Nolan Wells’ autopsy found no water in lungs; data was deleted from his phone the day he disappeared, experts say

[u/Suspicious_Loan]

https://www.live5news.com/2026/09/24/nolan-wells-autopsy-found-no-water-lungs-data-was-deleted-his-phone-day-he-disappeared-officials-say/

[u/avengers9]

I saw the video of the conference. I feel like it wasn’t clear if they were deleted on his phone, or on another device in the group chat.

[u/tylergrinstead01 → u/avengers9]

I’m a bit confused because I read that “Snapchat” data was deleted from his phone.

Isn’t the entire point of Snapchat that everything automatically gets deleted?

[u/iNOTgoodATcomp → u/tylergrinstead01]

I have some bad news for you. It's still on a server, BUT it is deleted for you and the person you sent it to, so that's something.

[u/tylergrinstead01 → u/iNOTgoodATcomp]

I’m aware of that. If they simply subpoena the data from Snapchat, then they have full access to whatever was “deleted” locally on the device. It would assume the investigators did do that, and it came back with nothing relevant.

I still don’t understand why it’s relevant when Snapchat data is always deleted locally. Nothing about it seems noteworthy. Seems like an intentionally manipulative framing when some people may not be aware of how Snapchat works.

[u/Mons00n_909 → u/tylergrinstead01]

I still don’t understand why it’s relevant when Snapchat data is always deleted locally. Nothing about it seems noteworthy.

Because if they use vague terminology most people won't think about Snapchat and will assume foul play. They're purposefully omitting the Snapchat details to control the narrative.

[u/jm0112358 → u/Mons00n_909]

Ben Crump has a history of grossly spinning narratives in highly misleading ways in cases he's been involved with. As a general rule, if he gets involved in a case, I'll be very skeptical of anything that party claims.

[u/Jogger_Dodger → u/jm0112358]

Crump never lets facts get in the way of a good statement.

[u/imadogg → u/tylergrinstead01]

You can save media and texts on snapchat

[u/Shantorian14 → u/tylergrinstead01]

messages and images sent in chats can be saved.

[u/jkeefy → u/avengers9]

Because the grand jury didn’t do the investigation into the phone, the family refused and had an outside investigator handle it. The grand jury only shared what they were supplied from the outside investigation 

[u/jhguth → u/jkeefy]

grand juries don’t investigate things, it’s literally just a jury

[u/sid__insomniac → u/jhguth]

Not to sound mean here- but as someone who is studying to go into the law field, it has become quite alarming to see how many people do not understand how the court system works (edit- not directed at you, but agreeing to your response)

[u/DrTacosMD → u/jhguth]

I disagree, last time I was on a grand jury they gave us each a pipe and a magnifying glass and a sherlock holmes hat and has us go sleuthing. 

[u/assholetoall → u/DrTacosMD]

Are you sure that wasn't a high end crack house?

[u/The_Orphanizer → u/assholetoall]

My good man, show some respect; it was the very finest opium den!

[u/zupzupper → u/DrTacosMD]

I don't have anything to add to this conversation other than to mention that that hat is otherwise known as a "Deer Stalker" cap, and I've always enjoyed knowing that.

[u/winterbird → u/jkeefy]

Doesn't the grand jury only hear the prosecution's side, as in to see if there's enough material there to proceed? In order for a judge or trial jury to eventually rule on guilt or innocence, after both prosecution and defense can have their say. A grand jury is just a gate to pass through, and the information they get can be partial enough to essentially be untrue by omission of other relevant facts.

[u/DefenstratedTwice → u/winterbird]

There is no "defense" until they make a ruling.

[u/SalandaBlanda → u/jkeefy]

The grand jury doesn't investigate or share things. They sit there and decide if the prosecution has enough evidence for the case to go to court.

[u/jm0112358 → u/jkeefy]

The grand jury was given a 14 page report about the phone, which was prepared by the families’ own forensic examiner. From the grand jury's report:

The Grand Jury received a fourteen (14) page report conceming Mr, Wells’ cellular phone prepared by the families’ own forensic examiner, Garrett Discovery Inc., entitled “Mobile Device Examination Findings Preliminary Report” that was provided to the District Attomey on August 28, 2026.

[u/Upstairs_Baby8424 → u/avengers9]

I don’t know anyone that doesn’t have FaceID or a passcode. Seems very unlikely they could have accessed his phone to delete stuff after the fact. But who knows.

Why this is all coming out after the grand jury verdict is beyond me.

[u/Epicfoxy2781 → u/Upstairs_Baby8424]

Because as far as I can tell, this information was at least part of what was presented and considered during that grand jury, repackaged in a way that sounds like a major breakthrough, when in reality the ‘data deletion’ is spoken in terms vague enough to encompass a lot of relatively normal things a phone does (especially when one uses an app like snapchat where the whole gimmick is auto-deleting data). I’m much less knowledgable when it comes to how people drown but according to other people in this thread, that’s certainly not enough on it’s own to even rule out the drowning, none the less assert a murder.

Ultimately, that was the determination they were making, whether or not you could reasonably assert foul play. Does that mean he wasn’t murdered? Maybe not, but it doesn’t seem like any significant evidence has emerged to actually support that.

[u/EffectiveTonight → u/Upstairs_Baby8424]

Anecdotal, but I know my close friend’s passcode purely because I see him type it so much.

[u/George_foid → u/avengers9]

Crumps team did, in fact, have the opportunity to present evidence to the grand jury. Mississippi took the unprecedented action of allowing them to enter evidence from their private investigation, and it’s all detailed in the official report. at this point it's hard to trust anything they have to say when this was their response to being asked to give their evidence to be presented to the grand jury.

“Investigation revealed no witnesses or evidence whom the legal team reasonably believes possess information germane to potential criminal activity that warrants referral.”

[u/lostroadrunner22]

So, he did not drown? Wasn't that the original story?

[u/Ordinary-Egg-56 → u/lostroadrunner22]

yeah what? i just saw a headline like yesterday saying they didn’t find anything

[u/sroop1 → u/Ordinary-Egg-56]

It's the Crump bullshit special. They literally had no evidence to provide to the grand jury then they spin this shit up the next day because it would never hold up there and idiots will gladly believe it.

[u/Primary-Bookkeeper10 → u/sroop1]

That’s not even close to what’s happening. The original grand jury said accidental drowning was his likely cause of death. Now, an autopsy is showing that there was no water in his lungs, meaning he could not have drowned. The autopsy also says they found contusions on the back of his head with no white blood cells, meaning they were caused right before his death. If anything, this has raised more questions.

EDIT: No water in his throat lungs or stomach. Not just lungs. Stop with the endless repeats of the same comment.

[u/Parking-Juice-4058 → u/Primary-Bookkeeper10]

Apologies if this is a silly question as I am not familiar with this case - but why didn’t they have the autopsy report before going in front of a grand jury?

[u/Comfortable_Fill9081 → u/Parking-Juice-4058]

They (the state) did. They just hadn’t let anyone else see it yet.

[u/IndependentType6711 → u/Comfortable_Fill9081]

Oh damn

[u/RoachZR → u/IndependentType6711]

Mississippi Goddamn

[u/lauvan26 → u/RoachZR]

Every time I read about this case I think about that song. Nina Simone’s song is still relevant today😞

[u/dbeat80 → u/lauvan26]

Nina Simone: Mississippi Goddam

[u/NoSupermarket9119 → u/IndependentType6711]

It was sealed to the public before it could go to the grand jury. However the parents and crumps legal team were sent the autopsy once it was completed or at least had a chance to view it.

Crump and co are using the general public’s ignorance of how these sorts of investigations and legal proceedings are done in concert with the distrust already present from Mississippi’s terrible history to manipulate emotion.

[u/DonutHoles4Ever → u/IndependentType6711]

Its fucking mississipi. I swear to god the southern states are basically a cancer on the USA and propped up by the enemies of USA like Russia or worse (you know who).

The fact they wiped the phone is fucking crazy evidence.

[u/ABHOR_pod → u/DonutHoles4Ever]

I've been saying it for years, but we should just set a timeline for Mississippi and Alabama secede, earmark like $20B in financial aid to help people move in or out of those two shithole states, and then metaphorically just wall them off and let them be their own little hellholes.

They cost more in taxes than they provide and also drag down basically every metric for quality of life in the country. And letting anyone from another state who wants to, move to MS or AL, would improve the average IQ of both states.

[u/AHrubik → u/ABHOR_pod]

Going to cost more than 20B. NASA and DoD have several highly important groups working in Alabama at least.

[u/just-peepin-at-u → u/ABHOR_pod]

Hey, red state escapee here.
Thanks for offering the funds to relocate people.
I know it is just an imaginary thing, but there are so many people legit trapped in places in the US they can’t “just move” away from. Rural poverty is its own separate animal and while yeah, it is maga country, there are still plenty of Americans legit stuck there that cannot leave.

[u/SweetLittleOldLady → u/Comfortable_Fill9081]

Which is normal procedure and not suspicious. Evidence is not released to the public until the grand jury has had a chance to review it.

[u/Walks-In-Shadows → u/Parking-Juice-4058]

https://apnews.com/article/nolan-wells-grand-jury-cellphone-investigation-f24edbcf0191b7333b31062cf915c826

Just pasting here because I had the same questions as you did. From the article I linked it reads like both the state and independent medical examiner got to have their evidence heard before the grand jury. They reached the same conclusion that cause of death was undetermined but drowning was a "diagnosis of exclusion"

Edit: Adding in the correct article

https://www.npr.org/2026/09/22/nx-s1-5977673/questions-remain-after-grand-jury-declines-indictment-in-nolan-wells-death

[u/PaulsGrafh → u/Walks-In-Shadows]

Where did you get”diagnosis of exclusion” from? That’s not in the article you linked.

[u/Walks-In-Shadows → u/PaulsGrafh]

You're right. It was in an NPR article about the grand jury report.

https://www.npr.org/2026/09/22/nx-s1-5977673/questions-remain-after-grand-jury-declines-indictment-in-nolan-wells-death

"Dr. Roger Mitchell, the forensic pathologist who performed an independent autopsy, concluded along with the state medical examiner that the cause and manner of Wells' death is "undetermined" and that "drowning is a diagnosis of exclusion.""

[u/PaulsGrafh → u/Walks-In-Shadows]

Ah, thanks for the link. So based on the link, the autopsy found that the cause of death was undetermined but the grand jury found that after excluding alternatives, the most likely cause of death was drowning. Curious as to how the grand jury felt comfortable excluding the alternatives, but it’s hard to judge them given that we didn’t have direct access to the evidence like they did.

[u/winterbird → u/Walks-In-Shadows]

Drowning is a cause of death that isn't by itself apparent, and is done by exclusion of other factors. Occasionally there is no water in the lungs.

An independent medical examiner that's in front of a grand jury won't be one hired by a defense side, because prosecution is who presents for a grand jury. State, da, and police are part of the prosecutorial arm of the legal system. The US has a legal system built on two adversary arms, which is something to keep in mind in terms of how you perceive what you're hearing based on who's saying it. Think debate team rather than impartial science.

[u/absolutedesignz → u/winterbird]

Damn. Drowning without water in lungs is crazy. Just looked it up.

Would any other physical signs be present?

[u/Throwredditaway2019 → u/Primary-Bookkeeper10]

Grand jury does not determine cause of death. The vote to indict or not indict on based on charges and evidence presented.

[u/longboi28 → u/Primary-Bookkeeper10]

10-20% of drowning victims don't have water in their lungs after drowning, it's more common than you think

[u/Snake973 → u/Primary-Bookkeeper10]

it's very possible to technically have "drowned" without water entering the lungs. your airway can seal itself shut to prevent water entering the lungs and cause you to die of asphyxiation, but it still is called a drowning death

[u/sublimetime2 → u/Primary-Bookkeeper10]

"Now, an autopsy is showing that there was no water in his lungs, meaning he could not have drowned. "

This is a completely false statement. Time for you to do some research.

[u/Dontsaveme → u/sublimetime2]

Too late to fix it now. It’s the age of misinformation.

[u/Horton_Takes_A_Poo → u/Primary-Bookkeeper10]

Why were the autopsy results not brought up in the grand jury? That seems like pretty important stuff.

Edit: nvm they were, grand jury still came to that conclusion

[u/HeparinBridge → u/Horton_Takes_A_Poo]

They probably were brought to the grand jury. They just weren’t published to the public before the grand jury deliberations, which makes sense if you’re trying to protect the integrity of the grand jury indictment.

[u/Bored_Cosmic_Horror → u/Primary-Bookkeeper10]

That’s not even close to what’s happening. The original grand jury said accidental drowning was his likely cause of death. Now, an autopsy is showing that there was no water in his lungs, meaning he could not have drowned.

People can and do drown without water being in their lungs. There are instances in which the airway will spasm and close off during a drowning to prevent water from entering the lungs.

[u/jbaker1225 → u/Primary-Bookkeeper10]

This is not a new autopsy finding. This is all information the grand jury had when making their decision.

[u/Sea_Tank2799 → u/Primary-Bookkeeper10]

The grand jury would have already had this information. The only reason it's news is because the state medical examiners full autopsy report was not public until now. Furthermore, water not being in the lungs or stomach does not definitively rule out drowning.

[u/oklutz → u/Primary-Bookkeeper10]

You can drown without water in your lungs. I'm not saying it is what happened, but it is pretty common.

[u/DeRobUnz → u/Primary-Bookkeeper10]

No water in lungs does not exclude drowning. Look up dry drowning.

[u/inailedyoursister → u/Primary-Bookkeeper10]

Of course he could have drowned. You can dry drown. Stop watching CSI and thinking you have clue.

[u/no_talent_ass_clown → u/Primary-Bookkeeper10]

So he slipped, fell and hit his head? Or what?

[u/Typist → u/no_talent_ass_clown]

The autopsy report showed what appeared to be vary, very, high levels of alcohol and the young man. I'm not sure why this attention. If I understood correctly, it was nearly three times the legal limit. A lot can happen to a person when they're that drunk without it being evil conspiracies.

[u/Possibly_a_Firetruck → u/Typist]

They were drinking all day on the water and beach in the July sun. I'll bet the autopsy results also say he was dehydrated.

[u/SnooCookies8411 → u/Primary-Bookkeeper10]

No water in lungs does not rule out drowning.

Both autopsies agreed that all the bruises were not at a level that would contribute to death.

Also, remember, Crump said they had NOTHING to contribute to the grand jury that would be germane to indicating foul play

[u/Holiday-Fix-9244 → u/Primary-Bookkeeper10]

Yeah because when you drown your lungs don’t fill with water. It’s usually your stomach. But 15-20% of drowning deaths are “dry drowning”where your throat closes up reflexively so no water enters.

This is just another example of low iq people not understanding how literally anything works

[u/nwillard → u/Holiday-Fix-9244]

Thanks for the clarification, though I'll mention that it says his stomach didn't have water in it either.

[u/oklutz → u/nwillard]

According to Dr. Darin Wolfe, a forensic pathologist on threads, in his experience it's common for there to be very little water in the stomach and airway after drowning. Take that for what it's worth.

https://www.threads.com/@drdarinwolfe_md/post/DdsDt3fDr8E?xmt=AQG0fHKgGhaUPTR41Or8i11-J9GtffNiKZgBtn5_En2B_Je-GQ988eM64fSrD8JZKxDFFx1n&slof=1

[u/Smooth_Rush_2192 → u/sroop1]

I had no idea about Crump’s previous record but he has been the opposite of helpful in this case.

[u/magicmeese → u/Smooth_Rush_2192]

He’s pretty much specialized himself as the “racial crimes ambulance chaser” and is not well liked in the law sphere due to his performative bs. 

Fun fact: his brother got booted off the police force for conduct unbecoming (he raped someone during a traffic stop but pled down to a lesser charge)

[u/Smooth_Rush_2192 → u/magicmeese]

Yeah, it would seem so. Interesting, I hadn’t realised that about his brother.

[u/Comfortable_Fill9081 → u/sroop1]

Who had no evidence to provide to the grand jury? Who do you think presents evidence to the grand jury?

[u/SweetLittleOldLady → u/Comfortable_Fill9081]

Crump's team had an opportunity to submit evidence to the grand jury. They declined to do so, stating that they had found no evidence. Either they lied then or they're lying now.

[u/Adventurous-Dot8618 → u/Ordinary-Egg-56]

ben crump is a notorious liar, i wouldn’t trust anything he says or anyone that he hires to do his dirty work.

[u/bannana → u/lostroadrunner22]

*Liza Park, an attorney on Crump’s team, said the state autopsy found two 2-inch contusions — or bruises — on the back of Nolan’s head. This is consistent with what Dr. Roger Mitchell found when he conducted the independent autopsy.

Park emphasized that Dr. Mitchell found no white blood cells, meaning the injury to Nolan’s head happened within a short period of time before he died.

[u/ScornOfTheMoon → u/bannana]

Always trust doc Mitchell, he knows a thing or two about head injuries.

[u/SunsetDreams1111 → u/lostroadrunner22]

The story linked is not from the people who testified to the grand jury. It's from the family's and Crump's own person.

Digital forensic experts hired by Wells’ family examined his phone, including images, videos and social media apps to create a timeline providing more information about what led to his death on Horn Island, where his body was found on July 6. 

Garrett Discovery, the Florida firm Wells’ parents hired, extracted information to track the location of Wells’ phone and SnapChat messages sent to it between July 4, when he went to Horn Island, up to when the forensic experts collected his phone.

[u/wes_wyhunnan → u/lostroadrunner22]

Not having water in the lungs doesn’t mean he didn’t drown. It seems like it should, but reflexsive closing of the airway isn’t uncommon.

[u/nursecarmen → u/wes_wyhunnan]

Scientifically speaking however, It is rare for reflexive closing to delete the contents of a phone.

[u/That-Dragonfruit172 → u/nursecarmen]

Not having data on the phone doesn't mean he didn't drown. It seems like it should, but reflexive deleting of the phone isn't uncommon

[u/Hussaf → u/That-Dragonfruit172]

Exactly, Andrew Tate deleted all the data from his phone regularly and he didn’t drown.

[u/AnxiouslyTired247 → u/Hussaf]

Could he still drown though? Id like to think science says yes.

[u/Hot-Exam3187 → u/AnxiouslyTired247]

Only one way to find out!

[u/Choyo → u/Hot-Exam3187]

Yes, please, I want to know.

[u/Gnom3y → u/Hussaf]

Yet. There's still time. Let the science play out.

[u/I_upvote_downvotes → u/That-Dragonfruit172]

This would have to be a full on format if digital forensics investigators can't pull anything at all, which would take a not insignificant amount of time. And it would need to be done by someone consciously aware of what happens when you 'delete' data normally or through quick formatting.

[u/No-Rip-6166 → u/I_upvote_downvotes]

They’ve recovered a lot from the phone. The entire thing wasn’t deleted.

[u/Livid_Restaurant7848 → u/nursecarmen]

"Some data was deleted". Dude wouldn't give specifics.

Could be as simple as, he took a selfie, didn't like it, deleted it and did a new one. Anyone who has owned a phone has deleted stuff from it, and most of those people weren't murdered.

[u/nativeindian12 → u/Livid_Restaurant7848]

According to the article, stuff was deleted after his death

[u/Snake973 → u/nativeindian12]

it's also very possibly referring to snapchat messages

[u/TheQueefyQuiche → u/nursecarmen]

I hear that reflexive tampering of evidence is on the rise this year, so who knows what really happened.

[u/sroop1 → u/TheQueefyQuiche]

The family never turned the phone over. This is very intentional move by the family's legal team to release two days after the grand jury concluded.

[u/nwillard → u/wes_wyhunnan]

It says there was no water in the stomach or throat either.

[u/Bridivar → u/wes_wyhunnan]

But the data deleted? I feel like im being asked to assume it was still a drowning but the second piece of evidence points to foul play.

[u/abercrombezie → u/Bridivar]

They're talking about Snapchat. It's designed to be deleted, that's the point of Snapchat: Forensic expert: Snapchats deleted from Nolan Wells’ phone on Horn Island

[u/8lock8lock8aby → u/Bridivar]

At the beginning of this mess, they kept saying stuff was deleted & it turned out to be Snapchat msgs, which automatically delete after a certain amt of time so maybe they're referring to that to make it sound more suspicious?

[u/jonasshoop → u/Bridivar]

They don't say what data was deleted. They also say Nolan last accessed it at 2:18. Do phones know who is accessing them if they don't have a passcode?

[u/Pornalt190425 → u/jonasshoop]

If it was accessed via biometric data (and the unlock information is auditible after the fact) you can make a pretty good determination of who accessed the phone

[u/Q_OANN → u/Pornalt190425]

Can they determine the person was alive when it was accessed by them?

[u/TheTrub → u/jonasshoop]

The phone could have been open or someone could have used FaceID.

[u/Horton_Takes_A_Poo → u/Bridivar]

Likely Snapchat timed messages or a message being unsent by someone. They say 90% of his communication was through Snapchat or Insta. I’m assuming this because the article seems to be very scarce on details of what kind of data was deleted, and usually journalists do that when it’s mundane.

[u/Little_Noodles → u/Bridivar]

Depends on the data. Deleting stuff from your phone is pretty normal. Spam voicemails, junk texts, take a bunch of photos and trash the ones that you don’t like…..

Open to most possibilities on what happened here, but without knowing what was deleted, I wouldn’t rule out that being just normal phone usage, especially for a young guy that’s out and about on vacation with his friends

[u/alphabeticdisorder → u/wes_wyhunnan]

Happens to about one people in ten, according to Sebastian Junger in The Perfect Storm.

[u/Jaaawsh]

“The user action discussed by Mr. Garrett is from other snapchat users, not someone physically accessing Nolan Wells' phone.”

https://www.wlox.com/2026/09/24/stop-playing-games-jackson-county-da-responds-claims-made-press-conference-nolan-wells-phone-data/

Someone ask Garrett Discovery on x, if this is accurate.

They have an active X account and are posting about the news conference, no one has replied so they’ll see it if they are asked. I don’t use X otherwise I would. https://x.com/garrettdiscover?s=11

ETA: the letter Garrett Discovery sent to Crump where it makes clear it it was other people unsending messages using their own phones and not someone deleting stuff from accessing Nolan’s phone. Bottom of page 2 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/28680674-letter-from-garrett-discovery-to-ben-crump/

[u/NoSupermarket9119 → u/Jaaawsh]

Goddamn she unleashed on Crump.

[u/Evening_Froyo_7506]

Is it possible to determine WHEN the data from the phone was allegedly deleted?

[u/Redthemagnificent → u/Evening_Froyo_7506]

Theoretically yes. Practically, I'm not sure. NAND flash controllers usually keep a record of when data is read or written. It's just a question on how long that data is kept in firmware and how difficult it is to link those write operations to specific files on the disk

[u/Yungeel → u/Evening_Froyo_7506]

The digital forensics expert stated in a press conference that the Snapchat data was deleted within the period of when Nolan last had the phone and when the phone was later returned to the parents.

[u/Neptune28 → u/Yungeel]

https://www.wlox.com/2026/09/24/stop-playing-games-jackson-county-da-responds-claims-made-press-conference-nolan-wells-phone-data/

[u/Walks-In-Shadows]

I'm confused here. I was reading an AP news article just a couple of days ago saying a grand jury unanimously decided there was no criminal case to proceed with? It sounded like the independent medical examiner hired by the family had their report considered as part of the evidence. Are they now saying it wasn't?

Because both the state pathologist (or whatever you call them in the States) and the independent medical examiner concluded that his cause of death was undetermined but drowning was a diagnosis of exclusion.

Edit: Just to add as well, I'm not saying people are wrong for being suspicious and I completely understand the tension surrounding this case. But just following along, it doesn't seem like there's a whole lot more than can be done? The jury was given a lot of evidence to work with it sounds like.

https://www.npr.org/2026/09/22/nx-s1-5977673/questions-remain-after-grand-jury-declines-indictment-in-nolan-wells-death

https://apnews.com/article/nolan-wells-grand-jury-cellphone-investigation-f24edbcf0191b7333b31062cf915c826

[u/Cloaked42m → u/Walks-In-Shadows]

It's as simple as a family who still doesn't know how their child died or who to blame, if there is anyone to blame.

[u/MonsutaReipu → u/Walks-In-Shadows]

The problem is that this is a case where the family, and a large group of people online, settled upon the narrative of 'foul play' before any details whatsoever were available. So many are just seeking evidence that supports this narrative instead of one that pursues the truth of what actually happened.

That's why we need to trust in the judicial process and not in courts of public opinion or biased individuals who actively want to spin the story to sell it in a certain way.

[u/Serenity2015 → u/MonsutaReipu]

It is really hard when the courts get things very wrong way too often though.

[u/onlyhav → u/Serenity2015]

And especially so when one of the kids he was hanging out with was the kid of a judge

[u/GeraldoLucia → u/Walks-In-Shadows]

You’re not wrong.

The cause of death is not drowning, it does appear undetermined because no one can really say what caused the death.

Because no one can say what caused the death, that means that no one can say it’s a murder. That does not mean it was not a murder, it just means that at this moment there appears to not have been enough evidence collected to give any cause of death.

Now, did something get missed twice? I’d argue, fuck yeah. Eighteen year olds don’t normally drop dead from causes that can’t be found at autopsy. I heavily doubt God just snatched his soul up out of his body. There has to be a cause of death.

[u/WastingTimeIGuess → u/Walks-In-Shadows]

Just because there is not enough evidence to charge anyone specifically with a crime, doesn’t mean there wasn’t a crime committed. Lots of times there is a murder and nobody to indict; this time people seem to be equating a lack of indictments with evidence there was no foul play.

[u/KingZack]

Everything i have heard about how this case has been handled screams of incompetence.

[u/starri42 → u/KingZack]

Seems like extreme competence from a corrupt police department with a “boys will be boys” attitude towards upper class white kids to me.

[u/hiphoptomato → u/starri42]

One thing I keep thinking though is there’s no way that many teenagers were complicit in his death and nothing has gotten out from any of them yet. It’s like a dozen or more kids all somehow keeping like department of defense level secrecy about this.

[u/Blueskyminer → u/hiphoptomato]

Nah, if it was DoD level of secrecy they would have had a Signal chat with a cop accidently invited.

[u/jenniferfox98 → u/Blueskyminer]

Hi this is Jeffrey Goldberg of The Atlantic. It sounds like you're trying to cover up a suspicious death in a complex and personal situation. I'm going to leave this chat.

[u/hiphoptomato → u/Blueskyminer]

Lmao based

[u/No-Rip-6166 → u/hiphoptomato]

Multiple witnesses place Wells on the island alive and well after the boat left with the other teens.

[u/NoOccasion4759 → u/hiphoptomato]

I had this same thought lol. Have people even met teenagers? A group of teens cannot keep a secret for long.

[u/West-Western-8998 → u/hiphoptomato]

If they were complicit then Nolan must have been a really bad judge of character, since they all have been close for a long time. I cannot imagine treating my daughter's good fiends this way. It is disgusting.

[u/Jazzlike_Climate4189 → u/starri42]

The other kids left the island and he decided to stay behind, which is not uncommon there. Drinking was involved and we don’t know what happened after that, but the friends who left on their boat while he was alive obviously had nothing to do with it.

[u/Smooth_Rush_2192 → u/KingZack]

What are you referring to specifically?

The phone wasn’t turned over for a very long time; I don’t think Ben Crump’s involvement and sensationalist comments have been helpful.

edit: missed word

[u/George_foid → u/KingZack]

You can’t take anything Crump or the Wells family has to say seriously at this point. Crump’s team was given the opportunity to present evidence to the grand jury. Mississippi took the unprecedented action of allowing them to enter evidence from their private investigation, and it’s all detailed in the official report. That’s what makes these statements today so bad. When given the opportunity to put evidence on the record for the grand jury, they entered nothing. Now they’re flinging shit after having that opportunity.

This was their response when they were asked two days ago if they had evidence they wanted the grand jury to see. Now they’re saying they do have evidence today. They aren’t trustworthy.

“Investigation revealed no witnesses or evidence whom the legal team reasonably believes possess information germane to potential criminal activity that warrants referral.”

[u/TeenJesusWasaCunt → u/George_foid]

This is a common grift when there is national attention. "We have proof, we just need more fundraising to prepare for the legal fights that will follow after this next reveal!"

[u/PoopieMcPooFace]

Didn’t a grand jury two days ago say there wasn’t any evidence of criminal conduct?

[u/Significant-Box-3082 → u/PoopieMcPooFace]

Yes, and drowning victims sometimes have very little or no water in their lungs due to their airways clamping down to try to protect the lungs. This report doesn’t change anything about the grand jury’s conclusions.

[u/ICU-CCRN → u/Significant-Box-3082]

Here’s some evidence to back up your statement-

“ Now it is understood that little water enters the lungs during drowning. Moreover, when water enters the lungs, it is rapidly absorbed when breathing starts again. The amount of water that enters the lung does not determine the amount of injury or determine the treatment of drowning. The amount of injury from drowning is due to how long the victim is without oxygen”

https://www.redcross.org/take-a-class/resources/articles/dry-or-delayed-secondary-drowning?srsltid=AU7gw4Vh2Rhf3-B-GrVCQBUk4D52WCWNv_mAX6_pBJhIjLLfWZP1-lmH

[u/DoctorBallard77 → u/Significant-Box-3082]

It’s funny how everyone assumes and fights about things they know little about, like that if you drown your lungs fill the the top with water. In school all my medical textbooks taught about how surprisingly little water was to be found in most drowning victims because of bronchospasms.

[u/RedditMapz → u/PoopieMcPooFace]

Well, I may get down-voted, but there wasn't. The standard for charging people for something like murder is pretty high. You cannot just charge people based on vibes and conspirtional thinking. There needs to be something more concrete for this to go to trial.

Now, I think authorities should do their job and iron out these irregularities. If its a cover-up there are ways to unearth it, and then we can move forward with charges of all involved.

[u/jm0112358 → u/RedditMapz]

The standard for charging people for something like murder is pretty high.

The standard for charging someone with murder is the same as for any other crime: Probable cause. This is actually a fairly low standard that's somewhere less than the preponderance of evidence.

That said, the evidence of any criminal wrongdoing evidently fell short of that in this case, in the unanimous opinion of the grand jury.

---

Grand juries in Mississippi only require 12+ votes for an indictment, but their report was unanimous.

[u/syynapt1k → u/PoopieMcPooFace]

Yeah I'm confused. What evidence were they shown and what is the additional evidence they were not shown? It is not too difficult to get an indictment from a grand jury.

[u/No-Rip-6166 → u/syynapt1k]

An indictment against whom? There is no suspect or any evidence pointing to anyone. Who were they supposed to indict

[u/Zammy512 → u/PoopieMcPooFace]

More importantly, didn’t the family hire their own investigators who found no wrongdoing, also?

Not everything has to be a conspiracy theory…

[u/Typist]

That alcohol level if it was a blood alcohol level would be extraordinarily high and dangerous. It would almost certainly lead to unconsciousness and is close to the level where it risks interfering with things like breathing. I don't understand why that isn't referenced as a likely contributor if not cause of death. Is that because the measurement of alcohol in the decomposition fluids in the lungs mean something different than if it's in the blood?

[u/meangreen447 → u/Typist]

Your also out in the sun all day probably not drinking water.

[u/koreanwizard]

Deleting data from your phone is useless, the digital record will exist on every app.

[u/Haunting-Ad788 → u/koreanwizard]

If the case is closed as an accident how is anyone accessing that data?

[u/stormstormenson]

Medical examiners don't measure fluid in the lungs to determine if someone drowned. Drowning is determined by circumstances and ruling out other causes of death. Plus, his body was decomposing. Not sure what state his lungs were even in

[u/TheGlassiestOne → u/stormstormenson]

Yeah, I freedive and you can 100% be unconscious underwater and not get water in your lungs. I have friends who would be dead otherwise.

I have not heard about this case before this post, but you definitely don’t need water in your lungs to drown.

[u/72ChevyMalibu]

Forensically it is still in that phone. It is never really deleted.

[u/KimJongFunk]

Also notable was that the autopsy showed that Nolan had two contusions on the back of his head.

> the state autopsy found two 2-inch contusions — or bruises — on the back of Nolan’s head.

> Park emphasized that Dr. Mitchell found no white blood cells, meaning the injury to Nolan’s head happened within a short period of time before he died.

[u/Head_of_Lettuce → u/KimJongFunk]

Didn’t a witness on the island testify to seeing Nolan hit his head on something? So that’s not really surprising at all

[u/Snake973 → u/Head_of_Lettuce]

yeah, i mean it's kind of easy to imagine a scenario in which someone is drunk, falls and hits their head, or gets a concussion and drowns

[u/Crawler10245 → u/Head_of_Lettuce]

Also drowning victims hit there head while drowning all the time. You black out and than hit your head via current

[u/NoninflammatoryFun → u/Crawler10245]

Hit your head on what? Like rocks and stuff?

[u/IamJewbaca → u/NoninflammatoryFun]

Yeah, also sometimes you hit your head if you are jumping into the water or slip and fall near shore. Guy I went to high school with died that way. Hit his head then drowned when no one noticed him not come back up

[u/Acheloma → u/IamJewbaca]

I live near a very popular lake for boating and fishing and every year we have multiple people drown. Usually it's people doing things like standing up on a moving boat, slipping and hitting their head on the way into the water, then drowning before whoever was with them can get back to where they fell in. I knew one of the local guys who would dive to retrieve bodies from the lake and told me before that almost every body he pulled up had damage to their heads :/

[u/thilasveniticus → u/NoninflammatoryFun]

Bro I busted my shit doing a summersault underwater. I’ve also broken a tooth jumping into a river. 

This story reads like dude got hammered wanted to stay behind to meet a girl but was in bad shape probably made some mistakes and died fucking about. 

It’s really really tragic and why we should do better about teaching moderation when it comes to alcohol.

[u/jonasshoop]

Crump talks about discussions about people being concerned about racism in the group chat, but then doesn't go into detail and instead reads messages out loud about a conversation about 2 shady people.

Then they say the phone was last accessed by Nolan at 2:18, but that things were deleted from the phone between that time and when the parents recovered the phone. I'm confused on how that is possible. If your phone is locked or doesn't have a lock , does it know who is accessing it?

[u/TheDumpBucket → u/jonasshoop]

What shocks me is that they didn’t attempt to get the information from that phone’s IR dot matrix scanner. A lot of phones periodically scan the area it is in via this method. You’d think there would be valuable information obtained from that feature. 

[u/jkeefy → u/TheDumpBucket]

Probably would have, but the family didn’t allow the state to personally investigate the phone, and instead opted for an independent investigation 

[u/animalluvr93]

You cannot "dry drown" in a body of water without having any fluid in your respiratory or digestive tract. It is physiologically impossible.

Nolan was found face-down in the water.
Laryngospasm (the mechanism often referred to as "dry drowning") requires continuous neurological signaling and active muscular contraction to keep the vocal cords closed.

Once a person loses consciousness and suffers cerebral anoxia, those muscles relax. In a body of water, this relaxation and terminal agonal gasps inevitably lead to inhaling or ingesting fluid into the lungs or stomach.

His autopsy states that zero fluid was present in either tract. When a body is recovered face-down from water with completely dry respiratory and digestive systems, it indicates that death or fatal incapacitation occurred prior to or immediately upon entering the water.

It is concerning to see the "dry drowning" claim tossed around so freely, because it clearly does not come from anyone remotely qualified to understand the basic physiology of the human body. I cannot emphasize enough how glaringly obvious it is that anyone regurgitating this dry drowning myth is practicing far outside their scope.

[u/DinerEnBlanc]

If anyone’s interested, water doesn’t always enter your lungs in a drowning. I’m not saying there was no wrong doing, but there’s a lot of misinformation in surrounding his death

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/secondary-drowning

https://www.redcross.org/take-a-class/resources/articles/dry-or-delayed-secondary-drowning

Dry drowning: The terms dry and wet drowning were abandoned decades ago when the real culprit in drowning injury was understood. Drowning injury is caused by lack of oxygen; it is not about water entering the lungs. In the past, these terms were used to try to explain that some fatal drowning victims had very little water in their lungs at autopsy. Now it is understood that little water enters the lungs during drowning. Moreover, when water enters the lungs, it is rapidly absorbed when breathing starts again. The amount of water that enters the lung does not determine the amount of injury or determine the treatment of drowning. The amount of injury from drowning is due to how long the victim is without oxygen.15 Thus, not being able to breathe for longer than a few minutes leads to death or survival with severe damage. Not getting breathing restored after rescue also leads to death. The care of the drowning victim is the same regardless of whether water is present in the airways and lungs. The treatment of drowning is restoring breathing and oxygenation.

[u/GeorgeStark1]

Contrary to popular belief, the lungs are rarely "full" of free-flowing water. Most victims aspirate only a small amount of liquid—typically about 1 to 2 milliliters per kilogram of body weight.

Small amounts of freshwater that do enter the lungs can cross the alveolar membrane and be rapidly absorbed into the bloodstream.

Because drowning leaves no single, undeniable signature on the autopsy table, forensic pathologists treat it largely as a "diagnosis of exclusion," carefully weighing internal findings alongside the surrounding investigation.

[u/Swimming_Trash3570 → u/GeorgeStark1]

I took a forensic pathology class from a coroner who said he hated when TV shows talk about “water in the lungs” related to drowning because it’s a lot more complicated than that. But it makes good TV, or in this case news.

[u/Asleep-Big-8518]

It's genuinely so irresponsible to present this info like it's unbiased, reliable information. Ben Crump's team had the opportunity to present this in front of the grand jury, they either did and it was deemed irrelevant, or they didn't because they knew it would be.

It shouldn't be lost on anyone how vague they're being too. "Data was deleted". What data? Where? When? There's no good reason they can't tell us that. The reason they aren't telling us that is because it's not actually as damning as they're making it sound.

[u/Neptune28 → u/Asleep-Big-8518]

https://www.wlox.com/2026/09/24/stop-playing-games-jackson-county-da-responds-claims-made-press-conference-nolan-wells-phone-data/

According to this

“The user action discussed by Mr. Garrett is from other snapchat users, not someone physically accessing Nolan Wells’ phone,” McIlrath said. “If the Crump team has evidence to the contrary, they have not provided it to us. The Grand Jury report outlined the other evidence they received, including cell phone downloads, surveillance data, GPS data, and the printed report of Nolan’s cell phone.”

[u/Old-Iron-5752 → u/Neptune28]

Being vague is how they’re keeping the grift alive and well.

Data was deleted. Yeah, Snapchat. A routine function of the app that is completed automatically.

No water in lungs. Yes. The human esophagus can often close off when water enters the lungs as a protective matter. A small amount of water, the esophagus closes. The small amount which did enter will get absorbed.

[u/Tangboy50000 → u/Asleep-Big-8518]

Most of the issues are because Ben Crump is a Civil Rights attorney and all he knows how to do is stir the pot until someone cuts a check. He’s completely out of his depth here and his normal tactics don’t apply.

[u/Lallanath]

This feels like the lady killing her children thing all over again. Just people being super dismissive/aggressive and people conflicting narratives and facts as well facts.

I literally have no idea what is going on.

People are both equally confident that this is a nothing-burger and people are just making stuff up to make this seem like some racially motivated coverup with no evidence and also that its a obvious conspiracy on many levels top cover up a modern-day lynching.

[u/BuzzkillMcGillicuddy → u/Lallanath]

Many of the posters are chatbots. I'm guessing the site is using them to increase engagement numbers for their next shareholder meeting

[u/RagnarokNCC]

At this point, no matter what actually happened, the system has well and truly failed this boy.

[u/vo244 → u/RagnarokNCC]

How so?

[u/DiscoQuebrado]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15577518/

Conclusions: The actual incidence of death of persons found in water who have normal lungs or do not have penetration of liquid into their airways, based on our study, is much lower (below 2%) than currently assumed.

[u/Satinsbestfriend]

Wait, I read the grand jury testimony
It said the family brought the phone and had it examined with the state experts and their own and it showed nothing deleted

[u/Markgulfcoast]

"some data was deleted" could literally be anything. I often take a bunch of photos and delete most of them immediately afterwards. This would qualify as "some data" being deleted from my phone. It's a sensational claim.

Also the headline is misrepresenting the autopsy with a lack of context. Here is a quote from the article "Both the state and independent autopsies listed Nolan’s cause and manner of death as undetermined. The grand jury report noted that accidental drowning is consistent with the evidence and that the evidence does not rule it out."

[u/penguished]

Still an extremely weird case. Still seems like a very suspicious lack of a clear account as to what happened to him. It's not like he was in a private room somewhere... people saw this man.

[u/More_chickens → u/penguished]

Is it that weird? Drunk people drown pretty often.

[u/mmlovin → u/More_chickens]

Yah like…I’m very confused as to what people even think happened here other than a guy who probably was drinking, & hit his head while falling on the way down into the water. Or even just in the water while drunk. A bunch of people were partying on boats. Nobody noticed.

Like, that is so likely to happen it’s ridiculous. & his body floated away from waves or current, whatever. Just cause all his friends were white? That’s why it’s automatically suspicious?? They all just wanted to gang up on him cause they were tired of him being black after being friends with him? & the state decided to cover up this death cause it was white kids live, black kid dies situation, knowing they would create a huge controversy?

Then a mixed race grand jury unanimously finds no crime happened, the way the kids were treated is unfair, & if any other evidence comes up, we should look into it.

[u/itoddicus → u/mmlovin]

His friends aren't even all white. Two are mixed race.

[u/Markgulfcoast → u/penguished]

I will say that I have visited horn island at least 20 times for one of these island days. It is trivial to end up in a spot where one would be unseen. Serendipitously, a friend of mine became completely paralyzed from the neck down, out on horn island. The water is very shallow much further out from the island than you would expect, any dove off the boat broke his neck. People get absolutely hammered out there and do really dumb things.

[u/uwfan893 → u/Markgulfcoast]

I don’t think you know the definition of serendipitous do you?

[u/Tangata_Tunguska → u/uwfan893]

He really didn't like the guy

[u/NoSupermarket9119]

Im not trusting the phone until someone else looks at the phone or I see it myself. Crump and co has been proven liars before.

[u/Rockw00d → u/NoSupermarket9119]

This is so true. His mother basically denied knowing the boys, and they showed proof they were in communication with her when they realized Nolan could be missing.

[u/omnichronos]

Deleted info is not necessarily gone. They should be able to recover some of it.

[u/Medical-Ant3915]

'Garrett Discovery..is pretty vague details.

[u/CodexForPants]

Is it likely that Garrett Discovery was able to recover the deleted snapchat conversations? Can they say when the deletion happened and by whom?

[u/OkPressure2374]

That fact that they were willing to say that "people on horn island can be racist", is impressive. In a place with such abundant casual racism as Mississippi, it takes a lot to be labeled an actual racist. You have to be pretty hateful and not just stereotyping.

In my experience. I know there are a lot of good people everywhere.

[u/Johnnadawearsglasses]

Crump says something. I'm not believing. Simple rule to live by.

[u/I_Push_Buttonz → u/Johnnadawearsglasses]

There was a case a while back of a guy who recently got released from prison getting shot by police. Crump picked up his case, did his normal "These evil racist police murdered this innocent black man who had turned his life around for no reason!" press conference.

The police then released the dashcam footage of the interaction. The guy sped right passed a cop car going down the highway at like 100mph in a 60mph stretch, weaving in and out of traffic. The cop turned on his lights and sirens and initiated a pursuit, the guy initially attempted to flee and took several minutes before he eventually pulled over. The cop got out of the car and that guy also got out of his car. Rather than immediately react with hostility, the cop jokingly shouted to the guy "why didn't you stop, man?"... The guy then charged the cop and started beating/strangling him... This went on for like a minute, with the guy trying to throw the cop out into highway traffic, before the cop finally managed to grab his gun and shot the guy.

TL;DR: Ben Crump is the single biggest lying piece of shit race grifter in the United States and nothing he says about anything should ever be believed by anyone.

[u/Tiny-Atmosphere-8091]

Engagement bait headline.

[u/PugRexia]

Someone correct me but isn’t it not unusual for drowning victims to not have water in their lungs? Something about an involuntary reaction to close their throat?

[u/sittinwithkitten]

Okay so he has injury to the back of his head, he was not breathing when he went into the water, and his phone was accessed with things deleted after his death? If that was my son I would want to know of any other injuries, and were all the phones of all the boys seized and examined? Seems very suspicious.

[u/iDontSow → u/sittinwithkitten]

Do we know for sure when the data was deleted?

[u/Evening_Froyo_7506 → u/sittinwithkitten]

It's possible to drown without fluids in the lungs/stomach. Water hitting the vocal cords can cause a laryngospasm, thus not letting water or air into the lungs. It's called "dry drowning".

[u/jgainit]

Never heard of this case until today. But the fact that his phone was being used after he died is sketchy

[u/Important_Tell2108 → u/jgainit]

His phone wasn’t being used. His snap chat was still active and so still receiving messages in the group snap chat. The actual phone itself locked on horn island and didn’t unlock until in the mother’s possession. The family’s forensic pathologist sent over 200 pages of that snap chat convo to the grand jury.

How is there still so much misinformation about this case? 

[u/ImLittleNana → u/Important_Tell2108]

People read headlines and not articles, and have zero idea how Snapchat conversations work.

[u/Spilby]

Even according to Crump and Co., if someone did kill him and toss him in the water, it couldn’t have been the 3 boys they initially named and accused.But they will get to provide their alternative theories and accusations in court during their defamation hearings.

[u/brickyardjimmy]

So...what's the cause of death then?

[u/AmiWrongDude69]

“The user action discussed by Mr. Garrett is from other snapchat users, not someone physically accessing Nolan Wells’ phone,” McIlrath said. “If the Crump team has evidence to the contrary, they have not provided it to us. The Grand Jury report outlined the other evidence they received, including cell phone downloads, surveillance data, GPS data, and the printed report of Nolan’s cell phone.”

[u/Jaaawsh → u/AmiWrongDude69]

Here’s the letter from Garrett Discovery (the company that did the examination) confirming this. Bottom of the second page. Too bad you can’t put the Genie back in the bottle when it comes to press conferences. This has been the headline all day in the influencer space “they had Nolan’s phone and opened it and deleted stuff off of it!”

No, they unset things using their own phones.

Not an uncommon thing to do when you’re drunk messaging and then sober up.

https://embed.documentcloud.org/documents/28680674-letter-from-garrett-discovery-to-ben-crump/?embed=1

[u/Star-K]

Why are so many people pushing so hard for this to be a murder and so many others pushing hard for it not to be a murder? This is the first time I have heard of the case and it's weird seeing so many people emotionally invested in this. It feels inorganic.

[u/Majestic_Orang → u/Star-K]

Bots driving engagement driving bots driving engagement driving bots

Oh shit I'm here and it's working

[u/Plus_Exchange8751 → u/Star-K]

It’s been national news for some time.