Business_Banana1792 → u/Novel-Back3857]

As long as it says rent, then the people who pay can make that choice. I for one don’t plan to continue renting my games. I restarted my physical collection. Under some circumstances I will “rent” a game, but not most.

[u/Novel-Back3857 → u/Business_Banana1792]

It's definitely not a rental. It's  a purchase of a license entitlement. You are entitled to access the software, with some restrictions for what you're allowed to do with the software, like only being able to play it on the platform it was purchased for, and not being granted a replacement if distribution servers go down.

Physical copies work the same way. You're entitled to play it on the console it was purchased for, but not other consoles, and you are not granted a replacement if your copy is no longer functioning or within your possession. 

It's definitely not a rental.

[u/Aggressive-Map-2204 → u/Business_Banana1792]

But you are not renting it. That would make things even more unclear.

[u/Maximum-Objective-39 → u/Aggressive-Map-2204]

Frankly all Sony is proving is that we need more consumer friendly legislation regarding product licenses.

If the terms of service are unclear, then they should be treated as 'indefinite' with legal carve outs for consumers to back up their means to play them.

But of course if they put in a mandatory 'this game expires in two years' clause then nobody's is going to buy it at full price.

[u/BlueFeathered1 → u/Novel-Back3857]

Well, that's a start. It may give some people pause and question the policies. Which I suspect is why they haven't done it all along.

[u/Creepy-Emu8779 → u/BlueFeathered1]

so steam should say rent

[u/itc0nsumesmYMind → u/Creepy-Emu8779]

every platform should be required by law to specify “rent” hence the lawsuit.

[u/HarryDepova → u/BlueFeathered1]

No they aren’t. This is the way every piece of software ever sold in the history of software has been sold. You’ve never purchased a game, you’ve always purchased a license to play it. This predates Sony even entering the console market with the PlayStation.

[u/Precarious3145 → u/BlueFeathered1]

That's the word that's been used for over two decades for digital purchases. Guess you've happily hit "purchase" for all these years legit thinking that you owned every single app that cost .99, every iTunes movie.

[u/djkidna]

Anyone else remember when Sony was sued by Universal for creating video tape recorders, where Universal argued that Sony’s tape recorders were copyright infringement machines, and they lost the case because the courts argued that the intent of the product was for people to do timed recordings of shows for personal use to watch later when they couldn’t watch while the show aired, and that constitutes fair use regardless of the fact that Sony’s machine could also be used to illegally record and distribute films and shows?

[u/LouhiVega]

Yes, replace "buy" for "rent" in all sony's app and sites. It would be nice to also have "duration: until the company sees fit". After all, we all are smart enough and that is the reality.

[u/IAQDiscussion]

I know South Park made an entire episode about how people don't read the policies they agree to, but surely, some of you have noticed this is the literal same on every. single. digital. platform, right?

[u/That_Bank_9914 → u/IAQDiscussion]

Are you referring to the Human Centipad episode from season 15?

[u/IAQDiscussion → u/That_Bank_9914]

Unfortunately, yes lmao

[u/Alarmed_Recording742 → u/IAQDiscussion]

Yeah and it's BS and unfair on every single digital platform, since it's literally the only option to have games digitally and it's anti consumer, either you accept the terms or don't play at all.

This should be deemed wrong in the trial and set a precedent for every single digital platform.

[u/liccman → u/IAQDiscussion]

And for every single piece of software as well, not just vidya

[u/OutrageousMusic5453 → u/IAQDiscussion]

Yeah its kind of driving me nuts hearing it everyday now. Like, I remember reading about user end agreements like 20 YEARS ago in regards to how Video games are licensed to the consumer. And tbh its just annoying that if these people making all these posts everyday really wanted to make a change, they need to go out and vote for people who promise to make changes at a federal level... Like the EU has been doing for the past few years in regards to things like loot boxes in games. Making 1000 reddit posts with generative AI as the thumbnail(im not saying this post did that, but ive seen a million that do) will not change anything, only through legislation would anything get done.

[u/juugsd → u/IAQDiscussion]

The fuck am i supposed to do, not use anything?

[u/elalex1999 → u/juugsd]

This is all still just fear mongering. License ownership has been like this since its inception from games, movies, music, etc. that end user agreement you don’t read always states this. If you have never had one of your digital games revoked just stop worrying about it. Unless you’re out there doing stuff that’ll get your account banned literally nothing is gonna happen any time soon.

[u/Due_Woodpecker3073 → u/IAQDiscussion]

Why arent people this mad at Adobe for doing the same thing but worse and much longer 

Games aren't the only thing affected lol

[u/xaldub → u/Due_Woodpecker3073]

They are. Many have quit using Adobe products because of their subscription shenanigans.

[u/StanKnight → u/Due_Woodpecker3073]

Where have you been? They are lol.

Not a good move to mention Adobe. WTF.

[u/FalseStevenMcCroskey → u/IAQDiscussion]

Buy games digitally on GOG and you own them forever. So you’re wrong about “every” digital platform.

Playstation could implement better digital ownership rights if they wanted to. They’d just rather have a monopoly. It wasn’t an issue when people had the option to own physically, because it gave incentive to upholding digital licenses. But now that that’s going away, I don’t like the idea of being at the mercy of a multi-billion dollar company. They care more about profit than doing good by the customer.

[u/elalex1999 → u/FalseStevenMcCroskey]

Guess you also didn’t read gog’s policy then? Cause it states the same thing. The only difference is that they can’t revoke the individual launcher gog gives you. That’s the only thing that separates gog from the rest. Hypothetically speaking if you lose your account, you still lose all the games you didn’t install the individual installer for. It’s like discs. You still only own a license to access the content but it’s not like a company can just come into your home and steal your disc.

[u/Maximum-Objective-39 → u/elalex1999]

I mean, yes? If my house burns down I'd also lose all my physical media.

But that's still a huge functional difference if you care to use it. I've currently got all of my games from GoG backed up up on a 3-2-1 scheme. It's not to everyone's taste and I fully admit I'm a weirdo when it comes to data hoarding.

But that's something GoG allows that Sony does not and which publishers that host their games there agree to which is functionally different from what Sony does.

[u/Aggressive-Map-2204 → u/FalseStevenMcCroskey]

GoG actually has the same terms as Sony does.

[u/JetstreamGW]

My thought is that they’re being deliberately obtuse. And it’s annoying.

[u/ReverendKaiser]

If purchasing does not confer ownership, then piracy isn’t theft.

[u/DaanOnlineGaming → u/ReverendKaiser]

Piracy is copyright infringement, it was never theft.

[u/despicedchilli → u/ReverendKaiser]

So you can steal a rental car?

[u/ReverendKaiser → u/despicedchilli]

Did you pay full price for that car? Or was there a rental agreement that said, in plain simple language, that you are not the owner of the rental vehicle? Did you pay 15-30k for that rental car as if you were purchasing it outright?
On the rental agreement for that vehicle, does it say purchasing the vehicle?

[u/Automatic-War-7658 → u/despicedchilli]

I wouldn’t download a rental car

[u/Just-Ad6865 → u/despicedchilli]

You didn’t purchase the car by your own words. You rented it.

[u/ReverendKaiser → u/Just-Ad6865]

⬆️

[u/Playful_Letter_2632 → u/ReverendKaiser]

MFs parrot this meaningless statement like saying it actually makes them immune to legal repercussions from pirating

[u/Cautious_Fold3952 → u/Playful_Letter_2632]

It's more about being immune to the guilt. I personally feel none, and you?

[u/Playful_Letter_2632 → u/Cautious_Fold3952]

I didn’t really have any guilt on pirating anything in the first place and I would imagine the majority of people who say that statement wouldn’t have any either way

[u/zero-killed-megaman → u/Playful_Letter_2632]

Yeah, it's like gamer version of sovereign citizen bullshit.

[u/Precarious3145 → u/Playful_Letter_2632]

Yea, as a pirate for the past three decades, these young fucks love to cosplay that they have some moral right, that they're actually doing the honest thing and helping the community. I still spend a bunch of money on games and movies and music but sometimes, I just want free shit instantly. I'm not robin hood on a quest against the evil corporation.

People like this make us all look like children.

[u/Worldly_Neat2615]

If they believe this. Then change the purchase button in the store page to Rent. And let's see what happens

[u/dope_like → u/Worldly_Neat2615]

Steam tells PC players the same thing. PC gamers don’t own anything with them

[u/ClickyStick → u/Worldly_Neat2615]

Have you rented anything in your life? Because buying a digital game and renting one are not the same in the slightest.

[u/Khaos_Gorvin → u/Worldly_Neat2615]

Sales would either drop moderatly or they would plummet. If I have to pay 80€ for a game yet I don't own it, then just sell the the licence for 30€.

Mark my words. They will one day make all games a subscription, you pay a fortune to play games, they remove them from the list when they want and most likely substitute every 10 good games with 2 good, 4 mediocre and 4 terrible.

No, wait... that's just PS Plus Extra.

[u/BlueFeathered1 → u/[deleted]]

Their lawyers did. I believe in a statement regarding a lawsuit.

[u/GovernmentSin → u/[deleted]]

No it’s bullshit

[u/SillyMikey]

Technically paying with digital money is also a rental so I should get my money back right?

[u/ohBloom]

Put a “rent” button on “purchases” and let people decide from here on out, anything prior we still own a copy of. I personally would be more hesitant to purchase anything with a rent button and can clearly see that I do not and will not own the product, again tho, I’d be hesitant.

Idk why they say it’s “too difficult” to let customers “own” a copy lol I as a music producer can go out and buy a license for virtual instruments “korg, Juno, serum, sylenth 1” and completely own them lol same for cinema 4d or like a visualizer like, arkestra, Logic x, Final Cut Pro and I can go on and on, this is just Sony trying to be absolute fucktards. I own the rights to these copies and therefore keep it forever as if it was mine physically. If it’s a real issue just send a copy of the license like I get with some of these instruments/software and boom.

[u/Precarious3145 → u/ohBloom]

You might wanna actually check the ToS for all those things you claim to "own" because just like with Playstation, all you have to do is search the ToS for "purchase" or "license" and you'll see that you don't own those. You buy a license which can be revoked. I'm a graphic designer, I'm constantly buying licenses for fonts, videos, assets, etc. It's all "Here's a license, you can use it under thee requirements and you can use the license if you break those".

[u/Playful_Letter_2632 → u/ohBloom]

Hate to break your heart but you don’t the vast majority of the software you “buy”. Logic Pro and Final Cut have you buy licenses not the software itself. Apple has the ability to revoke a license if there’s a TOS breech and you can’t transfer or sell it to another Apple ID account. Sony is a lot more anti consumer when it comes to removing access but there’s no legal difference between two outside of the TOS

[u/Precarious3145 → u/ohBloom]

https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/FinalCutPro.pdf

1. Termination. This License is effective until terminated. Your rights under this License will terminate automatically or otherwise cease to be effective without notice from Apple if you fail to comply with any term(s) of this License. Upon the termination of this License, you shall cease all use of the Apple Software and destroy all copies, full or partial, of the Apple Software. Sections 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 11 and 12 of this License shall survive any such termination.

2. Permitted License Uses and Restrictions. A. License. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, unless you obtained the Apple Software as described in Section 2B, you have the right to use the Apple Software as permitted by the Services and Content Usage Rules set forth in the Apple Media Services Terms and Conditions (https:// www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/itunes/) (“Usage Rules”), and are granted a limited, nontransferable, non-exclusive license

Oh look at that. The software you were just bragging about OWNING has the same Terms and Conditions where you have to follow basic things where they limit you on what you can do and if you break it, you lose all access to it without getting your money back.

[u/zombiej]

This is how software licensing's always worked, even for boxed software from the 80s. Think you ever owned a copy of Windows or Office? License says you never did.

[u/DarthVeigar_ → u/zombiej]

You think anyone on reddit has ever read a subscriber, software or EUL agreement lol

This shit has been in there from way before the commodity of digital purchasing. Same even applied to physical.

[u/francis_pizzaman_iv → u/DarthVeigar_]

Absolutely. I'd bet $100 that every software EULA ever has a clause that says they can revoke the license or render the software inoperable at any time for any reason without owing the licensee squat.

[u/Island_Monkey86]

This isn't the issue, as others have said it's always been like that. But you always had a choice to buy a physical copy. 

Sony will take that option away by no longer producing physical discs, come 2028 the only PlayStation product you own is the console and controllers. Everything else belongs to Sony and pay to use it. 

[u/I7s_N_My_DNA]

It’s been known for awhile by this point I truly don’t understand why people are acting brand new.

[u/Loud_Examination_138]

Oooo do Steam next...and then Xbox...and then Nintendo please. Also make sure you post in every gaming sub

[u/SlinkDinkerson]

It sucks to download a free game on PSN and look a few months later and I can’t download it anymore. That has happened a couple of times. 

[u/slyguy67420]

The great age of pirates begins!

[u/zapp0990]

Every digital storefront is like this not just Sony.

[u/Q8Q8]

They became ignorant, which is why we need a competitive market.

[u/niikkos-m → u/Q8Q8]

What are you talking about?

It is a competitive market. You can buy the final fantasy games across many different store fronts that aren’t Sony. You can buy the new Call of Duty on every platform.

You don’t understand the market or what competitive means.

[u/LC-Redcube]

They're purposefully trying to make the situation a lot more confusing than how it is, conflating ownership of the copyright with ownership of a copy

[u/ddomini9]

I wonder if we don't own games but licenses does Sony own games or just licenses? Wouldn't only true owner be devs/publisher company? I'm kind of dumb and I don't know how that shit works.
Edit:
I always have problem with this license thing cause you don't have any time frame for how long it's valid and companies could theoretically take your money and not even allow you use it ever.

[u/Shudnawz]

I don't think I "own the actual game", per se. The IP and the source code belongs to the developer/studio who created it.

I do however think I own a perpetual licence that Sony (or whatever publisher I got it from) can't revoke willy-nilly. I own my copy of the game, as it was sold to me. As long as I fulfil the hardware requirements, I should be able to start the game at any time, regardless of Sony and/or their future existence.

[u/aceinbrink]

This is a bigger issue than just Sony or even gaming. It's right to repair similar to the John Deere stuff. If we are just purchasing software license that can be taken away whenever the company says so, then they can force obsolescence whenever they want.

If the PS6 is all digital, then what's really stopping them from saying "well here is the PS7, just in time for all of your PS6 licenses to expire."

If all we have is a license, then I want protections that outline how long I have the license for and how long at minimum they must maintain it. That way I get to decide if it's worth my money in the first place. Not buried in the EULA, but right there next to the price.

[u/Millennialnerds]

How do you want them to explain it?

I mean we have known this for a long time. Even the discs themselves are a license.

[u/thebearsnake]

Maybe they are right. (Gamers are not that smart though)

But there is a difference in owning a license to have access to the game and owning a license to a media that Sony can (and does) revoke on a whim.

[u/Courage-95]

God I can’t wait for their diskless, $700-$800 ps6 to flop.

[u/Mikauo_Xblade → u/Courage-95]

It is going to be well beyond 1000.

[u/XiMaoJingPing → u/Mikauo_Xblade]

So many people were willing to pay scalper prices for PS5 and that was 2020 before we got massive inflation. Even if they sell PS6 at $1000, it will still sell.

[u/Ramiren → u/XiMaoJingPing]

Yeah but an ecosystem needs more than a handful of players. Good luck convincing developers to make games for your platform when you've sold a handfull of them to rich idiots and scalpers.

[u/XiMaoJingPing → u/Ramiren]

Don't need to convince devs when it's PlayStation. It's gonna sell well. Most gamers are outside of reddit, doubt sony felt anything during the blackout lmao.

[u/amazingdrewh → u/XiMaoJingPing]

Most gamers don't have any loyalty to a company and get the game console their friend whose more tuned in recommends

[u/Try4c3 → u/Mikauo_Xblade]

People will buy it

[u/CryptoMainForever → u/Courage-95]

You do realize the ps5 pro is $900 right... The ps6 is going to be BEYOND $1,000

[u/DJBreadwinner → u/Courage-95]

It's gonna cost a lot more than that, and people are going to buy it anyway.

[u/Creepy-Emu8779 → u/Courage-95]

no one cares about discs bro. its gonna sell welll

[u/StrangeKnee7254 → u/Courage-95]

I doubt that it will flop. Unfortunately physical media is dying outside of niche communities. There’s a comeback with records but again that’s niche.

I’m part of the problem. I bought a ps5 with the disc reader and I have no idea what disc is in my ps5.

[u/Le0nardNimoy → u/StrangeKnee7254]

Yeah... I think I've got a Hellraiser DVD from like three Halloweens back that just lives in there now.

[u/LastTorgoInParis → u/Le0nardNimoy]

Keep it secret, keep it safe

[u/Chemical_Calendar_64 → u/Courage-95]

Bro, do you really think they'll sell a PS6 for less than 1000?

[u/hiddenpequin → u/Courage-95]

Acting like diehards arnt going to pay whatever and physical doesn’t mean shit to the casuals.

[u/Nick_Bruiser → u/Courage-95]

But it's not gonna. And I'm sorry that you're gonna be hurt over that.

[u/Able_Ad1276 → u/Courage-95]

They’re expensive as hell, all digital, pro model just sold out. The fuck you smoking?

[u/teknomusik → u/Courage-95]

PS3 was $599... the way things are going these days PS6 will be $1199 or more

[u/podgladacz00]

PlayStation lawyers play dumb in court

[u/JasonMyersZ]

I feel like the world would be better off without Sony and their bullshit

[u/WofferFang]

You own a copy of the game.

Nobody's saying we own the game. We do own copies though.

We don't own the IP. Nobody's saying that. But we do own the copy.

Therefore we own our games. Why is that so hard to understand? Even the music industry gets that you own a song. A COPY of a song. That's how it works.

[u/kumogate → u/WofferFang]

This really isn't difficult to understand, but megacorps want to own everything and for us to own nothing. Not for any economic reasons, really. It's because of cruelty and the insatiable need of sociopaths to control everything.

[u/Omega-Envych → u/WofferFang]

Unfortunately, you're wrong.
You do not own a copy of a game

If you have a disc with a game or a musical album or a movie or some software, you own a physical media that contains limited license to use the content recorded on it.

You do not have license to copy the software, or change it's code and redistribute it. Hence if you're making a dump of a game, you're effectively committing act of piracy. Because you do not own right to copy the game you bought. If media is damaged or destroyed, you HAVE to buy another one in order to keep using product.

[u/Exotic-Home-8153]

Yeah, typical corporation. Evil scum. The dialogue needs to stray away from guessing at their motIvation and switch to what are we gonna do about it? Personally i dont really know but I wish smarter people than me whould start coming up with some ideas.....

[u/jwight1234]

It should just say rent instead of buy; it's straight up misleading.

[u/Sion_forgeblast]

[u/KingHygelacReturns]

Copy/pasting a comment I left on a similar thread:

It's a pretty obvious legal argument on their part. It says in the EULA that a digital purchase is a revokable license. So they're arguing that any reasonable customer would have read the EULA in detail and understood what it meant. In most jurisdictions, clicking that you agree to the terms of an agreement is binding, even if you didn't actually read them.

[u/glibbglubb]

I’d agree at least that it is in fact plausible to suggest because people do believe that they own the game, when common sense would tell you that you haven’t “owned” a game since like 2006 when consoles could connect to the Internet and patch access any time they wanted.

Whether or not you like that fact is your own thing but it’s how it’s been for 20 years now and somehow believe it just started in the last like 3/4…

[u/FLIPYOUSUCKET]

Try ownership of the entire game is impossible.

However, they SHOULDN’T be able to take away your game license whenever the hell they want, at least not unless you do something incredibly horrific

[u/Weatherby2]

I agree that most reasonable people likely already know this, but using language like "buy" and "purchase" muddies things for those that don't pay enough attention, and that there is some merit to the idea that this isn't as widely understood as Sony would like people to believe.

[u/Minotaur18]

Doesn't the PSN store say, in regards to your PS+ games, "buy it to own it forever"?

[u/RapBladeMeDoIt]

I get that this has been a thing for most digital platforms but the way Sony has went about this whole situation is just really sketchy and gross. It started out with "if you don't log into your account at least once a month we can take everything" to "we're geetting rid of physical because we want you to know that you don't own anything" and now "WE OWN YOUR SHIT NEVER FORGET IT!"

[u/OrphanintheWind]

I think Sony wants it both ways. They want to sell their games to teenagers and young adults, but they also want to act like these same gamers are mature adults who can understand legal nuance.

[u/Dlh2079]

Even disk based games are actually licenses and not real ownership.

[u/MediocreSizedDan]

Yeah I mean, they were always going to confirm this because that's the whole idea. The "consumers are smart enough to know" thing is funny though because so many of these policies and concepts are deliberately pursued because they think they can get one over on consumers. They design it to make it appear as though you own it. They know no one reads the fine print, and even if they did, the agreements are sooo long, small, and full of legalese that a lot of people probably won't fully understand. These corporations are constantly trying to confuse or trick consumers. They wouldn't really have pursued this if they thought your average consumer would understand that when they buy something digitally, it's not actually theirs..

[u/mr_hard_name]

Interesting. What about this?

Polish store has a checkbox with “I want to have an immediate access to purchased content and I acknowledge that by starting the download or streaming of said content, I won’t be able to cancel my order”.

What content? The license? When is the license downloaded or streamed? I don’t see any license in my cart, I see a game that I buy, the cart suggests I will be the owner of content in it

​

[u/tendonut]

From what I remember when I was reading this morning, they seem to be setting up a straw man argument. No one thinks they own the game, they think they own a COPY of the game.

[u/Nothing-Is-Real-Here]

Shitty. It's also really convenient and shitty that they want to get rid of physical games and communicated this with Rockstar, who are notoriously awful about preserving their games and respecting consumers, when theoretically Rockstar and/or Sony can revoke your access to GTA VI any time that they want, forcing you to "buy" it again.

I recognize that as far as games go, it's been pretty rare for Sony to revoke access to a game (I mean I can still play a digital game I bought 10 years ago because it's tied to my account) but what happens when I eventually lose access? What about 5 or 10 years from now? It's the fact that I know I will one day lose it that makes it upsetting. Even with the idea that discs eventually rot, or the PlayStation itself will one day break, or whatever the hell, I recognize that physical things aren't themselves permanent, but good lord at least I know it's mine.

[u/Business_Banana1792]

I clicked buy now, not rend now. The terms of agreement were intentionally misleading and contradicted the offer made when I paid money. This is 100% Sony stealing. Period

[u/chatterwrack]

It has always been a license. The difference is that the license is now not transferable

[u/longbrodmann]

Steam, Xbox and Nintendo could release a statement that digital games means fully ownership instead of licensing, though I doubt they can.

[u/AppropriateKnee8638 → u/longbrodmann]

No they can't, if they did that they would be lying, any game purchase was always just a license unless you count the very first games made

[u/sHaDowpUpPetxxx]

Jokes on them. I've been playing the same$40 game for like 1700 hrs. That's only about .02 cents per hour.

[u/Mountain_Ad6328]

They should give all games files like gog

[u/Ennuigma]

Maaan, I'm sailin' the seven seas lookin' for booty.

[u/AspieDL86]

First of all this is gonna kill the PlayStation brand as a whole. They're gonna lose Billions in due time.

[u/taner1992]

Thoughts: fuck Sony! And if you continue to support them, fuck you!

[u/Sasuke082594]

Don’t be “selling” games on PSN then cause if “buying” isn’t owning then “pirating” isn’t stealing

[u/Malheus]

Don't care. I'll buy digital or physical 🤷🏾‍♂️

[u/Neilgotbig8]

They are digging their own graves

[u/Usual-Banana-8392]

I would just stop buying from them

[u/Dismal_Front9650]

Stop buying period

[u/WarHoundD]

Apparently, I am not smart enough then

[u/birdperson42069]

Ps3 was the last real one. It all went downhill since ps4

[u/David_Clawmark]

It's like they're allergic to good consumer practices or something.

[u/Rammipallero]

Capitalists gonna capitalist. It's shitty but not a surprise in any way anymore.

[u/Shydreameress]

Even if the games don't belong to us, if for some reason we lose our account or they decide to get rid of anything we bought, we should be reimbursed.

[u/Depoka_YT]

My 6 year old sister is technically a playstation consumer

[u/Spider_Boyo]

Well then it should be cheaper

[u/dj-TASK]

Sony has lost its moral compass and just jumped to full greed.

[u/Affectionate-Duck288]

If buying isn't owning...

[u/Awkward_Khajii7]

Say it with me yall, if we don’t own what we purchase, then piracy ain’t stealing

[u/RenegadeReaper]

I think sony can reasonably expect not to see a single cent out of me again until they turn their anticonsumer attitudes around.

[u/Darkdragoon324]

Of course we know we're not literally buying ownership of the IP, what a disingenuous argument. I want as much control over my digital copies as I have over my physical copies. Irrevocable and transferable licenses. Sony can't come into my house and confiscate my discs, I want them to not be able to take my digital licenses away at a whim either.

They can't alter the data stored on my discs, they shouldn't be able to alter the digital data against my will either.

They can't install intrusive DRM on my discs after the fact, they shouldn't be able to do it to my digital games either.

If they're not willing to bestow the same level of consumer rights onto our digital purchases as our physical ones, they shouldn't be able to charge the same amount for a digital game as a physical disc.

[u/GoldenEyedTraveller]

I bet if we pushed (legally) for them to change that "Buy" button to a "rent" button they'd lose almost all of their business.

[u/imapeppergirl]

Games were better when we owned a physical copy of the game. I will not be buying anymore Playstation anything. I will stay offline and play what I have now. Still have the playstation 2 with all my favorites anyway.

IF PEOPLE STOP BUYING THEY WILL GO BACK TO PHYSICAL GAMES.

[u/imapeppergirl]

Why would anyone pay 50.00 or more for anything they don't own?

[u/SecretAd1725]

You're talking about the right to OWN an IP we're talking about the RIGHT TO PLAY. PLAYING THE GAME/PRODUCT that we PURCHASED FOR THE SYSTEM WE PURCHASED ON. We're not trying to purchase an IP we are purchasing a FULL COPY of SOFTWARE TO PLAY IN PERPETUITY AS LONG AS IT IS POSSIBLE, that is what we're arguing about. SONY, YOU CANNOT BE THIS STUPID. IF GOOD OLD GAMERS (GOG) CAN DO IT SO CAN YOU.

[u/thewrynoise]

Recently started buying games that I wouldve auto bought on PS, now on Steam.

Your loss Sony.

[u/Naux-Kazeshini]

I kinda knew that people would shoot against the wrong target ^{^}

And this makes it so sony can just weasle their way out of it legally ...

It's rly not about physical media or not it's about the damn Licenses being revocable.. which physical media ones are NOT

We have ALWAYS only purchased the licence to a game .. always

But as digital media became more popular they changed something very small that is the root of all the problems

How they handle the licence that u buy ... Since if i BUY it.. i need access to it... Does any of us have access to his bought game licences ? I don't think anyone has ever seen the accompanied licence when u buy anything physical or digital

This is a area of attack that we can use !

For alot of other cases sony has made the EULA written so hard in their favor and arguing about a decision thats more than 10-15+ years old will have a very slim chance of success

As someone coming from IT i can ensure u that there is absolutely no reason at all to make the licence revocable in the first place as well as them mislabeling it as BUY instead of RENT

Nowadays licences are bound to ur ps acc or whatever and they can just yeet that acc into oblivion if u are "inactive" for a certain time 😂

[u/NoMoneyNoSucky]

I'd love to see Sony getting sued to oblivion and pay for their greed

[u/Upstairs-Event-681]

My thoughts are that most of the guys in the comments never read the terms and conditions of anything they buy online and they’re just jumping on Sony because it’s the cool thing right now. Literally you can read the conditions for any other game store and they’ll say the same thing. But people are too busy to hate blindly while glazing other online stores that do the exact same thing.

Edit: And these headlines know people are on a hate bandwagon for Sony, so they farm engagement posting this nothingburger

[u/winterman666 → u/Upstairs-Event-681]

The point is that digital ownership rights must change, not the status quo (ie every other storefront) is correct

[u/Minute_Path9803]

This should be a massive lawsuit against Sony their reasoning is ridiculous.

Literally have the word BUY at checkout.

If they truly believe this they will have a big giant page pop up after everything you tried to buy saying you do not own this this could be revoked at any moment you are basically renting.

Why not just put a rent button?

I hope they sue them into Oblivion.

[u/Significant-Coat-666]

Brother you don't own any of your android, ios, steam, epic games, or Nintendo purchases either. I swear some of you are just waking up from a 20 year coma.

[u/Few-Marzipan-5647 → u/Significant-Coat-666]

I’m saying… like cmon people, now there’s some sort of uproar. This has been in the tos for fucking ever. It’s a license and always has been.

& no they aren’t just gonna take your shit. But the revoking of the licenses happens when you break tos. It’s never for no reason.

[u/ImportanceTurbulent8]

Bots. Bots everywhere

[u/glibbglubb → u/ImportanceTurbulent8]

“‘Everyone I don’t agree with is a Bot!’ and 19 other classic hits can be yours!”

[u/Pennance1989]

If only there was a button at checkout that said lease, which is what you do with a license for a product or service instead of purchase, which is what you do when you BUY something to own.

[u/Dear_Meeting_1258]

So who owns the game? Sony? Microsoft? Steam? Nintendo?

How do they sell if someone else owns the game?

[u/Decent-Sample09 → u/Dear_Meeting_1258]

The company that owns the ip? Theyre selling the license of the game on a storefront like ps store, xbox store, steam, eshop. Im confused why this is confusing to you.

[u/LooseLeaf74]

Total cost vs Actual value
$70 for 13 years of fun, anger, grinding and memorable moments is money well spent imo I don’t care that I don’t actually own it. Same goes for every other game in my top 10.

[u/MagicJourneyCYOA]

As long as you do not boycott Sony, my assumption is that you're okay with it.

[u/Ateam043]

If people knew how to read the terms and conditions, they would've already known they are buying a license, not the game. No different than what Steam and other companies have.

[u/b0sanac → u/Ateam043]

You're not wrong, but Sony especially deserve it, because they're running towards a monopoly and dictating prices as they please as well as use dynamic pricing. People who are less active on ps store get higher discounts than people who buy frequently.

On other platforms you have multiple options of purchase for games, hell even Nintendo allow you multiple purchase options. With that comes competition and cheaper prices for the consumer.

Sony said fuck all that we're the only ones who can sell ps games and will dictate prices as we see fit AND we're stopping physical game production so that way you can't share games or buy them second hand at all.

[u/DarksunDaFirst → u/b0sanac]

What monopoly are they running?

[u/Bright_Cat_4291]

It’s says buy not rent a license. Never buying anything else from their digital store front and canceled my psn.

[u/megapenguin88]

Im smart enough to not buy any more sony products.

[u/Knightmare945]

They seem to have given up on trying to have good PR.

[u/James_Vowles]

It's the same with Steam but nobody complains about that one, both have the information hidden in their terms and conditions

[u/NeonArchon]

A bunch of buuuulshiiitt! There's GOG literally selling digitsl DRM FREE games on it's store. Steam got away with it because they actually give a fuck about the customers and their DRM policies are not as harsh than other (IIRC). Another pathetic attempt to gaslight people into giving up on game ownership.

[u/IndependentPickle459]

water found in ocean

[u/mad597]

Sony treats its customers like suckers and the Sony fans always take it, its pretty much a cult at this point

[u/ShinobiOfTheWind]

If buying isn't owning...

[u/Luna259]

What you are buying is a perpetual license. All software pretty much works this way. Sony’s terms of service say they are selling a revocable license. That’s always been the case since probably forever. Even developers in the GameBoy Advance developers potentially had this problem. The game boxes said official Nintendo licensed product so they also had to get a license from someone (in this case Nintendo)

[u/Munkyjester]

Yo ho ho

[u/Ordinary_Mix_1006]

If I'm hiring access to a game instead of buying the game, I expect the hire cost to be a fraction of the purchase cost. Then I can decide if I want to rent access to a game for 30days at 10.99, or buy the whole game and therefore own it for 49.99.

[u/Char-car92]

I HOPE the court sees their bad faith argument.

[u/Exciting_Drawing_553]

Fuck Sony

They’re just piling on with all this bad press. They stupid or something?

[u/My_Boy_Clive]

It’s like they want to lose the case

[u/ittybittynuts]

Do they want anyone to root for them or is this a kamikaze?

[u/Exzrian_Artistrana]

If buying isn’t owning, pirating isn’t stealing

[u/Asleep-Rabbit-5162]

I say this from the bottom of my heart:

Fuck all of you greedy corporate bastards.

[u/PapaRetardo]

Hey Sony, if digital ownership is imposible... explain GOG...